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Harder better faster ubers

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Vileman, Oct 27, 2013.

  1. Vileman

    Vileman

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    331
    Hello everyone, im Vileman and this is a ubers team i made a while ago with some help, and with the recent ladder reset i decided to use it and it actually did very well in ladder, peaking 1rst (Proof) although i did got lucky versus a certain player (hi Sweep). It has also won some tournament battles, but not enough to talk about it too much. This is a standard team with only 1 set that isn't standard. As i suck at making introductions, here is the team!
    AT A GLANCE
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    TEAM IN DEPTH
    [​IMG]
    Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Spd / 6 HP / 252 Atk
    Jolly Nature
    - Taunt
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Punch
    I lead with this 99.9% of the time. Its just an amazing poke to set up hazards early game, due to his speed and taunt to prevent being taunted. Speed ties with other deoxys are annoying, and so its magic coat. Evs are made to be fast and to do most damage to ferrothron/forretress and OHKO genesect without rain (There is still people in ladder who thinks scarfgene its faster than deo lol!)

    [​IMG]
    Kyogre @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Drizzle
    EVs: 228 HP / 252 SAtk / 28 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Water Spout
    - Thunder
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    Inspired by this RTM, i decided to try real men modestspecs kyogre and oh my god it didnt disappoint. Its so easy to press water spout and watch something die that its not even fair. With choice specs kyogre 2HKOes everything, and with the evs in HP its never ever OHKO by anything except stuff like zekrom. Its also pretty nice to OHKO ekiller no matter what with hydro pump, who is a big threat to this team. Ice beam nails dragons and hydro pump its for when im low on hp.

    [​IMG]
    Genesect and his gang @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Download
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Atk
    Naive Nature
    - U-turn
    - Bug Buzz
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder
    Genesect its a very good poke in this meta; with him i have no trouble at all with darkrai, mewtwo, lati@s or DD quaza. I like running specially based version cause it can work under sun in case i lose weather war, and bug buzz can is a cool cleaning move late game with the download boost. U-turn its very spammable as its free momentum, ice beam nails dragons, flamethrower gets other genes scizor forry and co changed it for thunder, hits lugia/kyogre harder . I might try out physical version but i'd like to know why should I.

    [​IMG]
    Darkrai @ Life Orb
    Ability: Bad Dreams
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Dark Void
    - Dark Pulse
    - Focus Blast
    - Thunder
    I was previously using sub+leftovers darkrai, but this set just wrecks too much. The power life orb gives with thunder coverage its just amazing, kyogre no longer can switch into you, neither can Ho-oh, and whatever thinks it can switch into you it will just be sent to sleep. Focus blast accuracy sucks but its worth it as it hits crucial pokes for supper effective damage like dialga and ferrothorn, and dark pulse its mandatory STAB.
    [​IMG]
    Latios (M) @ Soul Dew
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Roost
    Latios server for this team as a DM nuke and as a good kyogre check; Calm Mind it's only used if i get a free chance to use it, and at +1 nothing, nothing likes getting into the almighty draco meteor. Psyshock hits kyogre on his weakest defense and most importantly chansey who its a pain for my team. Its also a good move to clean up late game, as you cant do that with DM.


    [​IMG]
    Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
    Ability: Multitype
    EVs: 252 Spd / 6 HP / 252 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Focus Blast
    - Judgment
    - Recover
    Spinblocker and sweeper, fully offensive CM arceus can get through most teams pretty easily if they lack darkrai. IT must be played carefully though, as poison and paralysis can really mess him up. There arent many things that can stop him, the biggest problem is focus miss and chansey.

    The biggest threats to this team are Chansey, only full health kyogre gets near the 2HKO, but apart from him only latios can hit the blob hard with psyshock but will get a status on the way, or darkrai can mess around with dark void and subs, but its generally a pain.
    As mentioned, Ekiller can be troublesome if kyogre is low on health ad cant tank the extremespeed and kill back with h.pump, and genesect isn't strong enough to revenge kill after it survives the extremespeed.
    The lack of spinner its also a pain, as toxic spikes can prevent arceus from sweeping and hazards in general are annoying.
    Blaiziken (if he wins weather war) can be a pain without latios and weather, as his stabs hit everything hard and at +2 (dont know how he could on or what he could set up though) he can just go on and sweep.

