Gen 2 GSC STABmons General Discussion (RoA Rotational Ladder)

Jellicent

is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Ruiner of Alph
#1
Thanks Typhlito for suggesting the format and The Immortal for making it happen~

GSC STABmons is pretty straightforward, but the possibilities are plentiful. Every Pokemon in GSC OU gains access to every move of their type. For example, Nidoking gains Spikes and Sludge Bomb. This also applies to moves a Pokemon would have gained access to from their pre-evolutions, so Jolteon for instance can use Lovely Kiss.

Feel free to use this thread to discuss what's dominant in this format, share teams or sets, and showcase ways of using previously underwhelming Pokemon. We'll also use this thread to handle any proposed bans. At the moment, the issue of every Normal-type gaining access to Mean Look + Perish Song has been raised. This combo is already claused in GSC OU, so just quick banning perish trapping outright might not be a bad idea. Alternatively, we could just ban Mean Look (and Sticky Web?) and not worry about trapping as a whole.

This format will be available as a ladder for the month of August 2017. The GSC STABmons Mini-Tournament is still accepting subs.
 
Last edited:
#2
HAHAHAHA Normals are OP now HAHAHAHAHAHA

all hail Ekiller Ursaring

all hail normalspam

all hail Swords Dance/Belly Drum/Baton Pass/Super Fang/Encore/Explosion normal mon

i mean normals even get shit like disable and foresight and glare and shit

like growth porygon2

this tier will be a meme

so save replays of this shit in the name of harambe

Earthworm Jorgen this actually exists
 

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
#3
Ekiller Ursaring would be balls. Only 8PP and not enough mustard.

Now Bdrum Tauros with Recover. That's a Poke right there.

tbh I'm not sure ptrap would be the all that much more powerful than all that other stuff. all of it just points to Skarmory being the linchpin of teams even moreso than it already is in regular GSC, and I don't see that changing by removing just one of the many things that Skarm is needed for.

also fwiw only sleep-perish-trap is claused in standard OU (unless something changed recently?)
 
#4
Jolteon @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
- Thunderbolt
- Lovely Kiss
- Mean Look
- Baton Pass


BEST. SET. EVER. ( except when it misses LK). Trap something, sleep it and pass to a counter.

They send a Ground Type? Go to Vaporeon and use Surf!
Blissey? Go to Heracross, which now learns Cross Chop.
Does that Zapdos want to absorb the sleep? Just trap it, go to Steelix, put Spikes and EXPLODE! Its even easier against Raikou, who is killed by the same Steelix.

You can even pair it with something like a CurseLax, which can get to +6 easily against some mons ( see again: Blissey).

Technically you can do the same strategy with any Eeveelution and or normal type, but Jolteon threatens with STAB some common phazers, like Skarmory ( which should be pretty common with so many crazy normal types) or Suicune.

Here is a Low Ladder ( not many people play the Tier) Replay showing the set:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2stabmons-612140220
 
Last edited:

sin(pi)

lucky n bad
#5
Just gonna quote myself here because resources are cool
Not sure if discussion for this should go here or in RoA, but I took some time out to list notable moves for each type, with a couple of comments:
edit: idk what the banlist is either, though I assume it follows GSC OU, so this might have some banned moves
Megahorn

Crunch, Pursuit, Thief (notable for stealing Lefties)

Outrage for Kingdra if you're into that sort of thing, I guess, but it's only 90 BP

Thunder, Thunderbolt, Thunder Wave

Cross Chop, Low Kick, Mach Punch, Reversal, Counter, Seismic Toss

Sacred Fire, Fire Blast

Aeroblast, Drill Pick (Drill Peck is listed because Aeroblast has low PP)

All Ghost types (four of them - the Gengar line and Missy) already have their relevant moves

Giga Drain, Leech Seed, Razor Leaf, Spore, Synthesis (Giga Drain has very low PP, so you may end up using Razor Leaf or HP Grass)

Bonemerang, Earthquake, Spikes (spikes are pretty metagame-defining in GSC OU)

