Hariyama [Ready] (QC 0/3)

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Conkeldurr, eat your heart out.

Overview
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  • Great attack stat rips holes in Pokemon that don't resist its attacks.
  • Huge Hp stat somewhat mitigates sub-par defenses.
  • Low speed is a blessing on dedicated Trick Room teams.
  • Diverse movepool allows multiple roles.
  • Speed a liability outside of Trick Room, also slowest Fake Out user not named Kecleon or Scrafty.
  • Four moveslot syndrome.
  • Longevity greatly shortened by Guts and lack of reliable healing options.

Trick Room Utility
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name: Trick Room Utility
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: Close Combat
move 3: Feint / Knock Off
move 4: Detect / Wide Guard / Rock Slide
ability: Guts
item: Flame Orb
EVs: 252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Nature: Brave

Moves
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  • Fake Out is the priority move of choice, and should be used to help teammates set up Trick Room.
  • Close Combat hits like a truck after Hariyama is burned, heavily damaging or KOing Pokemon that don't resist it.
  • Feint can be used to help teammates smash through Protect, while Knock Off gives Hariyama some much appreciated coverage against Psychic and Ghost types.
  • Detect allows Hariyama to protect against powerful attacks and can be used to safely wait a turn while Trick Room setters attempt to set up. Wide Guard can be used in a similar capacity, negating spread attacks. Rock Slide can be used if additional coverage is desired, as it takes care of Pokemon Hariyama otherwise couldn't touch, such as Mega-Charizard-Y and Volcanora.
  • Hariyama has a wealth of coverage options to further support its team. Heavy Slam can be used if the team struggles against Fairy-types, as it destroys all Fairies not named Mawile, Klefki, or Azumarill. Earthquake can be used specifically to combat Mega-Mawile. Fire Punch ruins Scizor's day, Ice Punch hits 4x weak Dragons hard, and Lightning Punch surprises and KOs Azumarill, whom like Mega-Mawile can survive any other move Hariyama runs and KO back with Play Rough.

Set Details
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  • The most reliable set Hariyama offers. Guts increases its damage output impressively, but its longevity suffers.
  • EV spread optimal to provide both increased bulk - to somewhat improve longevity - and give substantial attacking prowress.
  • 0 Speed IVs and Brave nature lower Hariyama's speed as far as possible, "outspeeding" neutral base 30 and faster Pokemon in Trick Room.
  • Adamant nature and 31 Speed IVs can be used when not using Trick Room, although this results in the set being strictly inferior to Hitmontop.
  • Flame Orb reliably burns Hariyama to trigger Guts, which also prevents the attack decrease typically associated with the status.

Usage Tips
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  • Trick Room is essential for this set to work properly. Hariyama's dismal speed and poor defenses result in faster Pokemon KOing it before it can attack outside of Trick Room.
  • Fake Out is very useful in giving Hariyama something to do outside of Trick Room and giving Trick Room setters a better opportunity to set up. It also can prevent status abusers from ruining Hariyama with priority status inducing attacks.
  • Once Trick Room has been set up, Hariyama becomes something of a hit man, taking down enemies that are checks and counters to the team's sweepers and busting down walls.
  • Due to its lack of recovery, multiple switches are seldom possible with Hariyama, but can be beneficial to rack up Fake Out damage and tempo gains.

Team Options
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  • Trick Room setters are required. Jellicent and Chandelure make great partners, both able to reliably set up Trick Room with Fake Out support (which they themselves do not fear) and the latter can mop up Psychic and Ghost types that trouble Hariyama.
  • Other Pokemon that can soak Psychic and Ghost types for Hariyama are also appreciated. Tyranitar and Mega-Mawile fit this bill nicely and also perform admirably on Trick Room teams. Pokemon that can deal with Talonflame's priority Brave Bird, such as Mega-Ampharados, are also great teammates.
  • Bulky sweepers such as Mega-Abomasnow can help clean up once Hariyama is done blowing holes in the opponent's team and help net KOs with spread moves that Hariyama would otherwise not achieve.
  • Talonflame also gets a mention due to its ability to attack first despite Trick Room and deal with Fighting-types that Hariyama cannot punch through.

