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Gyarados [4F]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Erodent, Oct 25, 2009.

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  1. Erodent

    Erodent

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,886
    Status: Under Construction

    Changes:
    • "Team Options" in blue
    • I rewrote the "Offensive Dragon Dancer"
    • I trimmed the "BulkyGyara" set, (team options were done by Chris is Me a while ago), made appropriate changes, and renamed it
    • I merged "Flail" and "SubBounce" into "Dragon Dance Substitute"
    • I rewrote "Rest + Sleep Talk"
    [​IMG]

    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/gyarados

    To Do:
    1. Offensive DD - Done
    2. Bulky DD - Done
    3. Substitute DD - Done
    4. Rest + Sleep Talk- Done
    5. Choice - Incomplete
    6. Other? - Incomplete
    7. Other Options - Incomplete
    8. EVs - Incomplete
    9. DD Numbers (Add link to first set) - Incomplete
    10. Opinion - Incomplete
    11. Counters - Incomplete
    Comments/thoughts:
    1. In the first set there is a link to the Dragon Dance Numbers section which I have yet to fill in. I'll do this eventually.
    2. I'm trying to make everything as short as possible, so Team Options specifically can be a little thin. If more is needed, do tell me; I can definitely add to the paragraphs.
    ------------------------------------------

    [SET]
    name: Dragon Dance Offensive
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Waterfall
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Bounce / Ice Fang / Earthquake
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>One of Pokemon's most celebrated Dragon Dancers returns to the fourth generation with the now physical Waterfall and some new tools in the form of Stone Edge, Bounce, and Ice Fang. With these potent attacking moves, solid all-around base stats, and Intimidate, a Gyarados sweep is not uncommon. Dragon Dance is the move that initiates this set; the EVs are designed such that Gyarados outruns Jolly Tyranitar before a Dragon Dance and Jolly Weavile after a Dragon Dance. Gyarados' STAB Waterfall cannot be neglected, fending off bulky Ground-types such as Hippowdon and Gliscor should they attempt to phaze Gyarados out. Stone Edge works alongside Waterfall to provide extensive coverage, while eliminating Zapdos, Salamence, and opposing Gyarados. The final move expands Gyarados' attacking flexibility. Life Orb Bounce will OHKO 136 HP / 156 Def Timid Starmie and 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Celebi most of the time with Stealth Rock in play, while functioning as Gyarados' strongest available move. Ice Fang can be used to deal super effective damage to Breloom and Celebi, but Bounce is generally the better choice, and Stone Edge is already there for the Dragon/Flying hybrids anyway. Earthquake, however, OHKOes most Metagross and all Magnezone. Whichever option you choose provides extremely broad type coverage, though, and the process of selecting which move to use should depend on which foes you have problems with.</p>

    <p>A Life Orb is recommended on a completely offensive EV spread, as it allows Gyarados to OHKO or 2HKO most OUs (with the exception of the bulkiest walls like Skarmory and Forretress). Leftovers, however, is viable on alternative EV spreads such as 252 Atk / 184 Spe / 72 HP, designed to outrun positive base 115s, mainly Starmie, after a Dragon Dance. Leftovers is also favorable in situations where Life Orb, along with other forms of residual damage, would decrease Gyarados' health all too quickly. Finally, the difference between an Adamant or Jolly nature lies mainly in attacking power and the Speed that Gyarados reaches after a Dragon Dance or two; for more information, consult the Dragon Dance Numbers section to tweak Gyarados' Speed EVs as you see fit. A noteworthy opponent that Gyarados outpaces and OHKOes after a Dragon Dance if it is Jolly is its nemesis Jolteon, and this should be considered when deciding a nature.</p>

    <p>After a Dragon Dance, not many Pokemon can withstand Gyarados' obliterating power. However, it is during the set-up process that Gyarados encounters problems. Bulky Water-types that invest many EVs into Defense, including Suicune and Vaporeon, can stop Gyarados cold, especially if they wield HP Electric. The bulkiest of physical walls, such as Skarmory, Forretress, and Dusknoir, can phaze, Explode on, and burn it respectively, putting Gyarados' Dragon Dancing journey at peril. Other Pokemon that fail to be 2HKOed or outpace Gyarados after two to three Dragon Dances can be difficult to get around. Examples include Cresselia, Latias, Gengar, Rotom-A (all with Choice Scarf), Celebi (should Bounce or Ice Fang be absent), and Swampert; the former four can threaten Gyarados with an Electric-type move, while the latter two can paralyze or phaze it, respectively.</p>

    <p>Because Offensive Gyarados is typically found on, as its name may indicate, offensive teams, it will often appreciate powerful and hard-hitting partners. Life Orb Starmie can OHKO Skarmory and Forretress, while 2HKOing Vaporeon and Suicune, essentially getting rid of four of Gyarados' top counters. Choice Specs Rotom-A accomplishes tasks similar to Starmie, and can use Shadow Ball to scare Cresselia and Celebi away. Having Scizor in your party makes Choice Scarf Latias, Rotom-A and Gengar think twice before switching in lest their lives be lost through Pursuit. The same applies to Tyranitar, whose presence signifies trouble for the three aforementoned foes, Dusknoir, Cresselia, and even some Celebi. Life Orb Gengar is also a stellar Gyarados partner, OHKOing Rotom and Latias with Shadow Ball, while denting Cresselia, Celebi, and Dusknoir in the process. Finally, Life Orb Gyarados does hate harmful weather effects, so quickly deal with the likes of Hippowdon and Abomasnow before they slowly but surely chip off Gyarados' health!</p>

