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HardCore Metagame

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by X5Dragon, Aug 1, 2013.

  1. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

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    [​IMG]

    Approved by Articblast


    I found inspiration while playing Call of Duty's hardcore mode and I was like "imagine competitive pokemon with no aids and no healing?", and this came to life. Once a pokemon gets damaged, it stays damaged. It will resort to coverage moves and it's core abilities and stats to make it shine, while also eliminating as much outside factors as possible such as protect hax, type disadvantage caused by hazards, etc.



    Rules:

    *Each tier (eg. OU) follows the current smogon clauses and ban lists except for the following:

    Not Allowed:

    1) No hazards:
    Stealth Rock / Spikes / Toxic Spikes

    2) No boosting moves:

    Tailwind / Light Screen / Reflect / Flamecharge/ Charge / Curse / Skull Bash / Autotomize / Agility / Rock Polish / Amnesia / Tail Glow / Nasty Plot / Calm Mind / Harden / Withdraw / Cotton Guard / Acid Armor / Barrier / Defense Curl / Defend Order / Cosmic Power / Iron Defense / Shell Smash / Coil / Swords Dance / Meditate / Howl / Sharpen / Rage / Dragon Dance / Work Up / Bulk Up / Quiver Dance / Stockpile / Shift Gear / Minimize / Double Team / Focus Energy / Growth / Hone Claws / Acupressure

    3) No healing moves:
    Pain Split / Lunar Dance / Healing Wish / Moonlight / Morning Sun / Heal Order / Heal Pulse / Wish / Softboiled / Recover / Slack Off / Milk Drink / Roost / Swallow / Ingrain / Aqua Ring / Dream Eater / Mega Drain / Drain Punch / Absorb / Giga Drain / Leech Life / Horn Leech / Leech Seed/Synthesis/Rest

    4) No healing abilities:
    Dry Skin / Ice Body / Poison Heal / Rain Dish / Regenerator / Volt Absorb / Water Absorb

    5) Other banned abilities:
    Speed Boost, Prankster.

    6) No items.

    7) Banned moves: Substitute/Protect / Detect / Endure / Quick Guard / Wide Guard/Safe Guard

    8) No team preview.

    9) No auto-weather abilities:
    Drizzle / Drought / Sand Stream / Snow Warning


    Allowed:

    1) Status (T-wave, Toxic, etc.)
    2) Stat lowering moves (Screch, Snarl, etc.)
    3) Status healing moves and abilities (Heal Bell, Natural Cure, etc.)
    4) Abilities that lower stats (eg. Intimidate) or grant type immunity and/or circumstantial stat increases (Lightning Rod, Defiant) are allowed.
    5) Trick room and Gravity are allowed just like Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Sand Storm and Hail


    Unbaned Pokemon from Ubers to OU:

    Excadrill


    ----------------------

    Anyone who expressed interest in this thread can be considered as participating players :)

    You can play this at either the PS site and ask for a Hardcore (insert tier here) battle or go to Oia's new OM server:



    ----------------------


    Q: What pokemon should be banned or will rule their respective tiers, for example OU?


    ----------------------

    Promising Sets:

    [​IMG]
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Jolly
    252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP

    Iron Head
    Body Slam
    Ice Punch
    Fire Punch

    The paraflincher is here! With no healing allowed and secondary effects being doubled, this pokemon looks like trouble, not mention good stats all around. However, seeing that it has no scarf to aid it, it should be wary of pokemon with intimidate or outspeed it like Garchomp.


    [​IMG]
    Ability: Rough Skin
    Jolly/Naive
    252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP

    Earthquake
    Outrage/Dual Chop
    Fire Fang/Blast
    Aqua Tail

    Being fast, ability to hit steels hard and using coverage moves to take advantage of all situations is Garchomp's strongest points, he has to be wary though of those way ward ice shards...


    [​IMG]
    Ability: Flame Body
    Timid
    252 SpA, 252 Speed, 4 HP

    Fire Blast/Fiery Dance
    Bug Buzz
    Hurricane
    Hidden Power Ice


    No more SR, yes! This pokemon has an great speed stat and an amazing SpA, and will be seeking to hurt things as soon as it enters the field. Coverage moves replace QD as it also seeks to take advantage of every situation, just don't run into a pink blob and you'll be fine..