    Well, that's my team! I hope this wasn't such a pain to read (I tried hard to not show off that my english sucks ;-;) and i hope you liked the team, i had fun using it this gen n_n. Suggestions are appreciated, and thanks for reading!
    Importable
    Show Hide

    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Download
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - U-turn
    - Bug Buzz
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder

    Kyogre @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Drizzle
    EVs: 228 HP / 252 SAtk / 28 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Water Spout
    - Thunder
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam

    Latios (M) @ Soul Dew
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
    - Calm Mind
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Roost

    Darkrai @ Life Orb
    Ability: Bad Dreams
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Dark Void
    - Dark Pulse
    - Focus Blast
    - Thunder

    Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
    Ability: Multitype
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Focus Blast
    - Judgment
    - Recover

    Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Taunt
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Punch

    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
  2. Gennosuke Fujiki

    Gennosuke Fujiki

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
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    I just took a very, very quick look over this thing, but I'd give Darkrai the extra 4 EVs to Defense, so that opposing Gene's will get a Special Attack boost rather than the Attack boost (Physical biased Gene is more common, and +1 U-turn OHKOs)

    Beyond that, I'll come back to give a full pledged rate when I find time.
  3. Shaymin 492

    Shaymin 492

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
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    As you mentioned, EKiller is a pain (+2 Silk Scarf OHKO's Kyogre most of the time I think), but it rarely can setup against your team. It's nice to see a sub darkrai (not one of those weird sash midgame cleaners). Very good team, not much to say except that maybe Surf over Hydro on Kyogre since Surf OHKO's Arceus after SR and 1 layer of Spikes (I'm pretty sure) and the hydro misses can lose you the weather war. Also, you might want to creep Kyogre a little bit a lot, I'd say 172 Spe to outspeed most Lugia so you can get the OHKO, but this is a really small thing, so it doesn't matter much. One last thing, did you intend for the team title to have a sexual connotation?
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  4. Vileman

    Vileman

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    331
    About darkrai, yeah never thought About that ill change it later, thanks :]
    About changing kyogre's speed, ill probably wont as the bulk is way more useful than just outspeeding lugia who ill just end up losing to specs ice beam, anda 172 evs less in hp its a considerable loss in bulk.
    And no, the title is a refference to the song harder better faster stronger of daft punk.
  5. RotomPoison

    RotomPoison

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2012
    Messages:
    1,219
    What I don't know is why people make a team and consider Genesect and automatically make it a bad special version that wasn't even that good in OU. It weakens your U-turn to the point that you can't even 2HKO stuff like Mewtwo with it without the attack boost. Iron Head is not a bad move at all, especially with Arceus Fairy and Xerneas. (obviously switching in is dangerous cause Arceus can carry Fire Blast and +2 Xerneas will kill almost anything)

    Point is make Genesect physical.

    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Download
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SAtk
    Naive Nature
    - U-turn
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Beam
    - Explosion/Blaze Kick

    Don't use Dragon Dance Latios. Just don't. He isn't ever going to sweep so don't bother. Focus on its advantages over Mewtwo: blowing shit up with Draco Meteor, which makes DD a complete waste since you'll need to switch, and if you use Dragon Pulse why are you using Latios?

    Darkrai needs Nasty Plot, if you're going to use a Sub Darkrai you basically need it or its a waste. Put it over Focus Blast, if that doesn't make sense, think of it as a Dark Arceus with Dark Void (and higher speed then every Arceus), which is what it is.

    The reasons you listed using Arceus-Ghost for I see a RestTalk Giratina-O working better. It also does a great job at phazing and annoying people, which on the ladder, means you're a hacker for not dying to their Blaze probably no EV Blazikens Sky Uppercut. The set I'm talking about is

    Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk or SDef whatever / 252 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Dragon Tail
    - Roar

    Just keep the new sleep mechanic in mind that your sleep turns don't reset after switching (welcome back to OU Suicune)

    Give Kyogre 12 Speed EVs from the 4 SpDef and 8 from HP, and consider making Hydro Pump Surf since you really need a reliable attack and the power difference isn't worth it too much. Also Consider Magic Coat over Taunt on Deoxys-S. Good luck with the team.


    Edit: your team also hates Dialga so consider Arceus Fighting somewhere unless you find it easy to deal with.

