GSC In-Game Tier List

[Lucchini]

I don't think there's even a question that Cyndaquil can be comparable to Totodile.

The moment you arrive in Goldenrod, Croconaw gets Ice Punch. Another gym later it gets Surf.

What's Cyndaquil got? Ember until early 30s where it gets to Flame Wheel, and it gets Thunderpunch for coverage only at L36 which is when it's fully evolved. You've likely beaten Pryce's gym by then, so there's not a whole lot of waters still to be thunderpunched at that point, and those who are a bit too tough for Typhlosion (Clair's Kingdra). It's quite poor against Lance's dragons.

GameCorner's Fire Blast costs a fortune, whiffs and has bad PP. You also don't get early ingame Specs like you do in HG/SS.

I'd also like to note that Typhlosion isn't a very effective user of Earthquake, especially if you compare his attack stat to ones belonging to Tauros, Heracross, Ursaring and the like, not to mention STAB users like Nidoking. For crying out loud, Meganium is only 2 points of base physical attack behind Typhlosion.

 

[Colonel M]

Yeah but Meganium blows regardless if it has Earthquake or not.

Anyway I'll drop birdies to A.

 

[Tomy]

Yep, the birds are better suited to A-tier.

Murkrow isn't mentionned in the first post. Regardless of this, it's an obvious E-tier.

 

[Mekkah]

Also, I've always felt that Wooper is one of the best mons in the game. Its typing is superb, having roughly the same advantages as Totodile but with an immunity to Electric on top of it. It gets Ice Punch just the same. Earthquake at L35, so still somewhere in late Johto, but before then Surf is OP. It's not the best 'mon vs troublemakers like Gengar and Miltank, but Mud-Slap helps. I think it's better than pretty much any mon that comes after it (Sudowoodo, Miltank, Tauros, Nido's, etc.), obviously better than Chikorita (why is this in B tier?).

I think Snorlax could drop a bit. All these mons that are decent but actually do something in Johto are so much better. Maybe I just care less about Kanto than everyone else but again, that whole region has like two fights that actually differentiate between good mons and shitty mons. Lapras and Machop help like 10x as much as Snorlax does.

 

[Lucchini]

Wooper's bases are so bad though... Quagsire is good physically, but 35 base speed seriously brings him down from being GSC's equivalent to Swampert or something.

Speaking of Lapras, are we punishing it for availability at all? That natural Ice Beam has no precedent.

 

[Mekkah]

Base stats are overrated in importance imo. Wooper has an easy training opportunity with Onix/Geodude in Union Cave, and then there's some more random trainers where his type advantage can carry him. And it evolves so early at L20.

Lapras is a bit of a sidetrack especially with the whole Friday thing, but it comes with so many lategame worthy moves at a very solid level. I don't have level estimates right now but chances are Lapras is this close to being your best Pokemon the moment you catch it. I'd say it's better than or very debatable against a lot of 'mons in A tier. I'd pick Lapras over Tauros any day, but maybe I'm just not feeling Tauros in general.

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

So I just "speedrun" the game in Pokemon Gold, I defeated Red with following team:
Tauros Lvl. 57, Kadabra Lvl.55, Snorlax Lvl50, Spearow Lvl 12, Totodile 11, Gyarados Lvl 33

Special Note: Graveler Lvl.44

Two Things:
Without Nostalgia, the level balance in this game is retardly bad.

Anyways opinions:
Normal Types in this game kick ass. As soon as you are finishing the geodude phase, you can catch one of 3 Normal Types which serve you well in the whole game: Tauros, Stantler and Miltank. I chose Tauros for having the highest attack stat, but the other two are decent, Stantler actually has nearly the same power, is more common than Tauros and can run a decent powered Psychic and Hyponis+Dream Eater(not bad!...to bad it is so late), Miltank is another beast, having Shadow Ball(!!) as couverage alongside EQ etc. Miltank has the lowest attack however.