    [SET]
    name: Dragon Dance Bulky
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Taunt
    move 3: Waterfall
    move 4: Return / Bounce
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Bulky Gyarados aims to maximize the advantages of Gyarados's unique typing, respectable defenses, and Intimidate to set up on and KO a variety of threats, including many variants of Heatran, Lucario, and Scizor. The EVs balance out Gyarados' defensive and offensive capabilities. 156 HP EVs ensure that Gyarados is never 2HKOed by Timid Life Orb Heatran's Fire Blast, even after Stealth Rock damage and Leftovers. 96 Defense EVs ensure that Scizor will never 2HKO Gyarados with a Choice Band Quick Attack after sandstorm, Stealth Rock damage, and Leftovers. 184 Speed EVs outruns Jolly Tyranitar before a Dragon Dance and +Speed Starmie and Azelf after a Dragon Dance. The remaining EVs are placed in Attack to increase Gyarados' damage output.</p>

    <p>Return does consistent damage to everything that resists Water, while enjoying 100% accuracy. It still sports excellent coverage as it's only resisted by Empoleon and the rare Shedinja. Bounce has some merit as an auxillary attack, for several reasons. First, it provides Gyarados with the best possible neutral coverage in two attacks, as only Empoleon and Lanturn resist the combination. The move can also come in useful for buying an extra turn of Leftovers recovery. Most importantly, it has a 30% chance of paralysis; this support can be extremely useful for most teams. Stone Edge can be used in this slot to better eliminate Zapdos, but outside of Zapdos, few Pokémon are hit harder by it. Earthquake is another attacking option, as it has consistent accuracy and does more damage to Magnezone and Empoleon.</p>

    <p>Unlike most Gyarados sets, this takes on Skarmory and Celebi fairly well. Even without Intimidate, Skarmory isn't doing much with Drill Peck, and Taunt prevents Gyarados from being thwarted off by Whirlwind. Celebi can only manage a Grass Knot at best, which does 34.86% - 41.35% to this Gyarados. This gives Gyarados the opportunity to Bounce, and when combined with the extra help of Leftovers on the Bounce turn, Grass Knot will not 2HKO, even with Stealth Rock in play. Meanwhile, Bounce after one Dragon Dance will do 71.29% - 84.65% to Celebi, enough damage to pick it off with Waterfall and KO Celebi weakened by residual damage.</p>

    <p>This set will work significantly better by packing an anti-Stealth Rock lead on your team. Choice Scarf Jirachi is fairly reliable at stopping Aerodactyl, Azelf, and Mamoswine leads, making it a great partner for Bulky Gyarados. Gyarados also resists all of Jirachi's weaknesses. Other leads, such as Taunt / Stealth Rock Aerodactyl or Azelf, can accomplish the same task while supporting Gyarados with Stealth Rock. A Rapid Spinner, like Forretress, can be useful, though most Rapid Spinners share the common counter of Rotom with Gyarados.</p>

    <p>Bulky Gyarados is a great lure for Electric- and Rock-type attacks, as well as bulky status-inducing counters. Gyarados can beat the latter with Taunt, but not the former, so packing Pokémon that can set up on Rock and Electric attacks is reccomended. Ground-type attackers like Flygon and Swampert are ideal as they resist both. Electric-type attacks can often be set up on by Jolteon or Electivire (the latter forming the infamous "GyaraVire" combo), and Rock-type attacks by Lucario or Metagross.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Dragon Dance Substitute
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Waterfall
    move 4: Flail
    item: Liechi Berry / Salac Berry
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>In order to exploit the effects of a pinch Berry and establish protection against frustrating status effects and a range of reasonably weak attacks, Gyarados can set up a Substitute and begin Dragon Dancing from behind one. This set takes advantage of the safety net that Substitute may cast upon Gyarados, preventing untimely priority and status moves from putting a Gyarados sweep to a hindering halt. Dragon Dance and Substitute are particularly self-explanatory moves, and Waterfall is the unforgotten STAB-boosted move on all Gyarados sets. The fourth move choice, Flail, is important to understand. By Substituting down to exactly 1 HP, Flail becomes a 200 base power move. Together, Waterfall and Flail are resisted only by Empoleon and Shedinja, so type coverage is not a problem. The execution, however, can be difficult, but when set up, the hard work taken to play this set will surely pay off.

