Final Gambit Shedinja!
What can I say? I'm a sucker for the classics!
What can I say? I'm a sucker for the classics!
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- Thread starter Age of Kings
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Spiritomb giveaway wave 1....to my knowledge, I haven't seen people give away mixed Spiritomb yet.
What is everyone running on their Gengar? I personally would use a focus sash with shadow ball, dazzling gleam, dark pulse, and Dbond. The only reason to use dark pulse is imprison banette, which I've never actually seen. I also wonder if sucker punch would be useful at all, because it would be important to take out, say, banette before it can shadow sneak you to death. I honedtly don't think sucker punch is the greatest move for a special sweeper, but the fact that it gets increased priority makes it somewhat appealing to me.
252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Banette: 158-188 (92.3 - 109.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Gengar Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Banette: 56-66 (32.7 - 38.5%) -- 97.4% chance to 3HKO
(neutral 252 Atk only has a pitiful chance to 2HKO)
Up to you, really, Sucker Punch can be used as a finisher if Shadow Ball misses the OHKO but do keep it mind it has the benefit of priority Destiny Bond either way. But seeing that it's a 50-50 OHKO chance, it depends on whether you want to spend a team slot on that.
0 Atk Gengar Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Banette: 56-66 (32.7 - 38.5%) -- 97.4% chance to 3HKO
(neutral 252 Atk only has a pitiful chance to 2HKO)
Up to you, really, Sucker Punch can be used as a finisher if Shadow Ball misses the OHKO but do keep it mind it has the benefit of priority Destiny Bond either way. But seeing that it's a 50-50 OHKO chance, it depends on whether you want to spend a team slot on that.
For me the most useful set is Shadow Ball / Dazzling Gleam / Wisp / Sucker Punch with sash. SP helps you beat other gengars and get a bit more damage on spiritomb before you go down, cause it's a pain to deal with and extra damage is helpful. I haven't faced an imprison Banette / Sableye at all, so I've never even considered dark pulse.
The Gengar I was running had SB / Wisp / DBond / SPunch with a sash. I used hasty and ran enough speed to beat Mismagius (speed tying with other Gengar and Froslass seemed pointless) then put the extra EVs in attack, except I hadn't seen any Mismagius on the ladder so I was thinking of going mild with 124 speed (enough to beat 252+ Chandelure / Drifblim), which would allow for 132 attack EVs. Able to beat most things 1v1, I found it hard to pull off Destiny Bond though because of all the Shadow Sneaking going around, meaning that after Gengar had taken something out it was going to get revenge killed very easily, your only move was to use SP to soften up their revenge killer to make it easier to take out or switch and let something take considerable damage (unless you have 'tomb / 'eye waiting in reserve).
I really like Golurk, but I don't think Golurk offers very much that Aegislash or Banette don't already do a lot better. Golurk has no priority to make for its poor speed, so it'll be killed very quickly. The only thing I can think of is maybe Rock Polish?
Arfenond Golurk is actually one of the most powerful physical Pokemon in the tier. Banette does not hold a candle to CB and Golurk gets more powerful STAB. Band or LO EQ OHKOs 252 HP shield Aegi, does 80.8 - 95.5% to 252 HP Spiritomb (although is 2HKO'd by Sucker Punch), and does 53.5 - 63.6% to 252 HP / 0 Def Sableye when burned. 89/80/80 defenses are actually some of the most well balanced bulk in the tier although it will get 2HKO'd by most STAB.
Unfortunately, Golurk's main weaknesses are:
- the best check in the meta being required on every team (unless you want to use LOL FLY)
- easily outmaneuvered by faster Destiny Bond
- even with investment and bulk, Chandelure, MBanette, and Specs/LO/Mega Gengar threaten OHKOs while you have no priority
- everything but Cofagrigus, Spiritomb, -Speed Aegi, and Sableye actually using an attack move outrunning you
Trick Room solves most of these problems, although Prankster will be a pain. CB's power sounds plenty appealing and is the best use for Golurk imo. Save Assault Vest for Spiritomb because it can get better use out of it and Golurk needs CB/LO to get those incredible OHKOs/2HKOs. Without priority and extreme vulnerability to Destiny Bond, Golurk needs to go balls to the wall.