Ice Beam, Icy Wind, Haze

Body Slam, Double Edge, Explosion, Extreme Speed (notably only +1 priority)
Belly Drum, Baton Pass, Charm (useful to PP Stall Cursers), Disable, Glare, Growth, Heal Bell, Lovely Kiss, Milk Drink, Perish Song (particularly useful for things like lastmon Curselax), Psych Up (top tier meme) Rapid Spin, Screech, Soft-Boiled, Swords Dance, Transform, Whirlwind

Sludge Bomb

Psychic, Agility, Hypnosis, Light Screen, Mirror Coat, Reflect

Rock Slide

Steel Wing,

Surf, Hydro Pump (notably, Crabhammer is weaker and less accurate than Surf, though it does have a high crit rate)

Hidden Power maxes out at 70BP this gen, so it does have a niche if the other moves for a type are pathetically weak (looking at you, Grass)

As for the meta itself, normal types (and Eeveelutions) look incredibly threatening, with reliable recovery and a huge support movepool. For example, Curselax now has an extra moveslot it can dedicate to coverage (eg Earthquake to hit Rocks/Steels, or Baton Pass, or Glare/Lovely Kiss to bypass checks, or Disable to meme on Charmers, or Whirlwind to meme on phazers - a quirk of GSC is that phazing fails if the phazer doesn't move last, or...). You also have cool things like Umbreon which can Spin and cleric. Fighting checks will probably be mandatory as a result, especially for Heracross, whose powerful STAB Megahorn destroys Psychic types, but also Machamp. I'm sure there are plenty of threats I'm missing (Glare shuffling with Spikes support, for instance), but these are some of the threats you're likely to see.
As for Perishtrap, I don't see any reason why this is considered competitive. Psong by itself is fine, though, so either ban Mean Look (preferable imo, deals with trappassing as well which is equally dumb) or the combination. All normal types also get access to LK, which makes this way worse honestly.
 
#6
Just gonna quote myself here because resources are cool

As for Perishtrap, I don't see any reason why this is considered competitive. Psong by itself is fine, though, so either ban Mean Look (preferable imo, deals with trappassing as well which is equally dumb) or the combination. All normal types also get access to LK, which makes this way worse honestly.
Um, you list lacks Recover for normal types (I'd slash it with Milk Drink personally). It's also worth noting that the Electrics gain just about nothing from this. Also, I wouldn't say Fire Blast on there because nothing really gains it - most fires already had it. Finally, I think that HJK should be noted in Fighting types moves for a more accurate alternative to Cross Chop that has more PP. Up to you tho - it's not really that good.

Also, I'm gonna second the ban of PerishTrap. There are waaaaaaay too many mons that can abuse this, especially with Lovely Kiss.

On a final note, I'd like to drop a Moltres set:
Moltres @ Leftovers
- Sacred Fire
- Aeroblast
- HP Grass
- Agility
This does a very good job of cleaning up teams. It's not the god that Aerodactyl is in this meta but it's still really good.
 
#7
I say we ban trapping moves as PerishTrap can be put on any normal type/eeveelution. Considering normal types can also run TrapPass and SleepTrap just ban trapping moves and all of these cheap strategies are gone.
 
#8
Charizard @ Leftovers
- Belly Drum
- Aeroblast
- Sacred Fire
- Rock Slide / Earthquake

BellyZard now has a strong STAB to work off +6 Attack, and has a high crit chance to blast through Curse Snorlax like its nothing, or even have the chance to OHKO Zapdos with a crit as well. Sacred Fire also has higher accuracy than Fire Blast and has a nasty 50% burn chance. You could opt for EQ or Rock Slide for your 4th move slot depending on what you're scared of. Zapdos and Aerodactyl (I say Aerodactyl because I like to AgiliPass with Jolteon) get smacked by Rock Slide while Raikou and Jolteon get hurt by EQ.
 