You see, me and my brother noticed how much power Normal Types get: After only the second badge, you already get TM Headbutt, a great move at this time, having 70 power and good PP. If only you could get normal types with decent stats earlier... you also get Strength with only 3 Badges (dafuq), a 80 base power move...
however
I played this game on Sunday and got the maybe best reason why Normal Types destroys everything you love, Return. Holy shit. I catched the Tauros, got Return via Graveler, latter was at this point level 30(!!!) at the Mall and it even destroyed Red with some Item Bag usage of one Revive. Seriously if you plan to play through this game superfast put the day on Sunday and catch following three pokemon:

Geodude in the beginning, buy Abra (and respective Punch Moves) and get a strong Normal Type like Stantler/Miltank/Tauros

Geodude was love from Lvl 3 until Kanto, in the beginning it wrecks everything expect my stupid idea getting the rival a razor leaf Chikorita (ouch, had to get a lvl 11 zubat xD) ...if you want to do a Geodude/Kadabra/Tauros run, choose Chikorita as your starter, so Geodude/Graveler has an easy start.

Why Geodude is S+ for the first 4 Gyms, Team Rocket and even the Steel Type gym:
-First 3 Gym can't touch you (Flying,Bug,Normal), you destroy them because
-Lvl 11 ROCK THROW. Like...how can anyone who is serious NOT use this at the beginning?
-Later it gets the awesome Magnitude, which can range from 40 base power till 150(!).
-Is a decent emergency Mon in Gym 4 (if you for some reason can't OHKO like me with Kadabra)

Kadabra (and lol gg Alakazam) is mentioned S. It is 100% without question true:
-Easy to get
-As soon as you get it: Teach it all three Punches, it literally needs only to train some level
-At Level 16, Confusion, gg game. And Level 21(!!!) Psy Beam. gg World
-Gets naturally Psychic, neato

So for a Geodude "run" (and later abra/normal type), choose chikorita in the beginning. With Gyarados HM Slave, Chikorita + Cut and Flash you are set

 

[Colonel M]

I dont see how Wooper's base stats (barring Speed) completely drag it down. Yeah 65 SpA sucks but our lord and savior Totdile doesn't even break 80 and some like Gyarados are even worse than Quagsire in the SpA department. What helps is, of course, STAB Surf and eventually STAB Earthquake. Water / Ground can absolutely shit on some gym leaders / E4 (especially Lance).

Currently Chikorita is B because... I actually want to see if this thing is worthy of lower than C. Like, Chikorita is pretty godawful and so are the majority of Grass-types in this game. She helps in, what, maybe twoish gyms (3 if we count Claire's Kingdra?), a route here and there, Slowbro from Will, Bruno's Onix, and then Brock / Misty....

...I mean aside from having Razor Leaf (which I admit is better than most Grass-types) the only thing going for it is that it can become a fully evolved Pokemon and can grab Earthquake for coverage or something. Call me really biased I guess but I think Grass-types in general barely contribute to the efficient playthrough of GSC and Chikorita's supportive movepool barely helps in the end of things barring situational circumstances.

 

[Fireburn]

I've played through GSC a ton so I have a couple opinions:

Wooper B -> A: Really easy to train upon capture, evolves quickly, and its stats are just good enough to hold its own. It has excellent coverage with Water/Ground STABs + Ice Punch right after evolving and Level 35 Earthquake is delicious. Only really fears Grass-types and super strong SpAttackers like Zam, it holds its own vs everything else and does amazing vs Team Rocket in particular. If you're worried about Lance's Dragons overpowering it, just teach it Amnesia (Level-Up move iirc) and it'll shrug off Outrage like a champ.

Chikorita B -> D: It's garbage and I would never use it over Cyndaquil or Totodile. I would actually tier Vileplume/Vic higher since they get Sleep Powder and can at least be TM'd Sludge Bomb for strong STAB. Grass-types in general are really meh until you get to Kanto, which isn't super difficult.

Vileplume D -> C: Should be same rank as Bellsprout imo.

Bellossom C -> D: Garbage, requires you to win the Bug Catching Contest to get its evo stone, doesn't get STAB on Sludge Bomb which makes it worse than Vileplume.

Everything else looks good to me.

