Gyarados (Mono-Attacker)

Matthew

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+1 Ice Beam from standard SubPetaya Empoleon: 26.5-31.3
+1 Surf from standard SubPetaya Empoleon: 26.5-31.3%

just in case you go "what about Grass Knot!"
Empoleon | Move | Surf | 75.3 |
| Empoleon | Move | Ice Beam | 66.5 |
| Empoleon | Move | Agility | 62.0 |
| Empoleon | Move | Substitute | 54.1 |

and even so:
+1 Grass Knot 45.5-52.7
+0 Grass Knot 29.8-35.1

Gyarados needs a +1 boost to deal 27.3-32.5 damage to Empoleon with Waterfall. So I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this set beats Empoleon
 
KK guys, this post is the update for GP. First, here is the current resttalk changes I removed mentions of this set since it actually downplays it in that sets comments.

<p>Good defenses combined with Intimidate and an excellent array of resistances means that Gyarados can take on a defensive role. Rest can cure Gyarados of any damage it has lost through direct attacks, Stealth Rock, and other residual damage, while Sleep Talk lets Gyarados perform moves while it's asleep. Rest also removes status, so Gyarados can take on Heatran and Dusknoir without being crippled. The large number of EVs in HP and Defense makes Gyarados an excellent check to some of the most common threats in OU, such as Lucario, Infernape and Heatran.</p>

<p>Waterfall is a very reliable STAB move for Gyarados to hurt Water-weak foes. Roar lets Gyarados shuffle the opponents. This is useful if you lack a phazer or you're using a stall team. Two other options are Stone Edge and Avalanche. Stone Edge provides nice coverage, hurting most Dragon-types and all Flying-types. Avalanche also does this, plus it also hurts Celebi.</p>

<p>248 HP EVs caps Gyarados' HP off at 393, allowing it to switch into Stealth Rock five times. 12 Speed EVs outrun base 80 Speed Pokémon who linger around the 200 Speed mark. An other possible EV spread is 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD with a Careful nature, which lets Gyarados have an easier time against special attackers like Heatran and still do well against Infernape, Lucario, and Scizor.</p>

<p>This set has a lot of problems with Taunt users who either resist Waterfall or have the defenses to take it. Opposing Gyarados with Taunt can set up freely, while Taunt Skarmory can set up multiple layers of Spikes. While this set is great at shuffling the opponent's team, it cannot do that against strong special attackers with Thunderbolt, such as Jolteon, Magnezone, Rotom-A, Zapdos, and Gengar. When not using Roar, a major problem this set faces is the lack of power, while still being unable to shuffle the opponents’ team. By choosing a moveset of Rest + Sleep Talk + Waterfall + Stone Edge, Gyarados often finds its attacks doing little-to-average damage. Pokémon like Suicune and Breloom can take advantage of Gyarados' weak attacks and set up on it via Calm Mind or Substitute. Waterfall + Avalanche is even worse; in this case, foes like Empoleon and Cresselia, in addition to the aforementioned Suicune, will gladly come in on Gyarados and set up right in its face.</p>

<p>To help Gyarados out, Blissey can stall out Suicune, Vaporeon, Cresselia, Empoleon, and even Celebi. In return, Gyarados fends off the Fighting-types that endanger Blissey's life. Rotom-A can check some of Gyarados' counters well, including Dusknoir and Celebi. Entry hazard support is very helpful, as Roar racks up residual damage. Toxic Spikes support can help it stall out bulky Water-types that lack an Electric-type move; an essential partner to set Toxic Spikes up is Roserade, but Forretress can also set them up reliably. Forretress and Skarmory are the best options for setting up Spikes, especially since this Gyarados is commonly used on stall teams. They both have the Defense to set up Spikes on physically offensive Pokémon. There are many Pokémon who can set up Stealth Rock to aid Gyarados, such as Blissey, Forretress, Hippowdon, Skarmory, and Swampert. Just use whichever fits your team best and remember not to overload Pokémon with entry hazards, as they may not always be able to get all of them up. Specially-based Pokémon in general are useful teammates for Gyarados.</p>


[SET]
name: Sleeping Dancer
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Dragon Dance
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 SpD

<Reserved for set Comments>
 
yeah, i've used this set extensively and it's really freaking awesome. i had no idea it wasn't on-site, but it needs to go there asap. for now, i've slashed dragon dance back onto the rest/talk set.

i agree with ditching the 44 speed evs because with all the things you set up on you'll rarely get only one dragon dance. you might be screwed by a gliscor that decides to switch in and then use taunt, but i very much doubt anybody's going to do that. on the other hand, 8 evs might be a cool idea to outspeed adamant jirachi after a dragon dance (even if only to prevent any iron head nonsense)

if anybody still doubts the efficacy of this set, i encourage you to try out legacy raider's team, featuring this pokemon.
 