Other Options
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  • Poor speed and poor defensive stats limit Hariyama's use outside of Trick Room.
  • Belly Drum is an option for a risky Hariyama set that uses Sitrus Berry and Bullet Punch. It requires considerable support (Spore works great with it) but has nearly unrivaled attacking prowess.
  • Choice Scarf Hariyama can run Sheer Power and pick from its variety of elemental Punches to surprise opponents. This set would fare better in singles metas, where being Choice locked is less of an inconvenience.
  • A ChestoRest set would allow Hariyama to use Bulk Up in an attempt to become a legitimate physical tank. This set is outclassed by the likes of Iron Fist Conkeldurr, which can run Bulk Up with much more reliable recovery in Drain Punch.
  • A gimmicky set involving Wake-Up Slap and Smelling Salts can be attempted on teams with a wealth of status abusers, but its lack of reliability makes it generally inferior to other sets.

Checks and Counters
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**Offensive Typing Advantage**
  • Priority Flying-type moves are the bane of Hariyama. All varieties of Talonflame OHKO Hariyama with their priority Brave Bird, although Hariyama running Rock Slide can KO one foolish enough to switch into it.
  • Hariyama does not fare much better against strong Psychic or Fairy-type moves, although it usually has the ability to OHKO users of the latter first in Trick Room if using Heavy Slam. No Hariyama stands much of a chance against Azumarill or Mega-Mawile, which survive Heavy Slam and can OHKO back with Play Rough.
  • Few Pokemon can hope to stall either Hariyama set either due to its coverage or raw power. However, Gliscor shrugs off Hariyama's attacks and can simply stall until burn damage takes its toll. Skarmory doesn't enjoy taking Close Combat, but can Roost if moving last.

**Status**
  • While no Hariyama running Guts fears burn, all become ruined if effected by another status. Great care should be taken to ensure Flame Orb does its job, either by targetting status abusers with Fake Out or simply not using Hariyama with those Pokemon in play.
  • Top offenders include Amoonguss (in Trick Room), Klefki, and Thundurus.

**Attack Control**
  • Hariyama does not enjoy attack control. Intimidate greatly reduces its utility, typically forcing a switch.
  • Arcanine and Landorus survive -1 Rock Slide and hit back hard, and Mega-Manetric laughs at -1 Earthquake and hits back hard with STAB attacks of its own.

**Utility Moves**
  • Tricking a Choice Sash cripples any Pokemon in Trick Room, but common users such as Rotom-W can usually be KOed by Hariyama before they have the opportunity.
  • Ironically, Hariyama rarely minds being Faked Out itself, except in circumstances where it has low health.
  • Knock Off used against Hariyama before its item is used generally cripples it.
 
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I am pretty sure Thick Fat is Hariyama's main niche as a Fighting-type. As an offensive guts user, it is almost 100% outclassed by Conkeldurr.

Also scratch that Belly Drum set, because it needs so much support for a sweep to actually work. Plus, it sucks that Bullet Punch is its only priority attack. You can mention Belly Drum in other options.

Remodel this and I will give it a more in-depth check.
 
I am pretty sure Thick Fat is Hariyama's main niche as a Fighting-type. As an offensive guts user, it is almost 100% outclassed by Conkeldurr.
Conkeldurr is definitely a better tank despite having less Hp due to its significantly better defense. However, no Conkeldurr set hits as hard as Guts Hariyama using Close Combat and Conkeldurr doesn't have access to Fake Out. Conkeldurr will almost always be using Iron Fist anyway, which forces it to use punch attacks that don't have spread damage. Guts Hariyama doesn't mind running attacks like Rock Slide and Earthquake that are better in the doubles environment.