 

[Tomy]

D-tier for Chickorita? Nope. The first two gyms are awful, but Bayleef is actually pretty great against Whitney with Reflect + PoisonPowder + decently strong Razor Leaf (Bye Miltank). Mud Slap can help for Morty and Jasmine's Magnemites, Chuck is beaten by Protect + Razor Leaf (Poliwhirl doesn't stand a chance), Jasmine's Steelix won't enjoy too many Razor Leafs. Meganium eats Pryce alive and is the best starter against Clair's Kingdra. Then, it has linited uses against Elite 4 - I agree, but its utilitly rises quite a lot in Kanto.

Saying Chickorita is the worst of the three starters is a thing, saying it deserves D-tier is another. I'm on the fence between B and C tier, leaning towards B.

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

Chikorita is good because your rivals team dies to Geodude alone. I had to grind a Zubat in a testrun with Totodile because Geodude was the only high level thing after gym 2.

 

[Colonel M]

Chikorita is good because your rivals team dies to Geodude alone. I had to grind a Zubat in a testrun with Totodile because Geodude was the only high level thing after gym 2.

Wouldnt it be better to just grind a Spearow to a decent level in that scenario.

 

[DHR-107]

Casting my mind back to when I was a wee lad playing Gold, Chokirota is fucking horrible. The lone good matcjup it has is vs Chuck's Poliwrath and it can do well in a pinch vs Pryce... But holy hell other than that it is pretty horrible. The whole game hates grass types. Rockets excel with Poison/Flying/Fire types, Rival's Starter hurts a lot and even things you should beat are kinda 50/50's like Miltank.

Quagsire basically pulled me through the game through sheer awesomeness. It should be A, it has great typing, a good movepool and is solidly bulky. I might have to grab one of my old games and have a blast through just to see whats what. Havent played any Gen 2 since one of the challenges for Orange League :P

 

[Millky95]

Planning on doing a run through of Gold soon, looking for 4 main Pokemon with 2 HM slaves. Any Pokemon people want me to have a look at?

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

Planning on doing a run through of Gold soon, looking for 4 main Pokemon with 2 HM slaves. Any Pokemon people want me to have a look at?

Tauros Lvl. 57, Kadabra Lvl.55, Snorlax Lvl50, Spearow Lvl 12, Totodile 11, Gyarados Lvl 33

Special Note: Graveler Lvl.44

So I defeated RED with above team, so I have some experience:

If you want an easy playthrough through the game easily, get Chikorita as a starter and catch, as soon as possible, a Geodude in the beginning. Train it until Lvl 11 for Rock Throw, defeat First Gym and everything else until Gym 3.


I would like it if you could test Stantler, and use Sunday as your day for TM Return, while grabbing some Limonade and the Punches for Drowzee/Nidoran family.

Basically, test out Stantler, Nidoran(whatever) and Drowzee for this game. Kadabra is ridiculous OP :P I would love to see if Drowzee can pull its weight with a decent powered Shadow Ball(! Elite Four). Nidoran family gets Dig I think (National Park), Surf and the Punches. Sounds gamebreaking!

 

[Millky95]

Tauros Lvl. 57, Kadabra Lvl.55, Snorlax Lvl50, Spearow Lvl 12, Totodile 11, Gyarados Lvl 33

Special Note: Graveler Lvl.44

So I defeated RED with above team, so I have some experience:

If you want an easy playthrough through the game easily, get Chikorita as a starter and catch, as soon as possible, a Geodude in the beginning. Train it until Lvl 11 for Rock Throw, defeat First Gym and everything else until Gym 3.


I would like it if you could test Stantler, and use Sunday as your day for TM Return, while grabbing some Limonade and the Punches for Drowzee/Nidoran family.

Basically, test out Stantler, Nidoran(whatever) and Drowzee for this game. Kadabra is ridiculous OP :P I would love to see if Drowzee can pull its weight with a decent powered Shadow Ball(! Elite Four). Nidoran family gets Dig I think (National Park), Surf and the Punches. Sounds gamebreaking!