8 Speed really is a good idea. Not really for Jirachi, but for the fact that it puts your speed exactly at 200. This outspeeds Choice Scarf Flygon after 3 dances, where no speed normally wouldn' (hits only 495..). Since normally you can get 1-2 dances on a pokemon and Flygon doesnt OHKO you, get another dance and finish the sweep, or Rest on his Outrage. It doesn't look as neat but I don't think anyone will object to taking 8 Speed out of Defense for that reason.
 

Setsuna

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I edited the OP with the removed mentions of DD in the RestTalk set. The rest still needs to be written.
 
RaikouLover expressed to me in a PM that he is extraordinarily busy and that he will not be able to write his analyses. Because this has passed QC, I am bumping this. If anyone wants to take this over, please PM me and post here and if qualified, I will transfer ownership of the topic to you. Umbreon_Dan is taking this over for RL.
 
I just want to point out that you mentioned that "44 Spe outspeeds positive base 90s after a Dragon Dance" but there aren't 44 EVs on the EV spread in the OP. I'm not sure if you meant for that to be a AC mention or if the EV Spead on the OP is wrong but just wanted to point that out.

Also, i would add Grass Types such as Shaymin and Celebi as teammates as they can switch into electric attacks. Also, I'm sure as you write this you'll take care of this but you also need to mention counters as well, its not in the skeleton so just felt the need to say that.
This can also serve as a bump too, although it hasn't been that long.
 
It only makes sense to approve this set because:

1) It not only completely walls Breloom, but can set up in its face! How many Pokemon can boast this?
2) It makes for an amazing "win condition" Pokemon against opposing stall teams.

I have seen this set in action and it is DEADLY, especially when paired with toxic spikes. Stall teams love a Pokemon that can check a variety of different threats, while at the same time being a potent offensive threat.
Celebi for one. Even though it can be put to sleep, it does not give a damn about anything it does. (And if you wanted you could even run a sleep talk set :D) Of course this isn't too relevant to the set, but I'm just saying.
 
i haven't had more than about twenty minutes of internet per day for the past week or so (i don't think i told anybody, but my router died so i'm sharing a single connection with two other rowdy people). i just fixed it, so i'm expecting to be active again. give me a day or so to catch up on all things smogon, and then expect this (and umbreon) to be finished shortly

edit: alright, sorry this is taking so long (more nonsense cropped up) but i'll be posting this tomorrow.

superedit: posted
 

Fatecrashers

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gyarados should be running dragon rage, his most powerful attack
js

GP CHECK 1/2

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[SET]
name:
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Dragon Dance
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 96 SpD / 8 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>While RestTalk Roar Gyarados should only be used on stall teams with lots of entry hazards, this version plays nicely on any team looking for a solid mixed wall. Instead of Roaring out your opponents, this Gyarados threatens to set up against them and clean up their team. He excels at countering Fire-types (especially Heatran and any Infernape without Stone Edge), while still performing very well against the likes of Scizor and Lucario. And By forgoing Attack and investing in both defenses, Gyarados gains the capability to set sets up against Pokemon who would otherwise be considered his counters, such as Celebi, Empoleon, Swampert (without Roar), and Vaporeon (without Hidden Power Electric).</p>