    <p>The EV spread of 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe activates Gyarados' pinch Berry at exactly 1 HP. This means that at full health, Gyarados must set up five Substitutes before the pinch Berry will activate. While Liechi Berry helps Gyarados score easier OHKOs on opponents such as Celebi and Scizor, Salac Berry helps Gyarados outpace the myriad Choice Scarf users wreaking havoc all over OU.</p>

    <p>Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Abomasnow are the deadliest threats to this set and should be eliminated before Gyarados is even revealed. Swampert can deal with the former two, while helping Gyarados out defensively, and Abomasnow can be destroyed by Infernape. Infernape can also Close Combat Tyranitar to OHKO it; mixed versions can even go so far as to use Grass Knot on Hippowdon. Don't forget Dugtrio, who can trap and OHKO Tyranitar and Abomasnow with Earthquake and Stone Edge respectively. Rain support coming from Kingdra or Ludicolo can also be beneficial, as it powers up Gyarados' Waterfall and doesn't reduce its health at all.</p>

    <p>Empoleon and Shedinja are the next best counters to this set. Shedinja can be dealt with by setting up entry hazards, but Empoleon is more difficult to contend with. Long-time Gyarados counters, including Skarmory and Forretress, continue to haunt this set with their high Defense, and the former can phaze Gyarados away! Bulky Water-types, namely Suicune and Vaporeon, return to repel Gyarados' attacks yet again. Toxic Spikes harms these Water-types, chipping off their health slowly, while Gyarados can simply Substitute down and wait for the poison to feast on their health. When Gyarados has finally Substituted down to 1 HP, it can blast them away with its overpowering Flail. Tentacruel can be a nuisance by removing Toxic Spikes, but it will rarely switch into Gyarados due to its fear of Earthquake.</p>

    <p>Magnezone is one of the best partners to this set. Gyarados not only resists all of Magnezone's weaknesses, but the reverse is true as well. In terms of offensive synergy, Magnezone traps those wretched Steel-types whose existence cripples Gyarados, including Skarmory, Forretress, and Empoleon. Magnezone is also a suitable partner to do away with Water-types who have less Special Defense than Defense. Life Orb Heatran can switch in on Ice Beams and Grass Knots aimed at Gyarados and use Fire Blast to scorch Steel-types, or Hidden Power Grass to dispose of unsuspecting Swampert, Milotic, and similar Water-types. The perfect partner to set up Toxic Spikes would be Roserade, who immediately threatens Water-types with Leaf Storm and Sleep Powder. Roserade also resists Gyarados' Electric-type weakness, and, in turn, Gyarados resists Roserade's weakness to Fire-type attacks.</p>

    <p>If you are not tempted to use Flail, feel free to substitute (no pun intended) it for a different attacking option, such as Bounce or Stone Edge. In this case, assume an EV spread of 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe. This makes Gyarados' HP divisible by four, allowing its pinch Berry to activate at exactly 25% health (three Substitutes are required) or less.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rest + Sleep Talk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Waterfall
    move 4: Dragon Dance / Stone Edge
    item: Liechi Berry / Salac Berry
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Gyarados is excellent at filling a defensive role in balanced and stall teams alike. This is made possible due to its commendable defenses and Intimidate. With Rest and Sleep Talk, Gyarados is able to replenish any health that it might have lost from opponents' attacks, the 1/4 damage it takes from Stealth Rock, or other forms of residual damage in general. Rest is particularly useful to free Gyarados off status effects, allowing it to have an easier time with the likes of Toxic Celebi and Will-O-Wisp Dusknoir. The reason for such heavy EV investment in HP and Defense is to allow Gyarados to become reliable check to a number common OU threats, including Lucario, Infernape, and Heatran.</p>

    <p>Waterfall provides Gyarados a STAB-boosted option to abuse when it is asleep. The final moveslot has a range of options, though. With Dragon Dance, Gyarados has a 1/3 chance of being able to boost its Attack and Speed while asleep. However, this can be rather risky, as Gyarados is left with only one attacking option; bulky Water-types are able to prey and set up on it effortlessly. Stone Edge broadens type coverage, hitting most Dragon- and Flying-types for super effective damage. If neither Dragon Dance nor Stone Edge appeals to you, Avalanche can also be used to hit Dragon-types and Celebi for more damage. Roar can also be used if your team lacks a phazer, but such a role is better left off to the likes of Skarmory and Hippowdon due to their higher Defense.</p>

    <p>248 HP EVs caps Gyarados' HP off at 393, allowing it to switch into Stealth Rock five times. 12 Speed EVs outrun base 80 Speed Pokemon that linger around the 200 Speed mark. Other EV spreads, including a specially defensive one, can also be employed to transform Gyarados into a double wall of sorts. A more offensive EV spread is 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe; Gyarados reaches 309 Speed after a Dragon Dance, enough to outrun positive-natured base 90 Speed Pokemon and most defensive variants of Zapdos.</p>

    <p>A problem that this set faces is the type coverage it lacks compared to other Gyarados sets. Choosing a moveset of Rest + Sleep Talk + Dragon Dance + Waterfall can be deadly, but is walled to death by Suicune, Vaporeon, and Celebi. All three can retaliate against Gyarados with their moves in some way. Choosing a moveset of Rest + Sleep Talk + Waterfall + Stone Edge solves this problem, but Gyarados often finds its attacks doing little-to-average damage. Opponents like Suicune and Breloom can take advantage of Gyarados' weak attacks and set up on it via Calm Mind or Substitute. Waterfall + Avalanche doesn't exactly solve brings more problems to the picture; in this case, foes like Empoleon and Cresselia will gladly come in on Gyarados and set up right in its face.</p>

    <p>To help Gyarados out, Blissey can stall out Suicune, Vaporeon, Cresselia, Empoleon, and even Celebi. In return, Gyarados fends off the Fighting-types that endanger Blissey's life. Toxic Spikes support can help it stall out bulky Water-types that lack an Electric-type move; an essential partner to set Toxic Spikes up is Roserade. Rotom-A can check some of Gyarados' counters well, including Dusknoir and Celebi. In selecting a teammate, attempting to aid Gyarados from the special defensive spectrum helps it immensely. If Rest + Sleep Talk Gyarados is used on stall teams, it will have no problem with this.</p>

    [Dragon Dance Numbers]

    <p>This section provides a useful reference to Gyarados' key "Dragon Dance Numbers", or precise EV investment needed to reach a certain Speed stat. This Speed stat is used to outrun a specific base Speed threat group.</p>

    <p>Notable opponents that should be taken into consideration include +Spe Starmie (topping off at 361 Speed), +Spe Jolteon (topping offat 394 Speed), and neutral Speed-natured Choice Scarf Rotom (topping off at 406 Speed).