Some calculations:

Guts Conkeldurr vs 252 / 0 Rotom-W - Hammer Arm: 88.1 - 103.9%
Iron Fist Conkeldurr vs 252 / 0 Rotom-W - Hammer Arm: 91.4 - 108.2%
Guts Hariyama vs 252 / 0 Rotom-W - Close Combat: 94.7 - 111.5%

So Guts Conkeldurr's advantages over Hariyama are higher defenses, STAB priority, and recovery through drain punch. Hariyama uses spread attacks, hits harder, and has Fake Out. I don't think one is clearly better over the other.

Also scratch that Belly Drum set, because it needs so much support for a sweep to actually work. Plus, it sucks that Bullet Punch is its only priority attack. You can mention Belly Drum in other options.
It does require very particular support, but a single Spore from Amoonguss can be enough to net it a few KOs in Trick Room. It would be nice if I could slash Belly Drum in the Physical Attacking set, but it really needs that set of moves and Sitrus Berry to be effective. I'll remove it and mention it in other options, although I remain convinced it can work.
 
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well people on irc also like guts so this is the set we agreed on:

name: Trick Room Utility
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: Close Combat
move 3: Feint / Knock Off / Rock Slide
move 4: Detect / Wide Guard
ability: Guts
item: Flame Orb
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Nature: Brave

  • So it using feint, Hariyama's main niches over top are guts and being slower.
  • Also yea belly drum in oo
  • Since i see i have way less knowledge over hariyama than the rest of the qc i will let them take it from here lol.
 
Sure. The problem I have with Feint / Detect / Wide Guard as the main options is that it becomes too much like Hitmontop. In trick room you have less time to be messing around with Wide Guard and Detect because you will eventually run out your trick room counter. I like them as other options, just not the main options. I'd like to see what other people think as well.
 
The currrent EV spread is inefficient, defense-wise:
investing in your defenses instead allows you to take hits better overall since
Hariyama's HP stat is already pretty dang high.

EVs: 252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 SpD

is optimal, according to the tool below.
http://pokestudio.altervista.org/defevs.php

I think Mega Mawile should be mentioned as a partner:
it's a very good (Trick Room) 'mon that provides Intimidate to help Hariyama in the matchup against Talonflame,
which is a huge help since you don't have Detect as a main slash (although I think it should get a slash somewhere because good move is good)
 
I think Mega Mawile should be mentioned as a partner:
it's a very good (Trick Room) 'mon that provides Intimidate to help Hariyama in the matchup against Talonflame
Intimidate brings Talonflame's Brave Bird down to a 25% OHKO against Hariyama. Since Mega-Mawile's typing is otherwise not great against Talonflame, I think that would be a poor reason to include it on the team. It is a good Trick Room Pokemon though, and should abuse the Psychic, Ghost, and Fighting-types Hariyama worries about.
 
Please review changes to the set... restructured to conform more to Lolkomori's suggested set, although I think Rock Slide and Knock Off should not be slashed on the same moveslot.
 

Mizuhime

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Minor nit pick - Toxic Orb is better for Hariyama since longevity isn't it's strong point and Toxic Orb does less damage for the first two turns, while Flame Orb is going to end up doing more, obviously Toxic Orb does more in the long run, but you don't aim to be around for a long time with Hariyama

6 +12.5 < 12.5 + 12.5

I also feel Ice Punch should be slashes > Rock Slide, Un STABed and a spread move isn't going to be doing nearly anything while Ice punch is going to allow you to nail things like Landorus-t and other Pokemon weak to Ice such as Amoonguss, who loves to mess with Trick Room, and Latios.

Usage tips: Hariyama is generally only used on dedicated Trick Room teams with lots of offense. In this case Feint becomes one of Hariyamas best moves, stopping protect on the opposing team so Pokemon like Chandelure can reliably hit the opponent instead of the opponent burning Trick Room turns with protect/detect. Using Feint well can often mean the difference between a win or not.

Other Options: Please take out the last point n_n

Checks and Counters: Under utility moves, add taunt. I know Hariyama doesn't have a reason to be scared of taunt outside of wide guard, but due to it effectively relying on Trick Room, if it isn't set up Hariyama isn't going to be doing much.



(QC Approved 1/3)
kjata30
 
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