1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Gurdurr Discussion

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Cherub Agent, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,084
    [​IMG]

    Base Stats: 85 | 105 | 85 | 40 | 50 | 40
    Abilities: Guts / Sheer Force / Iron Fist

    Well, we're here to discuss Gurdurr, which in my opinion is simply the most solid and reliable Pokemon in NU. Ignore the base stats at the top; they don't do Trollface here any justice, especially when backed by Eviolite. Gurdurr plays exactly the same as his big brother: a very powerful boosting tank of a Pokemon that can easily take hits and dish them out.

    Gurdurr
    Item: Eviolite
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Att / 4 Def
    - Bulk Up
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Ice Punch / Payback

    This is Gurdurr's bread-and-butter set, that can slice straight through our beloved metagame. Bulk Up is the perfect setup move for Gurdurr, as it allows it boost its Attack to tremendous levels. Gurdurr doesn't need to limit himself to one Bulk Up though, it will often manage to nab two or three. Drain Punch and Mach Punch are both STAB moves that provide tremendous utility: Drain Punch gives a very solid hit on the opponent and restores Gurdurr's HP in the process, whereas Mach Punch allows Gurdurr to pick off faster opponents. For example, if Gurdurr has nabbed a Bulk Up boost, and a Sawk comes in, wanting to Close Combat Gurdurr, Gurdurr can Drain Punch on the first turn, restoring much of its HP in the process and then pick off Sawk with Mach Punch, thus avoiding another Close Combat. Mach Punch also allows Gurdurr to revenge kill powerful offensive behemoths such as Sawsbuck, Cinccino and Absol. Speaking of Absol, Gurdurr is probably the best counter available to it, since it only fears the rare SD boosted Psycho Cut (and can circumvent this with Mach Punch). Stone Edge lets Gurdurr smack around the incredibly annoying Rotom-S, as it can comfortably survive an Air Slash. Payback is also a fine option, as it lets Gurdurr comfortably defeat Misdreavus. However, it's been nerfed from last gen, and no longer has doubled powe on incoming foes. It also remains at 50 BP when facing Pokemon such as Musharna and Duosion, which is simply horrible.

    An alternate EV spread is useable; however I find that max Attack benefits Gurdurr a lot more, since it's too weak without a boost, and even after a Bulk Up its power is less than magnificent. I suppose it has some utility when facing powerful special attackers such as Magmortar, but the max Attack set can easily take it on even if it doesn't have a Bulk Up under its belt. Fire Blast will do around 70%, and Gurdurr can follow up with the Drain-Mach Punch combo. This Gurdurr set really appreciates teammates that can remove bulky Psychic-types. Pokemon such as Exeggutor, Musharna and Duosion can crap all over Gurdurr and take it out in one shot with a powerful Psychic. Dark-types therefore are brillinat partners for Gurdurr, as they can come in on Psychic with impunity. Skuntank and Absol are chief among these: Skuntank can guarantee the removal of these Pokemon with Taunt, Pursuit, Sucker Punch and Crunch, whereas Absol can easily shred through them or set up a Swords Dance for a sweep of its own. Gurdurr also has a lot of trouble with the extremely bulky Tangela. Magmortar is an excellent switchin to Tangela, thanks to Vital Spirit and a Grass-type resistance, and can keep offensive pressure with its nuclear Fire Blasts.