    Code:
    <h3><a id="Dragon Dance Neutral Nature">Dragon Dance Numbers Neutral Nature</a></h3>
     
    <table class="sortable">
    <thead>
    <tr>
    <th>EVs Used </th>
    <th>Speed Hit </th>
    <th>Speed Hit After Dragon Dance </th>
    <th>+1 Outspeeds </th>
    </tr>
    </thead>
    <tbody>
    <tr>
    <td>8 Spe </td>
    <td>200 Spe </td>
    <td>300 Spe </td>
    <td>Neutral Base 100s </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>84 Spe </td>
    <td>219 Spe </td>
    <td>328 Spe </td>
    <td>Positive Base 100s </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>116 Spe</td>
    <td>227 Spe </td>
    <td>340 Spe </td>
    <td>Positive Base 105s </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>136 Spe </td>
    <td>232 Spe </td>
    <td>348 Spe </td>
    <td>Positive Base 108s </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>144 Spe </td>
    <td>234 Spe </td>
    <td>251 Spe </td>
    <td>Positive Base 110s </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>184 Spe </td>
    <td>244 Spe </td>
    <td>366 Spe </td>
    <td>Positive Base 115s </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>204 Spe </td>
    <td>249 Spe </td>
    <td>373 Spe </td>
    <td>Positive Base 120s </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>236 Spe </td>
    <td>257 Spe </td>
    <td>384 Spe </td>
    <td>Positive Base 125s </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>252 Spe </td>
    <td>261 Spe </td>
    <td>391 Spe </td>
    <td>Positive Base 127s </td>
    </tr>
    </tbody>
    </table>
    Code:
    <h3><a id="Dragon Dance Positive Nature">Dragon Dance Numbers Positive Nature</a></h3>
     
    <table class="sortable">
    <thead>
    <tr>
    <th>EVs Used </th>
    <th>Speed Hit </th>
    <th>Speed Hit After Dragon Dance </th>
    <th>+1 Outspeeds </th>
    </tr>
    </thead>
    <tbody>
    <tr>
    <td>8 Spe </td>
    <td>220 Spe </td>
    <td>330 Spe </td>
    <td>Positive Base 100's </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>36 Spe </td>
    <td>227 Spe </td>
    <td>340 Spe </td>
    <td>Positive Base 105s </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>52 Spe </td>
    <td>232 Spe </td>
    <td>348 Spe </td>
    <td>Positive Base 108s </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>60 Spe </td>
    <td>234 Spe </td>
    <td>351 Spe </td>
    <td>Positive Base 110s </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>96 Spe </td>
    <td>244 Spe </td>
    <td>366 Spe </td>
    <td>Positive Base 115s </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>116 Spe </td>
    <td>248 Spe </td>
    <td>373 Spe </td>
    <td>Positive Base 120s </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>144 Spe </td>
    <td>257 Spe </td>
    <td>384 Spe </td>
    <td>Positive Base 125s </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>156 Spe </td>
    <td>260 Spe </td>
    <td>388 Spe </td>
    <td>Positive Base 127s </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>168 Spe </td>
    <td>264 Spe </td>
    <td>396 Spe </td>
    <td>Positive Base 130s </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>220 Spe </td>
    <td>278 Spe </td>
    <td>417 Spe </td>
    <td>Positive Base 140s </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>252 Spe </td>
    <td>287 Spe </td>
    <td>430 Spe </td>
    <td>Positive Base 140s </td>
    </tr>
    </tbody>
    </table>
  2. mtr

    mtr

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Messages:
    1,773
    Pretty good work, this is just some stuff that I noticed.
  3. Roflmao23

    Roflmao23

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    55
    [Delete] or Correct;
    Add;
    Comments.


    [SET]
    name: Offensive Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Waterfall
    move 3: Stone Edge / Ice Fang
    move 4: Earthquake / Bounce / Ice Fang With the rise of Scizor's usage, Magnezone's usage went up too. Earthquake should be the first option.
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Jolly / Adamant Jolly lets you outspeed Timid Jolteon wich is extremely helpful.
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>One of Pokemon's most celebrated Dragon Dancers returns to the fourth generation with the now physical Waterfall and some new tools in the form of Stone Edge, Bounce, and Ice Fang. With these potent attacking moves, solid all-around base stats, and Intimidate, a Gyarados sweep is not uncommon. Dragon Dance is the move that initiates this set; the EVs are designed such that Gyarados outruns Jolly Tyranitar before a Dragon Dance and Jolly Weavile after a Dragon Dance. Gyarados' STAB Waterfall cannot be neglected, fending off bulky Ground-types such as Hippowdon and Gliscor should they attempt to phaze Gyarados out. Stone Edge works alongside Waterfall to provide extensive coverage, while eliminating Zapdos, Salamence, and opposing Gyarados. The final move expands Gyarados' attacking flexibility. Life Orb Bounce will OHKO 136 HP / 156 Def Timid Starmie and 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Celebi most of the time with Stealth Rock in play, while functioning as Gyarados' strongest available move. Ice Fang can be used to deal super effective damage to Breloom and Celebi, but Bounce is generally the better choice, and Stone Edge is already there for the Dragon/Flying hybrids anyway. Earthquake, however, OHKOs most Metagross and all Magnezone. Whichever option you choose provides extremely broad type coverage, though, and the process of selecting which move to use should depend on which foes you have problems with.</p>

