1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Haunter (update) [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Vintage Books, Jun 15, 2012.

  1. Vintage Books

    Vintage Books

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    509
    [Overview]

    <p>In a tier riddled with bulky Eviolite-wielding NFE's, Haunter stands out as one of the only common pre-evolutions to have no use for the item. With its great Special Attack and relatively good Speed, Haunter is one of the best offensive Ghost-type Pokemon in the tier. Furthermore, thanks to three common immunities and two 4x resistances, Haunter has no trouble finding an opening to switch in. Its excellent offensive movepool and many other tricks, which include Taunt, Trick, and Disable gives Haunter a variety of ways to mess with the opponent.</p>

    <p>However, courtesy of its horrid defensive stats, Haunter can rarely take an unresisted hit, and is often forced to rely on a Substitute if it wishes to do anything other than attack. In addition, despite being a Ghost-type, Haunter is easily shut down by the only decent spinner in the tier, Armaldo. Even with its drawbacks, though, Haunter is an unpredictable threat, and is a great choice for teams of many different playstyles.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubDisable
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Disable
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Hidden Power Fighting / Sludge Bomb
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is perfect for people who take pride in making their opponents as frustrated as possible, by taking advantage of Haunter's three immunities and two 4x resistances, namely to Ground, Fighting, Normal, as well as Poison and Bug. As a large portion of the metagame carries only one move that can hit it, between Substitute and Disable Haunter is able to make the opponent unable to damage it at all. The idea is to set up a Substitute while the opponent tries to attack, then use Disable to render the opponent useless. Many Pokemon will be unable to hit Haunter at all if it is behind a Substitute and has used Disable.</p>

    <p>Shadow Ball is the preferred STAB attack as it has better coverage than Sludge Bomb. Hidden Power Fighting hits Pokemon that resist or are immune to Shadow Ball, such as Bastiodon, Probopass, and Miltank; additionally the combination of Shadow Ball and Hidden Power Fighting gets perfect coverage in NU. Sludge Bomb can be used over Hidden Power Fighting as a secondary STAB option with considerably more power, but this leaves Haunter walled by many Pokemon, such as Bastiodon and Probopass.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Haunter should aim to outspeed as many Pokemon as possible so it can successfully put a Substitute up against them. In particular, a Timid nature ensures that Haunter can outrun Choice Band Sawk. Leftovers is necessary because it enables Haunter to heal off Substitute damage, and possibly grants it an extra Substitute in the long run.</p

    <p>Even with Leftovers recovery, however, Haunter does appreciate Wish support from the likes of Alomomola, Lickilicky, and Audino. As with all sets that rely on Substitute, this set is completely destroyed by Cinccino, who can break Haunter's Substitute and easily KO it in the same turn. Pokemon that can take most of Cinccino's attacks such as Probopass and Bastiodon, are excellent teammates. Skuntank is also quite a problem as it can trap and KO Haunter with Crunch, Sucker Punch or Pursuit, and Haunter that lacks Hidden Power Ground fails to damage it. Your best chance is to switch to a teammate that can take out Skuntank while Haunter's Substitute is still up; Torterra, Golem and Regirock all do a fine job taking Skuntank down. Golem, Regirock, and Probopass are good teammates as they wall Swellow, which can be problematic as it is able to outspeed and KO Haunter. Gurdurr is a great partner as it can take advantage of the removal of Pokemon that Haunter easily takes out.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Shadow Ball
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Pain split
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is probably Haunter's simplest and easiest set to use. This set aims to give Haunter a bit more longevity to do some decent damage. Substitute protects Haunter from status, particularly paralysis, that would otherwise render it useless, and also insures it against priority move as well as powerful attacks from faster Pokemon. Haunter can easily come in on one of its three common immunities and force out a Choice-locked opponent, such as Sawk or Emboar, and set up a Substitute. Sludge Bomb and Shadow Ball are Haunter's most powerful STAB options, while Hidden Power Ground, gives it coverage on all the Pokemon that resist these two moves, most importantly Bastiodon, Probopass, and Skuntank. Pain Split is an option over Hidden Power Ground; while it grants Haunter some much needed recovery, the lack of coverage on Steel-types might put Haunter in an even worse position.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs and nature let Haunter outspeed as many Pokemon as possible while hitting as hard as possible. Life Orb grants Haunter the much needed power, and makes up for the lack of a nature boost. Although Leftovers is a usable possibility to provide recovery, especially if not using Pain Split, Life Orb is the preferred item.</p>