    [​IMG]
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    Brave
    248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD

    Gyro Ball
    Power Whip
    Thunder Wave
    Bulldoze


    Ferrothorn might be disadvantaged at first look, but since it's opponents can't boost their stats and it has no hazards to lay, it can go on to do other things, make physical pokemon suffer, paralyzing others and hitting hard with it's stabs.


    [​IMG]

    Ability: Natural Cure
    Calm
    4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD

    Aromatherapy
    Toxic
    Seismic Toss
    Flame Thrower


    With status being allowed and some powerful special attackers being released, you need all the support you can get (punny)! On the side, you pink blob can also annoy and surprise with both toxic and flamethrower being handy.


    [​IMG]
    (Courtesy of The Reptile)

    Victini
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly / Hasty
    - V-create
    - Bolt Strike
    - U-turn / Glaciate / HP Ice
    - Zen Headbutt / Trick Room / Brick Break

    This thing has no reason not to just come in and smash something in with a V-Create. Thanks to the lack of hazards, Victini is no longer punished for it's nuke-and-switch strategy. V-Create from a base 100 Atk is going to hurt something hard, while the powerful Bolt Strike will smash Water-types who try and resist V-Create. Last 2 moves are more or less filler, but they can be important. U-Turn lets you do chip damage while switching you out. Glaciate has a nice speed drop and hits Dragon-types that resist both Fire- and Electric-type moves. Speed drop lets you try and hit them twice, although you have to hit them on the switch HP Ice is slightly more powerful and accurate, but doesn't have that nice speed drop. Zen Headbutt is secondary STAB. Trick Room lets you use the speed drops from V-Create to you advantage. Brick Break is for Heatran, and only Heatran.


    -----------------

    Good luck!
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2013
  2. BlankZero

    BlankZero
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    I could see Sableye causing grief with WoW.

    Any thoughts on releasing some Ubers? I think Thundurus would be fun in this kind of setting.
  3. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

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    After further discussion I've decided to ban auto-weather abilities. With that being said, I don't see why we can't unban some pokemon like Excadrill and Thundrus. I'll update the OP.
  4. Snaquaza

    Snaquaza

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    What about support moves like Trick Room, Gravity and Tailwind?
  5. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

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    Tailwind is banned, but Trick room and Gravity are allowed just like Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Sand Storm and Hail, will update the OP thanks!
  6. The Eevee General

    The Eevee General Don't just Stantler there watching me
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
    Moderator

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    I love it--it takes the guessing out of Speed (for the most part). Is it Scarfed? No worries! Except + vs neutral and all that... but I digress, my point it still relative to things that can't outspeed a neutral Speed tier no matter what.
  7. SpartanMalice

    SpartanMalice

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    I actually wanted to suggest something like this... well, it was a little different. Just no hazards and no status, which is kinda different I suppose. But I like this. And the squirtle pic, too. Good thing manual weather isn't banned too. Might have fun with former SR weak mons.
  8. PokemonMasterDebater

    PokemonMasterDebater

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    So, just to be absolutely clear, are abilities like Volt/Water Absorb banned because they can heal the user?
  9. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

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    Yes, I'll add a more detailed description. No poison heal, absorb abilities or regenerator, basically any ability that allows the user to restore some of it's HP.

    Anyone who has interesting logs to show or sets that deserve to be added in the OP, be my guest.
  10. Nozzle

    Nozzle

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    I feel like every team will be Rain, Sun, Trickroom or Voltturn or maybe even mixtures of them :D. These platstyles are usually not that common so it will be fun :D (manual weather is not common)
  11. Celever

    Celever

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  12. PokemonMasterDebater

    PokemonMasterDebater

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    Funnily enough, Gravity and TR are now on the same footing with manual weather, since they both last 4 turns after being summoned no matter what. Volt-Turn seems like the most reliable of all those playstyles you mentioned, since it doesn't rely on a timer based field effect.

    Also, just to be sure, are stat boosting abilities like Speed Boost or Lightning Rod banned or allowed?
  13. The Reptile

    The Reptile ●▂▂●
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    BEEP BEEP
    Excuse me, big threat coming through!

