Gold / Silver / Crystal In-Game Tiers Revamp Thread Hey everyone, since the old thread kind of stagnated a few months ago, I talked to Redew and he gave me permission to take over this project. I also think that we should start from scratch so that people who want to contribute can do so without wading through everything the last few threads on this topic have said. By all means, feel free to peruse those if you wish, but we will not be using them as the underlying basis for the tiering we do here. Also, please don't be fooled by my join date and postcount, I've been lurking on Smogon for years and have a very solid idea of how the site works. I was also inducted into the C&C Grammar-Prose team within a day of registering. I am an avid GSC (mostly Crystal) player (though I think I've put more hours into RBY and FRLG), so I feel qualified enough to lead this discussion. With all of that out of the way, let's begin! The first order of business is to clarify how we are ranking the Pokemon. To any of you who have participated in other in-game tiering sessions, this should be old hat. Here are a few things I stole from atsync's RBY In-Game Tiers article that are worth looking over: "The best possible Pokemon for an in-game team is one that is obtained at the start of the game, can OHKO enemies easily, takes little damage in return, can learn useful moves upon leveling up, isn't too reliant on valuable TMs, and matches up well against all Gym Leaders and Elite 4 members. Naturally, such a Pokemon doesn't exist, but Pokemon that are closer to this ideal are obviously the best ones to use." "Don't confuse an efficient run with a speed run. Speed runs are often segmented and recorded with luck manipulation through resets; these runs aim for the absolute fastest in-game time, but the real time spent on them is usually much more. An "efficient" run simply assumes that you want to play through in a relatively short amount of real time. The most efficient team size for these types of runs is only one member. However, using this team size for the purposes of tiering would result in the list becoming incredibly centralized around Pokemon with specific coverage obtained early on in the game. Therefore, this list assumes teams will have at least 3 members." The most important characteristics that should be considered are as follows: Availability - This includes how early in the game it can be caught, the level it can be caught at compared to what the average Pokemon level is at that point, how easily it can be found, and how much a pain getting it to its final evolutionary form is. In addition, we have to consider how immediately useful the Pokemon is upon obtaining it. Be aware that the evolution stones are absurdly hard to obtain in Gold and Silver, and are still not overwhelmingly abundant in Crystal. Stats - This takes into account how high the Pokemon's overall stats are, both when you catch it and once it evolves and also how well the Pokemon's stats are distributed. Offensive stats are generally given precedence over defensive stats. Movepool - This considers the Pokemon's level-up movepool in addition to how many of the readily-accessible purchased TMs it can use, the most important of these being the elemental punches. This is especially important because many Pokemon have poor level-up movepools, but can become extremely useful when taught the elemental punches. How many HMs it can learn should also be considered. Typing - This looks at what STAB the Pokemon has and what types of attacks it resists. Certain resists are more useful than others due to the ubiquity of certain enemy attacking types. Endurance - Can a Pokemon run through an entire route's worth of trainers without having to retreat back to a Pokemon center? When determining a Pokemon's endurance, you shouldn't only take into account whether or not the Pokemon would need to heal constantly, but also if its PP can last. A Pokemon that can OHKO everything with only Fire Blast will be rendered useless after only two battles. Match-ups - How does this Pokemon fare against important trainers? Gym Leaders, Elite Four, Red, and your Rival are all included in this list. Rival battles are especially important because a few of them can be quite difficult (Azalea Town comes to mind). Again, consider how the Pokemon fares against Pokemon and trainers immediately after obtaining it. Other considerations include how easy it is to train and level up, the pace at which it learns good moves, how it compares to Pokemon that fulfill similar roles, and how cool it looks (kidding). The tiering system will divide Pokemon into 6 groups: Top, High, Mid, Low, Bottom, Unavailable. A Pokemon in Top is closest to ideal and one in Bottom is farthest away. Unavailable Pokemon are those that cannot be obtained without trading and thus will not be considered. When posting, just give the Pokemon, a recommendation for tier placement, and an argument for why it belongs in that tier. We will do write-ups after we've tiered everything to maximize efficiency. Anyone who is familiar with GSC can contribute, but don't be rude or an idiot. This is a discussion and people will inevitably disagree with each other, but polite discourse will make everything run much more smoothly. If you disagree with a placement, respond with a valid and thoughtful argument as to why you think the Pokemon should be moved. Here's a list of Pokemon that need to be reviewed. I will update them with discussed and done tags. Towards the end, I will start to add a tag that indicates more discussion is necessary before the Pokemon is tiered. Pokemon with a [DONE] tag will not have its tier changed without very good reason. Pokemon with tags separated by commas need to be reviewed for each indicated version. For example, a Pokemon with (GS, C) needs to have a Gold/Silver review and a Crystal review while a Pokemon with (G, C) needs a Gold review and a Crystal review. List Hide (Move your mouse to the hide area to reveal the content) Show Hide Hide Hide Bulbasaur [DONE] Charmander [DONE] Squirtle [DONE] Caterpie Weedle Pidgey Rattata Spearow Ekans Pikachu Sandshrew NidoranF NidoranM Clefairy Vulpix (S) Jigglypuff Zubat Oddish Paras Venonat Diglett Meowth (SC) Psyduck Mankey (G) Growlithe (GC) Poliwag Abra Machop Bellsprout Tentacool Geodude Ponyta Slowpoke Magnemite Farfetch'd Doduo Seel Grimer Shellder Gastly Onix Drowzee Krabby Voltorb Exeggcute Cubone Lickitung Koffing Rhyhorn Chansey Tangela Kangaskhan Horsea Goldeen Staryu Mr. Mime Scyther Jynx (GS, C) Electabuzz Magmar (GS, C) Pinsir Tauros Magikarp Red Gyarados Lapras Ditto Eevee (Vaporeon) Eevee (Jolteon) Eevee (Flareon) Porygon Omanyte [DONE] Kabuto [DONE] Aerodactyl Snorlax Articuno [DONE] Zapdos [DONE] Moltres [DONE] Dratini Mewtwo [DONE] Mew [DONE] Chikorita Cyndaquil Totodile Sentret Hoothoot Ledyba (SC) Spinarak (GC) Chinchou Togepi Natu Mareep (GS) Bellossom Marill Sudowoodo Hoppip Aipom Sunkern Yanma Wooper Eevee (Espeon) Eevee (Umbreon) Murkrow Misdreavus Unown Wobbuffet Girafarig (GS) Pineco Dunsparce Gligar (GC) Snubbull Qwilfish Scizor Shuckle Heracross Sneasel Teddiursa (G, C) Slugma Swinub Corsola Remoraid (GS) Delibird (SC) Mantine (GC) Skarmory (SC) Houndour Phanpy (S, C) Stantler Smeargle Tyrogue (GS, C) Smoochum (C) Miltank Raikou Entei Suicune (GS, C) Larvitar Lugia (GC, S) Ho-Oh (SC, G) Celebi [DONE] Let me know if I forgot anything.