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Grumpig (BW2 Revamp) [GP 0/2]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Lolk, May 28, 2013.

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  1. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    [​IMG]

    [OVERVIEW]

    <p>Stuck in a tier rampant with Psychic-type Pokemon, Grumpig struggles to make an impact on any serious competitive team, as most of the jobs doable with Grumpig are outclassed by its brethren who boast reliable recovery moves and/or workable defenses. However, the additional resistances granted by its Thick Fat ability allow it to patch up holes in teams and the new found access to Heal Bell coupled with Whirlwind in BW2 grant Grumpig a solid niche over its competition as a specially defensive cleric. While this niche is not enough for Grumpig to land on most teams, it does wield the ability to check one of the greatest threats of the NU metagame: Jynx. Resisting both ofits STABs and Focus Blast coverage is a rare treat only Grumpig can claim, and the frustration Jynx causes to most teams could possibly give Grumpig the limelight it has never seen.</p>

    [SET]

    name: Utility Support
    move 1: Heal Bell
    move 2: Psyshock / Psychic
    move 3: Whirlwind
    move 4: Thunder Wave / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    ivs: 0 Atk

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Fitting best on bulky teams with hazards, Grumpig's sole job is to support the team with Heal Bell, phase with Whirlwind, and paralyze or poison as much as possible to aid its team members. Its high base Speed for a wall comes in handy, as it outpaces the majority of walls in the tier. Psyshock is the most practical attack as it breaks Jynx's Substitute, but Psychic can be used instead for the higher Base Power. Whirlwind works well at preventing Pokemon from setting up on Grumpig, as well as racking up entry hazard damage. Grumpig's resistances from Thick Fat and its impressive special bulk provide it with many chances to use Heal Bell, allowing teammates to use the unorthodox recovery move Rest as well as removing fatal status conditions.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs are standard, as they maximize Grumpig's special bulk. But, they can be taken from Special Defense and added to Special Attack to suit the damaging needs. The 0 Attack IVs are to minimalize confusion and Foul Play damage. If stall teams cause problems, Taunt can be used in the last moveslot so opposing Pokemon do not ruin Grumpig's supporting antics. If not, a Taunting teammate is encouraged. Focus Blast can also be used in place of Thunder Wave/Toxic to surprise clerics such as Lickilicky or Audino. Wish support is nice for Grumpig as it cannot safely recover itself. Alomomola is a good partner as it can patch Grumpig's bad Defense, or Lickilicky or Audino can be used as a Special Defense core, as their types compliment each other well. Regirock, Carracosta, and Miltank are some great NU sStealth Rock users to compliment Grumpig's phazing because of their physical bulk that Grumpig lacks. Miltank deserves a special mention as Grumpig can take most Fighting-type attacks headed towards Miltank, and Miltank can take the Ghost-type attacks headed towards Grumpig. Miltank also can take the cleric role, allowing Grumpig to use a different move. Offensive partners that work well with Grumpig are those that can take out the physical Dark-, Bug-, and Ghost-type Pokemon that all threaten Grumpig. Golem is a great example because it can beat the popular Skuntank as well as most Bug-type Pokemon and can Sucker Punch the ever-present Golurk for hefty damage. Grumpig also patches up Golem's terrible Special Defense. Lastly, Rapid Spin blockers like Misdreavus are needed to keep hazards on the field to ensure Grumpig’s phazing has a purpose; just make sure the team covers their shared Dark and Ghost weaknesses.</p>

    [OTHER OPTIONS]

    <p>As mentioned above, most of the jobs Grumpig can do are primarily outclassed by other Psychic-type Pokemon. A Calm Mind set is viable, but Musharna and Gardevoir are better due to the former's defenses and the latter's offenses. Musharna also handles the dual screens role better, as it has access to Moonlight and better bulk. Trick can be used, but Grumpig's Choice Scarf set misses out on the base 95 Speed tier and the Choice Specs set is not strong enough, both of which are still outclassed by Gardevoir. Grumpig can also set up weather, but Prankster Pokemon or set up sweepers are more reliable. Magic Coat is a fun, situational move that surprises notorious status inducers, bit it is not worth it overall. Lastly, it can run a set of Rest / Sleep Talk / Psyshock / Heal Bell for self-recovery, but Grumpig loses its utility as a phazer and as a status inducer.</p>