    [​IMG]

    Victini
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly / Hasty
    - V-create
    - Bolt Strike
    - U-turn / Glaciate / HP Ice
    - Zen Headbutt / Trick Room / Brick Break

    This thing has no reason not to just come in and smash something in with a V-Create. Thanks to the lack of hazards, Victini is no longer punished for it's nuke-and-switch strategy. V-Create from a base 100 Atk is going to hurt something hard, while the powerful Bolt Strike will smash Water-types who try and resist V-Create. Last 2 moves are more or less filler, but they can be important. U-Turn lets you do chip damage while switching you out. Glaciate has a nice speed drop and hits Dragon-types that resist both Fire- and Electric-type moves. Speed drop lets you try and hit them twice, although you have to hit them on the switch HP Ice is slightly more powerful and accurate, but doesn't have that nice speed drop. Zen Headbutt is secondary STAB. Trick Room lets you use the speed drops from V-Create to you advantage. Brick Break is for Heatran, and only Heatran.
  14. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

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    I'm banning speed boost because it activates automatically, the other abilities however will be allowed and will update the OP accordingly. The reasoning being I don't manual weather to become all but useless...

    I got to say, that Victni set looks deadly, however its 100 base speed and the fact that it's a fire type move should somewhat keep it from being supreme atm. I'll post the set in the OP, and let's see if manual sun becomes too much of a threat because of it.
  15. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

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    I was giving everything else a serious thought, and it occurred to me that Prankster fitted the criteria of being an automatic boost and put a lot of pokemon at a disadvantage, and the fact every team will have either a Sableeye or a Thundrus-I (OU) to begin with. I'm banning this as well. In the OP I'll post the times were I will be on PS (and my alt name) for anyone who wants to try out the new meta, if anyone else wants to add his alt name no problem :)
  16. Monte Cristo

    Monte Cristo #Scotteh: ew, PHP
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Hey guys, I have recently programmed/implemented this meta on my unnoficial other metas server: http://50.159.57.193-8888.psim.us

    I hope we can make some really fun discoveries and see if stuff is broken or not ^_^. Also I manually banned each move and abillity on the banlist, so tell me if I missed any healing move or such, as I am willing to bug fix my coding at any time I am on. (Yes I did ban absorb lol)

    Also REALLY important note: Chose your item in the teambuilder, because my format for this metagame auto removes them, so you do have to have an item, but my format/code will auto remove it.
    X5Dragon likes this.
  17. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

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    Many thanks! Just had our first battle on the server, was a fun battle :)
  18. goodknife

    goodknife

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    can u list a full banlist of moves and abilities? thx man.
    X5Dragon likes this.
  19. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

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    Yes I'll I have it done by today thanks.
  20. goodknife

    goodknife

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    Not Allowed:

    1) No hazards (eg. SR).
    Stealth Rock / Spikes / Toxic Spikes
    2) No boosting moves (eg. Quiver Dance, Tail wind, etc). (i'll list only >= 50% chance self boosting moves)
    Tailwind / Light Screen / Reflect / Charge / Curse / Skull Bash / Autotomize / Agility / Rock Polish / Flame Charge / Amnesia / Tail Glow / Nasty Plot / Calm Mind / Harden / Withdraw / Cotton Guard / Acid Armor / Barrier / Defense Curl / Defend Order / Cosmic Power / Iron Defense / Shell Smash / Coil / Swords Dance / Meditate / Howl / Sharpen / Rage / Dragon Dance / Work Up / Bulk Up / Quiver Dance / Stockpile / Shift Gear / Minimize / Double Team / Focus Energy / Growth / Hone Claws / Acupressure / Charge Beam / Fiery Dance / Heart Swap* / Power Swap* / Guard Swap* / Psych Up*
    * = not always increase stats but can be used with Swagger and Flatter

