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Gen 2 GSC Differences Collection for Simulator Implementation (help needed)

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by eric the espeon, Jan 28, 2011.

  1. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Just like the previous project for ADV which ended up helping PO implement the third generation, we will be collecting up as many differences between GSC and the third generation as possible to make it easier to implement on simulators.

    Data changes:

    • Remove of all Pokemon, Moves, and Items not obtainable in the first two generations and evolutionary links with them.
    • Remove Unown ! and ?
    • Remove Abilities and Natures entirely.
    • Add all Items removed from later games (list needed, I'll probably get this).
    • Modify learnsets (including NYPC moves, I'll go through my sources again and get a list... but they were really badly documented so it'll be hard to be 100% accurate.).

    Global mechanic changes:

    • Modify EV system (bulbapedia page).
    • Modify Hidden Power formula to this.
    • Hail weather condition does not exist.
    • Double battles do not exist.
    • Modify IV system (bulbapedia page):
    • IVs range from 0 to 15.
    • "Special" IV modifies both SpD and SpA stats.
    • HP IV determined by the other four. Take the last binary digit of Attack, Defense, Speed, and Special in order to generate the 4 digit binary number for the HP IV.
    • Gender determined by Attack IV. If the Attack IV is below a certain number specific to the species it is female, otherwise male.
      IV for setting the various genders and their ratios (open)
      87.5% male gender ratio
      Attack IV needs to be 0 or 1 to be female all others result in a male

      75% female ratio
      Attack IV needs to be below 12 to be female

      75% Male ratio
      Attack IV must be below 4 to be female

      50-50 ratio
      Attack IV must be below 8 to be female

      Gender ratios (open)
      Male - female

      87.5 - 12.5
      Bulbasaur
      Ivysaur
      Venusaur
      Charmander
      Charmeleon
      Charizard
      Squirtle
      Wartortle
      Blastoise
      Totodile
      Croconaw
      Feraligatr
      Chikorita
      Bayleef
      Meganium
      Cyndaquil
      Quilava
      Typhlosion
      Eevee
      Vaporeon
      Jolteon
      Flareon
      Fossils
      Snorlax
      Togepi
      Togetic

      25 - 75
      Cleffa
      Clefairy
      Clefable
      Vulpix
      Ninetales
      Igglybuff
      Jigglypuff
      Wigglytuff
      Snubbull
      Granbull
      Corsola

      50 - 50
      all others

      75 - 25
      Growlithe
      Arcanine
      Abra
      Kadabra
      Alakazam
      Machop
      Machoke
      Machamp
      Elekid
      Magby
      Electabuzz
      Magmar

      100 - 0
      Hitmontop
      Hitmonchan
      Hitmonlee
      Tyrogue
      Tauros
      Nidoran-M
      Nidorino
      Nidoking

      0 - 100
      Miltank
      Smoochum
      Jynx
      Kangaskhan
      Chansey
      Blissey

      Genderless
      Magnemite
      Magneton
      Staryu
      Starmie
      Voltorb
      Electrode
      Ditto
      Porygon
      Porygon2
      Unown
      Articuno
      Moltres
      Zapdos
      Mewtwo
      Mew
      Raikou
      Suicune
      Entei
      Celebi
      Lugia
      Ho-Oh
    • Shinyness based on IVs (if Speed, Defense, and Special IVs are 10, and the Attack IV is 2, 3, 6, 7, 10, 11, 14 or 15 the Pokemon will be Shiny).
    • Stats are capped at 999 with the exception below.
    • If Marowak's has Thick Club and it's Attack is boosted and the stat is boosted to over 1023 (e.g. like 255-256), it's Attack will roll back over to zero. Light Ball Pikachu with boosted SpA needs testing to see if if has the same behavior. Thief after rollover needs testing.
    • Bad poison changes (to normal poison) when a Pokemon is not active.