    B2W2 Edit: Gurdurr has now gained access to the elemental punches, and RestTalk. Ice Punch provides fantastic coverage with Gurdurr's Fighting-type STAB, and is a more reliable move than Rock Slide or Stone Edge against Flying-types such as Rotom-S and Braviary. Not to mention it also hits Golurk super effectively, who could otherwise wall Gurdurr. Amoonguss can still handle Gurdurr very well, but it certainly doesn't enjoy facing a +1 Gurdurr with Sleep Clause active. Keep in mind that Gurdurr can also reliably check monstrous physical threats in Zangoose, Cinccino and Absol. Gurdurr not only has the power to KO them with Mach Punch after a tiny bit of residual damage, but it also has the bulk to actually switch in, something that few other Pokemon can boast. Just... keep it away from Zangoose's Facade. That hurts. On the plus side, Zangoose will continually weaken itself with Toxic Orb, thus providing the residual damage necessary for Gurdurr to OHKO with Mach Punch. The ability to take on another vicious anti-metagame Pokemon, Klang, is just a bonus. Another interesting thing to note is that Gurdurr now also has access to RestTalk. Great bulk, combined with the ability to hit 50% harder while asleep could be an interesting concept that I will have to try out. Drain Punch also provides reliable healing while asleep. Gurdurr could even go with a CroDurr set, forgoing Ice Punch and using Rest, Sleep Talk, Bulk Up and Drain Punch. A Pursuit user is required for this set though.

    So go out and try Gurdurr! It's my favourite NU Pokemon, and can often take out 3 Pokemon in a match if played correctly. I'd also like some feedback on the SubPunch set, a set I've not personally tried out yet, but I hope one of you might have! Please share your experiences with Gurdurr, come up with teammates, other counters, etc.
  2. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2010
    Messages:
    1,644
    I love Gurdurr. Really love it. Ever since I first got my hands on Conkeldurr and that amazing MachDrain combo, It's been my favorite Fighting-type.

    Gurdurr is crazy useful in NU right now, as its Mach Punch is great for taking on so many top threats, such as Jynx, Sawsbuck, Cinccino, ect. A strong Fighting-type move is a great tool to have, as it breaks through those hardy walls that give a lot of Pokemon trouble, such as Probopass, Regirock, even Tangela (who is doing nothing to Gurdurr in return if you've sacced something to Sleep Powder). Sawk and Gurdurr are really the only viable Fighting-types in NU, sadly, and Gurdurr is so much more reliable than Sawk.

    Although, when did we switch from the 252 HP / 252 SpD EV spread to the 252 HP / 252 Atk one?

    Another thing I like about Gurdurr is how well it deals with status. Toxic Spikes are almost a liability for the opponent if you have Gurdurr on your team (switch it into a single layer to avoid toxic poisoning) but I haven't seen as many people using Toxic Spikes recently, for some reason.

    Has anyone tried a Flame Orb set?

    Gurdurr @ Flame Orb
    Adamant
    Guts
    252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD

    -Drain Punch
    -Mach Punch
    -Rock Slide / Stone Edge / Bulk Up
    -Payback / Bulk Up

    This set has great immediate power and an instant status immunity-which is cool for blocking Lovely Kisses and Sleep Powders. Gurdurr has the equivalent of an Attack stat of 508 once the Orb kicks in, and the powerful Drain Punch provides more than enough recovery to make up for the residual damage. It can also run Bulk Up in place of a coverage move. The only problem with this set is the lack of Eviolite, and bulk. Come to think of it, I think I might have run this set with some Speed EVs (taken out of HP) for beating certain threats.

    A question for everyone. Which coverage move do you use on the Bulk Up set? Payback? Rock Slide? Stone Edge? I think that Payback's usefulness has been declining ever since the tier shifts (departure of Mesprit), and some Psychic-types, namely Musharna, Exeggutor, and kinda Gardevoir can beat it regardless of the coverage move. Does the extra power of Stone Edge make it a better choice than Rock Slide? Or does the awful PP and accuracy make Rock Slide the better choice?

    Also, is the new 252 Atk spread more efficient overall than the 252 SpD spread? Do you find that it can still tank hits comfortably with 252 HP EVs and Eviolite?
  3. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,084
    Generally, I think that Stone Edge is always the better Rock-type move, simply because Gurdurr won't be flinching diddly-squat. The higher base power really makes a difference too against Pokemon such as Altaria.

    I would say it is. Gurdurr lacks a lot of power when using the SpD spread, and as I stated, it can still survive one of the most powerful special attacks in NU (Magmortar's LO Fire Blast) and heal off the damage with Drain Punch. Max attack investment also means that Gurdurr can switch in to Pokemon such as Sawsbuck and Cinccino and immediately revenge kill them with Mach Punch, as it will do noticeably less damage without investment.

