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Pokémon Gyarados

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by azureleaf17, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. deluge

    deluge

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    Yeah, substitution of Dark-typing for Flying hurts more than it helps defensively but the lack of Rock weakness makes a little lemonade out of the lemon.
    Also the higher natural bulk helps in taking neutral hits from Pokemon that switch into Megados.
    Granted, that is of dubious value since most Pokemon that come in on it will want to use SE attacks.
    So yeah, it's basically outclassed by its ordinary form.
  2. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    The only advantage I see that Mega-Gyara has over regular Gyara is Mold Breaker Earthquake destroying Rotom-W (helpful for Talonflames).
    Other than that, regular Gyara has better resistances, better STAB (Bounce > Bite, which crushes Grasses better), can wield other items like Leftovers or Life Orb or Lum Berry, and better 'setup sweeper' abilities in Intimidate and Moxie.
  3. CWW

    CWW

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    Yeah I tried to justify MegaGyara in my bulky offense team, but even with the increased bulk, without leftovers, it can't do its job properly, namely taking hits and forcing switches over the course of a game. Reststalk is the only reliable way to recover its health and I can't justify a wish passer since they either have better options (Togekiss), share weaknesses (Vaporeon), have mediocre presence (Sylveon) or are impossible in the real world (Blissey).
  4. scodic

    scodic

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    Looking at the gen VI usage statistics, I was quite surprised to see that 47% of the time, people mega evolve Gyarados. It prevents the use of a held item, and mold breaker overwrites moxie. The Gyarados I use is this one(for singles...) and it takes out mega evo ones.
    Gyarados @ life orb 252 attack, 88 hp, 170 speed
    Ability moxie, moves aqua tail, stone edge, dragon dance, ice fang.
    It gives it great coverage, and if it sets up with dragon dance and takes out one or 2 ememies, almost nothing can withstand it. Its also useful that it resists almost all commonly used priority moves...
  5. Kairyu_Gen1

    Kairyu_Gen1

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    Even last gen, I used intimidate over moxie. This gen, he can now use intimidate AND have another ability (albeit a very circumstantial one). Your set's a great blast from the past, but I find Gyarados's worth comes from his bulk AND power, and that's why I always run a gyaradosite.
  6. scodic

    scodic

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    To each his own, but I still personally prefer Moxie, since its always useful, not just mostly useful, and it can have multiple uses with no switching.
  7. TheReflexWonder

    TheReflexWonder

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    A Gyarados that doesn't hit anything after KOing an opponent is a significantly more common scenario than Intimidate not affecting the match.
  8. Kairyu_Gen1

    Kairyu_Gen1

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    Sorry if I was trying to diss Moxie, the ability to get free boosts when you revenge kill is great. But with the special nerf and the new Assault Vest making special attacking less effective (albeit not much), something to shut physical attackers down is pretty significant
  9. scodic

    scodic

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    The truth is, intimidate is better against physical(obviously) and moxie is preferred elsewhere, so it just comes down to personal preference and if the rest of your team can either handle physical quite well, or is vulnerable to physical.
  10. Kairyu_Gen1

    Kairyu_Gen1

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    I've been running an intimidate Gyarados with an assault vest goodra and leftovers Aegislash. Goodra attracts physical attackers, which can be walled by a physically defensive Aegislash, and when they try to counter Aegislash (almost always with earthquake, but sometimes with fire blast), I get a clean switch in with gyarados. Sometimes I won't even mega evolve until I need a late game sweeper. I realize this set won't last that long as people will figure out more effective counters to Aegislash (I'm mostly afraid of pursuit), and goodra is already getting outclassed in the special department, but I'll find other ways to abuse unprepared gamers.
  11. EdgeHead

    EdgeHead

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    Does anyone think Gliscor + Specially Defensive MegaGyarados would be a decent defensive core? The two sync up great type-wise, with Gyarados resisting Water and Ice attacks and Gliscor taking Bug, Fighting, and Electric attacks (as well as status) but I'm not sure if MegaGyarados is cut out for that kind of role.
  12. Chaoswalker