Unfortunately, Golurk's main weaknesses are:
- the best check in the meta being required on every team (unless you want to use LOL FLY)
- easily outmaneuvered by faster Destiny Bond
- even with investment and bulk, Chandelure, MBanette, and Specs/LO/Mega Gengar threaten OHKOs while you have no priority
- everything but Cofagrigus, Spiritomb, -Speed Aegi, and Sableye actually using an attack move outrunning you
Trick Room solves most of these problems, although Prankster will be a pain. CB's power sounds plenty appealing and is the best use for Golurk imo. Save Assault Vest for Spiritomb because it can get better use out of it and Golurk needs CB/LO to get those incredible OHKOs/2HKOs. Without priority and extreme vulnerability to Destiny Bond, Golurk needs to go balls to the wall.
Just a heads up, I know we're all hyped for OR/AS but registration is open: http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/information/b749dae2-4718-406d-8112-225f27e6030f
I'm registered and raring to go! I've had lots of practice on showdown and I'm confident that I can get a good record.
By the way, has everyone been using the same three pokemon? Like, has everyone found a team they're 'comfortable' with, or still experimenting, or changing who to bring depending on the other guy's team? For me, I started noticing which pokemon improve my win records the best, and eventually started only bringing them. Now I'm down to just using the same three every time with really specific EVs.
Pretty much same here. My core 3 work best and can't find much reason to swap.
I've been too distracted with other stuff to actually practice (And technically I still don't actually have time since I need to write two essays by next week), but so far my initial idea of 3 to use has expanded into 6 different options, so I'll have to see what works before it actually begins. Though, I imagine that no matter what it'll involve Banette.
Here'd the team I've bred and trained, anyone got any suggestions?
Gourgeist-Super @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Disable
- Trick
- Destiny Bond
Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Disable
- Dazzling Gleam
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- King's Shield
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Ball
- Destiny Bond
Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Imprison
- Recover
Chandelure @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Pain Split
- Overheat
- Will-O-Wisp
Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Phantom Force
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Sneak
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Disable
- Trick
- Destiny Bond
Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Disable
- Dazzling Gleam
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- King's Shield
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Ball
- Destiny Bond
Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Imprison
- Recover
Chandelure @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Pain Split
- Overheat
- Will-O-Wisp
Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Phantom Force
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Sneak
I agree, I tend to just use Overheat and Shadow Ball as there's no need for more coverage so the other 2 moves are kinda redundant and I struggled for inspiration.
I'm considering making Chandelure my scarfer though, as 80 speed is too low when facing something that isn't using priority, either speed tying with other Chandelures or getting outsped by all the Gengars.
I'm finding that I'm using Aegislash, Chandelure and Banette more than the other 3 on my team as I lead with Aegislash, tank a hit to activate weakness policy, fire off a boosted Shadow Ball then start spamming Shadow Sneak at +2, following that on with Banette for more priority shenanigans and using Chandelure as a switch in to Wisps.
Skore sludge bomb on Gengar is redundant coverage, maybe put in WoW or even Sucker Punch to pick off Sash users before they try and Shadow Sneak you. I don't think Banette needs both Sneak + Punch or Sneak + Force so out of the 3 options I think you could drop one, maybe put in Protect, Destiny Bond or Imprison/Disable. Also I know you only use Shadow Ball or Overheat on Chandy but Pain Split and WoW on a specs set isn't needed. Maybe put in Fire Blast and Flamethrower/Energy Ball in, a back up fire move is good incase Chandy is your last 'mon and you don't won't to lock yourself into Overheat... Everything else is good though!
I wouldn't bother... Even if you predict the switch and hit them with a boosted Pursuit, your opponent still gets their Aegislash counter in for free. I would rather just mindlessly click Shadow Ball to hit whatever the hell got sent in and either hit it again to finish it or pick it off with Shadow Sneak. Also all Aegislash run King's Shield / Shadow Ball / Shadow Sneak / _____ , do you really want your filler move to be Pursuit? Or would you rather Swords Dance, Autotomize, Substitute or even Shadow Claw? I know Pursuit is an attractive option as it will hit basically everything super effectively (who switches out their Sableye / Spiritomb?) but I just don't believe it's worth it really..
Also, Shadow Ball/Claw outdamage even a boosted Pursuit due to STAB.
Any tips on how to use spiritomb succesfully? CM rest talk often needs a "free" CM to get going in my experience, and Assault vest is is setup bait for several pokes Sableye and maybe Aegislash... any ideas or experiences? :)
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We've talked about Spiritomb extensively on the first few pages or so, so check that out. I honestly think it's going to be the best Pokemon in this meta, it hits everything except Sableye super effectively while being neutral to Ghost moves. It's not really set-up bait for anything since it can KO most ghosts quickly, mind sharing some examples of what you meant? I'm not sure if any of the ghosts in this meta set anything up, the only non-attacking move it really has to worry about is Will-o-Wisp.