    252 SpA Soul Dew Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 343-405 (100.58 - 118.76%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 SpA Soul Dew Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 246-291 (60.89 - 72.02%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  6. Donkey

    Donkey

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    527
    ok

    1. ignore the advice everyone else gives you in this thread
    2. Thunder > Substitute on Darkrai. Life Orb > Lefties. Try it, it fucks stall so hard.
    3. DD Latios ; _ ; --> Try CM/Draco/Psyshock/Roost to break Chansey and bulky Arceus
    4. Thunder > Flamethrower on Genesect. All you need is Bug Buzz to break Ferro.

    overall this is not a bad team, but it can have some issues with bulky steel types and bulky waters walling you if you can't get up hazards (Deo-S fails to get up more than SR vs a lot of teams.)
  7. Vileman

    Vileman

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    Sep 28, 2010
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    Donkey is dont know if i'll only listen to your suggestions, but your do look more constructive and i know youre a good ubers player so i'll be sure to test it out ;o Altho DD latios does sometimes work, i'd even suggest you to try it :] (ill tst out the set you mentioned anyways~)Thanks for the rate :D
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2013
  8. Hack He Must

    Hack He Must
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    I like the concept of the team, good job. Try Donkey's suggestions- in addition I'd suggest more speed on Kyogre, at least crank it up a bit to outspeed support base 90s (I prefer going full speed to check Sand Rush Excadrill but that's just preference). Be careful around Ekiller, it gets some chance to set up here and there- and you rely on Focus Blast to revenge kill it once it has set up. Good luck!
    Vileman likes this.
  9. ogasian

    ogasian

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    Jul 28, 2013
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    I agree with ev'ing Kyogre to beat out Adamant Drill, and I really like Kabutops or Terrakion to check ekiller, but idk where to fit it on.

    Oh and nice team!
    Vileman and Wepwn like this.
  10. littlelucario

    littlelucario

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
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    why does this dbz guy always start arguments, he did it in ou as well?
    also, can't you use agility instead of DD on latios and if you don't i suggest running this set:
    Latios (M) @ Soul Dew
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Psyshock
    - Thunderbolt
    - Dragon Dance

    this is b/c draco makes you switch out
  11. Vileman

    Vileman

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    Sep 28, 2010
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    Thanks for all the good comments! seems like almost everyone is agreeing on getting some speed into kyogre, so might as well test it. littlelucario mind explaining me why youre running tbolt? I'd test it but i'd like to see some reasoning behind it :]
  12. Sweep

    Sweep
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator

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    I don't agree with max speed Kyogre, as extra bulk can be very useful to survive attacks like +2 Espeed from Silk Scarf EKiller, and 24-28 speed is usually enough to outrun other base 90's on the ladder. Don't run NO speed though!
  13. Vileman

    Vileman

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    Sep 28, 2010
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    Pseudo bump: been veery busy irl, havent had too much time to test the team as PS has also been down(at least for me o.o). I have added imporatble in case anyone wants to use the team :]
  14. asterat

    asterat

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    Doesn't latios just he tailwind?
    Vileman likes this.
  15. Vileman

    Vileman

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    Wow, to be honest i didnt even knew it learned that, seems interesting ill test it out :D
  16. asterat

    asterat

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    Well slow done because on actual research he doesn't.
  17. ogasian

    ogasian

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    Jul 28, 2013
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    Hmmmm. The team seems pretty solid as it is but I think that Darkrai could be replaced by Kabutops. There are two major reasons for this: to better check Ekiller and to provide some form of priority. A well-played Ekiller can easily sweep your team. Ghostceus isnt exactly the best check, relying on Focus Miss and not even 2HKO'ing. Banded Kabu can OHKO with Low Kick after Rocks, provides priority in the form of Aqua Jet, and clean really damn well. While SubRai is a lifesaver and a dick, I feel that Kabu is just the better fit.

    Kabutops@Choice Band
    Trait: Swift Swim
    252 attack/252 speed/4 def
    Adamant

    Waterfall/Aqua Jet/Stone Edge/Low Kick
    glhf!
  18. Vileman

    Vileman

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    Sep 28, 2010
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    *bump* to say that i've tested donkey's changes and they've been doing good, the speed bump on kyogre hasn't been that useful but its kinda nice when i actually need it, and ogasian I don't really know if i like kabutops too much over darkrai, as its too reliant on weather and darkrai serves me as a primary counter to CM ghostceus who could otherwise go through my team with ease.
  19. littlelucario

    littlelucario

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    Jun 15, 2012
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    also i was using thunderbolt to use against opposing kyogre and uber flying types, but thunder is better since this is a rain team
  20. Roxer123

    Roxer123

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2013
    Messages:
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    From battle experience with you, I finally created courage to rate your team, so here it goes.

