Hariyama (OU Attacking lead)

[ShinyAzelf]

Status: Done
GP Checked: 2/2

(Fatecrashers)

(bugmaniacbob)

I am taking over Hariyama for RaikouLover. I have taken the moveset, and started from scratch. Here it is!

[SET]
name: OU Attacking Lead
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: Close Combat / Low Kick
move 3: Payback
move 4: Ice Punch / Stone Edge
item: Toxic Orb / Flame Orb
ability: Guts
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 164 SpD / 92 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Hariyama is a Pokemon with lots of attacking power and bulk; its movepool is wide enough to cover the majority of common leads, while its superb HP allows it to emerge victorious from the exchange. Thanks to Fake Out, Hariyama can break the opposing lead’s Focus Sash while activating Guts and blocking status from leads like Smeargle and Roserade. Hariyama can then proceed to use one of its other three powerful moves to defeat the opponent.</p>

<p>Close Combat is your main STAB attack, dealing heavy blows to almost every lead. Low Kick is a good alternative, allowing Hariyama to hit most leads for the same amount of damage without the side-effect of lowering its defenses, although the drop in power is noticeable against leads such as Swampert and Machamp. Payback allows you to hit Azelf and Uxie super effectively while Ice Punch rounds out the coverage, annihilating leads such as Gliscor and Dragonite. Stone Edge is an alternative, allowing Hariyama to hit Flying-types out of the sky later in the game, but the ability to OHKO Gliscor with a Guts-boosted Ice Punch is usually too good to give up. However, Stone Edge allows it to take on Gyarados, one of Hariyama's biggest counters, later in the game, dealing 55% - 65.3% after Intimidate (assuming Guts has been activated).</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The main reason to use Hariyama over Machamp is because of its natural bulk. Hariyama has much more HP than Machamp, allowing Hariyama to invest EVs in its defenses and Speed, one thing Machamp misses out on. Hariyama has access to Fake Out, something that Machamp does not have, which allows Hariyama to break the opposing lead's Focus Sash before the pummeling begins, which is definitely a big bonus. Machamp, on the other hand, must bring the opponent's lead down to its Focus Sash before it can Bullet Punch, leaving it vulnerable to a counter switching in. With Hariyama as a lead, you can now utilize Machamp late game; Substitute Machamp makes a great partner to Hariyama. Machamp is usually checked by faster or bulky Pokemon such as Azelf, Heatran, and Gliscor; Hariyama can take them out at the start of the battle, thereby easing Machamp's sweep.</p>

<p>Metagross and Infernape are troublesome leads. Metagross has enough bulk to survive a Fake Out followed by a Close Combat, therefore Close Combat should not be so hastily used, as after the Defense drop Hariyama has a good chance of getting OHKOed by Meteor Mash. The best course of action against Metagross would be to Payback first, followed by a Close Combat to take it out. It should be noted however, that Metagross can beat Hariyama if it chooses to attack outright instead of setting up Stealth Rock. The same strategy applies to Infernape. Due to Infernape's faster Fake Out, Hariyama cannot break Infernape's Focus Sash; Hariyama must resort to using Payback on the second turn to break Infernape's Focus Sash, and then finish it off with Close Combat.</p>

<p>Starmie is a great partner to Hariyama as it checks Infernape and Metagross well. It can switch in on Infernape's Fake Out, Hydro Pump Infernape down its Focus Sash as Infernape sets up Stealth Rock, and then proceed to outspeed and kill Infernape with Rapid Spin while clearing the rocks. Starmie can also switch into Metagross as it uses Stealth Rock, then Hydro Pump for a 2HKO while Metagross fails to knock out Starmie with Earthquake. Starmie can then perform its spinner duties regardless.</p>

<p>The item Hariyama holds is up to the user’s preference. Flame Orb should be used if Hariyama is planning to stay on the field for a while, otherwise Toxic Orb is the item of choice. If the user opts for Close Combat as its main STAB move, then Toxic Orb should be used, as Hariyama won’t be staying in for more than two turns. On the other hand Flame Orb should be used in conjunction with Low Kick, as this variation of Hariyama is not likely to switch out fast, and Flame Orb's burn is more conducive to long-term survival than the accumulating damage of Toxic.</p>

 

[Setsuna]

After some thought, this thread is going to receive the go-ahead. Let me point out I few things that I'd like to see added / changed:

a) The Evs section belongs to AC, make sure you fix this appropriately.

