1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Hail in Reverse (Trick Room + Hail Offense)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by PTJon7, Jun 14, 2013.

  1. PTJon7

    PTJon7

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    553
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    For a long time I've found Hail to be a really underwhelming force in UU, with only Hail Stall being a viable form of usage for Hail. I decided it was time for me to try and make a viable offensive Hail team for myself when I saw a really cool Choice Band Abomasnow set on someone else's RMT. I've been a long time fan of Trick Room in UU, as it can be a very potent force if used correctly, so I thought I'd try to put these two offensive styles together. I manage to make this team pretty resistant to Hail damage, only Kingdra actively loses health from being in on Hail. This team is far from perfect but I've had a ton of fun using it and would love any advice I can get on making it better.


    Abomasnow
    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow @ Choice Band
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    • Wood Hammer
    • Ice Punch
    • Earthquake
    • Ice Shard
    The main attraction of this set is the surprising power of Abomasnow's Banded Wood Hammer, 2HKOing even things that resist the attack. I configured it to be more of a Trick Room sweeper but I'm beginning to think it would just be better of sweeping outside of Trick Room. Ice Punch is very rarely used, if at all now that I think about it, so if there is another attack that could go there in it's place I would be all for it. Priority attacks are always nice to have on a team, and Ice Shard can be quite useful for revenge killing weakened sweepers.


    Rotom-F
    [​IMG]
    Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    • Blizzard
    • Thunderbolt
    • Volt Switch
    • Trick
    Rotom-F is the team's designated Blizzard Spammer and revenge killer. Thanks to it's BoltBeam STABs I don't feel that it needs any other coverage moves, and Trick is very useful for crippling special walls coming in to tank Blizzards. While having a Scarf user is nice I wonder if Rotom-F would be better of with Specs or a Life Orb instead. It's damage output isn't that great, but it does enjoy being able to fire off STAB Blizzards in the Hail. Rotom-F is one of the two non-Trick Room sweepers on this team.


    Kingdra
    [​IMG]
    Kingdra @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    • Waterfall
    • Outrage
    • Dragon Dance
    • Rest
    RestoChesto Kingdra is the other sweeper on this that is not reliant on Trick Room. Kingdra also serves as an excellent offensive check to Fire types, being able to tank any Fire attack in UU and start setting up. Thanks to Rest + Chesto Berry Kingdra only fears walls that can phaze it, no statuses cause it any real problem. Thanks to Kingdra's excellent STABs the only thing that completely walls it is Empoleon, which can be easily deal with by Rotom-F or Cofagrigus.


    Slowking
    [​IMG]
    Slowking @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    • Surf
    • Psyshock
    • Nasty Plot
    • Trick Room
    One of the two Trick Room setters of the team and a good answer to Fire, Water, and Fighting types. Its pretty rare for Slowking to set up a Nasty Plot and sweep on its own, I usually just use it to set up Trick Room and switch out. Thanks to Slowking's good bulk and access to Regenerator it can quite reliably set up Trick Room multiple times during a match if it needs to. This slot was originally taken by a Sash Magic Guard Duosion, but I found it to be too weak to be worthwhile.

    Cofagrigus
    [​IMG]
    Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
    Trait: Mummy
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 2 Spd
    • Shadow Ball
    • Hidden Power [Fighting]
    • Trick Room
    • Nasty Plot
    The other Trick Room setter of the team and a big threat to a lot of UU once it sets up. Cofagrigus also provides the team with some handy immunities, especially to Fighting. I find Cofagrigus to be a really crucial member of this team, it helps patch up some weaknesses and give the team some more general bulk. Once Cofagrigus fully sets up it can decimate weakened or frail offensive teams, as Shadow ball can pretty easily OHKO any sweeper that doesn't resist it.


    Escavalier
    [​IMG]
    Escavalier @ Choice Band
    Trait: Overcoat
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    • Megahorn
    • Iron Head
    • Pursuit
    • Sleep Talk
    The power of Choice Band Escavalier is astounding, so powerful it can come close to even OHKOing walls. Very few sweepers can take a hit from this thing, and anything that comes in on it will receive a lot of damage. Escavalier is the teams primary Trick Room sweeper, and for good reason. Sleep Talk is also very useful, as nothing else on the team would remotely want to take a Sleep Powder or Spore (except maybe Kingdra).


