Gyarados (QC 2/3) Writeup In Process

#1
Splash Splash B*tches

[Overview]
  • Badass
  • Intimidate/Moxie choice
  • Super powerful
  • Bulky and Fighting resist
  • Resist/Immune to Surf/EQ, weak to Discharge/Rock Slide, BlizzSpam neutral
  • Electricity scares it off easily, Lightningrod mons are a good partner.
[Set]
Name: Intimidate Support
Move 1: Waterfall
Move 2: Thunder Wave / Icy Wind
Move 3: Taunt
Move 4: Protect
Item: Wacan Berry / Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 208 HP / 92 Atk / 112 Def / 56 SpD / 40 Spe

[Set Comments]
  • Arguably its best set in Doubles
  • Intimidate is an excellent ability
  • Waterfall STAB
  • TWave or Icy Wind, depending on what you want to check
  • Taunt blocks set up and status moves
  • Wacan Berry stops lots of Electric attacks
[Additional Comments]
  • EVs are crazy but work
  • HP is the highest Sandstorm number possible on Gyarados, but Rain is its favorite weather
  • HP + SpD + Wacan = Timid Thundy-T can't OHKO with TBolt
  • HP + SpD = Timid Latios Gem DM won't OHKO
  • HP + Def + Intim = Adamant SF LO Rampardos can't OHKO with Rock Slide
  • Spe to Outspeed and Taunt 4 Spe Cress
  • Nature and Remaining EVs into Attack for power
  • Possible to run Stone Miss overTaunt to hit things like Abomasnow who resist Water STAB
  • Sitrus Berry is an option if you can dodge or kill all electric users easily, while a Lum Berry can be used against Rotom-W, Breloom, or Sableye trying to Burn or Sleep it.
[Set]
Name: Dragon Dance
Move 1: Dragon Dance
Move 2: Waterfall
Move 3: Return / Ice Fang / Earthquake
Move 4: Protect
Item: Water Gem / Wacan Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 208 HP / 60 Atk / 56 SpD / 184 Spe

[Set Comments]
  • DDance boosts Gyara to great levels quickly without a ton of power investment
  • Waterfall + Ice Fang = great coverage
  • Waterfall + Return = Also good coverage and can hit Rotom and Bulky Waters for at least Neutral
  • EQ optional to hit grounded Electric threats (uncommon since Thundy/Zapdos)
  • Water gem +1 Waterfall OHKOs 4/0 TTar most of the time, and hits Genies hard
  • Intimidate gives you more pseudo-bulk to Defense, while Moxie can get you a serious sweep going
  • Intimidate bait, but can boost around it, as Top/Lando-T can't do much against Gyara
[Additional Comments]
  • EVs ensure an OHKO on bulky Thundurus at +1 with a Water Gem
  • Outspeeds Scarfed TTar (at +1) and base 111's
  • Lives Latios Gem DM
  • Sandstorm number HP, but works best on Rain teams
  • Like Choice Band, but not completely reliant on speed control
  • Could run Bounce for STAB, but easily predicted and TTar is ubiquitous
  • RP support is pretty much a must, because set up in doubles is very tricky
  • Completely screwed over by Trick Room
  • Moxie is a nice alternate ability for adding extra boosts and making Gyara more threatening against weakened foes
  • Normal Gem Double Edge + 252 Attack = very dead bulky Rotom-W. Also helps with Lati@s where Ice Fang isn't a sure bet.

[Other Options]
  • Choice Band set plausible with Speed control support
  • Bounce as physical Flying STAB
  • Aqua Tail over Waterfall for power increase, but less accurate
  • Access to EQ/Surf for spread
  • Substitute/DTail set?
  • learns 3 different weather setting moves (Rain/Hail/Sand)
  • Learns Thunder(bolt), Flamethrower, Fire Blast, but base 60 SpA holds it back
[Checks and Counters]
  • Zapdos/Thundy
  • Rock Slide spam
  • Gastrodon
  • Excadrill in Sand
  • Terrakion
  • Kingdra
  • Ludicolo
  • Rotom-W
  • Abomasnow (without Stone Miss)
  • Opposing Intimidate spam
 
Last edited:

lucariojr

MS State Pokemon!!!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#6
honestly, a dragon dance set should be added, though probably as a third set. something like

Name: Dragon Dance
Move 1: Waterfall
Move 2: Dragon Dance
Move 3: Return / Ice Fang / Earthquake
Move 4: Protect
Item: Water Gem / Wacan Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 152 HP / 64 Atk / 108 SpD / 184 Spe

evs ensure an ohko on bulky thundurus at +1 with a water gem, outspeeds scarftar (at +1) and base 111's, and lives a latios dgem meteor. main goal of this set is to be like choice band, but not completely reliant on speed control to seize opportunities. rage powder support is pretty much a must though, but that's usually very easy to fit onto a team.

ps, ever tried ddos+follow me electabuzz? ;)
 
#7
Will add a CB and that DDance set sometime tomorrow. I definitely like that set Luc, but I feel Ice Fang should be primary over Return, so should EQ haha.
 
#8
Added DDance Set with some changes to help its bulk. added CB set to OO for now, as DDance mostly outclasses it, although if someone gives me a set I can try and make it work. 3 sets is a lot though.
 

lucariojr

MS State Pokemon!!!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#9
return needs to be a slash on dragon dance. water/normal is pretty good coverage actually, and it has a very nice base power to go along with that. it also lets gyara touch rotom-w, and as a whole isn't as terrible as i think you think it is.
 
