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Hate Crew Deathroll

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by kill yourself, Oct 7, 2011.

  1. kill yourself

    kill yourself .|~Fashionista~|.
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    [​IMG]
    Hate Crew Deathroll

    At a Glance
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Under the Microscope
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    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Leftovers | Calm | 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD***
    Lil Bloodred Ridin Hood
    Stealth Rock | Lava Plume | Roar | Protect

    By far my favorite Heatran set due to its unbelievable bulk; Defensive Politoed's rain-boosted Scald does about 40%. With Celebi, Ferrothorn and Draco Meteors running around, this dude gets a ton of free switches to set up Stealth Rock - the most crucial hazard in the game, since it severely limits the damage Multiscale Dragonite can do. Lava Plume's burn rate is sweet for catching Rotom-W on the switch, which is crucial because the washing machine is a royal pain in the ass - it doesn't get hit by Toxic Spikes and none of my mons bar Heatran (who obviously hates Hydro Pump) like taking burns.

    Protect is an amazing move - it sort of makes up for Heatran's lack of recovery, it racks up residual damage, and it scouts the intentions of choice users. Roar is more of a general move, to force hazard damage, but its biggest use is phazing out SubCM Rachi under rain. The last thing Heatran does is fuck sun teams, hard - sacrifice Tyranitar to bring Dugtrio to its Sash, lay up hazards with Forry, bring Tran in, and start Roaring; once that happens, it's usually gg.

    -------------------------

    [​IMG]
    Forretress @ Leftovers | Sassy | 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD***
    Needled 24/7
    Spikes | Toxic Spikes | Rapid Spin | Volt Switch

    Forretress is often overlooked, but he's deadly. He gets a ton of free set-up opportunities with the abundance of Ferrothorn and Skarmory. With many spike-stacking teams neglecting a spin blocker nowadays, Forry easily foils their main source of damage. If I do see a ghost in team preview, I just Volt Switch out on the switch and trap with Tyranitar. Volt Switch also lets me escape from Magnezone, eliminating the need for Shed Shell.

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    [​IMG]
    Jellicent @ Leftovers | Bold | 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA***Bodom Beach Terror
    Taunt | Scald | Will-O-Wisp | Recover

    Jellicent's main role is to block Rapid Spin; with max HP and max defense, he avoids a 2HKO from even the mighty Excadrill (unless it has Life Orb, but in that case it doesn't have Rapid Spin so Tangrowth is a great counter). I can often get in unscathed because my opponents rarely use Swords Dance when they see I have Growth - the mentality is "spin now, sweep later".

    Jellicent is also a fantastic weapon against opposing stall; Taunt shuts down any attempts at healing off hazard damage while simultaneously preventing any attempts to wear me down with status. Will-O-Wisp may seem to overlap with Toxic Spikes but it's good for hitting steels like Ferrothorn; its main use, however, is beating Toxicroak, who would otherwise sweep me cleanly. Sub variants only carry Sucker Punch + Drain Punch, so I can simply PP stall it with Taunt.

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    [​IMG]
    Tangrowth @ Leftovers | Bold | 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA***Chokehold
    Sleep Powder | Leech Seed | Giga Drain | Hidden Power Ice

    My previous stall teams all had trouble with SD Gliscor; I asked around and was told to try out Quagsire. So I did, but he sucked. Then one day, I faced a fellow on the ladder who frustrated the hell out of me because no matter what my Gliscor did, it couldn't break his Tangrowth.
    I decided to try the plant monster and the results have been excellent. In addition to beating Gliscor, he counters DD Dragonite - a +1 Fire Punch does around 55% at max - and Terrakion. The Regenerator ability is amazing; between it, Leech Seed, and Jirachi's Wish-passing, Growth tends to stick around awhile.

    With BW's mechanics re-setting the sleep counter every time the afflicted Pokemon switches out, Sleep Powder pretty much guarantees I'll put one Pokemon on their team out of commission. The only complaint I have about this dude is that his SpD is piss weak and therefore I can nearly never risk taking random HP Fires. However, Tang's overall defensive performance is so good that I can overlook a minor weakness like that.