    [CHECKS AND COUNTERS]

    <p>Most physical attackers can out-speed and crush Grumpig, such as Skuntank, Scolipede, Golurk, Pinsir, and Swellow. Primeape deserves a special mention as a super-effective U-Turn will scare Grumpig out and harshly lose momentum for the team. Nevertheless, all of these Pokemon risk being hit by a Thunder Wave on the switch in or being blown right back out with Whirlwind. Ground-type Pokemon in general are great checks as they can come in on a Thunder Wave and set up or attack. Any Taunt Pokemon typically forces Grumpig out, and Pokemon with Pursuit will be having pork for dinner. Skuntank is a prime example of both of those scenarios. Misdreavus is also a good check as it can Taunt Grumpig or smack it with a super effective Foul Play or Shadow Ball. Lastly, Rapid Spinners ruin Grumpig's phasing antics, and Clerics spoil Grumpig's status shenanigans; for example: Lickilicky can remove its statuses and wear it down with Body Slam.</p>

    Skeleton (open)


    [​IMG]

    [OVERVIEW]

    • Rather situational cleric, fitting best on bulky teams with hazards.
    • Has to compete against other clerics for a spot on a team, but its awesome resistances (thanks to Thick Fat) differentiate it from the bunch.
    • BW2 made Heal Bell+Whirlwind legal giving it a niche over Musharna as a bulky psychic cleric.
    • Great Jynx check, who is a prominent threat in this metagame.
    • Weak physical defenses and no recovery outside of rest.
    • Needs much support to do its job, but it can easily patch some holes in a team’s defenses.

    [SET]

    name: Utility Support
    move 1: Heal Bell
    move 2: Psyshock / Psychic
    move 3: Whirlwind
    move 4: Thunder Wave / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Calm
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    ivs: 0 Att


    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Should only be used on bulky teams with hazards.
    • Thick Fat allows Grumpig to wall certain Pokemon most walls cannot, such as Jynx and Combusken.
    • User will spend most time paralyzing everything in Grumpig’s way, allowing team mates to set up easier and phasers to get a few free phases. Toxic can be used instead if opposing stall teams give trouble or another Pokemon offers paralysis support.
    • Whirlwind ensures no Pokemon can set up on it, and racks up hazard damage, differentiating the pig from the likes of Miltank who has similar resistances thanks to Thick Fat.
    • Psyshock is the most practical attack as it can break Jynx's Substitutes, but Psychic offers slightly more power for most situations.
    • Heal Bell elongates the team survival and allows Pokemon with no other reliable recovery to use rest.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • EVs maximize special bulk, but it is possible to add more SpA EVs to suit the damaging needs.
    • Taunt can be used in place of whirlwind if stall causes problems.
    • 0 IVs in attack for less confusion and Misdreavus' Foul Play damage (Don't stay in on Liepard).
    • Likes Wish support for longevity and hazard support for phasing benefits. Alomomola can take physical attacks aimed toward Grumpig brilliantly, or Lickilicky/Audino can work as their typing compliments Grumpig's well
    • Opposing clerics can ruin all of Grumpig’s paralyzation antics, so teammates with taunt are nice.
    • Roselia and Scolipede are some great NU spikers to compliment Grumpig's phasing.
    • Regirock, Carracosta, and Miltank are some great NU stealth rockers to compliment Grumpig, because of their physical bulk that Grumpig lacks. Miltank deserves a special mention as Grumpig can take some fighting attacks headed towards Miltank, and Miltank can take the ghost attacks headed towards Grumpig. Miltank, also, can take the cleric role, allowing Grumpig to use another move.
    • Spin blockers like Misdreavus are needed to keep hazards on the field ensuring Grumpig’s phasing has a purpose, just make sure the team covers their dark/ghost weaknesses.
    • Offensive partners that work well with Grumpig are those that can take out the physical darks (ex:Skuntank), bugs (ex:Scolipede), and ghosts (ex:Golurk) that all threaten Grumpig out. Golem is a great example because it can beat Skuntank (the current most common dark type in NU) as well as most bugs (must be careful of Scolipede's Aqua Tail) and can Sucker Punch Golurk for around 60% damage. Grumpig patches up Golem's terrible Special Defense as well.