    As you said before, "Psyshock can hit the blob hard, but will get a status on the way", if you want this problem solved, change Roost to Refresh, with your experience, you should know that status is Latios achille's heel, so Refresh might aswell solve that problem and end the Toxic timer.

    Darkrai without Nasty Plot is kinda useless, it wont sweep anything, so change Thunder to Nasty Plot, if you're worried about the Life Orb damage, change it to Black Glasses or Leftovers.

    If played correctly, Choice Specs Kyurem-W can be a problem, so changing Thunder to Iron Head on Genesect will help you deal with him (if Latios is dead and cant nuke him).

    On Kyogre, add enough EVs to outspeed Latios,something like 104/56, Kyogre being outspeeded by everything can be annoying, and if a Kyogre Repellent comes in play (CM Latios + Thunder), he is as good as dead, so outspeeding that can be good.

    Even though Deo-S is the most predictable lead ever, there's no problem, since you ca just Taunt Darkrai trying to sleep him, the problem is with speed ties with other Deo-S, to fix that, change Fire Punch to Magic Coat, only change this if you arent that much worried with Genesect, it will solve the speed tie problem, but it might bring up the Genesect problem, but hey, at least you'll be able to setup 2 hazards, right?

    [spoiler]
    Latios: Refresh > Thunder
    Darkrai: Thunder > Nasty Plot; Life Orb > Black Glasses/Leftovers
    Kyogre: Speed creep to outspeed Latios
    Deos-S: Fire Punch > Magic Coat
    [/spoiler]
  21. Vileman

    Vileman

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    Roxer123 Interesting suggestions, but i dont think i can agree with them.
    About refresh>roost, its kind of what i need depending the situation. One move lets me switch into kyogre more than once, and the other helps me against status. I think that ogre itself its more of a problem than a paralysis; latios can still throw DMs even when paralyzed.
    Nasty Plot on Darkrai its kinda meh; darkrai its probably never sweeping as 100% of teams have something for it (scarfgene its vey, very common. And pretty much any scarfer can deal with NP darkrai) so im better off doing immediate damage to anything, and as i said, thunder nails ho-oh, kyogre and other stuff like gene (i dont like depenging on focus miss)
    About ogre outspeeding latios....when could that even happen? im not scarf, and latios run max speed 100% of the time.
    The last one does seem interesting, magic coat deo can be nice to always win vs other suicide leads, but being able to hurt forretress, ferrothorn, genesect and scizor its very nice, considering i never send deoxys after kyogre. Nailing this pokes help all of my team, especially genesect who makes latios and darkrai life's difficult.
    I might try out refresh>roost and magic coat<fire punch tho, thanks for the rate!
  22. Meowstic

    Meowstic

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19
    This is a great team. Very well thought out and practiced.
    Besides the overpowering number of thunders (I am assuming that you using Donkey's suggestions for they fix this problem), I do see one major flaw; your team is significantly special attack oriented. It appears to me that your only physical attacker is Deoxys, who is the lead of the team.

    For this team, I would consider replacing Latios for Zekrom:

    Zekrom @ Leftovers/Sitrus Berry/Life Orb
    Ability: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
    Naughty Nature
    - Bolt Strike
    - Outrage
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Volt Switch
  23. Roxer123

    Roxer123

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2013
    Messages:
    125
    I dont know if you ever used Nasty Plot Darkrai, but if you have, you'll see it actually makes a huge diference beetwen OHKOing and not OHKOing, and it actually depends on your ability to choose which pokemon you should use Dark Void on, because thats actually very important, if you just throw it in any pokemon to get a free Nasty Plot, Darkrai will get killed almost instantly, the first thing to note when making this choice is,what pokemon would he send if i switched into Darkrai?, am i faster than it?, after those questions are answered, if you are faster than the "killer", send Darkrai and sleep the killer, but if i sleep this pokemon, could i kill the pokemon he would send with ease?, using this type of thinking, and sleeping the one that would kill Darkrai, then you get a Nasty Plot. If you follow these Darkrai use rules, you might aswell just sweep through 2, 3 or even 4 pokemon.
    EXAMPLE:

    Support Chansey (In play)
    Lead Dialga
    Band Kyurem-W

    And you have

    Physical Genesect (in play)
    Sweeper Darkrai

    In this case, if you switch into Darkrai, the most Chansey can do is Toxic you, since you're faster than Chansey, he uses protect.
    Use this opportunity to switch into Darkrai.