I can do that. Ill start Sunday. Just want a 4th Pokemon as well though

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

A fourth Pokemon? Hmm, let us assume you catch red gyarados immediately and use it as an HM Slave. Your team would be Hypno/Stantler/Graveler/Nidoran /Farfetched/Gyaraslave(Cut, Fly, Surf, Waterfall, Strength, HM06/Water Whirl whatevs, Rock Smash)


You don't have to take Hypno, as Nidoking has a stronger Shadow Ball, so Hypno could be replaced with maybe Girafarig. Girafarig is an interesting case: It learns, late though, Crunch at 53, has confusion, can learn Thunder Shadow Ball Earthquake and Headbutt. Might be interesting(you can get it before Gym 4 by going through the cave instead of surfing to get Gyarados with Dragon Rage and Girafarig earlier)

So basically: Girafarig/Stantler/Nido/Graveler/Slave/Slave
or Hypno/Stantler/Nido/Graveler/Slave/Slave

 

[Colonel M]

I will also take input for Crystal stone evolution Pokemon too - dont be afraid to post anything on these. I saw Vileplume but thats about it.

 

[Lucchini]

Well, Staryu (C) could rise to A tier, if you ask me. Fast user of a very strong Surf that gets some great options in Kanto.

And the odd egg mons are too inefficient to be anywhere above tier D IMHO.

 

[Colonel M]

Well, Staryu (C) could rise to A tier, if you ask me. Fast user of a very strong Surf that gets some great options in Kanto.

And the odd egg mons are too inefficient to be anywhere above tier D IMHO.

I am about ready to shove them down honestly. I just want to test it real quick to get a general idea when the egg hatches. I probably will go from Morty to Red Gyarados then towards Chuck / Jasmine.

 

[Millky95]

OK so just beat Lance in Gold with the following team:

Hypno. Level 40. Fire Punch / Ice Punch / ThunderPunch / Shadow Ball
Golem. Level 46. Rock Throw / Magnitude / Earthquake / Tackle
Stantler. Level 39. Return / Hypnosis / Mud-Slap / Tackle
Nidoking. Level 39. Strength / Earthquake / Surf / Double Kick
Chikorita for Flash and Cut
Gyarados for Waterfall and Whirlpool

Lance's Dragonites where bitches but got through with item shenanigans. If I stopped to level them all to about 45 before entering the E4 I would've had an easier time towards the end. A few notes:
- Why don't either Nidoking or Stantler learn Dig?
- Nidoking evolved after Morty but before Chuck. Same time where you can get a Moon Stone in Crystal. Otherwise he would've waited until Tojoh Falls.
- Golem evolved so I could see what he was like fully evolved instead of normal Gravler. There is a difference.
- Seriously, why don't either Nidoking or Stantler learn Dig?
- I only used Golem up until Goldenrod where I caught Drowzee and NidoranM. After that only used him at the end of gym battles where I've almost won (such as Morty's Gengar that's in the red), against Rocket's and in the E4. Level farming against the Rockets is so easy.
- Why the fuck don't either Nidoking or Stantler learn Dig?

After Red I'll post more detailed analysis on each. Think I've got a few to move around.

EDIT: OK beat Red with:
Hypno. Level 51. Fire Punch / Ice Punch / ThunderPunch / Psychic
Golem. Level 50. Rock Throw / Magnitude / Earthquake / Tackle
Stantler. Level 50. Return / Hypnosis / Mud-Slap / Tackle
Nidoking. Level 51. Strength / Earthquake / Surf / Double Kick
Chikorita for Flash and Cut
Gyarados for Waterfall and Whirlpool

Hypno:

Hide

Availability -
Early-Mid. Route 34, 35 just before and after Goldenrod City. Comes around level 12.

