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Hariyama (Update) (QC 2/2) [GP 1/1]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by DittoCrow, May 25, 2013.

  1. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    So we decided in #rarelyused that Hariyama needed some work, so august and I rewrote everything except for other options. I know not everyone was there to work on it, so if the QC team could take a look at this and make sure everything is good, that'd be appreciated. Also if someone could give it a quick GP check that'd be nice as well *coughOglemicough* /me runs.

    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>Hariyama is a tough threat to deal with, as its combination of base 120 Attack, Guts, and good coverage make it very difficult to switch in to. Hariyama excels at wearing down foes, and it is one of the only Fighting-types in RU that can consistently wear down Psychic-types such as Slowking and Uxie. This is especially useful for aiding teammates on an offensive team as Hariyama will enable them to clean up the opposing team with ease. Hariyama will usually be unable to sweep on its own as it has a pitiful base 50 Speed and will be worn down easily from its status Orb, but its ability to break walls makes up for it. Often overlooked is its base 144 HP and Thick Fat ability, which allow Hariyama to successfully run a defensive set to wall and phaze common threats such as Typhlosion, Glaceon, and even Kabutops. This makes Hariyama a good choice on and against hail teams. Overall, Hariyama can be used as a powerful attacker or defensive phazer, but play carefully around the offensive set, as even though it can be worn down easily, it will leave a dent.</p>

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Close Combat
    move 2: Facade
    move 3: Fake Out
    move 4: Stone Edge / Bullet Punch
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 172 SpD / 84 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Hariyama's Attack goes through the roof with a Guts boost. It should usually be sent in after a teammate faints or on a predicted Toxic, as this set doesn't have the longevity of a bulkier set. Fake Out should usually be used right off the bat if Hariyama is not inflicted with a status condition, as this will allow Toxic Orb to activate safely. There are certain cases in which Fake Out should not be used, such as when the opponent has a solid switch-in like Sigilyph. Using Fake Out will give them a free switch in, so it would be better to use something Close Combat or Stone Edge if you are predicting a switch. Being reckless with Fake Out will result in a weakened Hariyama. After Toxic Orb is activated, Hariyama will be used to wear down opposing Psychic-types and other walls for a teammate, usually another Fighting-type, as it can put them in KO range. This set should be used as a wallbreaker rather than a sweeper, as it doesn't have enough Speed to sweep through a team. Close Combat is the most powerful move on this set, even 2HKOing defensive Tangrowth after Stealth Rock with the Guts boost. Facade is very useful for Pokemon that resist Fighting, mainly Amoonguss, Slowking, and Uxie, who all get 2HKOed after Stealth Rock. Stone Edge is used for Ghost-types, such as Rotom, and Flying-type switch-ins like Sigilyph and Moltres. However, Bullet Punch is useful for revenge killing foes such as Cinccino, Sceptile, and Lilligant, and it forms a good double priority strategy with Fake Out.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Toxic Orb is preferred over Flame Orb as Hariyama won't usually be staying on the field for more than three turns, which is how long it takes for Toxic Orb to out-damage Flame Orb. The Speed EVs allow Hariyama to outspeed Clefable and uninvested Tangrowth, and the Special Defense EVs are used to make the most of Hariyama's bulk. In the fourth moveslot, Hariyama can use Earthquake to 2HKO Qwilfish and have a more reliable move to hit Spiritomb, which can increase the chance of a teammate's sweep. The elemental punches aren't all that useful since Hariyama will still be getting 2HKOes with Close Combat or Facade.</p>

    <p>Fighting-type partners, such as Medicham, Gallade, and Hitmonlee, enjoy Hariyama's ability to lure in and weaken Psychic- and Ghost-types with Facade and Stone Edge. A Fighting-type duo with Hariyama will be sure to put a lot of pressure on the opponent. Hariyama will have to be careful of being revenge killed by faster Psychic-types like Sigilyph, so a teammate such as Spiritomb is appreciated. Spiritomb is also a good teammate because it provides Pursuit support; Hariyama greatly benefits from the removal of Ghost-types. Paralysis support is also useful to Hariyama, as it won't have to rely on its Speed as often. Uxie is great for this, as it can spread paralysis, set up Stealth Rock, and get Hariyama in safely with U-turn. Hariyama will usually get opportunities to switch in on defensive Pokemon like Clefable and Ferroseed, so something to lure them in such as Rotom-C or Kabutops will work well.</p>