<p>With a Careful nature, 96 Special Defense EVs ensure that a defensive Celebi's Grass Knot never inflicts more than 32%, meaning it will never 3HKO; Empoleon's Grass Knot is about as equally powerful (Empoleon will rarely get a Petaya boost against this Gyarados), so these two will find themselves watching idly as Gyarados boosts his Attack and Speed. It This spread also guarantees that Heatran's Fire Blast has only a very small chance to 3HKO after a Flash Fire (or Choice Specs) boost. 8 Speed is a minimal investment, but it is enough to outrun the neutral-natured base 100 Speed group after a single Dragon Dance, which can make mean the difference between winning the game and being flinched to death by Jirachi; it also outspeeds Timid Rotom-A. The remainder goes into Defense to help Gyarados take physical attacks better, and this is further aided—Gyarados' physical hit-taking ability is compounded by Intimidate. This Gyarados laughs in the face of Breloom, as he does not fear Spore or any of Breloom's other attacks. Finally, with all these investments this, Gyarados will even be able to beat out powerful mixed attackers, including the big three Dragon-types of OU: Kingdra, Flygon, and Dragonite. Lastly, with the Defense investment, Gyarados will chuckle at the sight of an opposing Breloom, with no fear of Spore.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>While it may be tempting to start using Dragon Dance right away, like you would with any offensive Gyarados set, it's important to keep in mind that this Gyarados is primarily a wall and should be kept in good condition. And Unlike with the more conventional offensive sets, this Gyarados will virtually never be able to smash through your opponent's team early on in a battle. Gyarados is more of a “win condition”—you can depend on him to be able to finish up in the late-game, but only if you've gotten rid of any potential threats. This primarily refers to users of Electric-type attacks Electricity, but also includes fast, powerful Rock-type attackers like ScarfTar and Life Orb Aerodactyl. You will definitely want at least one solid switch-in for to threats like Jolteon and Zapdos. A Jolteon of your own will love to switch switching into Thunderbolts, and will serve Gyarados very well by eliminating doing away with Skarmory and Vaporeon. Swampert is also immune to Electric and carries a bonus Rock resistance, making him a natural choice for a partner. Shaymin is an adorable alternative; she resists Electric, and with Gyarados around, needs not worry about Heatran or Blissey when using firing off her powerful Seed Flare.</p>

<p>Uniquely, Toxic Spikes are very helpful to this Gyarados, since opponents like Celebi will be constantly forced to heal away damage instead of spamming Grass Knot critical hits. A single layer is great, but with two layers, Gyarados will be able to challenge assured victory against the likes of Vaporeon, Suicune, and Celebi with assured victory. Removing Stealth Rock will make it considerably easier to bring Gyarados in and out, so either a fast Taunt lead or a Rapid Spin user is a good idea. Tentacruel and Forretress can both lay down Toxic Spikes and use Rapid Spin, but they aren't necessarily the sort of Pokemon that fit the same teams as Gyarados because their synergy with Gyarados is suspect as they pose little offensive threat (and Tentacruel shares his Electric weakness). An offensive Starmie with Rapid Spin is more suitable, despite the shared Electric weakness, because it can lure in Rotom-A and take it down with a manly Hydro Pump. Overall, remember that this Gyarados is more of a supporter than a supportee; he's probably not a Pokemon to build your team around.</p>

<p>Theoretically, one could put an offensive twist on this set by investing heavily in Speed and possibly Attack in order to threaten opponents earlier, while maintaining some longevity and a virtual immunity to status. After a Dragon Dance, 88 Speed outruns Jolly Jirachi and Timid Zapdos, which should be the minimum for any offensive variants set like this. Below that, you could aim to beat Jolly Lucario and Timid Roserade, but Roserade is nearly always used in the lead slot and Lucario will simply ExtremeSpeed you anyway. Gliscor, although somewhat annoying with Taunt, will never switch into any Gyarados. 184 Speed will outspeed Starmie, although whether you'll be able to KO it with Waterfall is another matter. The problem with any fast, powerful RestTalk Gyarados is that he won't be able to wall and set-up against many of the same opponents, such as Celebi, who will beat you without Special Defense investment. Feel free to experiment, but this spread is tried and true, like a delicious lemon meringue pie.</p>


very interesting write-up :)

9.9 out of 10

 

Snorlaxe

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GP CHECK 2/2

pink is grammar edits
blue is prose edits

[SET]
name:
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Dragon Dance
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 96 SpD / 8 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>While RestTalk Roar Gyarados should only be used on stall teams with a lot of entry hazards, this version plays nicely on any team looking for a solid mixed wall. Instead of Roaring out your opponents, this Gyarados threatens to set up against them and clean up their team. Forgoing Attack and investing in both defenses lets Gyarados set up against Pokemon who would otherwise be considered his counters, such as Celebi, Empoleon, Swampert (without Roar), and Vaporeon (without Hidden Power Electric). He also excels at countering Fire-types (especially Heatran and any Infernape without Stone Edge) while still performing very well against the likes of Scizor and Lucario.</p>