Typing -
Psychic typing is nice. Lack of early and decent Psychic STAB isn't

Stats -
Average HP and offensive stats on both sides. Quite slow and it really shows later in the game. Can take Special moves quite well though

Movepool -
Confusion is it's only Psychic level up STAB before evolving which is quite poor. It learns Psychic at 49 but by then you'll have the TM from Mr Psychic in Saffron City. The Elemental Punches are awesome and are what holds Hypo up. As strong as STAB Confusion with really nice coverage. Hypnosis is always a good move to have. Can run Shadow Ball too if you want but I found it only good against other Psychic types. Hypnosis is better

Major Battles -
Whitney: Hypnosis on Miltank or hope to get a freeze or Burn with one of the punches.
Morty: Hypnosis before they can really do anything to you. you may get Cursed. Use the punches.
Chuck: Thunderpunch destroys Poliwrath. Could use Confusion as well if you have it.
Jasmine: Fire Punch rules all.
Pryce: Thunderpunch for everything but Fire Punch for Piloswine
Clair: Ice Punch is your best move here. Can try to sleep Kingdra
Team Rocket: Thunder/Ice Punch for Zubats, Confusion for everything.
Rival: Fire Punch Sneasal (watch out for Faint Attack), Magnaton and Meganium, Psychic for Golbat, Typhlosion and Gengar, Hypnosis for Alakazam and weaken with your punches. Thunder Punch for Feraligator
Will: Thunderpunch Xatu and Slowbro, Fire Punch jynx and Exeggutor
Koga: Fire Punch Ariados, Forretress and Venomoth, Psychic Muk if you have it, Thunderpunch Crobat
Bruno: If you have Psychic, use it on everything with Ice Punch on Onyx. If not, Hypnosis and punch away
Karen: Avoid Umbreon and Houndoom if you can, ice Punch Vileplume and Murkrow, Psychic Gengar
Lance: Ice Punch the Dragonites, Thunderpunch Charizard, Aerodactyl and Gyarados.
Lt. Surge: Psychic works for most, Fire Punch Magnatons
Sabrina: punch for Hax if you don't have Hypnosis
Erika: Psychic and Fire/ice Punch takes care of most
Janine: Psychic everything
Misty: Thunderpunch everything except Quagiser. Who you Psychic
Brock: Ice Punch hurts most, Thunderpunch the fossils
Blaine: Psychic
Blue: Thunderpunch Gyarados, Pidgeot, Ice Punch Exeggutor and Rhydon, Psychic Arcanine, hypnosis and Punch Alakazam
Red: Psychic and Hyspnosis Pikachu, Venusaur and Snorlax. Espeon will be a pain but try and make it sleep. Thunderpunch Charizard and Blastoise.

Rank: I think B - B- Rank would work. The coverage from the Punches is incredible and Hypnosis is always handy. However, no decent psychic move until later in the game combined with being really slow hurts its output. Can fit anywhere on a team in need of a special attacker

Golem (trade)

Hide

Availability -
Early. Route 46 comes at level 3.

Typing -
Rock / Ground. Horrible Grass and Water weakness but good for in-game

Stats -
Slow. Very slow. Good defense and decent attack. Special attacks will hurt though

Movepool -
Rock Throw or Rollout are you best Rock STABs whilst Magnitude and Earthquake are Ground STABs. Can use Stregnth if you like but those moves will do you for the game.

Major Battles -
Falkner: Rock Throw destroys this gym. Mud Slap can be annoying though
Bugsy: Rock Throw again destroys this gym.
Whitney: Use Magnitude on both. Resists the deviled Rollout
Morty: Magnitude destroys everything.
Chuck: Try to avoid this gym. Poliwrath destroys you.
Jasmine: Magnitude is your best friend
Pryce: Try to avoid if you can but Pryce's Mons don't know any Water moves but their Ice Moves will hurt.
Clair: Avoid. Only 1 Dragonair doesn't know a Super Effective move and you can't tell which one until you see all it's moves.
Team Rocket: Destroys everything. Magnitude for anything that isn't Zubat and Rock Throw for everything that is.
Rival: Rock Throw for Sneasal and Crobat, Magnitude/Earthquake for Gengar, Magnaton and Typlosion. Try to avoid the other starters and Alakazam.
Will: Rock Throw for the Xatus and Jynx
Koga: Rock Throw Ariados, Venomoth and Crobat, Earthquake Forretress and Muk
Bruno: Avoid
Karen: Earthquake Houndoom, Umbreon and Gengar. Rock Throw for Murkrow.
Lance: Rock Throw everything. Only 1 of the Level 47 Dragonites have Blizzard whilst the level 50 has Outrage.
Lt. Surge: Earthquake
Sabrina: Try and avoid.
Erika: Avoid
Janine: Earthquake
Misty: Avoid
Brock: Earthqauke but avoid the fossils
Blaine: Earthqauke
Blue: Rock Throw Pidgeot, Earthquake Arcanine and Rhydon
Red: Earthquake Pikachu and Snorlax neither can really hurt you. Espeon'sPsychic can hurt though. Rock Throw for Charizard. Avoid Blastoise and Venusaur.