b) The following sentence needs to be expanded: "<p> The main reason to use Hariyama over Machamp is because of its natural bulk. Hariyama has much more HP than Machamp, allowing Hariyama to invest EVs in its defenses and Speed, one thing Machamp misses out on. With Hariyama as a lead, you can now utilize Machamp late game. </p>" Primarily, the second part of the sentence should mention how SubMachamp can be an amazing partner for this set, and the benefits Machamp can obtain overall from the removal of Pokemon like Gliscor, Heatran, Azelf (etc.) that Hariyama will most likely cause.

c) Make sure you're not missing any "<p> </p>" tag in the paragraphs. Don't worry, Rising_Dusk will come later to make sure there are no problems with grammar-related stuff.

 

[ShinyAzelf]

Okay Setsuna. Thank you. I'm going to expand them and check them over.

Thanks!

 

[Aeron Ee1]

Can I still try to check this?

Blue for additions
Red for removals
Green Brackets for comments

Hide

I am taking over Hariyama for RaikouLover. I have taoken (haha) the moveset, and started from scratch. Here it is!

[SET]
name: OU Anti-lead
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: Close Combat / Low Kick
move 3: Payback
move 4: Ice Punch / Stone Edge
item: Toxic Orb / Flame Orb
ability: Guts
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 164 SpD / 92 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p> Hariyama is a Pokemon with lots of attacking power and bulk. Its movepool is large enough to take out the majority of common leads, while maintaining good shape. Thanks to Fake Out, Hariyama can break the opponent lead’s Focus Sash while along with activating Guts and blocking status from leads like Smeargle and Roserade (moved up here for a better flow). From there, Hariyama can use one of its other three powerful moves to defeat the opponent. </p>

<p> Close Combat is your main attack, dealing heavy damage to almost every lead. Low Kick is a good alternative, allowing Hariyama to hit most leads for the same damage, without lowering both its Defense and Special Defense, though it loses power against lighter leads like Swampert and Machamp. Payback allows you to hit Azelf and Uxie for a lot of damage while Ice Punch rounds up the coverage, hitting leads such as Gliscor and Dragonite for good damage who would wall this set otherwise (not actually incorrect, but I think it sounds better this way). Stone Edge is an alternative, allowing Hariyama to hit Flying types for more damage later in the game, but the ability to OHKO Gliscor (Guts activated) with Ice Punch is usually too good to give up (if it was, why mention it at all?). Fake Out breaks the opponent lead’s Focus Sash, while inflicting status on yourself, ensuring you do not get put to sleep by Smeargle and Roserade. </p>

<p> Attack EVs are maxed out so Hariyama can deal as much damage as possible to leads. (unneccesary) The Special Defense EVs allow it to never be OHKOed by Psychic from lead Azelf, while the 92 Speed EVs guarantee it to outspeed minimum Speed Tyranitar, and most while also outspeeding all forms of Machamp. (speed creep, zomg)</p>

<p> The main reason to use Hariyama over Machamp is because of its natural bulk. Hariyama has much more HP than Machamp, allowing Hariyama to invest EVs in its defenses and Speed, one thing Machamp misses out on. With Hariyama as a lead, you can now utilize Machamp late game. (You're changing this anyway so no changes)</p>

<p> Metagross and Infernape are troublesome troubling leads. Normally against Metagross, Hariyama would Fake Out to activate Guts, then Close Combat. However, Metagross has enough bulk to take a Fake Out + followed by a Guts Close Combat. Therefore, Payback should be used, and when Guts activates, Close Combat to take it out. Close Combat should not be used on the first turn, or else Metagross will be able to finish off very close to OHKOing Hariyama with Meteor Mash after the Defense drop. (you should mention that you only win if he sets up Stealth Rock. You lose if he attacks) Payback + Close Combat has a pretty good shot of taking out Metagross. The same strategy goes with Infernape. Due to his faster Fake Out, Hariyama cannot break Infernape's Focus Sash. Hariyama must resort to using Payback on the second turn to break Infernape's Focus Sash, and then finish it off with Close Combat (same as metagross). </p>


[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p> The item Hariyama holds is up to the user’s preference. Flame Orb should be used if Hariyama is planning to stay in for some time to do as much damage as possible. Toxic Orb is the alternative, if Hariyama isn’t going to be staying in the battle for long. If the user opts for Close Combat as its main STAB move, then Toxic Orb should be used, as Hariyama won’t be staying in for more than two turns thanks to the defense drops. Flame Orb complements Low Kick well, as Flame Orb does not damage you more than Toxic Orb after 3 turns, while Low Kick neglects the Defense and Special Defense drop, allowing Hariyama to damage the opponent for a longer period of time without resorting to switching out. </p>

 

[Megan_Fox]

This set needs to be renamed to attacking lead. Also any grammatical changes that are made really should be changed to black font, you currently have red and blue words in the writeup.