    <p>A Life Orb is recommended on a completely offensive EV spread, as it allows Gyarados to OHKO or 2HKO most OUs (with the exception of the bulkiest walls like Skarmory and Forretress). Leftovers, however, is viable on alternative EV spreads such as 252 Atk / 184 Spe / 72 HP, designed to outrun positive base 115s, mainly Starmie, after a Dragon Dance. Leftovers is also favorable in situations where Life Orb, along with other forms of residual damage, would decrease Gyarados' health all too quickly. Finally, the difference between an Adamant or Jolly nature lies mainly in attacking power and the Speed that Gyarados reaches after a Dragon Dance or two; for more information, consult the Dragon Dance Numbers section to tweak Gyarados' Speed EVs as you see fit.</p> Sugest a Jolly 252 Atk / 90 Def / 168 EV spread, after a Dragon Dance it outspeeds Jolly Jolteon.

    <p>After a few Dragon Dances, not many Pokemon can withstand Gyarados' obliterating power, but it is during the set-up process that Gyarados encounters problems. Bulky Water-types that invest heavy EVs into Defense, including Suicune and Vaporeon, can stop Gyarados cold, especially if they wield HP Electric. The bulkiest of physical walls, such as Skarmory, Forretress, and Dusknoir, can phaze, Explode on, and burn it respectively, putting Gyarados' Dragon Dancing journey at peril. Other Pokemon that fail to be 2HKOed or outpace Gyarados after two to three Dragon Dances can be difficult to get around. Examples include Cresselia, Latias, Gengar, Rotom-A (all with Choice Scarf), Celebi (should Bounce or Ice Fang be absent), and Swampert; the former four can threaten Gyarados with an Electric-type move, while the latter two can paralyze or phaze it respectively.</p>

    <p>Because Offensive Gyarados is typically found on, as its name may indicate, offensive teams, it will often appreciate powerful and hard-hitting partners. Life Orb Starmie can OHKO Skarmory and Forretress, while 2HKOing Vaporeon and Suicune, essentially getting rid of four of Gyarados' top counters. Choice Specs Rotom-A accomplishes tasks similar to Starmie, and can use Shadow Ball to scare Cresselia and Celebi away. Having Scizor in your party makes Choice Scarf Latias, Rotom-A and Gengar think twice before switching in lest their lives be lost through Pursuit. The same applies to Tyranitar, whose presence signifies trouble for the three aforementoned foes, Dusknoir, Cresselia, and even some Celebi.</p> Mention Life Orb Gengar (or even Expert Belt), it OHKOs most of Gyarados counters, is extremely fast and powerfull and can switch attacks. Also if a Scizor Pursuits Gengar to death Gyarados has a chance to set up, this also happens with Rotom through.

    --------------------------------------

    Dragon Dance Bulky

    [SET]
    name: Dragon Dance Bulky
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Taunt
    move 3: Waterfall
    move 4: Return / Bounce
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Bulky Gyarados aims to maximize the advantages of Gyarados's unique typing, respectable defenses, and Intimidate to set up on and KO a variety of threats, including many variants of Heatran, Lucario, and Scizor. The EVs balance out Gyarados' defensive and offensive capabilities. 156 HP EVs ensure that Gyarados is never 2HKOed by Timid Life Orb Heatran's Fire Blast, even after Stealth Rock damage and Leftovers. 96 Defense EVs ensure that Scizor will never 2HKO Gyarados with a Choice Band Quick Attack after sandstorm, Stealth Rock damage, and Leftovers. 184 Speed EVs outruns Jolly Tyranitar before a Dragon Dance and +Speed Starmie and Azelf after a Dragon Dance. The remaining EVs are placed in Attack to increase Gyarados' damage output.</p>

    <p>Return does consistent damage to everything that resists Water, while enjoying 100% accuracy. It still sports excellent coverage as it's only resisted by Empoleon and the rare Shedinja. Bounce has some merit as an auxillary attack, for several reasons. First, it provides Gyarados with the best possible neutral coverage in two attacks, as only Empoleon and Lanturn resist the combination. The move can also come in useful for buying an extra turn of Leftovers recovery. Most importantly, it has a 30% chance of paralysis; this support can be extremely useful for most teams. Stone Edge can be used in this slot to better eliminate Zapdos, but outside of Zapdos, few Pokémon are hit harder by it. Earthquake is another attacking option, as it has consistent accuracy and does more damage to Magnezone and Empoleon.</p>