    <p>If using Pain Split, Hidden Power Fighting is a better option than Sludge Bomb for perfect coverage and super effective coverage on Steel-types. Thunderbolt is an other coverage possibility over Hidden Power Ground to hit bulky Water-types, such as Alomomola, Lapras, Wartortle, and Samuott.</p>

    <p>Cinccino is a huge problem for this set as it can break Haunter's Substitute and KO it in the same turn. Pokemon that can take most of what Cinccino can dish out, such as Bastiodon and Probopass, therefore make good partners. Skuntank and Absol are potential threats if they come in at the right time, although Hidden Power Ground easily 2HKOes Skuntank, and if Haunter has a Substitute up it can switch out without fear of Pursuit. Regirock and Sawk are both nice checks to Absol and Skuntank, and consequently pair well with Haunter. Gurdurr is also an excellent partner as it can sweep after Haunter takes out physical walls such as Tangela.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Shadow Ball
    move 2: Sludge Bomb
    move 3: Hidden Power Ground
    move 4: Trick / Thunderbolt
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Haunter can boast of being one of the fastest Choice Scarf users in the tier; with the item boost, it can outspeed Rotom-S, Sawk, Braviary, and Emboar. Haunter's excellent coverage and great Special Attack stat, which is higher than that of even Rotom-S, makes it difficult to switch into. Furthermore, the combination of good Speed and Special Attack allows Haunter to revenge kill a large portion of the tier, such as Serperior and Kadabra.</p>

    <p>The first three moves are there for coverage purposes: Sludge Bomb and Shadow Ball are Haunter's best STAB moves, and Hidden Power Ground provides it with perfect coverage. The fourth move is down to general preference. Trick messes with walls, stall Pokemon, and setup sweepers in the tier, and effectively renders them useless for the rest of the game if you predict correctly, while Thunderbolt hits bulky Water-types such as Alomomola and Wartortle that would otherwise tank Haunter's other moves. Thunderbolt also lets Haunter easily revenge kill Gorebyss, even when it is at +2 Speed.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread—maximum Speed and Special Attack—is obvious for a Choice Scarf-equipped sweeper whose main role in the battle should be to outspeed everything and hit as hard as possible. The Speed investment can be lowered to 184 EVs simply to outrun Choice Scarf Rotom-S and the leftovers be put into HP, but Haunter will not be able to take any hits, so the defensive investment is often useless either way. Destiny Bond can be used in the last slot to take out a final Pokemon that Haunter might not be able to directly KO.</p>

    <p>Haunter is a great Golurk check, as it is able to switch in on Earthquake and KO Golurk. Absol and Skuntank are especially big threats to this Haunter set because it won't have a Substitute to protect it against Pursuit. Gurdurr is thus a great teammate to check these threats. Haunter appreciates hazard support to get extra KOs and to negate the effects of Sturdy and Focus Sash, therefore Garbodor is a nice partner as it is able to set up Spikes. Albeit uncommon, faster Choice Scarf users such as Raichu and Cinccino can revenge kill Haunter, so Pokemon that can tank their hits and take them out are handy for Haunter. Probopass and Bastiodon are excellent teammates that can take all the moves that would be super effective against Haunter.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Haunter has a large number of toys to play with in terms of support and defensive moves—such as Haze, Hypnosis, Perish Song, and Taunt—but simply does not have the bulk to use them to their full extent. Destiny Bond is a great move that can easily take out a Pokemon that Haunter would otherwise be unable to KO. Will-O-Wisp is handy to render many threats useless, but it is difficult to fit onto a set. Nonetheless, a bulky Eviolite set with Will-O-Wisp and Taunt could possibly work by playing off Haunter's resistances and immunities. Giga Drain provides HP recovery that can be useful, and can in particular take out bulky Water-types. A Choice Specs wallbreaking set is very powerful, and even without a Choice Scarf, Haunter would be able to outspeed a great portion of the tier.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Absol and Skuntank are the main threats to Haunter as both can KO it with either Pursuit or Sucker Punch, although the former does struggle to beat SubDisable Haunter. As all of Haunter's sets rely on Speed, so Pokemon that can outspeed and KO it are huge threats. Faster Choice Scarf users, such as Cinccino, Electabuzz, and Raichu, are all nice checks to all three sets, but mainly Choice Scarf, as they can easily revenge kill Haunter. Priority attacks, such as Bullet Punch, Aqua Jet, and Sucker Punch, are naturally another one of Haunter's fears. Carracosta is a great priority user that can use Aqua Jet and KO a Stealth Rock weakened Haunter. Lickilicky is a great counter to Haunter that can take all of Haunter's attacks, although it hates SubDisable Haunter. Steel-type Pokemon, such as Probopass and Bastiodon, completely wall Haunter if it lacks Hidden Power Ground alongside its STABs.</p>