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Whirlwind
    move 2: Force Palm
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Careful
    evs: 12 HP / 244 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set focuses more on team support and prolonging Hariyama's longevity. Whirlwind allows Hariyama to function as a reliable phazer, racking up hazard damage on the opponent. Force Palm is a STAB move that also has a high chance of paralysis. This deters Pokemon like Sigilyph and Moltres from switching in directly because they do not want to risk getting paralyzed and losing a good deal of effectiveness. Rest keeps Hariyama healthy, allowing it to tank multiple hits from moderately powerful attackers such as Manectric. Sleep Talk prevents Hariyama from being dead weight while asleep and can bypass Whirlwind's negative priority, but does have a risk factor to it. In addition to team support and prolonging longevity, this set also takes advantage of Hariyama's good bulk. This set helps Hariyama check threats such as Typhlosion, Magmortar, and Cryogonal, as well as Pokemon commonly used in hail such as Glaceon.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EVs provide Hariyama with a Leftovers number while maximizing its bulk. Since this set is being used primarily as a phazer, it is recommended that you use hazards alongside it. Without them, this set loses a lot of its merit. When being used in conjunction with Toxic Spikes, Brick Break is a better option due to higher Base Power. Steelix and Omastar resist the Flying-type attacks aimed at Hariyama while being able to set up Stealth Rock (and Spikes in Omastar's case). Ferroseed is able to set hazards as well and has enough bulk to switch into most Flying-type attacks. Ferroseed also appreciates having Hariyama sponge Fire-type attacks to help cover its 4x weakness. Paralysis support via Force Palm makes slower offensive teammates, such as Choice Band Druddigon or Aggron, more useful, as scoring a paralysis against faster Pokemon such as Moltres or Qwilfish gives them an easier time. Cleric support from Pokemon such as Lanturn, Clefable, or Uxie is also very useful because they can use Heal Bell to cure Hariyama's status should it be forced out by a powerful attacker while asleep. This set functions well as both a Pokemon to check hail teams and to use on hail teams. Hariyama is able to handily defeat Substitute + Toxic + Protect users such as Walrein and Glaceon thanks to Whirlwind, Force Palm, Rest, and Thick Fat. On the other hand, Hariyama is bulky enough to take on Fire-types like Typhlosion and Magmortar that may otherwise run through hail teams.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A SubPunch set is possible for Hariyama to use, but Hariyama has difficulties maintaining a Substitute because of the powerful special attackers, such as Moltres and Sigilyph, found in RU. Hariyama has access to Bulk Up, but is not recommended, as Hariyama is too slow and has trouble finding time to pull it off. A set based around Hariyama's Dream World ability, Sheer Force, using Rock Slide, the elemental punches, or Iron Head, has merit, but is outclassed by the status Orb set. A Choice Band set is always plausible, but only hits as hard as the status Orb set without giving Hariyama the freedom to switch moves. Life Orb is a viable alternative to Toxic Orb, as it prevents Protect users such as Alomomola from letting Hariyama die from residual damage.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The offensive set will be worn down easily by Toxic damage and common attacks. The best thing to do if you're facing it and dealing with other strong physical attackers is to try to keep a Psychic-type such as Slowking healthy, and wear Hariyama down by picking switch-ins that resist its moves instead. Rotom is immune to 3/4 of the offensive set's moves, and can stall it out with Substitute or finish it off with Thunderbolt. Alomomola can also let Hariyama kill itself off by using a combination of Wish + Protect. This may not work for offensive teams, however, so sacrificing something that you don't really need, such as a weakened lead Smeargle, then sending in an appropriate revenge killer will work. Moltres, Sigilyph, Braviary, and Mesprit can all work, as they can hit Hariyama super effectively or force a switch. Bulkier Pokemon such as Slowking, Uxie, and Misdreavus can also work, but they will lose quite a bit of HP in the process of checking Hariyama. Bulky Psychic- and Ghost-types work better when dealing with the RestTalk set.</p>
  2. Honko

    Honko
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    Mention Pursuit support for Ghosts for the first set. If you don't have to worry about Rotom/Missy then you don't have to waste a slot on Stone Edge (and even with Stone Edge they still beat you).