    <p>Unlike most Gyarados sets, this takes on Skarmory and Celebi fairly well. Even without Intimidate, Skarmory isn't doing much with Drill Peck, and Taunt prevents Gyarados from being thwarted off by Whirlwind. Celebi can only manage a Grass Knot at best, which does 34.86% - 41.35% to this Gyarados. This gives Gyarados the opportunity to Bounce, and when combined with the extra help of Leftovers on the Bounce turn, Grass Knot will not 2HKO, even with Stealth Rock in play. Meanwhile, Bounce after one Dragon Dance will do 71.29% - 84.65% to Celebi, enough damage to pick it off with Waterfall and KO Celebi weakened by residual damage.</p>

    <p>This set will work significantly better by packing an anti-Stealth Rock lead on your team. Choice Scarf Jirachi semi-reliably stops Aerodactyl, Azelf, and Mamoswine leads, making it a great partner for Bulky Gyarados. Gyarados also resists all of Jirachi's weaknesses. Other leads, such as Taunt / Stealth Rock Aerodactyl or Azelf, can accomplish the same task while supporting Gyarados with Stealth Rock. A Rapid Spinner, like Starmie, can be useful; most Rapid Spinners share the common counter of Rotom with Gyarados, though.</p> Mention Forretress instead of Starmie, Starmie shares a Electric weekness with Gyarados. Forretress may prove useful to find out if the oponent has a Magnezone.

    <p>Bulky Gyarados is a great lure for Electric- and Rock-type attacks, as well as bulky status-inducing counters. Gyarados can beat the latter with Taunt, but not the former, so packing Pokémon that can set up on Rock and Electric attacks is reccomended. Ground-type attackers like Flygon and Dugtrio are ideal as they resist both. Don't mention Dugtrio, he's extremely frail and I think even a Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Egde can OHKO it, or almost OHKO. Maybe mention Swampert? Electric-type attacks can often be set up on by Jolteon or Electivire (the latter forming the infamous "GyaraVire" combo), and Rock attacks by Lucario or Metagross.</p>

    ------------------------------------------------------

    Dragon Dance Substitute

    [SET]
    name: Dragon Dance Substitute
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Waterfall
    move 4: Flail
    item: Liechi Berry / Salac Berry
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>In order to exploit the effects of a pinch Berry and establish protection against frustrating status effects and a range of reasonably weak attacks, Gyarados can set up a Substitute and begin Dragon Dancing from behind one. This set takes advantage of the safety net that Substitute may cast upon Gyarados, preventing untimely priority and status moves from putting a Gyarados sweep to a hindering halt. Dragon Dance and Substitute are particularly self-explanatory moves, and Waterfall is the unforgotten STAB-boosted move on all Gyarados sets. The fourth move choice, Flail, is important to understand. By Substituting down to exactly 1 HP, Flail becomes a 200 base power move. Together, Waterfall and Flail are resisted only by Empoleon and Shedinja, so type coverage is not a problem. The execution, however, can be difficult, but when set up, the hard work taken to play this set will surely pay off.

    <p>The EV spread of 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe activates Gyarados' pinch Berry at exactly 1 HP. This means that at full health, Gyarados must set up five Substitutes before the pinch Berry will activate. While Liechi Berry helps Gyarados score easier OHKOs on opponents such as Celebi and Scizor, Salac Berry helps Gyarados outpace the myriad Choice Scarf users wreaking havoc all over OU.</p>

    <p>Empoleon and Shedinja are the two best counters to this set. Shedinja can be dealt with by setting up entry hazards, but Empoleon is more difficult to contend with. Long-time Gyarados counters, including Skarmory and Forretress, continue to haunt this set with their high Defense, and the former can phaze Gyarados away! Bulky Water-types, namely Suicune and Vaporeon, return to repel Gyarados' attacks yet again. Toxic Spikes harms these Water-types, chipping off their health slowly, while Gyarados can simply Substitute down and wait for the poison to feast on their health. When Gyarados has finally Substituted down to 1 HP, it can blast them away with its overpowering Flail. Tentacruel can be a nuisance by removing Toxic Spikes, but switching into Gyarados can be risky for it anyway.</p>

    <p>Magnezone is one of the best partners to this set. Gyarados not only resists all of Magnezone's weaknesses, but the reverse is true as well. In terms of offensive synergy, Magnezone traps those wretched Steel-types whose existence cripples Gyarados', including Skarmory, Forretress, and Empoleon. Magnezone is also a suitable partner to do away with Water-types who have less Special Defense than Defense. Life Orb Heatran can switch in on Ice Beams and Grass Knots aimed at Gyarados and use Fire Blast to scorch Steel-types, or Hidden Power Grass to dispose of unsuspecting Swampert, Milotic, and similar Water-types. The perfect partner to set up Toxic Spikes would be Roserade, who immediately threatens Water-types with Leaf Storm and Sleep Powder. Roserade also resists Gyarados' Electric-type weakness, and, in turn, Gyarados resists Roserade's weakness to Fire-type attacks.</p>

    <p>If you are not tempted to use Flail, feel free to substitute (no pun intended) it for a different attacking option, such as Bounce or Stone Edge. In this case, assume an EV spread of 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe. This makes Gyarados' HP divisible by four, allowing its pinch Berry to activate at exactly 25% health (three Substitutes are required) or less.</p> Maybe sugest partners to deal with Abomasnow, Hippowdon and Tyranitar.
  4. Erodent

    Erodent

    Joined:
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    Hello Roflmao23:

    First of all, you recommend Jolly to be listed before Adamant. As of September 2009:

    Adamant is far more dominant, so unless additional opposition is voiced, I think I will keep the selection of natures as it currently is.

