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Pokémon Gyarados

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by azureleaf17, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. DaiGuren

    DaiGuren

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    Im just following the EV spread outlined in the first post in this thread. However, maybe the reason why that kind of set is working for me is because I have Scolipede as my baton passer. Scoli baton passes a 2x speed and atk to Gyarados, who only have SR to worry about, and Gyarados/Megados wrecks stuff, and has rest/sleep talk for recovery.

    Mocha and heroes

    Good points overall. Im using Scizor and Gyarados in my team and its very useful for mindgames, since they almost always asume that im baton passing to Scizor.

    Though one thing I might add, MegaAbsol can learn play rough and will outspeed and kill a 252 hp, def 0 spd Megados in one hit. Just a heads up.
  2. Mocha

    Mocha

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    Heh, I know, I was breeding Absols for 3 days straight for a flawless one, and had to breed Play Rough onto it prior to that from Skitty.

    That's pretty impressive though, considering that isn't even boosted from Swords Dance. But does Gyarados/Mega Gyarados outrun Mega Absol after a Dragon Dance? (Mega Absol's base speed is 115). Cause pretty much anything Gyarados does to Absol, Mega or not (Mega Absol's defenses don't change) will kill it. And Mega Gyarados will resist Sucker Punch if it bothered with it.
  3. DaiGuren

    DaiGuren

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    ^from my experience, a 0 speed Megados with 1 DD under its belt can't outrun MegaAbsol. Not sure about two though,

    And yes, that is very impressive for MegaAbsol. I was utterly surprised since I was confident that Megados can tank 1 hit from MegaAbsol, and I thought I could get one DD in before using Rest
  4. Ballofire

    Ballofire Banned deucer.

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    I think I prefer regular gyarados for the defensive set the loss of lefties and that ongoing intimidate sucks and losing the resistance to fighting is too much for me. :(
    TROP likes this.
  5. Jin White

    Jin White

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    I'm not so sure about that. MegaGyarados outspeeds and easily 2HKOs with an unboosted Ice Fang. Assault Vest seems to be the go-to on Goodras at the moment, or regardless, a 252 HP / 252 SpAtk spread. Modest Goodra vs. zero investment Mega Grrados (and realistically, gyarados will be running some HP):

    252+ SpA (custom) Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 154-182 (46.52 - 54.98%) -- 62.11% chance to 2HKO
    252+ SpA (custom) Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 166-196 (50.15 - 59.21%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


    Fails to 2HKO with Draco after the SpAtk drop. Even if our Grrados isn't running Ice Fang:

    252+ Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def (custom): 183-216 (47.65 - 56.25%) -- 83.59% chance to 2HKO

    At +1, Gyarados is doing 71.35 - 84.11% with EQ or 92.7 - 109.37% with Ice Fang.

    I wouldn't send Gyarados in on a Goodra unless it's weakened, but even 1v1 Gyarados has a really good chance to take it.
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013
  6. DaiGuren

    DaiGuren

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    I fail to see how Goodra can wall Megados, it's def is laughable and will never outspeed Megados unless it invests in Speed, which will make it all the more susceptible to 1hko
  7. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    I havent played much of the new metagame but would a SpD Defensive Mega Gyarados with Waterfall/Rest/Sleep Talk/Payback be a good Bulky Water counter? Wouldn't beat Keledo or Azumarill, but certainly helpful against the likes of Jellicent, Starmie, and even Rotom-W.

    With full HP and SpD investments, it generally can survive non-STAB Focus Blasts and Thunderbolts and lack of Speed investment means Payback will have 100 Base Power if Gyarados does second (far better than Bite's 60 Base Power). You can even try to keep it a Flying type until the Fighting/Bug types go down.
  8. SuperMeep

    SuperMeep

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    Even with the steel downbuff, I think Mega aggron can wall it, cause megados doesn't have crunch. Why GF?
  9. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

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    Gyarados has Earthquake, so the lack of Crunch doesn't matter. Better yet, Mega Gyarados has Mold Breaker, which renders Mega Aggron's Filter useless. However, that absurd 230 base Defense stat means 252/252+ Mega Aggron is barely 3HKO'd by an unboosted EQ. Even at +1:

    +1 248+ Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aggron: 158-186 (45.93 - 54.06%) 47.66% chance to 2HKO

    Mega Aggron can use Thunder Wave to cripple Megados or phaze it out, but it can't threaten back directly so it's only a check.
  10. SuperMeep

    SuperMeep

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    Does anyone think Megados is bulky enough to be an offensive tank? It's defences aren't that bad.
    I don't know why I thought Goodra could wall it. I wasn't thinking straight. I can remember why I thought Goodra could wall it, but I don't think I was thinking about Goodra when I said Goodra. I can't quite remember. Oh well.
    Edit: Oh, I remember, it was Chestnaught.
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  11. Silver Scrapes

    Silver Scrapes

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    Mold Breaker lets EQ MegaDos get past Rotom-W now.