    Show Hide
    [OVERVIEW]

    · Independent NFE that need no eviolite.
    · One of the best purely offensive ghost in the tier
    · three immunities and two 4x weaknesses makes it easy to switch in
    · great speed for NU and a even greater SpAtk
    · excellent movepool with many offensive options, and many other tricks to mess with your opponent (namely Taunt, Trick, Disable, Destiny Bond)
    · Horrible defensive stats, can’t take a hit unless it is a 4x resist, and even then it might do a bit of damage.
    · Must rely on sub if it going to do anything other than attacking
    · Awful Spinblocker, is completely shut down by the only decent spinner in the tier - armaldo

    [SET]
    name: SubDisable
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Disable
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Hidden Power Fighting / Sludge Bomb
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    · Takes advantage of Haunter’s 3 Immunities and 2 4x Resistances
    · Whole idea is to set up a sub and then disable the opponent’s only move that can hit hunter.
    · Shadow Ball is preferred as it is resisted by less Pokémon than Sludge Bomb is.
    · Hidden Power Fighting hits the Pokemon that resist Shadow Ball such as Bastiodon and Probopass
    · Shadow Ball and HP Fighting get perfect coverage in NU
    · Sludge Bomb gets a considerable amount of more power, but many pokemon wall haunter with it

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    · EV spread is to maximise the amount of Pokémon Haunter can outspeed and get a sub up, Timid makes sure it isn’t outsped by the likes of CB sawk.
    · Needs to be careful of Cinccino, as it can break Haunters sub, and KO in the same turn
    · Leftovers is necessary due to being able to heal off the sub damage
    · Haunter appreciates wish support to get rid of sub damage, Alomomola, Audino and Lickilicky are great choices.
    · This set has a lot of trouble with skuntank due to not running HP ground.
    · Golem, Regirock and Torterra all do a good job with taking Skuntank down.
    · Probopass, Regirock and Golem are all also good partners due to being able to wall Swellow and Braviary
    · Gurdurr is again a great partner due to taking advantage on the pokemon Haunter is able to take out


    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Sludge Bomb
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Pain split
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    · Most standard Haunter set
    · Is able to force opponents out, such as Tangela, or Choiced pokemon - stuck on a type that cannot hit Haunter, and set up a sub.
    · Outspeeds a large portion of the tier with a timid nature
    · Sludge Bomb and Shadow Ball are Haunters STAB’s and Hidden Power Ground hits Steel-Types which resist the STAB’s such as Bastiodon and Probopass
    · Three attacks grants haunter more coverage but at the expense of some extra power, needing to run leftovers for recovery
    · Can run two attacks with life orb and pain split for recovery, though steel types wall it completely then.
    · If you are running Pain Split, LO if the better choice, though 3 attacks prefers Leftovers

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    · When running Pain Split, hidden power fighting can be used over sludge bomb for the excellent coverage and not being walled by steels.
    · Though if you need extra power Life Orb is preferred due to not sacrificing the much needed speed.
    · Thunderbolt can be run as the coverage move over HP ground to hit Alomomola and other bulky water types such as Lapras, Samurott or Wartortle harder.
    · Needs to be careful of Cinccino, as it can break Haunters sub, and KO in the same turn
    · Skuntank is a huge problem though HP ground 2hko’s
    · Absol is a huge thread, though if haunter has a sub up it is able to switch without fear of pursuit
    · Regirock and Sawk both check Absol and Skuntank, so they are both good teammates.
    · Gurdurr is a great teammate due to being able to sweep easily after haunter takes out walls such as Tangela.