    Next, "OHKOes" is a viable verb, so I'm not going to change it into "OHKOs". "OHKOs" seems to be more of a noun anyway.

    About Earthquake:

    Your argument is sensible. Earthquake will replace Bounce as first choice of move; comments will be reorganized accordingly.

    Next:



    Timid Jolteon > Jolly Jolteon, but an excellent suggestion otherwise. I will incorporate this into the analysis soon.



    Sounds good. I'll add it in as well.

    To mtr12 - your edits look very reasonable, so I'll add them in too.

    Thank you everyone. I will edit everything in tomorrow. If I have time I'll complete Choice and possibly one other sub-section as well.
  5. asiankid123

    asiankid123

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    [SET]
    name: Dragon Dance Bulky
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Taunt
    move 3: Waterfall
    move 4: Return / Bounce
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]




    <p>Bulky Gyarados is a great lure for Electric- and Rock-type attacks, as well as bulky status-inducing counters. Gyarados can beat the latter with Taunt, but not the former, so packing Pokémon that can set up on Rock and Electric attacks is recommended. Ground-type attackers like Flygon and Dugtrio are ideal as they resist both. Electric-type attacks can often be set up on by Jolteon or Electivire (the latter forming the infamous "GyaraVire" combo), and Rock attacks by Lucario or Metagross.</p>





    haha, hey erodent, i normally never edit so i just corrected one spelling word. :toast: how have you been by the way?
  6. Roflmao23

    Roflmao23

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    I edited my post with more edits.
  7. supermarth64

    supermarth64 Here I stand in the light of day
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Small note:

  8. franky

    franky
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    [SET]
    name: Dragon Dance Offensive
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Waterfall
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Bounce / Ice Fang / Earthquake
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>One of Pokemon's most celebrated Dragon Dancers returns to the fourth generation with the now physical Waterfall, and some new tools in the form of Stone Edge, Bounce, and Ice Fang. With these potent attacking moves, excellent base stats, and Intimidate, a Gyarados sweep is not uncommon. Dragon Dance is the move that initiates this set; the EVs are designed such that Gyarados outruns Jolly Tyranitar before a Dragon Dance and Jolly Weavile after a Dragon Dance. Gyarados' STAB Waterfall hits bulky Ground-types such as Hippowdon and Gliscor should they attempt to phaze Gyarados out. Stone Edge works alongside Waterfall to provide extensive coverage, while eliminating Zapdos, Salamence, and opposing Gyarados. The final move expands Gyarados' attacking flexibility. Life Orb Bounce will OHKO 136 HP / 156 Def Timid Starmie and 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Celebi most of the time with Stealth Rock in play.(remove last fluff) Ice Fang can be used to deal x4 super effective damage to Salamence and Dragonite, as well as Celebi and Breloom for x2 super effective damage. Stone Edge only has 20.51% chance of OHKO Salamence after taking Intimidate, while Ice Fang will always OHKO even with Intimidate facotred in. (added extra info on what Ice Fang should hit, reword if you like) Earthquake OHKOes most Metagross and Magnezone. Take note that (removed fluff) the process of selecting which move to use should depend on which foes you have problems with.</p>

    <p>A Life Orb is recommended on a completely offensive EV spread, as it allows Gyarados to OHKO or 2HKO most physical walls in OU. Leftovers, however, is viable on alternative EV spreads such as 252 Atk / 184 Spe / 72 HP, designed to outrun positive base 115s, mainly Starmie, after a Dragon Dance. Leftovers is also favorable in situations where Life Orb, along with other forms of residual damage, would decrease Gyarados' health all too quickly. Finally, the difference between an Adamant or Jolly nature lies mainly in attacking power and the Speed that Gyarados reaches after a Dragon Dance or two; for more information, consult the Dragon Dance Numbers section to tweak Gyarados' Speed EVs as you see fit. A Jolly Gyarados is mostly used to outpace a noteworthy threat like Jolteon (reworded and cut out fluff) after after a Dragon Dance.</p>

    <p>After a Dragon Dance, not many Pokemon can withstand Gyarados' obliterating power. However, it is during the set-up process that Gyarados encounters problems. Bulky Water-types that invest many EVs into Defense, including Suicune and Vaporeon, can stop Gyarados cold, especially if they wield HP Electric. The bulkiest of physical walls, such as Skarmory, Forretress, and Dusknoir, can phaze, explode on, and burn it respectively, putting Gyarados' sweep at peril. Other Pokemon that fail to be 2HKOed or outpace Gyarados after two to three Dragon Dances can be difficult to get around. Examples include Cresselia, Celebi, Swampet and Choice Scarf Latias, Gengar, and Rotom-A; the former four can threaten Gyarados with an Electric-type move, while the latter two can paralyze or phaze it, respectively.</p>