    Facade weakens Qwilfish pretty well, EQ's selling point is that it 2HKOes. EQ also hits Golurk who walls everything else but idk if that's worth mentioning.

    This makes Bullet Punch sound kinda lame. It's best for revenge killing stuff with Fake Out + BP double priority. Together they do like 75-90% to Cinccino/Sceptile/Hitmonlee/Lilligant.

    Talk more about how to use Fake Out. I think one of the biggest reasons Hariyama got a bad reputation on the ladder is because inexperienced players are bad at using Fake Out. Things like Moltres and Sigilyph will beat you if you Fake Out while they switch in. It's obviously a useful move for activating the Toxic Orb, and it's also useful for revenge killing stuff, but don't use it if they're obviously going to switch. The "free" damage you get on your opponent is countered by the fact that you just took poison damage, your Toxic counter went up, and your opponent probably switched to something that will force you out and cause you to at least take hazard damage again next time you switch in.
  3. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
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    Brick Break in AC.
  4. tehy

    tehy

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    In the overview:'so be sure to use Hariyama as a wall breaker' and 'play carefully around the offensive set, as even though it can be worn down easily, it will leave a dent'. I don't think you're supposed to tell someone what to do like this in an overview and i don't think the end of the overview should explain how to deal with one set. I also feel like the overview is a little too focused on one set and too in-depth about that set in general.

    Which base 60 uninvesteds? Are there any in particular? If there are a lot then whatever but I doubt there are too many to name, and if there are just say 1 or 2 in particular.

    Facade doesn't hit harder than an SE elemental punch, just saying.

    If you have SR up, moltres switching into the Restalk set directly is a terrible idea anyhow, since Whirlwind basically kills it. And CP sigilyph just shifts paralysis onto something else, just saying, although any other set dislikes para.

    Edit: yeah it was just a feeling I had but it's not a big deal. That kind of thing is heavily subjective anyhow
  5. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    Made all of the suggested changes. However for the overview, I mentioned the offensive set the most because that's the most common and effective one, the defensive set isn't much of a threat and isn't as hard to switch into. Players should be worrying about the All-Out Attacker set the most.
  6. Spirit

    Spirit
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    How exactly does it wear down Slowking when king has Slack Off + Regenerator? I don't know if the Uxie mention is applicable either. It's making it sound like it's a good idea to keep Hariyama in on two Pokemon that can counter it. More often than not, it won't even be wearing down Uxie, much less Slowking because it'll often be forced out once it uses Fake Out and take poison damage followed up by hazard damage when it switches in again.

    252+ Atk Hariyama Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Uxie: 28-33 (7.9 - 9.32%) -- 9HKO at best

    Uxie is recovering from that Fake Out with Leftovers recovery after two turns, while Hariyama racks up more residual damage.

    252+ Atk Guts Hariyama Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Uxie: 41-49 (11.58 - 13.84%) -- 9HKO at best

    In this scenario, Hariyama has a low chance of outdamaging Uxie's two turn leftover recovery by 1.8%. I seriously don't get how this is going to wear down Uxie, or even Slowking for that matter. The sentence in the overview is just bad, misleading, and should be removed imo.