#10
return needs to be a slash on dragon dance. water/normal is pretty good coverage actually, and it has a very nice base power to go along with that. it also lets gyara touch rotom-w, and as a whole isn't as terrible as i think you think it is.
Fair enough, but I can't see it as a main slash over Ice Fang, or even Bounce to be honest. Still, I'll slash it in. I actually like it over EQ since it lets you hit Waters not named Jellicent for at least Neutral, so I can see the allure.

Also adding Bounce in AC for it since STAB, but only AC because TTar is everywhere.

Edit: Improved EV spreads. Comments in ACs.
 
Last edited:

Joim

Pixels matter
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
#11
Ok, this is a very good analysis, just mention how dd set is totally useless against TR and the difficulties of setting up in Doubles.
Anyways, here's my true QC 1/3 stamp:

GARY WAS HERE, THIS ANALYSIS IS 1/3 APPROVED
 

Pocket

be the upgraded version of me
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#12
Double-Edge @ Normal Gem with max Atk EVs is worth an AC mention of DD Gyarados:

+1 252+ Atk Normal Gem Gyarados Double-Edge vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 296-349 (98.33 - 115.94%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

I guess you could get a similar effect by pairing D-Edge Gyarados (or Silk Scarf Return Gyarados) with Helping Hand support (ie Latias), too.

DDance set doesn't need an Ability row if both of its Abilities are equally good. I think Intimidate is almost always better, though, so drop Moxie to AC IMO.

I also support lucariojr's slash priority choice - Return > Ice Fang. Return simply offers better coverage and power

CB Gyarados is good, imo, because it does not need as much support or time to start dishing out hard damage.
 
Last edited:
#13
Double-Edge @ Normal Gem with max Atk EVs is worth an AC mention of DD Gyarados:

+1 252+ Atk Normal Gem Gyarados Double-Edge vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 296-349 (98.33 - 115.94%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

I guess you could get a similar effect by pairing D-Edge Gyarados (or Silk Scarf Return Gyarados) with Helping Hand support (ie Latias), too.

DDance set doesn't need an Ability row if both of its Abilities are equally good. I think Intimidate is almost always better, though, so drop Moxie to AC IMO.

CB Gyarados is good, imo, because it does not need as much support or time to start dishing out hard damage.
I'm loathe to add a recoil move to Gyarados, as it already has enough issues with setting up that it really doesn't need the extra damage. However, that calc is impressive, so I'll add it to OO at least unless someone else seconds it to AC.

Moxie is nice for an extra boost, but I'll drop it to AC.

CB is great yes, but I really don't think Gyara needs 3 sets fully written for its first analysis, so I'll get these two done now and either myself or someone else can write in the CB set at a later date, if that's alright?
 

nyttyn

Even ghosts stray from the path of righteousness
is a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
#14
Mention Politoed as a teammate on all sets.

for C&C: excadrill in sand outspeeds and murders. Terrakion outspeeds without a boost and murders with rock slide. Also the mexcian racist sterotype dancing pineapple doesn't really fear waterfall taunt or any of that noise and has giga drain to leech away the windfish's life to sustain its own. likewise kingdra has dpulse and doesn't exactly fear our flying fish in the slightest (except maybe the stray T-wave or two)
 

Pocket

be the upgraded version of me
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#16
The Double-Edge calc is particularly relevant to the DD set, though, so I personally prefer it under AC. Gyarados has a good base HP stat, so the recoil isn't all that crippling in exchange for an OHKO on Rotom-W, Latios, Hydreigon, etc, all of which would take away greater chunks of HP than the DE recoil.

I personally favor Return > Ice Fang for the power and better neutral coverage. With Ice Fang it cannot seriously hurt Water-types.
 
#17
The Double-Edge calc is particularly relevant to the DD set, though, so I personally prefer it under AC. Gyarados has a good base HP stat, so the recoil isn't all that crippling in exchange for an OHKO on Rotom-W, Latios, Hydreigon, etc, all of which would take away greater chunks of HP than the DE recoil.

I personally favor Return > Ice Fang for the power and better neutral coverage. With Ice Fang it cannot seriously hurt Water-types.
Could you put the DE Calc in proper format so I can cp it in?

I'll make these changes now. Done. Can I get some stamps now?
 
#20
Please reassign this to Starman. I don't have the time right now to sit and do the Writeup for this. I can do it at a later date, but A Rank mons need to be priority right now.
 

Pocket

be the upgraded version of me
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#22
Seems like StarmanXL isn't working on this for BlankZero - anybody want to take over Gyarados?

EDIT: blank is resuming this analysis.
 
Last edited:
#23
EDIT: blank is resuming this analysis.
...slowly.

Some OO that might be worth mentions (I swear, I must be the only person who looks over those):
  • Dragon Tail can mess with Trick Room
  • Remove Bounce, using it is like telling the opponent: "switch to an Electric-type counter plz"
  • ChestoRest, because that is an acceptable option on almost anything bulky (heck, I've used it on Thundy in VGC before)
  • Avalanche is plausible on a slower attacking set, as it can do things, most notably OHKOing Thundurus after he fails to OHKO with TBolt thanks to a Wacan Berry (need minimum of 208 Atk EVs with Adamant to achieve this)
 
#24
Sorry it is taking so long to write this up. The move I just made cross country, coupled with a ton of family events and 6 birthdays in the past week-and-a-half (one of them being a Quincenera) have really eaten up my time.

I promise I'm working in this thing when I can, and I should have time tomorrow night to just sit and type.