    The Flame Orb set is certainly interesting, but the lack of bulk means that Gurdurr will no longer be able to switch in and out so easily, ergo it won't pose as much of a threat. Gurdurr has the build of a tank, I'd leave the more offensive approach to Pokemon like Sawk, but I can't deny that the powerful Drain and Mach Punches without need for setup are something it has over its Karate brethren, and that DOES distinguish it.
  4. Full2Half

    Full2Half

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    195
    Gurdurr really is great, ive been using it with a mixrott and scarfccino and it gets the best of everything that isnt exeggutor
  5. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,704
    Gurdurr is amazing. Its physical bulk is incredible, it has Guts, priority in Mach Punch, and is powerful itself. I'm starting to use it a lot more now.

    The spread with 252 Attack EV's is much better than Special Defense, imo. It allows Gurdurr to actually be able to hurt stuff before it boosts. Gurdurr has little business trying to beat special threats anyways. A Mach Punch that can actually hurt stuff is useful as well, especially with all of the threats running around that are weak to it.

    Basically, running 252 Attack EV's over Special Defense trades the ability to laugh at a lot of the special threats to actually be able to hurt stuff before you boost. It also helps you deal with physical attackers -- which are more common than special attackers in NU -- better.

    The Flame Orb set looks pretty interesting, but part of what makes Gurdurr so great is the fact that it can tank lots of hits well. With Flame Orb, Gurdurr can't do that nearly as well. That's especially bad for a Pokemon that's as slow as Gurdurr, but at least it has a much stronger Mach Punch.

    Lately I've been testing out SubPunch Gurdurr. I'm using Substitute / Focus Punch / Mach Punch / Rock Slide. So far it's pretty good; I wouldn't call it better than Bulk Up, but it's still useful. Focus Punch hits very hard, and Substitute is useful for scouting. I wish I could use Drain Punch on Gurdurr, but there isn't any room for it on the set. SubPunch will probably be better once Iron Fist is out. No one dears trying to status Gurdurr. The only problem is that now you can't just switch Gurdurr into status such as Misdreavus' Will-O-Wisp.
  6. ChaoticaMortis

    ChaoticaMortis

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2011
    Messages:
    518
    One Pokemon that Gurdurr will always have trouble with is Amoonguss (and Vileplume to a lesser extent).

    [​IMG] VS. [​IMG]

    252 Atk Gurdurr (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 252 HP/140 Def Amoonguss (+Def) : 13.66% - 16.2%
    10-13 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    252 Atk Gurdurr (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 252 HP/140 Def Amoonguss (+Def) : 24.31% - 28.7%
    5-6 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    0 SpAtk Amoonguss Giga Drain vs 252 HP/4 SpDef Eviolite Gurdurr: 21.93% - 25.94%
    4-5 hits to KO

    As you can see, Gurdurr isn't going to do too much to the Mushroom of Doom. Even if you've gotten Bulk Up boosts, Amoonguss can just use Clear Smog to nullify them. Drain Punch will be giving you negligible healing, so your recovery is practically gone as well. You also need to take in the extra healing Amoonguss will be getting from Giga Drain into account to really see how screwed Gurdurr is against one of these things. You'd think that Stone Edge beats Amoonguss one-on-one, but you have to remember that Gurdurr will not be recovering every turn, and Amoonguss will be (with Leftovers AND Giga Drain).

    The only problem I've found with Amoonguss is that more often than not Effect Spore will activate and give Gurdurr an attack boost, but since Poison is also going to chip away at his health and Sleep is well...sleep, the only negative side effect would be Paralysis (which still isn't that difficult to deal with).

    Amoonguss is hands-down the best Gurdurr counter in the tier. Hell, even if it couldn't wear Gurdurr down it could just put it to sleep with Spore.