    Unless this sentence implies that Hariyama uses Stone Edge to wear them down? Idk. Even then, Hariyama will lose once it gets hit by Psychic.
  7. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    Why would you use Fake Out on those Pokemon? Uxie and Slowking are the two most common switch-ins to Fighting-types, and Hariyama 2HKOes their most common sets with Facade. Hariyama's goal is to wear these Pokemon down so another Fighting-type like Hitmonlee can sweep. This is exactly how Fake Out is not supposed to be used.
  8. august

    august free the robots
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    mention sheer force in ac i guess cause hariyama has access to the elemental punches and force palm i guess. sheer force can freely use life orb but its pretty much always inferior to a guts set

    looks good
  9. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    [qc]1/2[/qc]
  10. Molk

    Molk mfw zoroark
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    QC Approved 2/2
  11. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    [Overview]

    <p>Hariyama is a tough threat to deal with, as its combination of base 120 Attack, Guts, and good coverage make it very difficult to switch into. Hariyama excels at wearing down foes, and it is one of the only Fighting-types in RU that can consistently wear down Psychic-types such as Slowking and Uxie. This is especially useful for aiding teammates on an offensive team as Hariyama will enable them to clean up the opposing team with ease. Hariyama will usually be unable to sweep on its own as it has a pitiful base 50 Speed and will be worn down easily from its status Orb, but its ability to break walls makes up for it. Often overlooked is its base 144 HP and Thick Fat ability, which allow Hariyama to successfully run a defensive set to wall and phaze common threats such as Typhlosion, Glaceon, and even Kabutops. This makes Hariyama a good choice on and against hail teams. Overall, Hariyama can be used as a powerful attacker or defensive phazer, but play carefully around the offensive set, since even though it can be worn down easily, it will leave a dent.</p>

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Close Combat
    move 2: Facade
    move 3: Fake Out
    move 4: Stone Edge / Bullet Punch
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 172 SpD / 84 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Hariyama's Attack goes through the roof with a Guts boost. It should usually be sent in after a teammate faints or on a predicted Toxic, as this set doesn't have the longevity of a bulkier set. Fake Out should usually be used right off the bat if Hariyama is not inflicted with a status condition, as this will allow Toxic Orb to activate safely. There are certain cases in which Fake Out should not be used, such as when the opponent has a solid switch-in like Sigilyph. Using Fake Out will give them a free switch in, so it would be better to use something like Close Combat or Stone Edge if you are predicting a switch. Being reckless with Fake Out will result in a weakened Hariyama. After Toxic Orb is activated, Hariyama will be used to wear down opposing Psychic-types and other walls for a teammate, usually another Fighting-type, as it can put them in KO range. This set should be used as a wallbreaker rather than a sweeper, as it doesn't have enough Speed to sweep through a team. Close Combat is the most powerful move on this set, even 2HKOing defensive Tangrowth after Stealth Rock with the Guts boost. Facade is very useful for Pokemon that resist Fighting, mainly Amoonguss, Slowking, and Uxie, who all get 2HKOed after Stealth Rock. Stone Edge is used for Ghost-types, such as Rotom, and Flying-type switch-ins like Sigilyph and Moltres. However, Bullet Punch is useful for revenge killing foes such as Cinccino, Sceptile, and Lilligant, and it forms a good double priority strategy with Fake Out.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Toxic Orb is preferred over Flame Orb as Hariyama won't usually be staying on the field for more than three turns, which is how long it takes for Toxic Orb to out-damage Flame Orb. The Speed EVs allow Hariyama to outspeed Clefable and uninvested Tangrowth, and the Special Defense EVs are used to make the most of Hariyama's bulk. In the fourth moveslot, Hariyama can use Earthquake to 2HKO Qwilfish and have a more reliable move to hit Spiritomb, which can increase the chance of a teammate's sweep. The elemental punches aren't all that useful since Hariyama will still be getting 2HKOes with Close Combat or Facade.</p>

    <p>Fighting-type partners, such as Medicham, Gallade, and Hitmonlee, enjoy Hariyama's ability to lure in and weaken Psychic- and Ghost-types with Facade and Stone Edge. A Fighting-type duo with Hariyama will be sure to put a lot of pressure on the opponent. Hariyama will have to be careful of being revenge killed by faster Psychic-types like Sigilyph, so a teammate such as Spiritomb is appreciated. Spiritomb is also a good teammate because it provides Pursuit support; Hariyama greatly benefits from the removal of Ghost-types. Paralysis support is also useful for Hariyama, as it won't have to rely on its Speed as often. Uxie is great for this, as it can spread paralysis, set up Stealth Rock, and get Hariyama in safely with U-turn. Hariyama will usually get opportunities to switch in on defensive Pokemon like Clefable and Ferroseed, so something to lure them in such as Rotom-C or Kabutops will work well.</p>