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Shadow Ball
    move 2: Sludge Bomb
    move 3: Hidden Power Ground
    move 4: Trick / Thunderbolt
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    · One of the fastest common scarfers in the tier, outspeeds Rotom-S, Sawk, Braviary and Emboar
    · Can hit the most of the tier supereffectively, if not neutrally.
    · Great SpAtk, hits harder than Rotom-S, is quite difficult to switch in to.
    · Trick messes with most of the walls that switch in to it who it cannot KO easily
    · Trick pretty much disables any eviolite user for the whole battle.
    · Thunderbolt gets an easy revenge kill on gorebyss
    · Revenge Kills Serperior, Kadabra

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]



    · Thunderbolt can be run over trick for coverage, hits Alomomola harder
    · Speed EVs can be lowered to 184 to just outspeed Choice Scarf Rotom-S, as thats the most speed it really needs, and the rest can be placed into HP.
    · Absol and Skuntank are both huge threats to Haunter due to packing both Pursuit and Sucker Punch, so Gurdurr is a great teammate.
    · Appreciates hazard support so gain those extra KO’s. Propbopass and Bastiodon are both great due to resisting Psychic, Ghost and Dark which all plague Haunter
    · Can switch into Golurk's Earthquake and KO back.
    · Faster scarfers albeit uncommon, such as Raichu and Cinccino, are able to revenge Haunter, so pokemon to take these out or priority users are handy for Haunter.
    · Destiny Bond can be used to take out that Final Pokemon that hauter may not be able to KO

    [Other Options]

    · Destiny Bond is great to take out slower threats
    · Will-o-wisp
    · Giga Drain is good for taking out Alomomola and the extra HP is helpful.
    · Haunter has access to Haze, Hypnosis, Perish Song, and Taunt though cannot abuse any of these to their full extent due to Haunters extreme frailty
    · Bulky Eviolite set with will-o-wisp and possibly taunt, haunter has a lot of innumities/resists and can take a fair few resisted hits.
    · Can run a specs wall breaker set which is very powerful.

    [Checks and Counters]

    · Absol and Skuntank are both counters due to Pursuit and Sukerpunch which both easily KO haunter
    · Though Absol struggles to win against Sub-Disable haunter, though getting a sub up is of upmost importance.
    · Becuse haunters main merit for all three sets is being able to outspeed a lot of things, pokemon that outspeed him are able to easily KO.
    · Faster scarfers namely Raichu, Cinccino and Electabuzz are able to revenge scarf haunter
    · Priority users – anything that carries bullet punch, suckerpunch or aqua jet can KO
    · Lickilicky is a great counter, though it hates sub disable
    · Steel types completely wall haunter if it isn’t running HP ground. Probopass and Bastiodon for example, because they resist STABs
  2. Amarillo

    Amarillo
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2010
    Messages:
    717
    Not a QC but a couple of things:

    • SubDisable Haunter is one of its best sets. It's a lot better than Scarf and tons more common, too. Usage isn't necessarily a telling measure of stuff, but frankly it's my favorite set for a reason and I believe it's a lot better than the scarf set which sees situational use.
    • Either you incorporate SubDisable into the first set, or you make Life Orb the first slash for its item choice on the #1 set. Life Orb hits a lot harder and LO makes Subsplit a lot harder to deal with. With Leftovers being your first item choice, I don't see why Pain Split should be part of that set and not Disable.
    • No need to gripe too much about Subdisable Haunter not being able to hit Swellow and BRaviary because Swellow's only got Brave Bird to hit Haunter and they'll need to U-turn out which just stacks SR damage and the Swellow didn't really get anywhere. Braviary is almost always choiced and that means if Haunter has a sub Braviary can't do anything.
    • In the counters section, note that Absol (with LO, as with almost all of them) will lose to Subdisable Haunter all the time even if it doesn't switch in. With Substitute prediction, Absol's more of a check /at best/ and Absol really does lose 3/4 of the time (probably my math is wrong but it makes sense to me. It's at least more than half.)
  3. breh

    breh
    is a Smogon IRC AOP

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,113
    Why is HP fighting on SubDisable? I thought that most used HP Ground...