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    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers | Careful | 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD***Sixpounder
    Wish | U-turn | Body Slam | Iron Head

    Jirachi is my primary special wall that also extends my team's longevity with Wish, and [unlike Blissey] provides some pretty fierce offense when combined with full hazard support. U-turn is a great move for keeping momentum on my side and, more importantly, escaping from Magnezone. Iron Head is a great way to break opposing stall with Toxic Spikes support. Body Slam is the first part of the para-flinch technique used to make sure Rachi can recieve its own Wishes, but in a pinch, I can abuse Jirachi's extremely gay ability to gain Leftovers recovery.

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    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf | Jolly | 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe***Triple Corpse Hammerblow
    Crunch | Pursuit | Earthquake | Rock Slide

    This is Tyranitar's most effective set imo. It's a backup check to so many dangerous threats - most notably Thundurus and Tornadus. This makes facing rain teams alot easier. He also defeats Chlorophyll sweepers (Venusaur, Sawsbuck) in the same way that Scarf Politoed defeats Excadrill - it changes the weather upon entry and then uses the Scarf to outspeed. Rock Slide is used over Stone Edge because the former has shitty accuracy, and Tar can abuse RS's flinch rate with its newfound speed. Earthquake is used over Superpower to finish off weakened Jirachi, and to assure a KO against Heatran / Infernape.

    -------------------------
    So thats my team, any rates are appreciated. The biggest threats are HP Ice Landorus and Nasty Plot Lucario but I'm not sure how I can patch these weaknesses up. Thanks for reading.
    gr8astard likes this.
  2. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    Hi, and nice stall team. The first thing I noticed is a significant weakness to Excadrill. Your Tangrowth doesn't really need Sleep Powder, since it potentially clashes with the burns and toxics your team wants to distribute. Sleep works better when you have powerful hitters who can set up on the sleeping pokes or fire off a devastating attack. Stall teams just don't hit hard enough to take advantage of that. I suggest swapping Sleep Powder for Earthquake and opting for a Relaxed Nature. Earthquake hits hard enough with no speed investment. You also get to continue using Tangrowth to deal with the likes of Gliscor, so its better to not use Hidden Power Fire.

    As well, is there any reason not to use Toxic on Heatran? Its a much better choice for distributing status to the Latii twins, which Heatran will be expected to switch into multiple times throughout the course of a match. While Roar and Protect are both useful moves, there are just so many flying types and levitators in OU that you cannot rely on Toxic Spikes for distributing status. Heatran also has no chance of beating last man standing Volcorona without Toxic, which is one of the best reasons to use Heatran.

    Finally, Jirachi has a pretty redundant role on this team. Your team also appears to struggle against Rotom-W and Thundurus. The first which can easily dispose of Tangrowth through HP Fire/ HP Ice, and the latter which you must rely on Tyranitar. Jirachi's Body Slam also clashes with Toxic Spikes and Will-o-Wisp. So you don't really want a paralyzed Ferrothorn that you need burned do you? I suggest dropping Jirachi for a Gastrodon, it also patches up a slight problem against Thundurus and gives you a back up check to Latios just like Jirachi (not that you ever needed it, you got Ttar and Heatran dealing with that). Earthquake version is better for dealing with Jirachi, who could be problematic for your team in the rain.

    Show Hide

    Gastrodon @ Leftovers
    Storm Drain
    Sassy
    252 Hp/ 252 SpD/ 4 SpA
    Scald
    Toxic
    Earthquake
    Recover
  3. kill yourself

    kill yourself .|~Fashionista~|.
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    Actually, Heatran beats Volcarona easily, even without Toxic. Volc can't be the last mon because I'm gonna constantly be Roaring and it dies on two hazard switch-ins; it's not like the opponent can spin them away, either.

    Sleep Powder on Tang has been useful at times, simply to disable something on the opposing team, but I agree that it clashes with all the status and it's often been dead weight; a third coverage move would be sweet, so I will definitely try out Earthquake.