    That's the team, thanks for reading and please give any advice you've got it is all greatly appreciated.
    Importable:
    Show Hide

    Abomasnow (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Wood Hammer
    - Ice Punch
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard

    Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Blizzard
    - Thunderbolt
    - Volt Switch
    - Trick

    Kingdra (F) @ Chesto Berry
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Waterfall
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Dance
    - Rest

    Slowking (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
    - Surf
    - Psyshock
    - Nasty Plot
    - Trick Room

    Cofagrigus (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Mummy
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 2 Spd
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Trick Room
    - Nasty Plot

    Escavalier (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Overcoat
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Megahorn
    - Iron Head
    - Pursuit
    - Sleep Talk

  2. Moose V

    Moose V

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    540
    Really quick:
    Give cof 11 attack IVs for 70 base power purposes.
    Give Ab 208 speed evs so it can outspeed and ohko (I'm assuming) gligar and suicune
  3. PTJon7

    PTJon7

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    553
    Right forgot about Cofag's IVs. That speed stat is perfect, Abomasnow should be much better off now. Thanks!
  4. dinodino56

    dinodino56

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    113
    Nice Team PTJon7 and Luvdisc also how did you make the banner.
  5. PTJon7

    PTJon7

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    553
    Hey thanks, all I used was Paint.Net (free photoshop-like program), found images of the pokemon and put them all together with an overlay of snow on top.
  6. Hynan

    Hynan

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Abomasnow , rotom-f and Cofagrigus. Wow , i dont know how much you peaked but looks awesome. Kingdra is great , but in my opinion i would change slowking and escavalier ( even knowing that slowking with regenerator its great for place trick room) . Maybe i make some changes and make it a really reliable team in top UU.
  7. Kitten Milk

    Kitten Milk pink hair don't care
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    796
    I very much like this team ;)

    The only things I think you should perhaps consider would be changing your trick room set-uppers. Bronzong could be an asset to this team, as it can set up Trick Room as well as give you some much needed hazards support. You could also run Trick Room Victini because it's kind of sex.

    The problem I have with OTR Cofag is that whenever I've used it, I rarely ever end up with many TR turns for something else to abuse. It works well as a TR sweeper in and of itself. For that reason you could perhaps just change the whole idea of the team to an offensive hail team that happens to feature an OTR Cofag in place of something like Sableye/Gothorita. If you were to do this, a logical conclusion would be to replace Esca with something like Weavile. Just a thought.

    If you do want to keep up the TR side of it, you may also want to shove a specs Glaceon where Rotom-F is right now. Rotom-F is a useful scarfer and revenge killer, but it feels out of place that it's probably your strongest special attacker yet can't operate in Trick Room.

    Overall though, this team functions perfectly well the way it is, and my suggestions are only that. Great job on the team.
  8. PTJon7

    PTJon7

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    553
    @ Hynan: Hey thanks, haven't really tried too hard to ladder with this team I find the whole process generally too stressful. What would you replace Slowking and Escavalier with? I'd obviously need to have atleast 2 Trick Room setters for this team to function and I think Escavalier is pretty awesome but I'm open to whatever advice you've got.

    @ Kitten: Thanks Kitten! I haven't really considered TR Victini before, the idea of it interests me so I'll be sure to try it out. Bronzong is a possibility, this team lacking Stealth Rocks is pretty hypocritical of me since I always tell people to have a Stealth Rocker =/ My main problem with Glaceon is that I don't want the team to become over-reliant on Trick Room, realistically I only want to set it up two or three times a match.

    Thanks for all the rates and kind words guys!
  9. Kitten Milk

    Kitten Milk pink hair don't care
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    796
    Just FYI, the TR set I used...

    Victini @ Life Orb/Charcoal
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 SpA/4 SpD - 0 Speed IVs
    Brave Nature
    - Trick Room
    - V-Create
    - Psychic/Blue Flare
    - Grass Knot
  10. PTJon7

    PTJon7

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    553
    Looks sweet, what do you think could be replaced by it?
  11. Hynan

    Hynan

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Well , i not recomment to put bronzong cause then your team would be very weak againts fire . In my opinion i think that change the whole idea of the team can be an option , cause not always its good to set up TR and the swap, but i didnt test that so much so its kind of a thought. TR Victini could be so good and also its something that most of the people dont expect.
  12. Trainer Au

    Trainer Au Insert custom title here

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    269
    Your teams are never a disappointment dude.

    I see a pretty glaring weakness to offensive Togekiss, but that is pretty rare, standard ParaFlinch Kiss still looks like a threat though. Raikou could help somewhat, probably over Rotom, although you lose your Blizzspammer and scarfer.

    I think you have most threats covered, the biggest problems are probably the lack of hazards and immediate speed.

    Bronzong has already been mentioned by that milk dude, which could also help with Togekiss but also adds to your weakness to fire. Something to look at could be Crustle or Omastar for hazard setters. Omastar is looking like the best as you get a solid fire resist, though that doesn't really help with your speed problem.

    Hope those ideas helped a bit.


    An item change for more power on Rotom could be LO and be changed to a SubSpilt set, I've never tried it but it would definitely be stronger than scarf.

    Instead of Ice punch on abom you could try Seed bomb, there wouldn't be any recoil, either that or protect, which would cause Shao to take HJK damage, although he probably will U-turn.


    Hope I helped dude, GL.


    EDIT: I just remembered Raikou gets weather ball, that might be a nice replacment for Rotom? Sounds freakin cool to me.
  13. PTJon7

    PTJon7

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    553
    Thanks Au.