    3) No healing moves (including leech seed, pain split, healing wish, heal pulse and drain punch).
    Pain Split / Lunar Dance / Healing Wish / Moonlight / Morning Sun / Heal Order / Heal Pulse / Wish / Softboiled / Recover / Slack Off / Milk Drink / Roost / Swallow / Ingrain / Aqua Ring / Dream Eater / Mega Drain / Drain Punch / Absorb / Giga Drain / Leech Life / Horn Leech / Leech Seed
    4) No healing abilities: no poison heal, absorb abilities or regenerator, basically any ability that allows the user to restore some of it's HP.
    Dry Skin / Ice Body / Poison Heal / Rain Dish / Regenerator / Volt Absorb / Water Absorb
    5) No speed boost or Prankster as an ability.
    Prankster / Chlorophyll / Motor Drive* / Quick Feet* / Rattled* / Sand Rush / Speed Boost / Steadfast* / Swift Swim / Unburden / Weak Armor*
    * = can considered as circumstantial stat increases abilities
    6) No items.
    7) No subs.
    Substitute
    9) No protect, Safeguard and the like.
    Protect / Detect / Endure / Quick Guard / Wide Guard (Safeguard is status prevent for 5 turns, not sure that you didn't misunderstood here)
    10) No team preview.
    11) No auto-weather abilities
    Drizzle / Drought / Sand Stream / Snow Warning
    X5Dragon likes this.
  21. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

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    Thanks, I have updated the OP now:

    1) No hazards:
    Stealth Rock / Spikes / Toxic Spikes

    2) No boosting moves:

    Tailwind / Light Screen / Reflect /Flame Charge/ Charge / Curse / Skull Bash / Autotomize / Agility / Rock Polish / Amnesia / Tail Glow / Nasty Plot / Calm Mind / Harden / Withdraw / Cotton Guard / Acid Armor / Barrier / Defense Curl / Defend Order / Cosmic Power / Iron Defense / Shell Smash / Coil / Swords Dance / Meditate / Howl / Sharpen / Rage / Dragon Dance / Work Up / Bulk Up / Quiver Dance / Stockpile / Shift Gear / Minimize / Double Team / Focus Energy / Growth / Hone Claws / Acupressure

    3) No healing moves:
    Pain Split / Lunar Dance / Healing Wish / Moonlight / Morning Sun / Heal Order / Heal Pulse / Wish / Softboiled / Recover / Slack Off / Milk Drink / Roost / Swallow / Ingrain / Aqua Ring / Dream Eater / Mega Drain / Drain Punch / Absorb / Giga Drain / Leech Life / Horn Leech / Leech Seed/Synthesis

    4) No healing abilities:
    Dry Skin / Ice Body / Poison Heal / Rain Dish / Regenerator / Volt Absorb / Water Absorb

    5) Other banned abilities:
    Speed Boost, Prankster.

    6) No items.

    7) Banned moves: Substitute/Protect / Detect / Endure / Quick Guard / Wide Guard/Safe Guard

    8) No team preview.

    9) No auto-weather abilities:
    Drizzle / Drought / Sand Stream / Snow Warning

    ===========


    After facing a Keldeo I think Amoongus works better as a SpD sponge and check:

    [​IMG]
    Ability: Effect Spore
    Modest
    240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpA

    Spore
    Energy Ball
    Sludge Bomb
    HP Fire/Ice/Ground
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2013
  22. urdrakonis

    urdrakonis

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    This sort of looks like the OM of my dreams...

    Guts users look like they'll enjoy this meta. The loss of the orbs hurts but the number of status abusers is likely to increase. With team preview gone, your opponent will have to be more cautious throwing around status, so that's kind of a buff too.

    Quick feet might be pretty useful too, since it's the only other ability I can think of right now that increases speed. The only viable user is Ursaring though, who only reaches ~343 speed with a +nature, still outsped by base 108s.
  23. Adonzo

    Adonzo

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    With the removal of Speed Boost, Prankster, Regenerator, auto-weather, and boosting moves, you could probably safely bring down Thundurus-I, Tornadus-T, and Blaziken from Ubers in addition to Excadrill.
  24. AWailOfATail

    AWailOfATail

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    Since it doesn't look like Rest or Hydration has been banned, Hydration + Rain Dance + Rest Vaporeon could prove to be a problem.
  25. urdrakonis

    urdrakonis

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    That requires a bit of setup, all for a hard-to-kill Vaporeon that is unlikely to win you the game or do any significant damage.

    Rest itself could be a problem though.

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