    I'm hesitant to drop Jirachi because Wish support is great but god knows Rotom-W is a pain in the ass, so I will definitely give Gastrodon a shot. Thanks for the rate.
  4. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    A great pokemon who can provide Wish support and check Rotom-W is Chansey. While you'll find the sand passive damage annoying, Chansey is better than Blissey for the simple reason that it doesn't get destroyed by Psyshock. Their Wishes are pretty much equal, and the only attack you'll ever be using anyways is Seismic Toss. Softboiled+Wish ensures that Chansey will be healing way more than Blissey and its Leftovers+Wish+Protect ever will. Since 1 Hp on Chansey is bulkier than 1 Hp on Blissey. With EQ on Tangrowth, Rain Abuser Jirachi shouldn't be that big a problem.

    Show Hide

    Chansey @ Eviolite
    Natural Cure
    Bold
    252 Hp/ 252 Def/ 4 SpD
    Seismic Toss
    Toxic
    Softboiled
    Wish
  5. RhyssaFireheart

    RhyssaFireheart

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    Nice stall team but i happen to see you have a huge Conkeldurr weakness and Payback can really hurt jellicent. Forretress can take many hits but Conkeldurr can Bulk up. Also SD scizor can be promblematic. Can I suggest Choice Scarfed Rotom-W to stop that threats.
    Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs 4 HP/ 252 SPATK/ 252 SPEED
    Timid Nature (+Speed - Attack)


    Good luck with your team!
  6. Lemonade.

    Lemonade. fluffy bird
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    DD Scrafty with HjK, Crunch, and Ice Punch looks like a problem, especially Shed Skin variants that don't care about status. It can wear Forry and Jirachi down since those two are uninvested in defense. However, since DD Scrafy is relatively uncommon, no big changes are needed. I suggest Superpower over Earthquake on TTar (which still outspeeds +1 Scrafty), despite the reasons listed, especially since Air Balloon is somewhat common on Heatran and Infernape is handled pretty well by Jellicent. A weakened Jirachi is no problem since Crunch will lower it's defense and it will be left healing to stay alive.
  7. Eggbert

    Eggbert

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    Wow it isn't skarm / gastro / tran! Jelli destroys rain, especially now that Thundurus will be gone, so it's good to see some variety. With that said, you do have issues with mons like Landorus and Mew but you have the means to beat them, ie roaring mew with tran and then getting t-spikes up and checking landorus with tangrowth. The real threat I am concerned with is Sub Bounce Gyarados, since it can beat your team with little effort and prediction. Honestly, there really isn't much to change, but after some thought I guess you could try night shade on Jellicent. It sounds weird, but it lets you break Gyara's subs and also beat ballless Reuniclus 1v1. Tang counters Gliscor already so I don't think it will be the biggest loss. Not much else to add, you are still weak to vaccum wave NP luke, but no one runs that ;) Nice team.
  8. kill yourself

    kill yourself .|~Fashionista~|.
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    Chansey sounds good, I'll give it a shot.

    Conkeldurr is only a problem if I don't get Tangrowth in right away. SD Scizor isn't a problem at all, with Heatran and Jellicent...that being said, Scarf Rotom is a cool mon and it would provide some much-needed speed so I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the rate.
    Tangrowth can beat Scrafty pretty easily with Leech Seed, Sleep Powder and Giga Drain. I guess I can give Superpower another shot, though. Thanks for the rate.
    Mew has never been a problem because Heatran soaks up Willowisp and then burns with Lava Plume, plus Forry's tspikes cripple it. Landorus has been a real pain in the ass though, because Tangrowth's SpD sucks and HP Ice with no investment does something ridiculous like 70%, so I have to rely on Jellicent to check it. I've actually been considering running Ice Beam on ScarfTar for this, which would also help against that really gay SD Acrobatics Gliscor that's been running around.

    Luckily I've been seeing alot of Taunt Gyara lately as opposed to Sub, but when I was faced with the latter, I broke the sub with Tangrowth as he DD'd, then went to Rachi on turn 1 of Bounce so I could land a Body Slam as it came down. Idk about Night Shade but I'll try it. Also, fuck NP Lucario.

    thanks for the rate!!
  9. AB2

    AB2 is an absolute ape
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    Hey, cool team man. I think that it is pretty concerning that you have no ground immunity though. Although Tangrowth is a decent resistance, this team would really benefit from an immunity. Conkeldurr is pretty concerning as well. Jellicent and Tangrowth do a decent job of taking hits from it, but realistically they both are just going to be set up fodder for it in the long run. Although this is a pretty obvious suggestion, Latias would really fit well on this team. Not only does it fit really well on this team archetype, but it also functions well against threats such as Rotom-W, which can actually be a huge pain to this team. The easiest place to recommend Latias would be to simply run it over Jirachi. Although you lose wish support, which is pretty useful for this team, I think the benefits that Latias gives this team which is a ground immunity, second water resistance, and a way of taking on threats such as Rotom-W then it is more than enough to consider it.