    [OTHER OPTIONS]

    • Can run a Calm Mind set, but is outclassed by Gardevoir and Musharna due to their greater offenses (Gardevoir) and defenses (Musharna).
    • Can run a Trick set, but it misses out on the current Choice Scarf speed tier of base 95 and its special attack with Choice Specs usually isn’t good enough.
    • Can run a Dual Screens set, but Musharna’s better overall bulk and access to Moonlight outclasses Grumpig.
    • Can set up weather, but outclassed by Prankster Pokemon.
    • Can use a decent RestTalk whirlwind set, but is outclasses by Munchlax who has superior special defenses and similar resistances.
    • Magic Coat is a fun, situational move that surprises notorious status inducers, because reflecting Jynx's Lovely Kiss back on her is hilarious.
    • Can run a set of Rest / Sleep Talk / Psyshock / Heal Bell for self-recovery, but Grumpig loses its utility as a phaser and as a status inducer.

    [CHECKS AND COUNTERS]

    • Most physical attackers can out speed and crush Grumpig, such as Skuntank, Scolipede, Golurk, Pinsir, and Swellow. Primeape deserves a special mention as super-effective U-Turns scare Grumpig out and harshly lose momentum for the team. Nevertheless, all of these Pokemon risk being hit by a Thunder Wave on the switch in or being blown right back out with Whirlwind.
    • Ground-Type Pokemon are great checks as they can come in on a Thunder Wave and set up/attack.
    • Any Taunt Pokemon forces Grumpig out, and Pokemon with Pursuit eat pork for dinner. Skuntank is a prime example of both of those scenarios.
    • Rapid Spinners ruin Grumpig's phasing antics, and Clerics spoil Grumpig's status shenanigans.
  2. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
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    Hi there ^_^, I have a few changes to present that may improve the analysis:

    I think the set name should be either "Cleric" or "Utility Supporter". Psyshock shouldn't be mentioned imo. Grumpig isn't offensive, so it doesn't need extra power to hit SpD walls, it should just be Psychic for good damage overall. I'd recommend moving Psyshock to AC.

    It doesn't enable them, it helps Rest to become a bit less gimmicky of an option as you can't always ensure the fact that you will pull off a Heal Bell.

    Also mention how it's too slow to pull off a Choice Specs set.

    Hope I helped :)

    EDIT: WOOHOO! 100th post! ^_^
  3. Hollywood

    Hollywood she's thin, she's blonde, she says "wow" a lot
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    Starting off, you don't really need to worry about justifying the need for a revamp. [: Most sets still need them, so don't worry about that so much unless it's something that is not already on-site. Also, I only really saw one mention of Thick Fat, and it was pretty brief. An Ice- and Fire-type resistance is a pretty big deal when comparing Grumpig to other Psychic-types. Don't sell it short in this regard, since it's one of Grumpig's only real niches.

    [Overview]

    • When you mention the use of Rest, I wouldn't necessarily say it should not use it. You can add an OO mention of a RestTalk Whirlwind set even, but I would mention that it's not very reliable and gives up the utility of Heal Bell. It does allow pig to check Jynx better though.

    [SET]

    • I agree with Rohail that the set should probably just be named "Utility Support."

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Psyshock deserves to be on the set because of Grumpig's ability to check Jynx. Psychic does nothing to Jynx. I've included calcs below. I would leave Psychic as the first slash, but leave what you have about Psyshock breaking Jynx's subs.

    • Slash Toxic on with Thunder Wave. Thunder Wave is great against more offensive teams, and Toxic is better for against bulky offense/stall, etc. Plus it's a nice catch-all for against walls.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Regirock and Carracosta are all around great Pokemon, but mention specifically what makes them good for partners alongside Grumpig. In general, a defensive Stealth Rock user is going to be better. You can also mention Miltank for this role, since it can take on Ghosts and pig can take Fighting-type moves.
    • When you mention Scolipede as a good partner, also mention that it can take on the Dark-type Pokemon that Grumpig would rather avoid.

    [Other Options]

    • Add Magic Coat here. It's sort of situational, but bouncing a Lovely Kiss back at a Jynx would be awesome. You can also bounce back Taunts and status, and you can even Heal Bell away the status so it doesn't really matter if they can still go ahead and status you the following turn.

    Go ahead and make these changes, and I'll stamp it.
  4. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    Added changes. Thank you guys for the tips!
  5. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    Few things

    some more teammates would be nice, just things that aren't helping with the phazing, but can take down counters to Grumpig. That's all I think needs to be changed though, just make sure you mention specific Pokemon in c&c, not just types!