    Support Chansey (In play)
    Lead Dialga
    Specs Kyurem-W

    And you have

    Physical Genesect
    Sweeper Darkrai (in play)

    Chansey will Toxic you, thats for sure, if he stays there, you'll be walled, so put him to sleep, forcing a change.
    When he changes Chansey, ho will he send?Kyurem-W, cause it's OHKO by Draco Meteor/Focus Miss
    Chansey gets healed due to Natural Cure.
    Since you're FASTER than him, put him to sleep!

    Support Chansey
    Lead Dialga
    Band Kyurem-W (In play) (Sleep)

    And you have

    Physical Genesect
    Sweeper Darkrai (In play)

    Dialga is the obvious switch.
    Now, use Nasty Plot, because: +2 252 SpA Darkrai Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Dialga: 424-500 (104.95 - 123.76%) -- guaranteed OHKO. and no Nasty Plot: 252 SpA Darkrai Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Dialga: 214-252 (52.97 - 62.37%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    With this extra turn, Dialga could just nuke Darkrai, and thats -1 sweeper for you.
    (BTW, this is why Focus Miss is actually an important move, and you might rely on it to win a battle, while Thunder doenst giveses that much of a great cover for Darkrai.)

    Support Chansey
    Lead Dialga (Faint)
    Band Kyurem-W (Sleep)

    And you have

    Physical Genesect
    Sweeper Darkrai (In play)

    Now, the only option is Chansey, he will Toxic you, we now have 7 turns (aprox.) to win.
    Use this turn to get another Nasty Plot. +3 252 SpA Darkrai Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 312-368 (48.59 - 57.32%) -- 94.14% chance to 2HKO.Thats -3 turns on your Toxic counter.

    Support Chansey (Faint)
    Lead Dialga (Faint)
    Band Kyurem-W (Sleep)

    And you have

    Physical Genesect
    Sweeper Darkrai (In play)

    Now:
    +3 252 SpA Darkrai Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem-W: 668-788 (170.84 - 201.53%) -- guaranteed OHKO.
    Congrats!You just won a battle because of Nasty Plot!
    So Nasty Plot is not a "meh" move if you know how to use Darkrai and make him last.
    And about the Kyogre outspeeding Latios, that was my mistake, I read Scarf instead of Specs (big monitor).

    One more tip, if you want to try an surprise factor on your oponent Deo-S, use this set:
    Deoxys-Speed @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SDef / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Trick
    - Magic Coat

    "Trick Deo-S?Whats this dues thinking lol"If you think like that, it's certain failure, use Trick on first turn vs opposing Deo-S. Now Magic Coat him, and then you setup hazards, since ALL Deo-S use Focus Sash, you'l now have a perfectly fine Deo-S, and a screwed up Deo-S on the other team!On the switches Deo-S will make, the Poke he switchs out will get the hazard damage, so it's a good surprise factor setup. But hey, i just made this up!
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  24. Vileman

    Vileman

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    Ok first of all, i dont need lessons on how to play the game. Ive played for a while now, i know how to predict and play. Also in your theorizing you mention: physical genesect which im not using. band kyurem-W cause you want to use that base 120 attack rite? and focus blast and dark void hitting 100% of the time. The thing with NP darkrai, its that youre not hitting hard before you get the boost, life orb nails common switch ins such as ho-oh and ogre (2 top tier pokemon, just giving examples) and hits them hard. Also, you never really know a pokemon set; you cant use dark void oh a poke youre not sure its not scarf (if you stay in vs a kyu-W without knowing his set, youre doing it wrong.) also, darkrai isnt finding a chance to set up on all games js, usually teams carry something to sleep like sleet talk ogre or gira (in my case i set up a fodder depending on the opponents team).
    Also, how am i going to use trick after using magic coat on a choice-locked poke ?_?
    Sorry if i sound rude but i just dont like NP darkai, its too situational and not worth it.
  25. Roxer123

    Roxer123

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    Oct 29, 2013
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    Thats why it's and ~example~ that could verywell happen to you!
    About the Trick thing, my bad XD, it's the reverse order. I already patched it up.

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