    Sub/DD/Waterfall/EQ anyone?
    Tathens likes this.
  12. All-ice

    All-ice

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    Hi guys :)

    I'm running Adamant Blaziken
    252 Attack/Speed 4 Hp with Life Orb
    Sword Dance/Baton Pass/Flare Blitz/High Jump Kick

    I want to Baton Pass to Gyarados(Mega) once my Blaziken is about to die. Can anyone give me a good ev spread to give to Gyarados?

    I was thinking something along these lines 200 Hp/252 Attack/56 Speed. Once he comes in he'll get an Intimidate off and take any Physical move Blaziken was suppose to get hit with. I should have at least one Speed boost when I Baton Pass and maybe a Sword dance as well.

    Would Waterfall/Earthquake/Dragon Dance/Stone Edge be a good set for the Receiving Gyarados?
  13. Miao

    Miao

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    The moveset is pretty much your standard offensive gyrados, so no problems there. I'd suggest sacrificing some attack for HP, just because you want to be more bulky, the offensive boosts you get from blaziken or a DD will make up for the slight loss in attack, and you can't KO significantly more things by adding in more attack in this case.

    You could probably even skip Dragon Dance for Taunt in this case, your biggest fear is being phazed out, and you want to avoid losing all of your boosts that you inherited.
  14. Divergent

    Divergent

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    I've been extremely successful with Mega Gyarados running a mono attacking resttalk DD set, but lately I've been running a mixed all out attacking DD Gyarados that seems to have pushed this guy to his full potential.

    DD Mix Mega Gyarados
    Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
    Ability: Intimidate (Mold Breaker)
    IVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
    Nature: Naughty/Naive
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake/Outrage/Substitute/Taunt

    This Gyarados serves as a terrifying wallbreaker with enough bulk to take a few hits and obliterate unprepared teams. Base 155 Attack is nothing to be laughed at, and the fact that Mega Gyarados has uber-worthy bulk and the ability to get off an Intimidate means that it can force switches and snag and opportunity to set up right off the bat.

    After +1, Mega Gyarados has the ability to dent the entire metagame with Waterfall/Outrage besides anything named Ferrothorn or Skarmory.

    However, one commonly overlooked aspect of Gyarados's changes as it goes Mega is a +10 increase to his base Special Attack, going from a meager base 60 to a somewhat usable base 70. However, this slight increase gives it much needed power, as it now receives the opportunity to 2HKO it's biggest walls, Ferrothorn and Skarmory. Use it as a late game cleaner or a wallbreaker for other threats, but either way, Mega Gyarados has no hard counters this generation.

    The last moveslot truly comes down to preference, as both Earthquake and Outrage have their own perks. Earthquake hits Azumarill, who would threaten Gyarados with a STAB Choice Banded Play Rough, while Outrage provides coverage against Flying type/levitating dragons, such as Lati@s and Dragonite. Note however that Gyarados can set up on Azumarill as long as it is locked into Waterfall, Superpower, or Aqua Jet, as a STAB Choice Banded Play Rough does a huge amount of damage even at -1. Substitute/Taunt allow Gyarados to set up on certain walls and avoid status, but this set is designed for wallbreaking and denting teams as quickly as possible.

    As for natures, Naughty is preferable as it gives Gyarados a considerable buff in power, meaning that it can retain its wallbreaking capacity without even having to set up. Naive has very little use outside of allowing Gyarados to outspeed base 130s, +1 Jolly Dragonite, and +1 Timid Heatran. Naughty/Naive are prefered, as they preserve Gyarados's Special Attack while allowing it to set up on physical attackers after Intimidate.

    As for teammates, this Gyarados needs something that can deal with whatever its last move doesn't cover. If Earthquake is used, a strong Fairy type should be used to cover for Gyarados's lack of coverage against Dragons. Choice Banded Azumarill is a great choice, as Gyarados breaks through what Azumarill can't muscle through while Azumarill packs a Dragon immunity and still applies immense offensive pressure. Ironically, if running Outrage, Azumarill becomes this set's number 1 enemy, so a strong Azumarill check is needed. Amoonguss checks Azumarill almost flawlessly this generation, as it boasts resistances to both of Azumarill's STAB attacks, Superpower, and Regenerator, meaning that it can take repeated onslaughts from Azumarill. A defog user such as Latias is appreciated as well; entry hazards have a greater negative impact on Gyarados than its opponents, as it will be OHKO/2HKOing them regardless. Latias is also a great check to Rotom-W, who threatens both regular and mega Gyarados with Volt Switch and Thunderbolt. Gyarados's job is more to clear a path for another physical sweeper than anything; Gyarados and Azumarill's excellent synergy cannot be stressed enough. They overcome each others' walls, becoming a dangerous pair of attackers.