Last edited:

Jellicent

is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Ruiner of Alph
#9
Made a pretty straightforward bomb squad that's easy to use, if anyone's looking to try out the format. It has a decent backbone against Normal spam while really being just that. It definitely has some weaknesses, but you can usually just explode your way past them (that kinda goes without saying for a boom team, but having 3 boomers at the 110+ Speed mark [opp can't move after you explode], 2 strong priority users, plus the sheer power of Lax's / BellyBull's Explosion... it's just a lot scarier than traditional boom.) That lead Jolt's a fun one in general, btw :3

Jolteon @ Leftovers
IVs: 14 HP / 28 Atk / 26 Def
- Lovely Kiss
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Explosion

Exeggutor @ Leftovers
- Spore
- Psychic
- Giga Drain
- Explosion

Steelix @ Leftovers
- Earthquake
- Spikes
- Roar
- Explosion

Gengar @ Leftovers
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
- Dynamic Punch
- Explosion

Snorlax @ Leftovers
- Extreme Speed
- Fire Blast
- Recover
- Explosion

Tauros @ Leftovers
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Belly Drum
- Explosion
 

wishes

ghost
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Moderator
#10

Cloyster @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
- Haze
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam
- Surf

Here's a pretty cool set! Cloyster still does normal Cloyster things like Rapid Spin away Spikes, but now its got Haze. Haze is excellent because Cloyster is able to live the most powerful +6 Extreme Speed, which comes from Ursaring, and proceed to eliminate its boosts with Haze. Could easily, and probably should, fit on Explosion, though I haven't really tweaked enough to use it. Haze / Rapid Spin are mandatory, do what you want with the others. Explosion is probably excellent, it just slipped my mind. Give Cloyster a try!
 
#11

Cloyster @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
- Haze
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam
- Surf

Here's a pretty cool set! Cloyster still does normal Cloyster things like Rapid Spin away Spikes, but now its got Haze. Haze is excellent because Cloyster is able to live the most powerful +6 Extreme Speed, which comes from Ursaring, and proceed to eliminate its boosts with Haze. Could easily, and probably should, fit on Explosion, though I haven't really tweaked enough to use it. Haze / Rapid Spin are mandatory, do what you want with the others. Explosion is probably excellent, it just slipped my mind. Give Cloyster a try!
gen 2 stabmons, abilities lol
 
#13
wishes explosion + rapid spin is illegal on cloyster so the set you posted seems optimal, although this meta is a little fast for spike control imo


Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Whirlwind
- Iron Tail / Steel Wing

really good full stop to ekillers that want to sleep you, idk what to do with the fourth move so maybe someone could suggest a superior option. would pair it with steelix for extra fuck you

edit: some moves
 
Last edited:
#14
What about Transform Blissey ?
Could be infinitely useful so I can't list everything but it check check Snorlax, Marowak, reverse sweep a Vap, it's a nice counter to BP teams unless the receiver is a fighting poke ( or if you pair it with a Sub Pass thing in order to transform safely ), and, more that everything, it autowin vs Stall 'cause of infinite PP.
 
#15
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Whirlwind
- Iron Tail / Steel Wing
ok actually this is better, haven't seen much heracross or anything that really warrants drill peck. on the other hand, aerodactyl is a monster, and drill peck can't touch it plus it can flinch you to death with rock slide. skarm is already soaking a ton of hits from ekillers which have already started using fire blast so it needs a way to touch aero. iron tail is a 2hko but has only 75% accuracy, whereas steel wing only 2hkos about 1/4th of the time but is much more accurate and can raise your defense by one stage (it's only a 10% chance but still relevant). plus steel wing has way more pp if that ends up mattering. so i'd probably use steel wing but there is an argument for both moves. toxic is still an option too

the more i play this tier, the more i see how reliant you have to be on multiple normal resists / things that will tank +6 espeed and threaten normals from half hp. counter spam is potentially a good response to ekiller spam. been trying to make sacred fire entei work but haven't had much success yet. keeping some sets a secret until the mini-tour is over...
 
#16
BAN ACCESS TO MEAN LOOK.

Seriously. I expected some fun tier that was like STABmons in the newer gens and, over time, was met with the harsh reality that this ladder is just a contest of whose Jolteon moves first T1 to pass into Tauros and sweep. That's literally it. The tier is one big meme and imo barely even playable. TrapPassing just dominates everything so hard that all the strategical nuances you see in standard GSC simply don't exist here. And let's not even talk about Perish Song.
The only solution that would come to my mind to turn this into an actually interesting tier would be to ban Mean Look on all mons that don't naturally learn it. Perish Song is okay, you can switch the fuck out. Baton Pass is okay, we have phazers. What's not okay is that you don't get a chance to take sleep against a BPer and then switch to a phazer. If you switch Steelix into Jolteon T1, you take sleep and die to something like Fire Blast Drumlax.
 