" Stone Edge is an alternative, allowing Hariyama to hit Flying types for more damage later in the game, but the ability to OHKO Gliscor (Guts activated) with Ice Punch is usually too good to give up."

Mention that stone edge lets you hit gyarados, probably hariyamas best counter.

when your listing the reasons why hariyama should be used over machamp, you need to mention fake out. sashed leads are able to switch out of Machamp as it bullet punches but for Hariyama, it gets to fake out before it starts dealing real damage which gives the opponent no such opportunity.

 

[ShinyAzelf]

Thanks Megan_Fox.

I have it all in black font. I've edited in the reason for Stone Edge, and the reason you stated about why Hariyama is better than Machamp. Thank you!

 

[Rising_Dusk]

I'd like QC to look over this one last time to verify that they're happy with the content before I move it to the GP stage. You don't have to stamp it or anything, just give me a thumbs up or down.

 

[Philip7086]

*thumbs up*

My only constructive criticism would be to add Pokemon who can switch into Metagross and Infernape leads, since those are the two that are mentioned who can beat Hariyama.

 

[ShinyAzelf]

All right, I'll add some teammates to deal with Infernape and Metagross.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Cool, this is now on the GP queue.

 

[Fatecrashers]

Our emotions we with difficulty smother
When GP checking duty's to be done

GP Check 1/2

Deletions
Additions

Hide

[SET]
name: OU Attacking Lead
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: Close Combat / Low Kick
move 3: Payback
move 4: Ice Punch / Stone Edge
item: Toxic Orb / Flame Orb
ability: Guts
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 164 SpD / 92 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p> Hariyama is a Pokemon with lots of attacking power and bulk; its movepool is large wide enough to take out cover the majority of common leads, while maintaining good shape its its superb HP allows it to emerge victorious from the exchange. Thanks to Fake Out, Hariyama can break the opponent lead’s Focus Sash while activating Guts and blocking status from leads like Smeargle and Roserade. From there, Hariyama can then proceed to use one of its other three powerful moves to defeat the opponent. </p>

<p> Close Combat is your main STAB attack, dealing heavy damage blows to almost every lead. Low Kick is a good alternative, allowing Hariyama to hit most leads for the same amount of damage without the side-effect of lowering its defenses, although the drop in power is noticeable against leads such as Swampert and Machamp lowering both its Defense and Special Defense, though it loses power against lighter leads like Swampert and Machamp. Payback allows you to hit Azelf and Uxie for a lot of damage super effectively while Ice Punch rounds up out the coverage, hitting annihilating leads such as Gliscor and Dragonite for good damage. Stone Edge is an alternative, allowing Hariyama to hit Flying-types for more damage out of the sky later in the game, but the ability to OHKO Gliscor (Guts activated) with a Guts-boosted Ice Punch is usually too good to give up. However, Stone Edge allows it to take on Gyarados, one of Hariyama's biggest counters later in the game, dealing 55% - 65.3% after Intimidate (assuming Guts has activated).</p>

<p> The main reason to use Hariyama over Machamp is because of its natural bulk. Hariyama has much more HP than Machamp, allowing Hariyama to invest EVs in its defenses and Speed, one thing Machamp misses out on. Hariyama has access to Fake Out, something that Machamp does not have, Fake Out allows you to break the opponent lead's Focus Sash before you start hitting them, which is a big bonus for Hariyama it allows Hariyama to break the opponent lead's Focus Sash before the pummeling begins, which is definitely a big bonus. Machamp, on the other hand, must bring the opponent's lead down to its Focus Sash before it can Bullet Punch, which means the opponent can switch out leaving it vulnerable to a counter switching in. With Hariyama as a lead, you can now utilize Machamp late game; Substitute Machamp makes a great partner with Hariyama. Machamp is usually checked by faster or bulky Pokemon such as Azelf, Heatran, and Gliscor; Hariyama can take them out at the start of the battle, thereby easing Machamp's sweep. </p>