    I agree, Rotom-F is my only real way to deal with Togekiss, luckily Blizzard hits it really hard. Abomasnow's Ice Shard would be a last ditch effort against it, or maybe just trying to revenge kill it with Kingdra.

    Omastar is a cool idea, I'll try that out and see how it goes because that sounds quite appealing to me.
  14. Trainer Au

    Trainer Au Insert custom title here

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    269
    What about this?
  15. PTJon7

    PTJon7

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    553
    Oh missed that, I'll try it but I feel like Rotom bringing a stab Blizzard to the table may be more beneficial than Raikou's higher offensive stats. I'll post back on my findings for the new tests.
  16. silenced

    silenced

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    242
    Don't replace Rotom-F. Without the ability to use trick, your team will be in serious trouble against BU Scrafty and Curselax (though curselax depends on what coverage move/lack of it runs), which would not be a good idea to be weak to.

    If anything, I'd say add Rhyperior to your team, though sadly it would probably be at the expense of escavalier (I really do like the snail, but it's hard to change much else). I can't suggest any particular EV's, but I'd say if it can survive a couple of aura spheres while hitting it hard with either rock blast or stone edge, that would be quite good. It would also add the benefit of SR to your team, as well as being reasonably good for abusing trick room with enough AtK EV's.

    Apologies I have no EV spread for the rhyperior suggestion, but I think you'll perhaps need a more customized spread of your own if togekiss is such an issue.

    Edit: Oh and before I forget, It's nice to see an offensive hail build. Really do like the team. Has been Luvdisc'd
  17. Sciztar

    Sciztar

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    Messages:
    259
    Hey PTJon7, nice Trick Room team I have some suggestions that might help this team.

    I've never been a fan of Choice items being used under Trick Room. While the power is great but being locked into move is strategically not good when playing with Trick Room. B/c once your opponents switches to a Pokemon that resist your locked move you are forced to switch out and run the risk of your opponent setting up on you or injuring your switch in.

    I feel that Escavalier is the weakest link. I feel that Slowking and Cofagrigus hit the same threats that Esavalier does. Now I recommend Trick Room Victini over Escavalier. This team somewhat struggles against special walls like Snorlax for example. With its powerful V Create you'll be tearing through walls and become slower under Trick Room.

    Here's the set I recommend:

    Victini @ Fire Gem
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Brave Nature
    -Trick Room
    -V-create
    -Brick Break
    -Fusion Bolt
  18. PTJon7

    PTJon7

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    553
    Hey thanks Sciztar, I'm actually trying out TR Victini over Escavalier right now using this set:
    Victini @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 SpA/4 SpD - 0 Speed IVs
    Brave Nature
    - Trick Room
    - V-Create
    - Psychic/Blue Flare
    - Grass Knot

    I'll try out the one you've recommended and see how the two stack up.
  19. Hynan

    Hynan

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    Why expert belt on victini?
  20. PTJon7

    PTJon7

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    553
    Just to ensure some things are OHKOs really, and I didn't want to go with Life Orb as that would compound pretty badly with Hail damage.

  21. CoolStoryBrobat

    CoolStoryBrobat The hero Smogon needs, but not the one it deserves
    is a Community Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    799
    This team's dope, man. I remember you facing my one team I had RMT'd last week with this, and honestly I thought you would have won that, till your internet connection pooped out. I really don't have any major suggestions, but you COULD try Swords Dance Abomasnow over the band set? Seeing as you got CB Escavalier, it may kinda hurt to have 2 band users on the same team. Abomasnow can find potent opportunities to set up on a few defensive Pokes, mainly the ones you'd usually switch it in on in any regular situation. The idea for Swords Dance Abomasnow was a set Psych017c came up with on a team I helped him build, and according to him it's pretty sick.

    Grass Types Learn SD! (Abomasnow) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 148 Spd / 252 Atk / 108 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Wood Hammer
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Swords Dance

    The EVs help outspeed Blastoise by one point and everything below, so you can get the jump on it and most other bulky/defensive Pokemon. You may not have a strong Ice Punch off the jump, but a +2 Ice Shard is quite potent in UU. It's a set worthy of consideration, in my opinion. If you do choose to run this, all credit goes to Psych017c though. The main best draw to this is the freedom to choose other moves while still hitting hard and maintaining a bit of bulk and speed at the same time.

    Best of luck with this team, dude!
  22. PTJon7

    PTJon7

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    553
    Thanks Brobat! SD Abomasnow is actually a nice idea, and I definitely have faith in Psycho's set building skills. Ice Punch wouldn't be missed at all really I don't think I've every actually used it in a battle...

    Update on testing and what not: Ended up keeping Rotom-F, Silenced summed up why keeping it is for the best. Victini is working out well, I think sharing that slot between Escavalier and Victini is what I'll do for now. Still kind of trying to find a good Stealth Rock user, I tried out Omastar but it didn't really work out as well as I had hoped.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)