    [​IMG] VS. [​IMG]

    252 Atk Gurdurr (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 252 HP/208 Def Vileplume (+Def) : 13.56% - 16.1%
    10-14 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    252 Atk Gurdurr (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 252 HP/208 Def Vileplume (+Def) : 24.29% - 28.81%
    5-6 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    48 SpAtk Vileplume Giga Drain vs 252 HP/4 SpDef Eviolite Gurdurr: 26.47% - 31.28%
    4 hits to KO

    For the most part, Vileplume shrugs off Gurdurr's attacks just as well as Amoonguss, and her main set has access to Moonlight, allowing her to have much more reliable recovery. Her Giga Drain is also fairly stronger (although it will still require multiple hits to kill Gurdurr). The problem is that she lacks Clear Smog, which means Gurdurr will be able to get a few boosts in. If she uses Sleep Powder instead of Moonlight, however, she can easily get most of Gurdurr's health with Giga Drain before she'll take any damage from him. Effect Spore can also kick in when you don't want it to, but usually it helps more than it hurts.

    Flying Pokemon are great partners to Gurdurr because most of his counters are part Grass. Braviary, Swellow, and Rotom-S can all handle Grass Pokemon. Another odd teammate that some might not have thought of is Murkrow.
    I'm just speculating, but Murkrow looks pretty damn good with Gurdurr. Its Dark typing allows it to nullify Psychic attacks aimed at Gurdurr, and its LO Attacker set has Brave Bird and Heat Wave, which do a number to Grass Pokemon. Another cool factor to take into consideration is Insomnia, which allows Murkrow a safe switch into any Sleep moves aimed at Gurdurr.
    Gurdurr can also handle any Rock Pokemon in the tier that tries to come in on Murkrow.

    Various Murkrow calcs:
    Show Hide
    252 Atk Life Orb Murkrow Brave Bird vs 252 HP/140 Def Amoonguss (+Def) : 90.28% - 106.25%
    43.75% chance to OHKO

    252 Atk Life Orb Murkrow Brave Bird vs 252 HP/208 Def Vileplume (+Def) : 90.68% - 106.78%
    43.75% chance to OHKO

    Against Specseggutor:
    4 SpAtk Life Orb Murkrow Heat Wave vs 132 HP/0 SpDef Exeggutor: 64.29% - 75.27%
    2 hits to KO

    252 Atk Life Orb Murkrow Brave Bird vs 132 HP/0 Def Exeggutor: 120.33% - 141.76%
    100% chance to OHKO

    252 Atk Life Orb Murkrow Brave Bird vs 252 HP/252 Def Eviolite Tangela (+Def) : 51.2% - 60.18%
    2 hits to KO

    4 SpAtk Life Orb Murkrow Heat Wave vs 252 HP/4 SpDef Eviolite Tangela: 66.47% - 78.44%
    2 hits to KO


    So, GurKrow looks like it could be a decent combination. Check it out.
  7. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,084
    OK, I'm reviving this thread, since I'm appalled that such an incredible Pokemon has slipped to #51 in usage. It has to be updated anyway now that Gurdurr has access to the elemental punches and RestTalk.

    Remind me, why is Gurdurr so low? APART from already being an absurdly solid Pokemon, you can use it to revenge kill 2 of the biggest threats in NU at the moment: Cinccino and Zangoose. These guys are ridiculously frail and will fall to an unboosted Mach Punch with a tiny bit of residual damage. Not to mention that Gurdurr certainly has the physical bulk to switch in as well.
  8. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    518
    If you don't really like the bulk up set, I encourage people to use knock off on gurdurr. Gurdurr can often wreck entire teams without bulk up once his specific counters have been delt with and knock off helps deal with all sorts of eviolite users that counter him such as misdreavus and tangela It can also remove choice bands on players that go straight to the point and switch-in braviary or golurk. Best of all is removing incoming exeguttor's berry. EV's can then be set to physcial defence making gurdurr pretty damn bulky on that side.
  9. ChaoticaMortis

    ChaoticaMortis

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2011
    Messages:
    518
    Blame it more on the hype than anything else. People are using the things they're excited about rather than the still-viable Pokemon they've already had plenty of experience with. Amoonguss still hard-counters Gurdurr and it's everywhere right now, so this also contributes to his fall in usage.