    You're still pretty weak to some boosting sweepers such as nasty plot Lucario. Physically defensive Quagsire would actually fit really well here. It has the ability to check lots of physical threats such as Landorus and Scrafty while still doing pretty well against nasty plot Lucario. Unfortunately, one of the only feasible ways for Quagsire to fit onto this team is to run it over Jellicent. Although Jellicent is a pretty good 'mon for this team, I really think that it stands out as the weakest link especially since you do not invest enough speed on it to stop stall threats like Skarmory cold. With the combination of Tangrowth and Quagsire, you should be able to take on most fighting type threats. As for some smaller changes, I would definitely consider running superpower over earthquake on Tyranitar again. Superpower is extremely useful for threats such as swords dance Terrakion that pack balloon in particular. gl.

    Sets (open)

    Quagsire @ Leftovers
    Relaxed 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpDef Unaware
    Scald / Toxic or Curse / Earthquake / Recover

    Latias @ Leftovers
    Timid 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Calm Mind / Dragon Pulse / Recover / Roar
  10. San_Pellegrino

    San_Pellegrino the eternal dreamer
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    Hi BKC,

    A notable problem in your team is, as mentioned by AB2, lack of a steady ground resistance, and a glaring issue with DD users like Gyarados, Salamence and Dragonite. What I hate most about forretress on stall teams is that it lacks consistent longetivity. It takes a lot of work to keep in good health tanking off an attack while trying to set up hazards. Against a highly offensive team, you'll find little time to get Forretress in safely. Because of this, I'm going to suggest using a setup sweeper in order to force walls to come in, ensuring you at least one layer of hazards per opponent switch in. CM Jirachi looks to me the best fit here, with a moveset of Calm Mind | Substitute | Psyshock | Thunderbolt, you can lure out pokemon like chansey and gliscor, who will do menial damage to forretress. This moveset does particularly well against Rain, beating Gastrodon, Starmie, Politoed, etc. It functions very well with tspikes support, which you have already, fitting in with the whole of your team (by keeping some offensive momentum on a stall-ish team, who can force more movement on your opponent's side instead of being on the weaker end yourself). The main issue here is that you lose Wish support, u-turn and flinch, while being good utilities in some situations, I find to be needless since you have a Heatran already, who overlaps defensive coverage with spdef jirachi. You do still have Leech Seed on Growth though, so that can be an alternative to using Wish.

    As for the ground weakness, things like Mamoswine, lando and Eo's sand veil gliscor really wreck your team. To fix the latter two issues, something you can try is running HP Ice on forretress, which should ko gliscor and landorus after some hazard damage. You also lack a mon that can take repeated water attacks from the likes of Rotom-w and starmie, which is why I think that a specially defensive celebi with Leech Seed / Thunder Wave | Giga Drain | HP Ice | Recover over Tangrowth is going to work wonders for you in the long run. Good luck man!
  11. Faladran

    Faladran
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    Hey,

    So I spent some time looking this over and I couldn't find much to change. I think AB2's suggestions are probably the most viable if you're looking to change anything; you get a better counter to Rotom-W (Latias also provides another phazer, which is really helpful here) and a second physical wall that can take on stat boosters. The main things you'd lose are Wish, that useful Fighting immunity, and your spin blocker. It's up to you to decide whether losing those things is worth patching up your current weaknesses.

    As far as current changes go, I'd think about going for 40 Speed EVs on Jirachi to beat most Celebi (2 points above the standard). You can also give Heatran 8 Speed EVs to ensure you win the Roar war (unintentional rhyming ftw) against other defensive Heatran. This can be very useful in stall vs stall matchups.