    Chaoswalker

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    From what I've seen in my use, the biggest attraction of mega evolving is the bulk boost and sudden typing change for the dragon dance set. Suddenly becoming bulkier or losing rock/4x electric weakness can make a huge difference in your set up, or even prolong the sweep. Also gain ice resistance, if anyone cares. By the time this has occurred, you have gained new weaknesses, yes, but you also should be setup to sweep.
  13. TheFreezingInferno14

    TheFreezingInferno14

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    Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Fang
    - Waterfall
    ^
    My set up for Mega Gyarados. This move set is for single battles. Anyways, the power of Mega-Gyarados lies in its team mates. If you have a dual screener, Mega Gyarados can set up about 1 or 2 dragon dances while having about 35-75% HP left then beat up everybody it freakin' sees. Hey Mega-Scizor, EARTHQUAKE! Ba-BAM, about 70% damage done to the offensive ones. So that's what I can say about this.
    Kooltrex and Mentalist Swag like this.
  14. Sirya

    Sirya

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    Isn't Waterfall a better option over EQ? 80 BP + STAB = 120. EQ is only 100.
    Stallion likes this.
  15. Plasma.EXE

    Plasma.EXE

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    Is that 4 def EV's on bulky dance Gyarados gonna make much of a difference? Just wondering why it isn't put into something like more HP (or more speed if there are actually other people that put just enough speed to outspeed base 130 like DDance Dragonite or DDance Tyrantrum, you can outspeed them no matter what). I never used bulky dance Gyarados previous gens :x.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  16. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    It's worth noting that STAB Bite hits slightly harder than un-STAB Crunch, and un-STAB Crunch sees plenty of use.
  17. Toosuto

    Toosuto

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    First, it has Waterfall already. Second, why would you not have EQ on Megados??? It's better than canned whip cream!
    Kooltrex likes this.
  18. Matezoide

    Matezoide

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    I believe he is asking why use Earthquake against Mega Scizor when Waterfall hits harder.
  19. Aqua-Niki

    Aqua-Niki

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    Hey guys,
    I posted this on Kangaskhan's thread but no one answered so I suppose it was in the wrong thread.
    I'm new here and to competitive play too. I'm trying to make a team based on a core by sidakarya (Mega-Absol, mixed Aegislash and Gliscor).
    I was wondering about (non-mega) Gyarados to check Mega-Kangaskhan. Given that I have Aegislash on my team, do you think the opponent would throw me an EQ on the switch?
    If so, I was considering a physically defensive RestTalk set with Waterfall and Dragon Tail, with Leviator tanking quite well everything Mega-Khan can throw at -1 and phazing it. Problem is, would this Gyara be useless against everything else without DD?
    Also, if MKhan does PuP on the switch, Gyara is dead on the following Return (if I did my calcs right)...
  20. Jin White

    Jin White

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    I'd really like to talk/ask about the merits of using Adamant versus Jolly. I'm not such an experienced battler, but I'm devoted to making (Mega) Gyarados my primary sweeper, and I've been working to get him an optimal EV spread. My initial reaction was to give him Adamant, because a 10% boost on that 155 base attack is monstrous, but I'm beginning to wonder if it's superfluous and if the speed is more important.

    I'd initially EV'd him just to outspeed positive nature Greninja after a boost, to avoid the ubiquitous u-turn against the Mega. In that case Adamant gave better overall stats with a spread of 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Speed. This gives the Mega a devastating 449 attack stat before a DD.

    On the other hand, the suggested Jolly spread of 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Speed brings the attack down to 409, with the huge boon of outrunning Timid Jolteon (& Mega Gengar and the other base 130s) at +1 and a bit more bulk.

    I guess my question is whether that 449 attack stat is needed, or if it's pretty much irrelevant when we're talking an attack over 600 after one boost either way. I'd love to hear opinions on Adamant versus Jolly nature for this guy.