    I'm not sure how good a RestTalk set is going to be. Frankly, I've never liked the strategy, and find it too luck-based to rely on. Elemental Punches are definitely cool though, although I'm not sure how much better they'd be over Stone Edge / Payback, which are already fantastic coverage options.

    Also, in regards to my last post in this thread (so many months ago), I'd have to say that Vileplume probably can't do very well against Gurdurr anymore. Ice Punch would probably be too much for Vile to handle.

    EDIT:
    Not necessarily. Mine still runs Clear Smog, and mine will still give Gurdurr a run for its money.
  10. Annoyer

    Annoyer =)~

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    656
    Before B2W2, I've never been a big fan of Gurdurr. Everytime I used it, it did nothing exceptional. But now, I decided to put it on one of my teams, and it is absolutely amazing. It can easily destroy teams and has saved me from many losses. Also, a lot of Amoonguss users are running Sludge Bomb over Clear Smog or Hidden Power over Clear Smog. Therefore, Gurdurr can now set up on Amoonguss for free. Ice Punch is probably the best option since it still hits Flying types super-effectively and it hits Grass types such as Amoonguss and Golurk super-effectively. Payback is pretty terrible considering its not even slower than Musharna and doesn't help against Poison types. I can't wait for Iron Fist to be released since Banded Gurdurr might actually be a very good revenge killer / wallbreaker.
  11. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Salon Maidenis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,346
    Amoonguss takes 48.61% - 57.41% from a +1 Gurdurr Ice Punch, meaning it cannot switch in safely if Gurdurr has already set up. Even if it does come in before a boost, I'm pretty sure Gurdurr can still beat it if Amoonguss has already slept something. So yeah, Amoonguss is kind of a shaky counter to Gurdurr and I have no idea how its usage is so low. Don't even get me started on Alomomola; all it can do is Toxic Gurdurr and hope to Wish stall it. A good Gurdurr player will just keep setting up to +4 or +5 and Drain Punch Alomomola for the OHKO, which will allow you to regenerate most of your HP back lost from Toxic. You'll probably have to switch out by then but at least you've taken Alomomola out.

    Edit: Forgot about Clear Smog on Amoonguss; I never use it because it's weak and unreliable against Substitute users, but if other people use it I guess Amoonguss could be considered as a Gurdurr counter.
  12. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,084
    Excellent, let's keep the discussion going.

    Knock Off certainly seems like it could cripple MANY Gurdurr counters, but Gurdurr has difficulty finding a free slot. I for one wouldn't want to give up Bulk Up...

    RestTalk is just theoretical at the moment, but the Guts boost makes it seem effective to me. Being able to totally not give a damn about Amoonguss is cool too, although the lack of priority sucks.

    And you're right, many Amoonguss don't run Clear Smog nowadays. Unfortunately, Garbodor do ;_;
  13. That TM87

    That TM87

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    3
    Great Counter

    i think the best counter to Gurdurr is actually a Swalot. now before you knock this down. think about it. Liquid ooze plus a good defensive typing makes Swalot a perfect counter to this guy in my opinion. i ran a Max HP Max defense swalot Bold nature and can freely switch into gurdurr all the time, with yawn/encore it does work.
  14. A Novel Idea

    A Novel Idea

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2006
    Messages:
    7
    Swalot with a Rocky Helmet and Pain Split can probably cause some harm to Gurdurr, yes, but Garbodor can do it better and Spike, too.
  15. Zarco

    Zarco

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    168
    Gurdurr is brilliant. I'm a huge fan of the offensive BU set (it's pretty strong; drain+mach punch 2hkos Kadabra on switchin, for reference), but I also found a set I love pretty recently:

    Gurdurr@ Eviolite
    252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
    Impish (+Def, -SpAtk)
    Guts
    -Drain Punch
    -Ice Punch
    -Rest
    -Sleep Talk

    Without a doubt one of the best physicals walls I can find in NU. It's ridiculously bulky and only has a real weakness to Braviary in terms of NU physical attackers. It hits back pretty hard in return, too, especially if statused or using ResTalk. It's a real pain to take down if you don't 2HKO, and when played right absolutely walks all over a bunch of prominent Pokes (ex. Altaria, some Zangoose, rock-types, as a few admittedly poor examples)
  16. Aasgier

    Aasgier

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    493
    Gurdurr is a beast. I use it with the standard Bulk Up set, and with Ice Punch for coverage, and after a one or two Bulk Up boosts it justs wrecks house on the spot.