<p>96 Special Defense EVs and a Careful nature ensure that a defensive Celebi's Grass Knot never inflicts more than 32%, meaning it will never 3HKO; Empoleon's Grass Knot is about equally powerful (Empoleon will rarely get a Petaya boost against this Gyarados), so these two will find themselves unable to do a thingas Gyarados boosts his Attack and Speed. This also guarantees that Heatran's Fire Blast has only a very small chance to 3HKO after a Flash Fire (or Choice Specs) boost. 8 Speed is a minimal investment, but it is enough to outrun the neutral-natured base 100 Speed group after a single Dragon Dance, which can mean the difference between winning the game and being flinched to death by Jirachi; it also outspeeds Timid Rotom-A. The remainder goes into Defense to help Gyarados take physical attacks better, and this is amplified by Intimidate. This Gyarados laughs in the face of Breloom, as he does not fear Spore or any of Breloom's other attacks. Lastly, with all of these investments, Gyarados will even be able to beat out powerful mixed attackers, including the big three Dragon-types of OU: Kingdra, Flygon, and Dragonite.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>While it may be tempting to start using Dragon Dance right away, like you would with any offensive Gyarados set, it's important to keep in mind that this Gyarados is primarily a wall and should be kept in good condition. Unlike the more conventional offensive sets, this Gyarados will virtually never be able to smash through your opponent's team early on in a battle. Gyarados is more of a “win condition”—you can depend on him to finish up late-game, but only if you've gotten rid of any potential threats. This primarily refers to Electric-types, but also includes fast, powerful Rock-type attackers like Choice Scarf Tyranitar and Life Orb Aerodactyl. You will definitely want at least one solid switch-in for threats like Jolteon and Zapdos. A Jolteon of your own will love to switch into Thunderbolt, and will serve Gyarados very well by shooing away Skarmory and Vaporeon. Swampert is also immune to Electric and carries a bonus Rock resistance, making him a natural choice for a partner. Shaymin is an adorable alternative; she resists Electric, and with Gyarados around, needs not worry about Heatran or Blissey when firing off her powerful Seed Flare.</p>

<p>Toxic Spikes are very helpful to this Gyarados, since opponents like Celebi will be constantly forced to heal away damage instead of spamming Grass Knot for critical hits. A single layer is great, but with two layers, Gyarados will boast assured victory against the likes of Vaporeon, Suicune, and Celebi. Removing Stealth Rock will make it considerably easier to switch Gyarados in and out, so utilizing either a fast Taunt lead or a Rapid Spin user is a good idea. Tentacruel and Forretress can both lay down Toxic Spikes and use Rapid Spin, but their synergy with Gyarados is suspect as they pose little offensive threat (and Tentacruel shares his Electric weakness). An offensive Starmie with Rapid Spin is more suitable, despite the shared weakness, because it can lure in Rotom-A and take it down with a powerful Hydro Pump. Overall, remember that this Gyarados is more of a supporter than a supportee; he's probably not a Pokemon to build your team around.</p>

<p>Theoretically, one could put an offensive twist on this set by investing heavily in Speed and possibly Attack in order to threaten opponents earlier, while maintaining some longevity and a virtual immunity to status. After a Dragon Dance, 88 Speed outruns Jolly Jirachi and Timid Zapdos, which should be the minimum for any offensive Gyarados. Below that, you could aim to beat Jolly Lucario and Timid Roserade, but the feral flower is nearly always used in the lead slot and Lucario will simply ExtremeSpeed Gyarados anyway. Gliscor, although somewhat annoying with Taunt, will never switch into any Gyarados. 184 Speed will outspeed Starmie, although whether Gyarados will be able to KO it with Waterfall is another matter. The problem with any fast, powerful RestTalk Gyarados is that he won't be able to wall and set-up against many of the same opponents, such as Celebi, who will beat him without Special Defense investment. Feel free to experiment, but this spread is tried and true, like a delicious lemon meringue pie.</p>
very interesting and informative write-up, so props to you on that

 
I'm not sure if that would be the best set name. It seems that it would be ideal to go for more conciseness.

Sorry if I missed anything, but what happened to the original name ("Sleeping Dancer")? I thought it sounded quite adequate.
 
Okay, uploading then. Also:
Fatecrashers said:
"mono-attacker" doesn't exactly do it justice
Dan expressed great feral rage when I confronted him and told him that this is exactly a Mono-Attacker set. By current C&C conventions, Mono-Attacker is used as a set name for any set that:

  • Uses the RestTalk strategy
  • Uses a boosting move such as Calm Mind or Dragon Dance
  • Uses a single attack for mono-attacking coverage
Dan wasn't happy with this because it is slightly ambiguous. The normal RestTalk set is also a mono-attacker, for instance, but that set is called RestTalk by C&C conventions.

I will be uploading this as Mono-Attacker. If C&C conventions change at some point, I will make the adjustment to all analyses that bear this set naming. Until such point, however, consistency is critical.

EDIT: Uploaded.
 

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