    Specific changes (e.g. specific items functioning differently):

    • Spikes can only stack to one layer, doing 12.5% to non-flying types.
    • Sleep Talk will not fail if it selects Rest, and will cause the Pokemon to use Rest (though Rest will fail as usual if the Pokemon is at full HP).
    • Counter, Mirror Coat, Roar, Vital Throw, and Whirlwind have -1 Priority.
    • Roar and Whirlwind will fail unless they move last.
    • Leech Seed doesn't drain HP the turn it's used.
    • For Ghost Curse: "defeating the opponent will prevent the Pokémon it is used on taking damage from Curse on that turn."
    • Outrage type moves do not display a message indicating that the user has become confused when they end.
    • In Gold/Silver Belly Drum causes the user to faint if it is at 50% or less. In Crystal and Stadium 2, it will display a failure message but still raise the Pokemon's attack by two stages.
    • In Gold/Silver when using Present the Level, Attack, and Defense variables in the damage formula are replaced by the index number of the defending Pokémon's type, 10, and the index number of the attacking Pokémon's type (secondary type is used for dual type Pokemon). Present will also only inflict a quarter of the normal damage against Rock-type and Steel-type Pokémon. In Crystal and Stadium 2 the normal mechanics are used. Details.
    Simple move changes (e.g. base power, accuracy):

    • Encore lasts 2-5 turns in GSC not the 4-8 in RSE.
    • Spite reduces the foe's PP by 1-5 rather than 2-5.
    • Powder Snow has a 9.8% chance of freezing the target rather than 10%.

    If you want to support the adoption of older generations by active simulators, this is the best way you can help out! Post any differences you can think of here, and please link to sources wherever possible.
  2. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
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    Spikes can only be laid once iirc, with the usual 12.5% damage on switches.

    Celebi cannot be obtained without a Gameshark, even with the Teru-sama glitch, but this is only relevant if tiers are being relooked at.
  3. khz

    khz

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    The physical/special split isn't implemented and the "type" of move is dependent on their elemental type. IIRC fire, water, electric, ice, grass, dark, psychic and dragon are special and the rest are physical.

    EDIT: @TobesMcGobes: That is false, I got a legit Celebi at a Nintendo event.
  4. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    I have clarified that we are looking for differences between GSC and the third gen not GSC and later gens, since RSE is the closest gen mechanically and will be what GSC code is based upon.

    Please link to sources. Smogon agrees with this, but Bulba does not.

    This is relevant, but there was an event for Celebi at least in japan.
  5. Borat

    Borat

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    First hand... source. Played before RSE even existed. 1 layer.
  6. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Ok, added. Linking to sources helps confirm things more quickly, but with Smogon's page plus you two it's enough to add.
  7. Alan

    Alan

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    list of nypc event moves and pokemon (open)
    *Starters Week*

    Bulbasaur-Ancientpower
    Charmander-Crunch
    Squirtle-Zap Cannon
    Chikorita-Petal Dance
    Cyndaquil-Double-Edge
    Totodile-Submission

    *Christmas Week*

    Delibird-Pay Day
    Celebi

    *Spring Into Spring*

    Psyduck-Petal Dance
    Chikorita-Petal Dance
    Pichu-Petal Dance
    Cleffa-Petal Dance
    Igglybuff-Petal Dance
    Smoochum-Petal Dance

    *Babies Week*

    Pichu-Sing
    Cleffa-Swift
    Igglybuff-Mimic
    Smoochum-Metronome
    Elekid-Pursuit
    Magby-Faint Attack

    *Valentine's Day*

    NidoranF-Lovely Kiss
    NidoranF-Sweet Kiss
    NidoranM-Lovely Kiss
    NidoranM-Sweet Kiss
    Bellsprout-Lovely Kiss
    Bellsprout-Sweet Kiss

    *Summer Festival 1 (Tropical Giveaway)*

    Poliwag-Growth
    Horsea-Haze
    Goldeen-Swords Dance
    Magikarp-Reversal
    Marill-Dizzy Punch
    Wooper-Belly Drum

    *Summer Festival 2 (Tropical Giveaway)*

    Psyduck-Tri Attack
    Tentacool-Confuse Ray
    Lapras-Bite
    Chinchou-Light Screen
    Remoraid-Mist
    Mantine-Gust

    *Swarm Week*

    Marill-Hydro Pump
    Yanma-Steel Wing
    Dunsparce-Horn Drill
    Snubull-Lovely Kiss
    Qwilfish-Double-Edge
    Remoraid-Amnesia