    It can also set up against many common walls (and using Toxic on it only causes Guts to activate), which is pretty useful.
  17. skylight

    skylight the cold never bothered me anyway
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1,497
    I really like to use Gurdurr but I don't really think I'm going to be using it much now mainly because Mushy is so much more useful now in general without Absol there to keep it in line. I just don't really think it can be as useful/needed with Mushy around and without it needing to take out Cinccino/Absol, and the fact that stall/defensive teams (with phazing) are more likely to be around it's just going to be harder for it to set up imo. Not that it can't set up but with psychic's as bigger threats and more outright offensive Pokemon (aka Sawk for example) needing to break defensive teams it just seems like Gurdurr has less of a purpose than it did before.
  18. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,084
    Right people, we were discussing on IRC and I think that this topic could use a bump. We're in a new metagame and Gurdurr's usage is lower than it should be. Some things for you to consider:

    1) Gurdurr understandably has seen a drop in usage since Absol and Cinccino left the tier, and Zangoose's usage has droppee

    2) Note that in THIS metagame, Musharna is far less common, and it's not the Calm Mind set anymore; it's the pivot set that's the rage nowadays. So its not like its giving Musharna a free setup anymore

    3) Gurdurr loves loves loves the drops. Scolipede really cannot touch it, and if free setup fodder. Stone Edge or Rock slide decimste it, and Ice Punch beats it before it beats Gurdurr. Primeape is obviously a joke, Close Combat does pittance to Gurdurr and he just heals it all off with a Drain Punch on the reduced Defense. Jynx cannot switch in to Gurdurr at all, as Mach Punch KOs after Bulk Up, Drain Punch or a previous Mach Punch atter Stealth Rock. And lol guess how Munchlax fares.

    How does it fare against the metagame though? What sets/coverage moves have you been using/
  19. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Salon Maidenis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,346
    theoretically gurdurr should work very well in this metagame, but it just hasn't shown up with the results everytime i use it. i'll share some of my thoughts of why this is

    • ghosts are even more common in this metagame than the previous one, and although gurdurr can beat them, it will usually be crippled to the point where it can't accomplish much else.
    • it walls the ever popular scolipede but it can't prevent it from setting up on it either, and if it uses stone edge it gets beaten by the most used pokemon, golurk. garbodor is in the same boat except gurdurr is even worse off due to rocky helmet and aftermath.
    • the metagame is even more offense based than last time, meaning gurdurr will have less chances to set up.
    • although musharna is no longer used as much, people are more aware of fighting-types than before due to the presence of primeape and will likely have an answer to gurdurr
  20. Jean mi

    Jean mi

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2012
    Messages:
    231
    I use a physically defensive pelipper and is a perfect counter to Gurrdurr (and Sawk as well). It resists fighting type moves, is not weak to ice punch and hurt it badly with Air slash/Hurricane and get its health back with roost. It's a very underrated physical wall !
  21. InsaneDragoniteHD