    I feel like slot 3 of Substitute should just be Pain Split / HP Ground (in that order) with Thunderbolt in AC; Thunderbolt is kind of auxiliary at best.
  4. Vintage Books

    Vintage Books

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    509
    If you run hp ground you cannot hit swellow or braviary and any other normal flying types. I'll add the rest in and I'll put ground in AC. I'll read the read the rest of your stuff Amarillo when I get home
  5. Django

    Django
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,813
    Overview:

    • Remove that bit about being the only offensive Ghost in NU, SubPlot Missy and AcroBlimp say hi.
    Substitute:

    • Life Orb should be the main option. Pain Split is there to get rid of that damage, and its really is weak with Leftovers and Timid. As such, deslash Leftovers. Life Orb makes bluffing a choice item at first very doable.
    • What breh said, move Thunderbolt to AC, deslash it. It almost never uses it, as specially defensive Water types are few and far between in NU.
    • Mention Bastiodon and Probopass explicity when talking about HP Ground.
    • Stress the fact that if Haunter does not run Pain Split then it will need to be very careful about when it uses Substitute. In fact I wouldn't mind seeing the set be Sub / Split / Shadow Ball / HP Fighting but I'll leave that up to you; I have rarely used Substitute Haunter, I personally dislike the set.
    • Mention HP Fighting in AC, mainly for the perfect coverage it gets with Shadow Ball.
    • I really don't like Modest on Haunter; being outsped by stuff like Magmortar and Sawk really really sucks, 2HKOing offensive Cryo is cool and all but I don't think it is worth it.
    • What hazards does it need to OHKO Skuntank? Mention these and good partners to set them up explicity.
    • Gurdurr as an amazing teammate. Haunter loves breaking down walls like Tangela, while Gurdurr destroys dark types.
    Choice Scarf:

    • Explain how Thunderbolt lets you revenge kill Gorebyss with ease.
    • Mention some other stuff it revenge kills, Serperior, most Psychic-types etc.
    • See comments above about Modest. Also cannot revenge Gorebyss.
    • Specific KOs here please (I like detail in these skeletons)
    • Mention Destiny Bond in AC here, it really can be helpful in taking out a final Pokemon, but must be used with care.
    SubDisable

    • Remove Modest. SubDisable needs to be fast.
    • Mention Shadow Ball / HP Fighting perfect coverage.
    • Explain how Sludge Bomb kinda sucks since loads of Pokemon wall Haunter then.
    • Mention Gurdurr here again.
    Other Options:

    • Mention a bulky Eviolite set with Will-O-Wisp and possibly Taunt. Its pretty average, but Haunter can certainly take a few attacks with Eviolite and fast Will-O-Wisp is cool.
    Checks and Counters:

    • What amarillo said, Absol is more of a check, and it realyl struggles to switch in. Skuntank is a good counter though, sans HP Ground.
    • Lickilicky is a pretty good counter, but hates SubDisable.
    • Cryogonal. It either outspeeds and KOs (and can switch in) or just flat out walls it.
    I think thats it for now. Sorry this is pretty long, just being as detailed as possible. Oh also, SubDisable and Substitute should swap places, at least in my opinion.

    Just so your aware, all of the slashed moves should be discussed in [SET COMMENTS] while anything else viable on the set which is not mentioned in the set should be put in [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS].
  6. spuds4ever

    spuds4ever

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Messages:
    687
    Is the extra sub granted by leftovers really worth all that extra power from LO on the first set? I think Haunter should really be making the most of the few times it can switch in and hit as hard as possible. I think it might be an idea to replace leftovers with spooky plate or toxic plate (or whatever it's called) but I haven't used haunter loads, so it's your call.
  7. Vintage Books

    Vintage Books

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    509
    All of Django's stuff has been put in
  8. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,691
    SubDisable should be the first set. It's amazing and has won me many, many games with how easily it can shut down teams with some prediction. Notice how in your checks and counters section, many of the checks you listed struggle against the SubDisable set. Choice Scarf Haunter is alright, but not as good as the two Substitute sets, and should be last.

    Mention in the Overview that Haunter is an awful spinblocker. Some people still think that Haunter is a decent offensive spinblocker. The two best Rapid Spin users in the tier, Cryogonal and Armaldo, beat it. Cryogonal destroys Haunter and Armaldo can take a hit and OHKO back. Some people also use Rock Blast on Armaldo which destroys Haunter's Substitutes.

    I have a bit of an issue with the move ordering in the sets: Substitute should be first on both the Substitute and SubDisable sets. Disable should be right after Substitute on SubDisable.

    After you make all of these changes, QC Approve 1/3
  9. Django

    Django
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,813
    Do what DTC said (I think Scarf is better than regular Substitute but eh, the ordering could go either way, as long as Disable is first).