Rank: S. With a trade, Golem is probably the best if not one of the best Pokemon in the game. He takes care of the first 5 of the 6 gyms and is useful in at least 9/16. Can single handedly take care of Team Rocket and your rival Pre Victory Road and if you choose Chikarita. More than handy in the Elite 4. Handles half of Red's team. All with a slow speed. With a trade, S. Easily.

Nidoking GS/C

Hide

Availability -
Early - Mid. Route 35 level 12.

Typing -
Poison / Ground. Pretty average but Ground typing has some good moments.

Stats -
Allround nice. More emphasis on attacking stats.

Movepool -
Wide but lacks good Poison STABs and Ground STAB comes quite late. Earthquake comes after the 8th Gym

Major Battles -
Whitney: Does fair. Double Kick is somewhat helpful.
Morty: Fairly useless.
Chuck: Surf is alright on Primeape. Avoid Poliwrath
Jasmine: Surf is good for Steelix, Double Kick the Magnamites
Pryce: Double Kick can do some damage. Surf Piloswine
Clair: Avoid
Team Rocket: Surf can come in handy at times otherwise stuck using Strength
Rival: Avoid Alakzam. Surf/Earthquake Typhlosion.
Will: Strength but mostly useless
Koga: Earthquake everything. Stength Crobat
Bruno: Surf hurts Onix, Earthquake can do some good damage to the rest
Karen: Earthquake Gengar and Houndoom.
Lance: Surf Charizard and Aerodactly. Best to avoid the rest or use Stregnth
Lt. Surge: Earthquake
Sabrina: Avoid
Erika: Earthquake can help but otherwise avoid
Janine: Earthquake
Misty: Avoid
Brock: Earthquake
Blaine: Earthquake
Blue: Earthquake Arcanine and Rhydon. Avoid Gyarados and alakzam
Red: Earthquake Pikachu. Can do some damage all around depending on moveset. Avoid Blastoise and Espeon

Rank: In Crystal, A. Moon Stone comes just after Morty. Can then Surf and eventually Earthquake. In G/S B as the Moon Stone doesn't come until after Clair. Doesn't pull it's weight with a lack of ground move and stronger stats.

Stantler:

Hide

Availability -
Mid. Route 37. Level 13

Typing -
Normal. Pretty decent. Only the one weakness but the lack of super effectiveness hurts.

Stats -
Decent attacking stats and speed. Defensively weak.

Movepool -
Tiny. Return is the key move if you are at Goldenrod on a Sunday. Headbutt can work until you get Return. STAB Return really hurts later in the game. Hypnosis is always excellent. Psychic comes later nothing else on your team needs it

Major Battles -
Use Return on everything and make sleep what you think could be more than a 2HKO.

Rank: B-C. Return is so powerful it can sweep gyms with a lack of type advantage. The lack of a better move than Mud Slap hurts early on but Earthquake rectifies that to a point. Not super fast but STAB Return shouldn't be under estimated. Mid to Low B or High C.

 

[Mekkah]

Jasmine's Steelix won't enjoy too many Razor Leafs.

Idk, I remember that doing very little. Her Steelix is really overleveled. This is not a good matchup. Bayleef is also slower than Gengar and perhaps even Gastly/Haunter so they'll be firing off at least one annoying move before you can Mud Slap, and then they can also Spite and stuff. There's reasons for not sandbagging Bayleef all the way to D tier but its gym matchups are mediocre at best.