    InsaneDragoniteHD

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2013
    Messages:
    123
    I really like Gurdurr so far in this meta because he's a very viable and very good NFE to be using in this tier right now :)
    His base 105 attack means he will be denting a lot of holes into the various normal types in the tier, while getting HP recovery back via drain punch. Also, with that Iron Fist boost, your attacks will be doing 1.5x more, meaning that you will be getting more KO's on various pokemon like Carracosta or Kangaskhan,but Carracosta and Kangaskhan can live at least a +1 Drain Punch or Mach Punch.(Dunno about +2). Also, base 85 defense means that with an Eviolite, Gurdurr can take physical hits decently, allowing you to get back the damage given via drain punch. Also, you can run Guts on Gurdurr, which will allow you to switch in on the Will o Wisp or the predicted status move and then gain an attack boost from it, therefore allowing you deal more damage than before. Guts Gurdurr can throw off Misdreavus hoping to cripple Gurdurr with their Will o Wisp or even pokemon that go for the toxic to shut down Gurdurr. But not all is in it for Gurdurr. Its really low speed means that it will be struggling against a lot of faster mons in the tier, meaning that faster threats like Jynx or Rotom-Fan are going to be a threat because Jynx can KO with Psychic if Gurdurr is not at 100% health,pretty much ending Gurdurr's offensive lifespan. Also, having pitiful special defense bites Gurdurr in the ass pretty hard because that means that many of the special attackers in the tier can end Gurdurr's days in about 1-2 hits, if running Eviolite. So, Gurdurr has to watch out for the special mons that run rampant across the tier, meaning that he will have to be paired with possibly a special wall.

    Also, most of the Gurdurr sets are shut down completely by Misdreavus herself,because she is immune to every move minus Ice Punch and can either burn and taunt it to prevent Gurdurr from setting up, or it can start setting up nasty plots because Gurdurr will be forced to go for the Bulk Up in order to be doing decent damage. Also, any pokemon that resists fighting can also be a problem for Gurdurr, since Golbat is a good counter to Gurdurr as he resists every move bar the ice punch and can take a hit and go for the stab Brave Bird if it has it. Pelipper is also another pokemon the Gurdurr can not take down, mainly because 1.) Pelipper is not weak to ice and 2.) Pelipper resists all of Gurdurr's moves and can go for the air slash/hurricane, ending Gurdurr's days immeadiately. Gurdurr does struggle against flying types that 4x resist it and those ghost types,minus Golurk, but it is a good pokemon none the less.

    Also, Mandibuzz is another problem for Golurk,because it can take an ice punch and proceed to Roost stall it out or Toxic stall.(I think)
  22. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,084
    Fact is, Gurdurr can easily run Guts (you can still bluff Iron Fist and hope that Misdreavus won't have the balls to WoW you) and Payback if it wants to deal with the Ghost-types (as Payback will be hitting all of the relevant ones for 100 base power). Golbat and Pelipper to beat Gurdurr, but Golbat does have to watch out for Guts Ice Punch, as between Stealth Rock, the boost to Ice Punch from Guts or Iron Fist and Brave Bird recoil, as well as the lack of Leftovers, Golbat can end up in trouble. Pelipper does beat it quite handily though. Mandibuzz really isn't a problem for Golurk, as it uses Foul Play and Toxic, whih Gurdurr resists and which can also power him up. When Mandibuzz is not Roosting Gurdurr can Ice Punch for the super effective hit, and while it is Roosting it can smack it with a super effective Drain Punch n_n
  23. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,704
    two questions regarding gurdurr i'd be interested to hear answered from some people:

    1) do you prefer using bulk up or knock off

    2) do you generally use guts or iron fist

    i feel like both of these could go either way because each of these options are pretty solid. i used to generally go with bulk up iron fist, which is very good vs offensive teams, but now i am leaning more towards knock off so i can accomplish something vs musharna / misdreavus.
  24. vyomov

    vyomov

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    875
    Has anybody tried the Sheer Force set? It can easily surprise with Sheer Force+LO Ice Punch which gets past Mandibuzz:
    252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Gurdurr Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Mandibuzz: 250-296 (59.1 - 69.97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

  25. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,704
    gurdurr does not need sheer force to get past mandibuzz. gurdurr is slower and hits mandibuzz hard with drain punch when it roosts, while mandibuzz can not do much back as it uses foul play over brave bird most of the time. iron fist/guts provide too much over sheer force for it to be worth using, especially with life orb which throws gurdurr's great bulk away.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)