<p> Metagross and Infernape are troublesome leads. Metagross has enough bulk to take a Fake Out + followed by a Guts Close Combat. Therefore, Payback should be used, and when Guts activates, Close Combat to take it out. Close Combat should not be used on the first turn, or else Metagross will be very close to OHKOing Hariyama with Meteor Mash after the Defense drop. Payback + Close Combat has a pretty good shot of taking out Metagross. Metagross has enough bulk to survive a Fake Out followed by a Close Combat, therefore Close Combat should not be so hastily used, as after the Defense drop Hariyama has a good chance of getting OHKOed by Meteor Mash. The best course of action against Metagross would be to Payback first, followed by a Close Combat to take it out. It should be noted however, that Metagross can beat Hariyama if it chooses to attack outright instead of setting up Stealth Rocks. The same strategy goes with applies to Infernape. Due to his Infernape's faster Fake Out, Hariyama cannot break Infernape's Focus Sash; Hariyama must resort to using Payback on the second turn to break Infernape's Focus Sash, and then finish it off with Close Combat. </p>


[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p> The item Hariyama holds is up to the user’s preference. Flame Orb should be used if Hariyama is planning to stay in for some time. Toxic Orb is the alternative, if Hariyama isn’t going to be staying in the battle for long. Flame Orb should be used if Hariyama is planning to stay on the field for a while, otherwise Toxic Orb is the item of choice. If the user opts for Close Combat as its main STAB move, then Toxic Orb should be used, as Hariyama won’t be staying in for more than two turns. Flame Orb complements Low Kick well, as Flame Orb does not damage you more than Toxic Orb after 3 turns, while Low Kick neglects the Defense and Special Defense drop, allowing Hariyama to damage the opponent for a longer period of time without resorting to switching out. Conversely, Flame Orb should be used in conjunction with Low Kick, as this variation of Hariyama is not likely to switch out fast, and Flame Orb's burn is more conducive to long-term longevity than the accumulating damage of Toxic. </p>

Don't let the swathes of red and blue discourage you, I basically jazzed up the prose a little bit since there were areas that sounded a bit repetitive. PM or VM me after these changes have been made and I'll give you the stamp.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Are we calling priority users that force suicide leads to die for the sake of SR (and achieve nothing more) Attacking leads now? I thought the above description was the definition for an Anti-Lead.

 

[ShinyAzelf]

Added paragraph on how to deal with Metagross and Infernape. That last paragraph needs to be GP checked twice! Thanks!

 

[bugmaniacbob]

GP Check on request

A few tweaks here and there. Watch your <p></p> tags, they don't seem to connect to the paragraph in certain cases.

GP CHECK (2/2)

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Hariyama (Attacking Lead)

[SET]
name: OU Attacking Lead
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: Close Combat / Low Kick
move 3: Payback
move 4: Ice Punch / Stone Edge
item: Toxic Orb / Flame Orb
ability: Guts
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 164 SpD / 92 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Hariyama is a Pokemon with lots of attacking power and bulk; its movepool is wide enough to cover the majority of common leads, while its its superb HP allows it to emerge victorious from the exchange. Thanks to Fake Out, Hariyama can break the opponent opposing lead’s Focus Sash while activating Guts and blocking status from leads like Smeargle and Roserade. Hariyama can then proceed to use one of its other three powerful moves to defeat the opponent.</p>

<p>Close Combat is your main STAB attack, dealing heavy blows to almost every lead. Low Kick is a good alternative, allowing Hariyama to hit most leads for the same amount of damage without the side-effect of lowering its defenses, although the drop in power is noticeable against leads such as Swampert and Machamp.(full stop) Payback allows you to hit Azelf and Uxie super effectively while Ice Punch rounds out the coverage, annihilating leads such as Gliscor and Dragonite. Stone Edge is an alternative, allowing Hariyama to hit Flying-types out of the sky later in the game, but the ability to OHKO Gliscor with a Guts-boosted Ice Punch is usually too good to give up. However, Stone Edge allows it to take on Gyarados, one of Hariyama's biggest counters,(comma) later in the game, dealing 55% - 65.3% after Intimidate (assuming Guts has been activated).</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

(I think you should change the position of Additional Comments to here, because the below two paragraphs deal with specific leads, so are more suited to AC than the main Set Comments. Also, Set Comments should really only be a few paragraphs at most, not four.)