    Also mention Choice Specs in AC, it is strong as hell. After that QC APPROVE 2/3
  10. Vintage Books

    Vintage Books

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    509
    bumping for QC
  11. shnen

    shnen שוני
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2011
    Messages:
    873
  12. Vintage Books

    Vintage Books

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    509
    cool. will get onto this as soon as I can.
  13. Vintage Books

    Vintage Books

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    509
    I was just thinking I probably should wait for the metagame to settle and redo this.
  14. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    882
    To be honest, there's not much that needs changing. Haunter's actually gotten a little better as Cryogonal is gone and can no longer wall it effortlessly, and Haunter can switch into Golurk's Earthquake and either take it out or set up with ease. However, the rise of Absol makes the Substitute sets of crucial importance.
  15. Vintage Books

    Vintage Books

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    509
    Ok, ill just add the fact it can easily take out golurk, if that's all
  16. Django

    Django
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,813
    You should also mention the fact that its Substitute sets need to be wary of Cinccino, as it can easiyl KO through a Sub with Rock Blast. One sentence in both the Substitute sets AC should suffice.
  17. Vintage Books

    Vintage Books

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    509
    Written, Ready for GP
  18. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,022
    you need to put in the <p> </p> tags
  19. Vintage Books

    Vintage Books

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    509
    oh shit. thanks for that
  20. sirndpt

    sirndpt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,118

    some things:
    • ability tag isn't needed as haunter only has one ability
    • under the evs: tag, special attack is abbreviated as SpA, not SpAtk
    • abuse has connotations of "misuse" or "use for a bad purpose"; don't use it in place of "take advantage of", "make use of", or simply "use"
    • Substitute, not substitute, and certainly not sub
    • capitalize stats as well: Special Attack, Attack, Speed etc
    • Steel-types, not Steel-Types or Steel types - also, bulky Water-types, not bulky Waters
    • KOes (2HKOes, etc) is the verb, KOs is the plural noun
    • smogon uses the serial comma: Bastiodon, Probopass(,) and Miltank / Bullet Punch, Aqua Jet(,) or Sucker Punch
    • Choice Scarf sweeper, not "Scarf" nor "choiced" - also Choice Band Sawk, not CB Sawk
    • (particularly in the [checks and counters] section: when you're talking about set names, such as Choice Scarf users or SubDisable Haunter, etc, no hyphens are needed

    and just a note that "due to it being resisted by less Pokemon" / "due to walling Swellow and Braviary" / "due to being able to switch in on Earthquake" is rather awkward sounding

    overall, you need to put a little more effort into your writeup and be much more formal imo! the fact that many of these conventions are in the spelling and grammar standards thread aside, things like capitalizing Haunter and the possessive form being Haunter's (as opposed to "haunters") should be quite obvious, as is the fact that stuff like "though Haunter is not going to be taking any hits anytime soon so it is not a big deal either way" don't really have a place on a formal analysis that's going to go onsite. :d

    [​IMG]
  21. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,249
    is there a reason Sludge Wave isn't slashed everywhere where Sludge Bomb is? Same accuracy, more power, only less chance to Poison, which isn't worth using Sludge Bomb imo
  22. CrashinBoomBang

    CrashinBoomBang Terrific Battler.
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Foreman

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,022
    The problem is that the 5 extra base power doesn't come in handy often while the 30% poison rate is a lot more significant against Pokemon you can't beat otherwise such as Lickilicky, Audino and Regirock. Sludge Bomb should always be the first choice.
  23. Vintage Books

    Vintage Books

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    509
    put in all of sirndpt's checks.

    Show Hide
    awkward because English is my first language :<
  24. Cereza

    Cereza Tastes Like Candy

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,261
    will am check /)_(\
    [Overview]

    <p>In a tier riddled with bulky Eviolite-wielding NFE's, Haunter stands out as one of the only common pre-evolutions to have no use for the item. With its great Special Attack stat and relatively good Speed, Haunter is one of the best offensive Ghost-Types in the tier. Furthermore, thanks to three common immunities and two 4x resistances, Haunter has no trouble finding an opening to switch in. Its excellent offensive movepool and many other tricks, which include Taunt, Trick, and Disable give Haunter a variety of ways to mess with the opponent.</p>