    <p>Gyarados functions well on offensive teams (cut of fluff) and it will often appreciate powerful and hard-hitting partners. Life Orb Starmie can OHKO Skarmory and Forretress, while 2HKOing Vaporeon and Suicune, essentially getting rid of four of Gyarados' top counters. Choice Specs Rotom-A accomplishes tasks similar to Starmie, and can use Shadow Ball to scare Cresselia and Celebi away. Having Scizor in your party makes Choice Scarf Latias, Rotom-A and Gengar think twice before switching in lest their lives be lost through Pursuit. The same applies to Tyranitar, whose presence signifies trouble for the three aforementoned foes, Dusknoir, Cresselia, and even some Celebi. Life Orb Gengar is also a stellar Gyarados partner, OHKOing Rotom and Latias with Shadow Ball, while denting Cresselia, Celebi, and Dusknoir in the process. Finally, Life Orb Gyarados does hate harmful weather effects, so quickly deal with the likes of Hippowdon and Abomasnow before they slowly but surely chip off Gyarados' health!</p>

    ---

    Good work, took me 20 mins to edit the first part. Will edit some later.
    Cut out some fluff, alot of run-ons, and added some parts myself. Feel free to reword it though!

    My 2 cents:


    • I think Offensive Team Options should be better. Jolteon and Electivire are traditional partners to form GyraVire or GyraJolt or whatever they call it. I think that should be mention
    • Mention Metagross as a good partner in the lead slot as it can use Explosion on physical walls like Hippowdon and Swampert, helping sweep in the long run of the match.
    • Endeavor Smeargle works great with it as well, setting up SR and Endeavoring bulky leads, helping it set up or sweep later.
  9. Zach

    Zach

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    Liechi / Salac Berry should not be an option on RestTalk Gyarados.
  10. YTP

    YTP

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    This. Gyarados isn't an all offensive pokemon like you are making it out to be. RestTalk is supposed to tank. Not sweep, unless you are running DD.

    You should talk more about Gyara's utility on stall teams.
  11. pi face

    pi face a
    is a Past SPL Winner

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    Messages:
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    I think this was just copypasted from the set above it, but if not, you are right.

    Also agreeing about the utility on stall teams part and the set needs Roar slashed in too because of that.
  12. Erodent

    Erodent

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    Thanks guys, gonna edit soon. As for the Liechi Berry thing, I copied and pasted from Sub + DD. I mentioned Roar already though.
  13. Zach

    Zach

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    aaah text wall

  14. Sir Azelf

    Sir Azelf

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    I agree with this definately.

    Rest talker comments :

    I dont get this, they perform different niches entirely. Anyone who has faced/used STalker Roar Gyarados can confirm this too. Gyarados can PHaze on both sides of the spectrum due to its great s.def, dont forget this to distinguish them, that and the negative priority doesnt apply to Roar when Rest Talking so yeah.

    I also feel the ev spread on the Rest Talker : 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 SDef with a Careful Nature needs a mention in set comments, this helps massively with Infernape whose LO Grass Knots really wear down the Impish one, especially with SR up due to the high BP vs Gyara. It also just allows you to take hits on both sides in general decently with Intimidate, rather than just physical bias.

    Good job though.
  15. Zach

    Zach

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    Agreeing with dark 123, Roar Gyarados has been invaluable for me any time I use stall. It can be used to Phaze certain threats like Infernape on the predicted switch out, racking up entry-hazard damage, etc. Having multiple phazers is also cool for the entry hazard reason, especially on stall. Its worth a primary option imo...
  16. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    My comments are bolded.
  17. diinbong

    diinbong *it's in you to give*
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    It was already decided that RestTalk should be the 2nd set. That may have changed a bit but it should at least be above the Flail set.
  18. iKitsune

    iKitsune

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    Roar definitely needs a mention on the Rest Talk set seeing as it is pretty integral to a lot of teams - Stall and bulky Spike stack teams alike. IMO it needs a whole set to itself with DD/Stone Edge/avalanche? in set comments seeing as the only one of that is really viable is DD.

    I also unsurprisingly agree with diinbong, it should definitely be the second set.
  19. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    Stone Edge and Avalanche are certainly viable depending on what you would like to counter... I would keep them. Its just Roar / Dragon Dance are definately primary options but either way it still plays the same so...
  20. XxJohny2haixX

    XxJohny2haixX

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    For the Restalk set, wouldn't Roar be a plausible option? Able to roar away CM Cune or any other set-uppers
  21. mc2094

    mc2094

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    Agreeing with RaikouLover, the RestTalk is meant to be geared defensivley.

    Also, you might want to add something about how RestTalk Gyarados benefits teams to combat stall when using DD+Waterfall (last poke left.)
  22. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

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    I do however question it being in the second slot (RestTalk). Granted, it is a very good set, but BulkyGyara has been a very solid set as well. In fact...
    Code:
    | Gyarados | Move | Dragon Dance | 88.0 |
    | Gyarados | Move | Stone Edge | 53.8 |
    | Gyarados | Move | Earthquake | 40.6 |
    [B]| Gyarados | Move | Taunt | 35.2 |[/B]
    | Gyarados | Move | Ice Fang | 26.9 |
    [B]| Gyarados | Move | Rest | 11.0 |[/B]
    [B]| Gyarados | Move | Sleep Talk | 10.7 |[/B]
    | Gyarados | Move | Bounce | 8.9 |
    | Gyarados | Move | Roar | 7.0 |
    | Gyarados | Move | Substitute | 5.3 |
    | Gyarados | Move | Other (4) | < 3.2 
    
    Even the stats agree with me.
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