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

[...]

Thank you very much for this playthrough, I appreaciate your detailed post especially on Golem, cementing how incredibly awesome he is(and how useful he is against the Rival, too). I also like how you emphasize its impact despite the fact he is so god damn slow. Thanks!(I wonder if you teached it Mud Slap immediately to have an even easier time like me. Just wonderin)

^^ The very main reason to choose Chikorita Ladies and Gentlemen, Flash+Cut, and Geodude through the game ^^ Otherwise, it sucks ass

Stantler and Nidoking not learning Dig is retarded and I have to excuse myself, I honestly thought Nido could learn it. Your ranking makes sense. I overrated Shadow Ball too it seems. But it shows how good Tauros is of course. It even can learn Surf incase you have no water type


Nidoking is more dissappointing than I thought. I think Golem itself is the true ground type king. I wonder what compliments it the best to blast through the game(abra doesn't count as it destroys the game)


EDIT: THANK YOU SMOGON FOR SAVING MY TEXT AFTER MY COMPUTER CRASHED; THANK YOU!

 

[Millky95]

Thank you very much for this playthrough, I appreaciate your detailed post especially on Golem, cementing how incredibly awesome he is(and how useful he is against the Rival, too). I also like how you emphasize its impact despite the fact he is so god damn slow. Thanks!(I wonder if you teached it Mud Slap immediately to have an even easier time like me. Just wonderin)

^^ The very main reason to choose Chikorita Ladies and Gentlemen, Flash+Cut, and Geodude through the game ^^ Otherwise, it sucks ass

Stantler and Nidoking not learning Dig is retarded and I have to excuse myself, I honestly thought Nido could learn it. Your ranking makes sense. I overrated Shadow Ball too it seems. But it shows how good Tauros is of course. It even can learn Surf incase you have no water type


Nidoking is more dissappointing than I thought. I think Golem itself is the true ground type king. I wonder what compliments it the best to blast through the game(abra doesn't count as it destroys the game)


EDIT: THANK YOU SMOGON FOR SAVING MY TEXT AFTER MY COMPUTER CRASHED; THANK YOU!

As Magnitude comes pretty early and I swore Nidoking got dig, I gave Stantler mud Slap.

Nidoking is A in Crystal though. Earthquake is as danergous as ever and you probably could use a better moveset than I did. Issue is the Moon Stone. Requires some small backtracking but otherwise is great. No Moon Stone and not A material at all. Golem is a god with a trade.

 

[Lucchini]

Nidoking doesn't learn Dig until next gen... Nor does Stantler by the way (nor does his learn it ever in the later gens). Mud-Slap is too weak to take seriously, and Earthquake is heavily competed for.

What's the difference between GS Nido and C Nido? Aside from Crystal's move tutor, the Tohjo Falls Moon Stone is available in all three versions. It's not one of the stones you need a phone call for.

Also, I followed Colonel M's lead and took a look just how big the stat / type attack boosts are in this game as a result of getting different badges. Here are my discoveries until Kanto:

Assuming a Chuck -> Jasmine -> Pryce route for easier navigation with the Fly HM. You get a 9/8 boost to attack after Falkner, and a 9/8 boost to special attack after Pryce, plus you get a 9/8 boost for each type whose badge you possess, so phys attackers are at an advantage for a while. Also note that a lot of elemental types are not represented in Johto at all, and that the first 6 gyms are all physical.

This basically shows why normal-types using their STABs hurt as much as they do - besides good availability of moves (and really strong users thereof, like Tauros, Miltank, Stantler, Ursaring) and high-powered early Returns being there, you also get roughly a 26% bonus to attacks which is like half a STAB - hence using normal moves almost feels you're using super-effective coverage when done by STAB-users... Except the coverage is extended to everyone that's not a rock or steel type. This explains why Tauros and co. are as good as they appear to be.

Just something to look at and consider in the future; not sure if I should try to get Spearow into A tier by appealing to how early the 26% boosts to its STABs come, but it could help its case if we do investigate into that particular mon.