    <p>However, courtesy of its horrid defensive stats, Haunter it can rarely take an unresisted hit, and is often forced to rely on a Substitute if it wishes to do anything other than attack. In addition, despite being a Ghost-type, Haunter is easily shut down easily by the only decent spinner in the tier, Armaldo. Even with its drawbacks, though, Haunter is an unpredictable threat, and is a great choice for teams of many different playstyles.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubDisable
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Disable
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Hidden Power Fighting / Sludge Bomb
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    <p>This set is perfect for people who take pride in making their opponents as frustrated as possible, by taking advantage of Haunter's three immunities and two 4x resistances, namely to Ground, Fighting, Normal, as well as Poison and Bug. As a large portion of the metagame only carries only one move that can hit it, between Substitute and Disable Haunter is able to make the opponent unable to damage it at all. The idea is to set up a Substitute while the opponent tries to attack then use Disable to render the opponent useless. Many Pokemon will be unable to hit Haunter at all if heit is behind a Substitute and has Disable at hiits disposal.</p>

    <p>Shadow Ball is the preferred STAB move as it has better coverage than Sludge Bomb does. Hidden Power Fighting hits Pokemon that resist or are immune to Shadow Ball, such as Bastiodon, Probopass, and Miltank; anddditionally, the combination of Shadow Ball and Hidden Power Fighting gets perfect coverage in NU. Sludge Bomb can be used over Hidden Power for aFighting for considerably more power, but this leaves Haunter walled by many Pokemon, such as Bastiodon and Probopass, among others.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Haunter should aim to outspeed as many Pokemon as possible so it can successfully put a sSubstitute up against them. In particular, a Timid nature ensures that Haunter can outrun Choice Band Sawk. Leftovers is necessary because it enables Haunter to heal off Substitute damage, and possibly grants it an extra Substitute in the long run.</p>

    <p>Even with Leftovers recovery, however, Haunter does appreciate Wish support from the likes of Alomomola, Lickilicky, and Audino. As with all sets that rely on Substitute, this set is completely destroyed by Cinccino, who can break Haunter's Substitute and easily KO it in the same turn. So somethingPokemon that can take most of Cinccino's attacks, such as Nosepass orand Bastiodon can be an, are excellent teammates. Skuntank is also quite a problem as it can trap and KO Haunter with Night Slash, Sucker Punch or Pursuit, and Haunter lacks Hidden Power Ground to damage it. Your best chance is to switch to a teammate that can take out Skuntank while Haunter's Substitute is still up; Torterra, Golem and Regirock all do a good job in taking Skuntank down. Golem, Regirock, and Nosepass are good teammates due toas they walling Swellow, who can be problematic do the beingas it is able to outspeed and KO Haunter. Gurdurr is a great partner as it can take advantage of the removal of Pokemon Haunter is easily able to take out.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Shadow Ball
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Pain split
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>PThis is probably the Haunter set that is the's simplest and easiest set to use. This set aims to give Haunter a bit more longevity to do some decent damage. Substitute protects Haunter from status, particularly paralysis, that would otherwise render it useless, and also insures it against priority moves and powerful attacks from faster Pokemon. Haunter can easily come in on one of its three common immunities force out a Choice-locked opponent, such as Sawk or Emboar, and set up a Substitute. Sludge Bomb and Shadow Ball are Haunter's most powerful STAB options, while Hidden Power Ground, gives it coverage on all the Pokemon that resist these two moves, most importantly Bastiodon, Probopass, and Skuntank. Pain Split is an option over Hidden Power Ground; while it grants Haunter some much needed recovery, the lack of coverage on Steel-types might put Haunter in an even worse position.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs and nature let Haunter outspeed as many Pokemon as possible while hitting as hard as possible. Life Orb grants Haunter the much needed power, and makes up for the lack of a nature boost. Although Leftovers is a usable possibility to provide recovery, especially if not using Pain Split, Life Orb is in most situations the preferred item.</p>

    <p>If using Pain Split, Hidden Power Fighting is a better option than Sludge Bomb for perfect coverage and super effective coverage on Steel-types. Thunderbolt is another coverage possibility over Hidden Power Ground to hit bulky Water-types, such as Alomomola, Lapras, Wartortle, and Samurott.</p>