    *Pokémon Mini Week*

    Chikorita-Petal Dance
    Wooper-Belly Drum
    Smoochum-Metronome

    *Safari Week*

    NidoranF-Moonlight
    NidoranM-Morning Sun
    Chansey-Sweet Scent
    Kanghaskhan-Faint Attack
    Tauros-Quick Attack
    Dratini-Hydro Pump

    *Sky Week*

    Spearow-Sonic Boom
    Farfetch'd-Fury Cutter
    Doduo-Low Kick
    Natu-Safeguard
    Murkrow-Beat Up
    Skarmory-Fury Cutter

    *Power Plant Week*

    Magnemite-Agility
    Voltorb-Agility
    Pichu-Dizzy Punch
    Elekid-Dizzy Punch

    *Halloween*

    Pichu-Scary Face
    Cleffa-Scary Face
    Igglybuff-Scary Face
    Marill-Scary Face
    Wooper-Scary Face

    *Silver Cave*

    Ponyta-Low Kick
    Doduo-Low Kick
    Tangela-Synthesis
    Misdraveus-Hypnosis
    Larvitar-Rage

    *Union Cave*

    Onix-Sharpen
    Krabby-Metal Claw
    Goldeen-Swords Dance
    Staryu-Twister
    Lapras-Future Sight

    *Psychic Type*

    Abra-Foresight
    Drowzee-Amnesia
    Exeggcute-Sweet Scent
    Mr.Mime-Mind Reader
    Lapras-Future Sight
    Natu-Safeguard

    *Rock Tunnel*

    Zubat-Flail
    Machop-Thrash
    Geodude-Rapid Spin
    Onix-Sharpen
    Cubone-Fury Attack
    Kangaskhan-Faint Attack

    *Ice Type*

    Seel-Flail
    Lapras-Future Sight
    Swinub-Whirlwind
    Delibird-Spikes

    *Noctournal Week*

    Staryu-Twister
    Hoothoot-Night Shade
    Murkrow-Beat Up
    Misdreavus-Hypnosis
    Sneasel-Moonlight

    *Grass Type*

    Oddish-Leech Seed
    Paras-Synthesis
    Tangela-Synthesis
    Hoppip-Agility
    Sunkern-Splash

    *Normal Type*

    Lickitung-Double Slap
    Snorlax-Splash
    Sentret-Dizzy Punch
    Aipom-Mimic
    Stantler-Safeguard
    Miltank-Mega Kick

    *Mt. Mortar*
    Machop-False Swipe
    Goldeen-Swords Dance
    Magikarp-Bubble
    Marill-Dizzy Punch
    Tyrogue-Rage

    *Dark Cave*

    Geodude-Rapid Spin
    Wobbuffet-Mimic
    Dunsparce-Fury Attack
    Teddiursa-Sweet Scent
    Phanpy-Absorb

    *Valentine's Day*

    Poliwag-Lovely Kiss
    Poliwag-Sweet Kiss
    Bellsprout-Lovely Kiss
    Bellsprout-Sweet Kiss
    Snorlax-Lovely Kiss
    Snorlax-Sweek Kiss

    *Rare Pokémon*

    Eevee-Growth
    Porygon-Barrier
    Omanyte-Rock Throw
    Kabuto-Rock Throw
    Aerodactyl-Rock Throw
    Snorlax-Sweet Kiss
    Sudowoodo-Substitute

    *Bug Type*

    Scyther-Sonic Boom
    Pinsir-Rock Throw
    Ledyba-Barrier
    Spinarak-Growth
    Yanma-Sweet Kiss
    Pineco-Substitute
    Heracross-Seismic Toss


    its not listed but rest can be selected by sleep talk and will heal you upon being selected (assuming not at 100% hp)
  8. Borat

    Borat

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    I'm not 100% positive it's different on RSE, but phazing logic is the opposite. The slower pokemon gets the p-haze. This applies to other moves that are "forced" to go second, and only work when they go second (Vital Throw).
  9. AJC

    AJC

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    In pure Gold/Silver the move Present has a glitch that in a quick nutshell somehow uses the types of pokemon in it's attacking calc the result of this glitch can cause something like blissey to do stuff like 2-shot pokemon of the likes of umbreon.

