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Hariyama - UNRESERVED [QC 3/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Mazz, Sep 9, 2012.

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  1. Mazz

    Mazz Might make a comeback
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    [pimg]297[/pimg]

    Hariyama

    [Overview]

    • BW2 gave Hariyama new toys in Superpower, Iron Head, and elemental punches.
    • Receives competition from Throh as the bulky Fighting-type in Rarelyused.
    • Massive HP stat and Thick Fat help patch up its shallow defenses, but Hariyama still cannot face off one-on-one with the powerful attackers in the tier.
    • Ties for 6th highest attack stat in the tier with base 120 Attack, second-highest of Fighting-types in the tier.
    • Sheer Force now has a pool of moves to pick from.
    • Still holds a valuable niche as a bulky and powerful attacker, and should be considered when building a team.

    [SET]
    name: Status Orb
    move 1: Close Combat
    move 2: Stone Edge
    move 3: Fake Out / ThunderPunch
    move 4: Bullet Punch
    item: Toxic Orb / Flame Orb
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 172 SpD / 84 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Status orb + Guts brings Hariyama's massive Attack stat to scary levels without the need for setup.
    • Close Combat is Hariyama's choice of STAB, sporting incredible damage once Guts is activated. 2HKO's Tangrowth, Steelix, and Quagsire with Stealth Rock factored in.
    • Stone Edge gains super effective coverage on Fire- and Flying-type switch-ins such as Entei, Moltres, and Sigilyph, and acts as a solid neutral hit.
    • Fake Out is to guarantee that Hariyama's status orb activates safely. In conjunction with Bullet Punch, Hariyama's dual priority is useful for beating many frail Pokemon. ThunderPunch may be used over Fake Out, as it does considerable damage to Slowking and acts as Hariyama's best attacks against Qwilfish, whom otherwise take this set on with ease.
    • Bullet Punch is handy for picking off weakened opposing Pokemon, patching up Hariyama's non-existent speed.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Choice of status orb depends on the role Hariyama is playing. Toxic Orb allows Hariyama to perform as a hit-and-run attacker, while Flame Orb will allow Hariyama to stay in longer after 3 turns.
    • EV placement maximizes Hariyama's damage output and enables Hariyama to outspeed unboosted base 60 Speed Pokemon and anything slower. The remaining EVs are put into Special Defense to make as much of Hariyama's shallow bulk.
    • Because of its low Speed, paralysis support from Ferroseed or Druddigon is appreciated. This allows Hariyama to get the jump on a wide variety of Pokemon, breaking the opponent for other sweepers to take advantage of.
    • Hariyama likes having entry hazard support from Pokemon such as Steelix and Qwilfish, as the residual damage turns many of Hariyama's 2HKOs into OHKOs.
    • Physically-defensive Pokemon, such as Uxie and Qwilfish, can quickly put a stop to Hariyama's sweep. Strong special attackers such as Magmortar or Moltres make for good teammates as they can quickly dispose of such physical walls, giving Haryiama more room to sweep. In turn, Hariyama can take down the special walls and open holes for special attackers to begin their sweeps.

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Whirlwind
    move 2: Force Palm
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Careful / Impish
    evs: 12 HP / 244 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Bulkier approach to Hariyama that focuses on survivability and team support.
    • Whirlwind allows Hariyama to function as a reliable phazer, racking up hazards damage on the opponent.
    • Force Palm is STAB and can spread paralysis, allowing the rest of Hariyama's team to outspeed certain threats.
    • Rest keeps Hariyama healthy, allowing it to tank multiple hits from moderately powerful attackers, such as Manectric and Slowking.
    • Sleep Talk prevents Hariyama from being dead weight while asleep and can bypass Whirlwind's negative priority, but does have a risk factor to it.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • EVs give Hariyama a Leftovers number while maximizing its shallow bulk.
    • Teammates that can lay hazards, such as Steelix, Omastar, Crustle, or Ferroseed are manditory. Without them, this set loses a lot of its merit. Steelix and Omastar resist Flying-type attacks aimed at Hariyama. Ferroseed appreciates having Hariyama sponge Fire-type attacks.
    • Appreciates having powerful attackers such as Moltres, Swellow, or Nidoqueen removed from play, as they can all blow past this set with ease.
    • Paralysis support via Force Palm makes slower offensive teammates, such as Choice Band Druddigon or Aggron, "faster", allowing them to tear opposing teams apart.

    [Other Options]
    • A SubPunch set is possible for Hariyama to abuse, but Hariyama has difficulties maintaining the Substitute because of the powerful special attackers, such as Moltres and Nidoqueen, found in the Rarelyused tier.
    • Hariyama has access to Bulk Up, which means a Bulk Up set could be used, but is not recommended, as Hariyama is too slow and has trouble finding time to pull it off.
    • A set based around Hariyama's released Dream World ability, Sheer Force, running moves such as Rock Slide, the Elemental Punches, and possibly Iron Head, has merit, but is outclassed by the status orb set.
    • A Choice Band set i always plausible, but hits as hard as the status orb set and doesn't give Hariyama the freedom to switch moves.