    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  6. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    added changes
  7. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    [Overview]
    • I would not say that Rest Talk gives up Grumpig's niche as cleric. It can pull off something like: Rest / Sleep Talk / Heal Bell / Psyshock to be able to wake itself up and heal a team while being asleep. Sleep Talk also doesn't use up Heal Bell's PP and Psyshock allows it to check Jynx. Even so it loses some utility in Whirlwind and Thunder Wave / Toxic in doing so. Add this and everything I said above in Other Options while removing that tidbit about RestTalk not making it a cleric.

    [SET]
    • All of words before the colon should be in lowercase. For example: Name should be name, Move 1 should be move 1...etc. Your moves are spaced incorrectly. Move 2 should be Psyshock / Psychic (yes also make the change of Psyshock before Psychic because being able to deal good damage to Jynx is very important.) and move 4 should be Thunder Wave / Toxic.

    • Change EV spread to 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD Calm. Overall more bulk than before, though it is minimal.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Mention that the 0 Atk IVs are mainly only useful for taking Misdreavus's Foul Play as the only other user of it, Liepard, gets STAB on it and Grumpig should not be messing with it.

    • Mention Alomomola, Audino, and Lickilicky as good partners for Wish. With Alomomola taking on physically based threats and Lickilicky/Audino helping wall almost every special attacker alongside Grumpig.

    • Remove the bit about Scolipede taking Dark-type attacks for Grumpig. It doesn't take Foul Plays (From Missy or Liepard) or Crunches (From Skuntank) well, especially after Stealth Rock. The most common user of Dark-type moves is Skuntank who is capable of Pursuit trapping Grumpig and removing it from the game, something that Scolipede has no way of switching into.

    [Other Options]
    • Like I said in the Overview check, add a Rest / Sleep Talk / Heal Bell / Psyshock set here.

    [qc]2/3[/qc]
  8. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    Done thanks Ebeast
  9. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    Okay. Since this was your first analysis, you should know that after 2 QC checks you can write this up. Keep the skeleton hidden under
    Show Hide
    [/ hide] tags though. Don't change the tag to Copyediting until after the 3rd QC check.
  10. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    I got permission to have Zeb stretch the deadline because I am about to go on vacation for 2 weeks. I'll write this up as soon as I get back. See ya Smogon! You better still be working when I get back!
  11. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    Back and written :)
  12. WhiteDMist

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    The first 3 sentences in the overview can be condensed into a single sentence (the first two say the exact same thing).

    [Set Comments]
    I think its role is more of being a phazer and cleric than spreading paralysis, since you specifically mentioned hazards. I don't feel like Heal Bell curing Rest deserves a mention since that isn't a move you want to encourage people to stack a team with. Unless other QC members disagree, change these points please.

    {Additional Comments]
    Taunt should be mentioned going as a possible replacement for Thunder Wave imo. Whirlwind and Heal Bell are Grumpig's main niche as a defensive Psychic-type, so the last slot is the most changeable. Golem can just be moved to the examples of SR setters, then you can mention that it works particularly well because of the things you've described. Add a mention of Fighting-types being great counters to the Dark-types that threaten Grumpig.

    [Checks and Counters]

    Add in Misdreavus, since it can Taunt Grumpig, hit it with Foul Play/Shadow Ball, and Pain Split damage from Psychic.
  13. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    done thanks Dmist!
  14. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
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    Lickilicky should get a special mention as a cleric because it can also wall Grumpig completely with Heal Bell and Wish, while Body Slam will eventually take Grumpig out. Nothing much else to say, get this to GP.

    [qc]3/3[/qc]
  15. Namso

    Namso Guest

    AM check.

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    Corrections.
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    Comments.




    Good stuff. Written quite well overall.
  16. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    corrected thanks
  17. melvni

    melvni
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    GP check. Good job on writing this.

    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple

    GP 1/2.
  18. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    um i am unable to edit any of my threads/posts? and on my profile it says i never wrote any threads/posts before this. Whats up with dat?
  19. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    please delete this thread as i can no longer edit it for some reason
  20. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken what's important
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    Not deleting, but I'll lock it and move to L&O. Use the other thread to finish up. :toast:
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