    Fixed in stadium 2 and Crystal where it works like all future gens.

    IV for setting the various genders and their ratios are as follows

    87.5% male gender ratio

    attack IV needs to be 0 or 1 to be female all others result in a male

    75% female ratio

    attack IV needs to be below 12 to be female

    75% Male ratio

    Attack IV must be below 4 to be female

    50-50 ratio

    Attack IV must be below 8 to be female

    the remaining gender ratios are self explanatory.
  10. Rag

    Rag "aaaaaaaahhhh!"

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    Counter/Mirror Coat and Whirlwind/Roar have a -1 priority (which is the lowest priority bracket) rather than -4 and -5 respectively.

    Basically, due to there being only one negative priority bracket, every move intended to move last have a priority of -1.

    http://www.smogon.com/gs/articles/move_priority
  11. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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    -> -50% Belly Drum glitch.

    -> In GSC Leech Seed doesn't affect the opponent the same turn it's used.

    -> Encore turns are 2-5 in GSC and 4-8 in RSE

    -> Marowak's 1024 attack glitch

    -> In GSC bad poison dissapears (to normal poison) when you switch out.

    -> A sleep talked Roar/WW fails when the user is faster (a consequence of what Borat said)

    -> Curse "in Generation II, defeating the opponent will prevent the Pokémon it is used on taking damage from Curse on that turn." from Bulbapedia

    -> Outrage: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Outrage_(move) , so that you don't know if you are confused / Outrage has finished after the second turn.

    -> Spite: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Spite_(move). 1-5 pp in GSC; 2-5 in RSE

    -> Powder Snow has 9'8% chances of freezing in GSC and 10% in RSE... lol http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Powder_Snow_(move)

    -> I'm not sure about that, but I think that the chances of being defrosted are 10% in GSC and 20% in RSE

    -> I don't know if this only happens on NB but CHs doesn't only ignore attacker's drops and defender's drops because, for example, a +6 Snorlax doesn't KO another +6 Snorlax (both from Curse) with Double-Edge (it does around 60%, the damage doubled).
  12. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    I am aware of the UPC list (I used it when finding NYPC moves to add to the Smogon Dex), but it specifically claims to be incomplete. And contains a significant number of spelling errors. There are several other sources which I will be using, though I'm sure the people of this forum may be able to track down some additional ones.

    Ok.

    Alright.

    I'll need some more information on how this works exactly before adding.

    Alright.

    Ok.

    Details?

    Ok to all those.

    If someone could find a source for these it would help.

    Great find so far everyone, I'll update the OP after food.
  13. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
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    This is more of a pedantic error, but Special Attack and Special Defense always have same IVs in GSC.
  14. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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    When a Pokemon that is below 50% used BD, it's attack stat will raise 2 stages, instead of doing nothing as in later gens. I believe that this only happens on Crystal, as I think that if that happens in gold/silver the user faints. Anyway, competitive GSC has always been played with the +2 Atk glitch.
  15. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Already in the OP.

    hm, interesting. Smogon's page agrees with the GS effect, but suggests that the move fails if at less than half HP as in later gens. Need confirmation (a few others agreeing, and ideally a source to a site with good mechanics) before I add the Crystal/Stadium 2 mechanics. If Smogon's page is wrong I can fix that too.
  16. gene

    gene GENE
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    if you drum below half hp it says "but it failed!"

    you still get the +2 attack though
  17. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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    Genders: *Including previous evolutions

    Male - female

    87'5 - 12'5
    Bulbasaur
    Ivysaur
    Venusaur
    Charmander
    Charmeleon
    Charizard
    Squirtle
    Wartortle
    Blastoise
    Totodile
    Croconaw
    Feraligatr
    Chikorita
    Baileef
    Meganium
    Cyndaquil
    Quilava
    Typlosion
    Eevee
    Vaporeon
    Jolteon
    Flareon
    Fossils
    Snorlax
    Togepi
    Togetic