Akir

What's the Mystery Flavor?
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Moderator
#17
So I got to semis in the tournament (lost cuz of hax, but tbf I could have recovered if I kept my head) and am currently sitting on top of the ladder, so I must admit that I had fun with this format. I was meaning to post my thoughts earlier but I have been pretty busy. So I'll just post about a few mons and concepts I liked in the format and my thoughts. No sprites this time though rip


So it says in the analysis for Aerodactyl that the mon's main drawback is the lack of STAB, and that has been fixed and oh my god is Aero a pain. Outsped only by Electrode (so nothing), resists Extremespeed, hits extremely hard with Aeroblast, and excellent coverage makes Aero a brainless choice on every single one of my teams. This mon is absolutely perfect for the new offensive metagame, as resisting Espeed is a big deal and so is outspeeding and 2hkoing basically everything in the tier. Ironically Aero does struggle against some mons, as Rock Slide does not do enough damage a lot of the time and any mon that resists Aeroblast can potentially work as a check (although the best are things like Rhydon, Tyranitar, etc.) If you did not get the chance to try this mon out then you still have a few hours to try out Aero at its best.

A lot of people used Golem in the tournament, and I can only see that as people over-preparing for Mean Look + Perish Song. The reality of it is that Mean Look + Perish Song is just way too slow for the format. With Belly Drum and Aeroblast everywhere, there is just not enough time to sit there and wait the 4 turns needed to make it happen. Just...going for the KO is much easier now that it's an option. Mean Look is definitely worth considering for a ban though, since every Normal can use it + Baton Pass into setup mon. But only Mean Look.

Kinda surprised Dragonite was not used by anyone other than me and maybe 1 rando on the ladder. Extremely bulky mon with Aeroblast and Extremespeed, along with great special coverage and Haze if you were wanting something for Belly Drum users since Dragonite can actually survive a +6 Espeed from Snorlax (barely but no Spikes damage means it works if you play it safe). The only downside was the low-ish speed, but it still outspeeds the walls and some of the slower offensive mons. I also found that I always wanted to run a 5th move, and dearly missed whatever move I cut. Again, you still have a few hours if a usable Dragon in GSC appeals to you and you wanted to try it.

Belly Drum was everywhere. It is much easier to plan for it and try to beat your opponent to the punch than try to counter Belly Drum Spam. There are no solid counters, I tried. Snorlax is by far the best user still though, as the special bulk actually let it set up on things in spite of losing 50% of its health in the process.

Moltres is overhyped but I still liked it as a novelty. Sacred Fire is definitely cool, but what it really comes down to is that Moltres is surprisingly easy to check. Aerodactyl comes to mind quickly, as do other mons like Vaporeon. Also i found that Moltres banks so much on Sacred Fire burns that not getting the burn can be damning. Still a cool mon but I found myself using Zapdos more.

Last mon in my hurried post I wanna talk about is Exeggutor, who is still the best utility mon in the entire tier bless its heart. Spore only made it better at its job and was the second brainless choice I made for teams. Even in a tier where Aeroblast was everywhere, the ability to check Waters and a crapton of other mons so easily makes it a mainstay for all of my builds. Just run Tyranitar with it to check Flying and you have yourself a pretty neat defensive core that actually works in the format. If you wanted to try Exeggutor + Tyranitar, you still have a bit of time.

Overall, this tier was a clusterfuck but it was an absolute blast to play. I really wish I made a post sooner but sometimes life does that. I just wanted to archive some of my thoughts before the ladder is taken down and say that the ladder was waaaaaaay too dead for such a fun format. Seriously, this ladder was the first ladder I have laughed until I cried playing just from all of the shenanigans. You all really missed out.
 

Isa

CHINGUYA
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Global Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
#18
I ran (lum) golem in the lead spot to get spikes and get the boom down. It can also check aero well via resisting its stab.

Haze gengar was neat too.