    Edit: I think I got a bit carried away with the analysis. I've been lurking for far too long :]
  15. SuperMeep

    SuperMeep

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    Hahahaha. know the feeling.
  16. All-ice

    All-ice

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    I think you're forgetting about Mold Breaker .... Rotom-Wash isn't a problem anymore with Earthquake.
  17. Divergent

    Divergent

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    All Rotom-W variants threaten regular Gyarados regardless, and Scarf Rotom-W outspeeds and kills/cripples even Mega at +1. To say that Rotom-W is "not a problem" is a bit of an overstatement IMO.
  18. SuperMeep

    SuperMeep

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    Do people really scarf rotom that much? I don't see it very often, or at all.
  19. Divergent

    Divergent

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    ~10% of all Rotom-Ws are scarfed in the XY metagame atm
  20. SuperMeep

    SuperMeep

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    huh. in PS?
  21. Scoopapa

    Scoopapa
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    I tried a few different M Gyarados build and by the far the most success I had was this:

    252 HP / 156 Def / 100 Spe, Impish

    Waterfall
    Earthquake
    Dragon Dance
    Substitute

    Even without atk investment, MGyara's atk is about the same as a fully invested jolly gyara. More efficient EV spreads are surely available, as the one I have posted is somewhat arbitrary in terms of speed. I posted it because its the one I used, but you could either remove 12 speed EVs for def and (i think) hit all the same speed tiers or change the nature to jolly to outspeed base 115 after a DD and scarf 100 after two. Gyarados certainly has the defenses to survive one scarfed attack and reach +2/+2. Still, due to intimidate on its normal form and the fact that gen 6 more physical than special at this point, investing in defense seems to be the better option.

    I should note that the team I used it on was designed to keep a lot of pressure on Grass-types and thus facilitate its sweep. I think this is a wise decision for any team looking to use Mgyara to sweep.
    Shy Glizzy likes this.
  22. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    I pretty much always used Scarf Rotom in Gen 5, and I've found myself picking it right back up again in Gen 6. The ability to annihilate speedy stuff like boosted Gyarados is wonderful, and it has the typing and bulk to switch in easily. The only change is, I ended up dropping Hidden Power Ice for Will-o-wisp, giving up the ability to kill Dragonite and Garchomp directly but retaining the ability to cripple than and gaining the ability to cripple Kangaskhan and Aegislash, the two biggest threats to my team. Using a status move with a Choice item seems silly, but a super-fast burn lets it mess up fast opposing threats before getting killed itself.

    It has to play a bit differently now than it used to, but it's still an excellent interference Pokemon.
  23. deluge

    deluge

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    Gyarados is one of my all-time favourite Pokemon but I don't care much for the Mega. Improved numerical bulk is somewhat offset by lack of Leftovers and Intimidate, it is now weak to Fighting and Fairy, no longer immune to Ground, and has a worse secondary STAB move than Gyarados has with Bounce...it's too much.
    -Bulky Gyara has Intimidate + Leftovers and better defensive typing than Megados
    -Offensive Gyara has Moxie + Life Orb and the same speed as Megados
    Granted DD Megados, has a small perk of being able to hit Rotom-A with Earthquake.
    This would have been quite a huge deal if its speed had been boosted to base 90 or so.

    IMO, RestTalk might be one of the few things Megados could do better because:
    -greater natural bulk vs pokemon that switch into it
    -lack of Electric quad weakness achilles heel
    -lack of SR weakness makes switching less costly
    -Moldbreaker: RestTalk takes two moveslots so it's handy.

    RestTalk
    Impish Intimidate/Moldbreaker Gyarados@Gyaradosite: Waterfall | Dragon Tail/Earthquake | Rest | Sleep Talk
    Tank hits and hit back. Dragon Tail for shuffling or Earthquake for coverage and scaring Rotom-A.

    Riskier:
    RestTalk DD (Crodos)
    Impish Intimidate/Moldbreaker Gyarados@Gyaradosite: Dragon Dance | Waterfall | Rest | Sleep Talk
    At least Mold Breaker means Megados isn't stopped in his tracks by Water Absorb or Dry Skin.
  24. Kejmur

    Kejmur

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    I really don't think it's better unless you mean for special walling, which Dark provide some interesting resistances for (Psychic, Dark, GHOST while also having great Ice, Fire and Water resistances as well), because for physical walling Water/Flying is better (Fighting, Bug, Earth Immunity) and Intimidate makes it bulkier on this side as well. Although specially defensive RestTalk MegaGyarados may be interesting to use, something worth to try I guess (especially with this 95/130 special bulk which should allow him to take even some SE hits). Although for example normal Gyarados still takes better on Infernape, something that MegaGyarados struggles to do with Fighting weakness.
  25. asterat

    asterat

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    I kind of don't like mega gyarados. Being weak to fairy, fighting, and bug without any compensation in crunch makes it so easy to get worn down. Also no lefties. Even restalk sets have crappy defensive typing so I would rather use normal gyara and my mega for something else.

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