    Good luck!
  12. kill yourself

    kill yourself .|~Fashionista~|.
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    By using Latias I get to keep my Reuniclus counter, which is great...I'm not sure about dropping Jellicent but I can give Quagsire a shot. Thanks for the rate.
    Oh man I hate Eo's Gliscor so much. I like the Jirachi idea and I've never used spdef Celebi before so it'll be interesting to try out. Thanks for the rate!
    Will give the extra speed EVs a shot, thanks for the rate!
    ---
    To other raters, I'm considering running Ice Beam on Scarftar to help against Landorus / Eo's Gliscor. Thoughts?
  13. Mister Cold

    Mister Cold

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    My Tangrowth (I have been using him alot the last month) sticks around pretty long without wish support either.

    adding I run the Leech Seed/Power Whip/Protect/Sleep powder set. (because my other 5 pokes are special :S). combined with another regenerator it really keeps a check on things.

    unless the need for HP Ice is really needed (Gliscor doesn't stay long in on me and Power Whip dents them pretty hard, Gliscor is not one of my worries with Tanny around)
  14. MCRandom

    MCRandom

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    Hey BKC, Cool team you have here. I really like the use of some unorthodox Pokemon/Spreads. One thing that I really think this team could benefit from would be fitting an Eviolite Tangela over your Tangrowth. Since your running a Specially Based set and have leech seed, there is really no reason not to. Tangela is still packing a solid base 100 SpAtk stat, which is all that is needed to put the hurt on Terrakion/Dnite/Gliscor with your moveset. Also it gives you a little bit more bulk on the Special side which could allow you a little more wiggle room when facing Hp Fire or Ice pokemon. There are 2 different EV spreads you could consider:

    Tangela @ Eviolite
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def,-Atk)
    -Leech Seed
    -Sleep Powder
    -Giga Drain
    -Hidden Power Ice

    Tangela @ Eviolite
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Hp / 248 Def / 8 SDef
    Bold Nature
    -Leech Seed
    -Protect
    -Giga Drain
    -Hidden Power Ice

    The First spread gives you approximately the same Defensive capabilities as your current Tangrowth, but gives you way more bulk on the special side. The second set still gives you a little bit more bulk on the Special Side but more on the Physical side to make you even that much better of a check to the afformented pokemon. Good Luck and Congrats on the great team.
  15. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Awesome team, BKC! The Scarftar really provides a nice touch to this team.

    That Forretress of yours can be a great check to Terrakion and Landorus if you simply give it Gyro Ball > Spikes / Toxic Spikes. Between Spikes and Toxic Spikes, I usually choose Spikes. And it seems to fit better for your team, since you have a lot of Volt-Switching / U-turning / phazing compared to Toxic-Stalling. You would also need to make Forretress physically-defensive (Relaxed, 0 Spe IVs). I'd also give it ~96 EVs in Atk for a good chance to 2HKO Landorus after SR.

    I also feel like Jirachi handles Lucario well by paralyzing it and let Jellicent or Heatran to finish it off. If that's not the case, you may want to consider Fire Punch over U-turn to hit Lucario hard.
  16. LUST

    LUST
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    Sexy team bro, I'll play around with this team and post rates in the future.
  17. Raikiri

    Raikiri

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    Jun 29, 2011
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    Rotom-W+Scizor Combo run through this team pretty easily, and is being spammed on a lot of teams now. Some of my Heatrans carry Passho Berry w/ Hp Grass to stop cycle.

    Also, other Heatran w/ Hp Grass looks to be a problem. Can't do any calcs right now but I'm pretty sure your current Jellicent won't take 2 Hits especially w/ sand and possible hazards up.
  18. By Myself

    By Myself

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    Yea maybe putting a Np Celebi or Latias in Tangrowths place would be succesful seeing as though it doesn't do anything your team can't handle. As having Celebi could handle Breloom and Gliscor quite well, as long with Skarm/Gastro/Tran cores.

    Sets:
    Show Hide
    (Celebi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Giga Drain
    - Earth Power
    With this amount of speed Ev's Celebi outspeeds both Lucarioo and Heatran.
    (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Recover
    - Hidden Power [Fire]/Roar
    - Dragon Pulse
    though having roar negates the fact that you can get switched on and trapped by Scizor/Tyranitar you could probably get around that seeing as you have a Heatran and other things to take on Tyranitar as well as hazards.

    Hope i helped in some way friendly user. :]

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