    <p>Cinccino is a huge problem for this set as it can break Haunter's Substitute and KO it in the same turn. Pokemon that can take most of what Cinccino can dish out, such as Bastiodon and Probopass, therefore make good partners. Skuntank and Absol are potential threats if they comes in at the right time, though Hidden Power Ground easily 2HKOes Skuntank easily, and if Haunter has a Substitute up, it can switch out without fear of Pursuit. Regirock and Sawk are both nice checks to Absol and Skuntank, and consequently pair well with Haunter. Gurdurr is also an excellent partner as it can sweep after Haunter takes out physical walls such as Tangela.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Shadow Ball
    move 2: Sludge Bomb
    move 3: Hidden Power Ground
    move 4: Trick / Thunderbolt
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Haunter can boast of being one of the fastest Choice Scarf users in the tier; with the item boost, it can outspeed Rotom-S, Sawk, Braviary, and Emboar. Haunter's excellent coverage and great Special Attack stat, which is higher than that of even Rotom-S, make it difficult to switch into. Furthermore, the combination of good Speed and Special Attack allows Haunter to revenge kill a large portion of the tier, such as Serperior and Kadabra.</p>

    <p>The first three moves are there for coverage purposes: Sludge Bomb and Shadow Ball are Haunter's best STAB moves, and Hidden Power Ground forprovides it with perfect coverage. The fourth move is down to general preference. Trick messes with walls, stall Pokemon, and setup sweepers in the tier, and effectively renders them useless for the rest of the game if you predict correctly, while Thunderbolt hits bulky Water-types such as Alomomola and Wartortle who would otherwise be able to tank Haunter's other moves. Thunderbolt also lets Haunter easily revenge kill Gorebyss.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread—maximum Speed and Special Attack—is obvious for aChoice Scarf-equipped sweeper whose main role in the battle should be to outspeed everything and hit as hard as possible. The Speed investment can be lowered to 184 EVs simply to outrun Choice Scarf Rotom-S and the leftovers be put into HP,but Haunter will not be able to take any hits, so the defensive investment is often useless either way. Destiny Bond can be used in the last slot to take out a final Pokemon that Haunter might not be able to directly KO.</p>

    <p>Haunter is a great Golurk check, as it is able to switch in on Earthquake and KO Golurk. Absol and Skuntank are especially big threats to this Haunter setbecause it won't have a Substitute to protect it againstPursuit. Gurdurr is thus a great teammate to check these threats. Haunter very much appreciates hazard support to get extraKOs and to negate the effects of Sturdyand Focus Sash, because of this Garbodor is a nice partner due to beingas it is able to set up Spikes up.. Albeit uncommon, faster Choice Scarf users such as Raichu and Cinccinocan revenge kill Haunter, so Pokemon that can tank their hits and take them out are handy for Haunter. Probopass and Bastiodon are excellent teammates that can take all the moves that would be super effective against Haunter.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Haunter has a largenumber of toys to play with in terms of support and defensive moves—such as Haze, Hypnosis, Perish Song, and Taunt—but simply does not have the bulk to use them to their full extent. Destiny Bond is a great move that can easily take out a Pokemon that Haunter would otherwise be unable to KO. Will-O-Wisp is handy to render many threats useless, but it is difficult to fit onto a set. Nonetheless, a bulky Eviolite set with Will-O-Wisp and Taunt could possibly work by playing off Haunter's resistances and immunities. Giga Drain provides HP recovery that can be useful, and can in particular take out bulky Water-types. A Choice Specs wallbreaking set would beis very powerful, and even without a Choice Scarf, Haunter would be able to outspeed a great portion of the tier.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Absol and Skuntank are the main threats to Haunter as both can KO himit with either Pursuit or Sucker Punch, though the former does struggle to beat SubDisable Haunter. As all of Haunter's sets rely on Speed, Pokemon that can outspeed and KO it are huge threats. Faster Choice Scarf users, such as Cinccino, Electabuzz, and Raichu, are all nice checks to all three sets, but mainly Choice Scarf, as they can easily revenge kill Haunter easily. Priority moves, such as in the form of Bullet Punch, Aqua Jet, orand Sucker Punch, isare naturally another of Haunter's huge fears; therefore, threaten Haunter. Carracosta is a great priority user who can use Aqua Jet and KO a Stealth Rock weakened Haunter. Lickilicky is a great counter to Haunter that can take all of Haunter's attacks, although it hates SubDisable Haunter. Steel-type Pokemon, such as Probopass and Bastiodon, completely wall Haunter if it lacks coverage moves other than its STABs.</p>
  25. Vintage Books

    Vintage Books

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    509
    thanks cereza, checks are put in

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)