    [Checks and Counters]
    • Strong special attackers such as Moltres, Nidoqueen, and Magmortar can take advantage of Hariyama's low base Special Defence and beat it down.
    • Defensive Pokemon such as Uxie, Mespirit, Dusknoir, and Slowking can take Hariyama's onslaughts with ease and beat Hariyama one-on-one. Will include additional emphasis on bulky Psychic- and Ghost-type Pokemon such as Musharna and Sprirtomb as they're the number one checks to Hariyama.
    • Other defensive tanks, such as Tangrowth and Qwilfish, can wall the RestTalk set, but cannot take repeated hits from the status orb set.
    • Fast Pokemon such as Swellow and Scyther can come in and revenge kill Hariyama with powerful STAB Flying-type attacks.
  2. Oglemi

    Oglemi We broke it. Yes, we were naughty. Completely naughty.
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    Fake Out should be slashed before ThunderPunch, it's just too good of a tool to pass up. There's been too many times where having dual priority in Fake Out and Bullet Punch has allowed me to stop a Lilligant or Nidoqueen or something from sweeping through my team. If you can switch in to activate the Toxic Orb for free, you're going to be doing about 60% to any frail mon you switch in on with your priority moves, which is amazing in a pinch. Not to mention that Slowking and Qwilfish are pretty easy to work around without ThunderPunch. Guts Hariyama isn't a sweeper, you're merely breaking walls to open a sweep for a teammate. It doesn't really matter if you can't get around those two, and Stone Edge is going to be doing a huge amount of damage to them regardless which should open up a sweep for your teammate.

    The Wallbreaker set looks interesting, though I can't see why you'd ever use it over the Guts set. Does the Sheer Force + LO boost get any KOs that the Guts set doesn't?

    I'm not too sure about the RestTalk set anymore. It was good before Nidoqueen and Moltres became big-time players. Right now Nidoqueen has like a 50% chance to 2HKO that set with Sludge Wave after SR, which is a huge bummer, and Moltres can just blow right past it. Not to mention Toxic Spikes aren't even worth it anymore, and stallish Spikes stacking teams have kinda fell out of favor for offense. I'll probably test out the set a bit later, but right now I'd probably say that there really isn't room for a defensive Hariyama set anymore.

    I'm pretty unconvinced by the Bulk Up and SubPunch sets, especially the Bulk Up set. I'd personally throw those two into OO and leave it as that.
  3. Mazz

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    I'll change that then. Just with having played UU for so long and having the idea that Fake Out is a terrible move stamped into my head so many times, it got the secondary slash.

    The Sheer Force set won't be hitting as hard as the Guts set unless it runs Sheer Force + Choice Band. The only thing this set really has over the Status Orb set is that Hariyama's HP won't be lost as readily. However, and I'll check later with some calculations, but the Elemental Punches should be hitting harder on that set than they would the Status Orb set.

    It's too bad that high Critical-hit ratios weren't affected by Sheer Force. Had they, and that set would be guaranteed to hit harder than the Status Orb set.

    I won't write up the skeleton for that set then, simply because if there is no need for it, why go through the work? Let me know once you're done testing it.

    I'll do that then. Makes this easier and it allows me to get Regice up sooner.

    Thanks Oglemi.
  4. Oglemi

    Oglemi We broke it. Yes, we were naughty. Completely naughty.
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    The Wallbreaker set that you have listed is simply inferior to the status orb one, move it to OO.

    The RestTalk set is still good, so you should be good to go there.

    Be sure to fill in the skeleton for the rest of the sections like OO and Checks and counters and then we can get this approved.
  5. Mazz

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    Will do. This should be ready for QC shortly.
  6. Mazz

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    This is now ready for QC!
  7. Oglemi

    Oglemi We broke it. Yes, we were naughty. Completely naughty.
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    no not frail lol, more like his movepool is awful without close combat, which makes bulk up a poor choice; that, and the fact he can't find the time to set up

    Otherwise this good

    [qc]1/3[/qc]

    edit: also, archeops is a pretty poor choice to revenge kill the status orb set with cuz of bullet punch, it'll still do a lot but if it switches into stealth rock it'll be deep in defeatist range
  8. Mazz

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    I'll fix those two up then. Thanks for the stamp.
  9. asterat

    asterat

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    Personally I use facade over thunder punch, and I think it is better. It easily 2HKOes slowking and can OHKO nidoqueen after rocks.
  10. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    Yeah, this looks fine to be tbqh, just remove all mentions of cofagrigus and your good to go in my book

    [​IMG]
    QC Approved 2/3
  11. Mazz

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    Will do. Thanks!
  12. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    Just be sure not to say things in the Overview like "with the advent of BW2, Hariyama gained..."

    [qc]3/3[/qc]
  13. Mazz

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    Wow, how the hell did I miss this...

    Thanks, and I won't. This should be written up sometime today.
  14. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    This has been reassigned due to inactivity. Post in the index thread if you want to take over the analysis.
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