<p>The main reason to use Hariyama over Machamp is because of its natural bulk. Hariyama has much more HP than Machamp, allowing Hariyama to invest EVs in its defenses and Speed, one thing Machamp misses out on. Hariyama has access to Fake Out, something that Machamp does not have, which allows Hariyama to break the opponent opposing lead's Focus Sash before the pummeling begins, which is definitely a big bonus. Machamp, on the other hand, must bring the opponent's lead down to its Focus Sash before it can Bullet Punch, leaving it vulnerable to a counter switching in. With Hariyama as a lead, you can now utilize Machamp late game; Substitute Machamp makes a great partner with to Hariyama. Machamp is usually checked by faster or bulky Pokemon such as Azelf, Heatran, and Gliscor; Hariyama can take them out at the start of the battle, thereby easing Machamp's sweep.</p>

<p>Metagross and Infernape are troublesome leads. Metagross has enough bulk to survive a Fake Out followed by a Close Combat, therefore Close Combat should not be so hastily used, as after the Defense drop Hariyama has a good chance of getting OHKOed by Meteor Mash. The best course of action against Metagross would be to Payback first, followed by a Close Combat to take it out. It should be noted however, that Metagross can beat Hariyama if it chooses to attack outright instead of setting up Stealth Rocks Rock. The same strategy applies to Infernape. Due to Infernape's faster Fake Out, Hariyama cannot break Infernape's Focus Sash; Hariyama must resort to using Payback on the second turn to break Infernape's Focus Sash, and then finish it off with Close Combat.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The item Hariyama holds is up to the user’s preference. Flame Orb should be used if Hariyama is planning to stay on the field for a while, otherwise Toxic Orb is the item of choice. If the user opts for Close Combat as its main STAB move, then Toxic Orb should be used, as Hariyama won’t be staying in for more than two turns. Conversely On the other hand ('Conversely' implies the train of thought does not continue on the logical path, which is untrue here), Flame Orb should be used in conjunction with Low Kick, as this variation of Hariyama is not likely to switch out fast, and Flame Orb's burn is more conducive to long-term longevity survival than the accumulating damage of Toxic.</p>

 

[Fatecrashers]

checking the last paragraph on request

<p> Starmie is a great partner to Hariyama as it checks Infernape and Metagross well. It switches in on Infernape's Fake Out, then proceeds to Hydro Pump Infernape down to its Focus Sash as Infernape sets up Stealth Rock. On the next turn, Starmie can Rapid Spin to clear the Stealth Rock as well as knocking out Infernape. It can switch in on Infernape's Fake Out, Hydro Pump Infernape down its Focus Sash as Infernape sets up Stealth Rock, and then proceed to outspeed and kill Infernape with Rapid Spin while clearing the rocks. Starmie can also switch into Metagross as it uses Stealth Rock, then Hydro Pump is for a 2HKO while Metagross cannot fails to knock out Starmie with Earthquake. Starmie can then Rapid Spin the next turn perform its spinner duties regardless. </p>

Let's see this edited in please ^_^

man why did this get put in the queue if you havent even finished it...

 

[ShinyAzelf]

Sorry Fatecrashers. I have it in now. Its the second last paragraph. Should it be left like this, or should it be combined with the third last paragraph?

I'm sorry about the inconvinience, and thank you for GP Checking this.

 

[Fatecrashers]

Looks good to me. Consider this my stamp.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

man why did this get put in the queue if you havent even finished it...

He said that it had been finished! I agree that it's bad form to add entire extra paragraphs after the fact because it's mad lame.

Anyway, I just realized that apparently Hariyama doesn't have an OU analysis on-site (sigh), which somehow got overlooked when this thing passed QC and entered into the copyediting stage. That means that someone will need to write up an [Overview], [Team Options], [Optional Changes], and [Counters] section for this bad boy before I can upload it.

 

[69xanxus69]

Thunderpunch is a more reliable option to take out Gyarados and can be replaced with ice punch or stone edge, otherwise it looks really good! :)

 

[ShinyAzelf]

Writing everything Rising_Dusk asked me to. It should be done fairly soon :)

 

[Rising_Dusk]

ShinyAzelf wrote up some preliminary stuff for those sections I needed, and I will be tweaking them to work. I will use small pieces of what he wrote and upload this with my own writing for the rest of those sections personally grammar checked for quality assurance.

That means that I'm uploading this now. Uploaded.