    252 Speed with Jolly is a waste. After Jolteon/Mega Gengar with 168 EVs, you're not outpacing anything terribly relevant or threatening. You're still going to lose to all the same scarfers, like (last gen's) Terrakion/Keldeo, U-turn Lando/Jirachi/Thundy what-have-you. The only thing I can think of is Modest Scarf Rotom-A (you lose to Timid scarf no matter what), but even that only needs 200 EVs in speed with Jolly. The rest should go to bulk.

    EDIT: to be fair, you do need max speed Jolly to get the creep over Jolly Dragonite and the other base 80s, if that's a concern at all. On the other hand with Mold Breaker Ice Fang I doubt D-nite poses too much of a threat.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
    Kooltrex likes this.
  21. Anartya

    Anartya

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    Well Adamant can do this:
    +1 248+ Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 209-247 (51.73 - 61.13%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    248+ Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 260-306 (92.19 - 108.51%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
    248+ Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 280-330 (106.87 - 125.95%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    248+ Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash: 164-194 (50.61 - 59.87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    248+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 336-396 (93.07 - 109.69%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO
    +1 248+ Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 156 Def Klefki through Reflect: 160-189 (50.31 - 59.43%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Jolly does 6~10% less in these situations. I find very few scarfers nowadays, more bulky offense and less opportunities to setup DDance as the opponent just switches to their counter, so I prefer immediate power.
  22. Jaroda

    Jaroda

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    130 is a good speed tier to beat. If you're concerned about the power, then choose Moxie instead of Intimidate and simply nab a kill or two before Megavolving. +1 Gyarados is certainly capable of such. Your speed remains the same but you'll get an extra boost to compensate for going Jolly, and Megavolve at the right opportunity. I think outspeeding Mega Gengar and Megavolving in the same turn to be able to hit with Mold Breaker Earthquake is a pretty good idea. I was going to say run enough speed to outrun scarf Rotom, but you'll need +2 no matter what to ensure that. People won't know you're carrying a Megastone and be less inclined to think so if you don't evolve right away. This could be useful against an incoming Rock or Ghost attack.
  23. Toosuto

    Toosuto

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    Gotta say, after breeding/leveling/training my Gyarados... it's my favorite Mega.

    I think the trick with it is to gauge when to evolve it. About 3/4 of the time I end up DD - DD - sweep away without the need of mega evolving. If a threat comes in with its 4x weakness to electric OR Gengar/Rotom-W shows up, then it's time to evolve. It's all about when... if there IS a when. I believe that is how this mega was designed. Not a lot of people tend to go with that kind of play style, so they instantly shrug it off and make a "bad mega give me worst rating NA" thread on Smogon.

    As for teammates that match well with it, I have had amazing success with a bulky Sylveon or Clefairy with Wish. Get Gyarados' health back up and tag the opposing poke with an incoming intimidate to boot. Not to mention, these two fairies are beasts at the moment.
    PhoenixClaw and Talpr0ne like this.
  24. Jin White

    Jin White

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    Awesome calcs, thanks for that. The 2HKO on Azumarill is a big one.

    I'm still so torn haha. Even more food for thought: Jolly Aqua Tail does more damage than Adamant Waterfall. I'd say it's seriously worth considering on Jolly sets, to make up for the low power of its STAB.

    252 Atk Gyarados Aqua Tail vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 342-404 (94.73 - 111.91%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO (at 90% accuracy = 62% chance to OHKO, still higher than Adamant Waterfall)

    Is the reward worth the risk? What do you think?

    100% agree. The mega-evo is basically a green 1-UP mushroom to let Gyarados get past its counters, and not a standalone mon. There are very, very few moves that get an OHKO on BOTH Gyarados and Mega-Gyarados. Not even Specs Jolteon nor E-belt Thundy-T gets a guaranteed OHKO on 0 HP / 0 SpDef Mega Gyarados with T-bolt, which is completely amazing when you think about how you want to build your spread.

    What are you running, Adamant or Jolly?
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
  25. Toosuto

    Toosuto

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    I really like Adamant. Limits the number of DD needed to sweep and can still outrun many threats.

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