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Whirlwind
    move 2: Force Palm
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Careful
    evs: 12 HP / 244 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set focuses more on team support and prolonging Hariyama's longevity. Whirlwind allows Hariyama to function as a reliable phazer, racking up hazard damage on the opponent. Force Palm is a STAB move that also has a high chance of paralysis. This deters Pokemon like Sigilyph and Moltres from switching in directly because they do not want to risk getting paralyzed and losing a good deal of effectiveness. Rest keeps Hariyama healthy, allowing it to tank multiple hits from moderately powerful attackers such as Manectric. Sleep Talk prevents Hariyama from being dead weight while asleep and can bypass Whirlwind's negative priority, but does have a risk factor to it. In addition to team support and prolonging longevity, this set also takes advantage of Hariyama's good bulk. This set helps Hariyama check threats such as Typhlosion, Magmortar, and Cryogonal, as well as Pokemon commonly used on hail teams such as Glaceon.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EVs provide Hariyama with a Leftovers number while maximizing its bulk. Since this set is being used primarily as a phazer, it is recommended that you use hazards alongside it. Without them, this set loses a lot of its merit. When being used in conjunction with Toxic Spikes, Brick Break is a better option due to higher Base Power. Steelix and Omastar resist the Flying-type attacks aimed at Hariyama while being able to set up Stealth Rock (and Spikes in Omastar's case). Ferroseed is able to set hazards as well and has enough bulk to switch into most Flying-type attacks. Ferroseed also appreciates having Hariyama sponge Fire-type attacks to help cover its 4x weakness. Paralysis support via Force Palm makes slower offensive teammates, such as Choice Band Druddigon or Aggron, more useful, as scoring a paralysis against faster Pokemon such as Moltres or Qwilfish gives them an easier time. Cleric support from Pokemon such as Lanturn, Clefable, or Uxie is also very useful because they can use Heal Bell to cure Hariyama's status should it be forced out by a powerful attacker while asleep. This set functions well as both a Pokemon to check hail teams and to use on hail teams. Hariyama is able to handily defeat SubProtect users such as Walrein and Glaceon thanks to Whirlwind, Force Palm, Rest, and Thick Fat. On the other hand, Hariyama is bulky enough to take on Fire-types like Typhlosion and Magmortar that may otherwise run through hail teams.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A SubPunch set is possible for Hariyama to use, but Hariyama has difficulties maintaining a Substitute because of the powerful special attackers, such as Moltres and Sigilyph, found in RU. Hariyama has access to Bulk Up, but is not recommended, as Hariyama is too slow and has trouble finding time to pull it off. A set based around Hariyama's Dream World ability, Sheer Force, using Rock Slide, the elemental punches, or Iron Head has merit, but is outclassed by the status Orb set. A Choice Band set is always plausible, but only hits as hard as the status Orb set without giving Hariyama the freedom to switch moves. Life Orb is a viable alternative to Toxic Orb, as it prevents Protect users such as Alomomola from letting Hariyama die from residual damage.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The offensive set will be worn down easily by Toxic damage and common attacks. The best thing to do if you're facing it and dealing with other strong physical attackers is to try to keep a Psychic-type such as Slowking healthy, and wear Hariyama down by picking switch-ins that resist its moves instead. Rotom is immune to 3/4 of the offensive set's moves, and can stall it out with Substitute or finish it off with Thunderbolt. Alomomola can also let Hariyama kill itself off by using a combination of Wish + Protect. This may not work for offensive teams, however, so sacrificing something that you don't really need, such as a weakened lead Smeargle, then sending in an appropriate revenge killer will work. Moltres, Sigilyph, Braviary, and Mesprit can all work, as they can hit Hariyama super effectively or force a switch. Bulkier Pokemon such as Slowking, Uxie, and Misdreavus can also work, but they will lose quite a bit of HP in the process of checking Hariyama. Bulky Psychic- and Ghost-types work better when dealing with the RestTalk set.</p>


    [gp]1/1[/gp]

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