    25 - 75
    Cleffa
    Clefairy
    Clefable
    Vulpix
    Ninetales
    Igglybuff
    Jigglypuff
    Wigglytuff
    Snubull
    Granbull
    Corsola

    75 - 25
    Growlithe
    Arcanine
    Abra
    Kadabra
    Alakazam
    Machop
    Machoke
    Machamp
    Elekid
    Magby
    Electabuzz
    Magmar

    100 - 0
    Hitmontop
    Hitmonchan
    Hitmonlee
    Tyrogue
    Tauros
    Nidoran (M)
    Nidorino
    Nidoking

    0 - 100
    Miltank
    Smoochum
    Jynx
    Kangaskhan
    Chasney
    Blissey

    Genderless
    Magnemite Magneton
    Staryu
    Starmie
    Voltorb
    Electrode
    Ditto
    Porygon
    Porygon2
    Unown
    Articuno
    Moltres
    Zapdos
    Mewtwo
    Mew
    Raikou
    Suicune
    Entei
    Celebi
    Lugia
    Ho-oh
  18. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Updated all but Crystal's latest post and the ones I still have questions about (Present glitch). Crystal, could you edit the list to include all Pokemon other than the 50:50 group (add each of the starters/legends and all that), this will probably make it easier to add to the code. Good stuff so far everyone.
  19. Crystal_

    Crystal_
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    Edited gender list

    You can use the NB Pokédex for that.
  20. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    I'm unsure of NB's sources, but it would certainly help to have a full list of NYPC moves included in NB. If someone knows of such a list or is willing to make one by looking through the teambuilder it would be very helpful.

    Edit: Fixed a few spellings and added gender ratio list to the OP.
  21. Mr.E

    Mr.E im the best
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    Confirming Present glitch, although I don't recall the specifics. I remember that maximum damage is obtained when the attacker is of a physical type and the defender is of a special type. Hopefully there's a source out there to explain the full mechanics, I think the one I always used before was Meowth386's site and almost every trace of him has long since disappeared from the Internet.

    EDIT: But of course, the Bulbapedia's page for Present has it. And yeah, you can see that an Attacker of a physical type against a Defender of a special type leads to maximal damage.

    Stats are normally capped at 999 (both RBY and GSC) to avoid this problem, so this only applies to one circumstance: Thick Club Marowak. The Thick Club boost ignores this restriction for whatever reason. The item boost is probably applied after the stat check is done or something but why it happens isn't really important... Therefore, a Marowak with 1 SD boost can go to 500+ Attack, which is then doubled over 1000 with Thick Club. If it rolls over 1023 (e.g. like 255-256 :P), the Attack will roll back over to zero. This is why SD Marowak users are urged to use maximum Attack DV of 13, as 254*4 = 1016. (256*4 = 1024 and 258*4 = 1032, rolling over for Attack DVs 14 and 15.)

    It still fails in case the Sleep Talker is at 100% health, in case that wasn't apparent.
  22. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    His site is on the web archive, perhaps you know where it is and could be able to track it down there? I had a look, but no luck.

    Ah, I see, thank you. I'll add that (and to gen 1). Do you know if this is the same for Stadium 2/Crystal?

    Will clarify wording. And, I would expect Sleep Talk to work, then rest to fail, though I could be wrong.
  23. Mr.E

    Mr.E im the best
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    I edited my above post after dinner, looks like Bulba has info so "yeah."

    I'm pretty sure stats are still capped in Stadium/Crystal, I sure don't remember any sort of controversy surrounding mechanics changes in that area anyway. (And there is no way to break the cap in RBY, so no issue with the rollover glitch there.) Yes, Rest is what fails, as it does when you use it normally at 100% health.
  24. Borat

    Borat

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    Does LB Pikachu with Growth passes also stat-roll?
  25. AJC

    AJC

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    no it doesn't apparently from what i've heard LB doesn't have the same glitch thick club causes mostly because pikachu's special attack is 30 points lower so it doesn't reach the amount needed to hit the rollover.

    at least i never heard of a rollover glitch with pikachu

    also burn poison (both normal and toxic version) and ghost curse deal their damage after one inflicted with them moves instead of at the end of turn.

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