Hawlucha (Revamp) (QC 2/3)

Adamant Zoroark

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QC checks: [Valentine] [alexwolf] [ ]


Overview
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-Unique typing, getting STAB on both Fighting and Flying, which have pretty good coverage together
-Now that Aegislash is gone, Hawlucha has more opportunities to wreak havoc and no longer requires Pursuit support
-Fighting STAB and Stealth Rock neutrality main niches over Mega Pinsir
-Rekt by Talonflame and Mega Pinsir
-Bulk? Hahahaha what's that.
-Has trouble breaking through key defensive walls like Zapdos and Clefable
-92 base Attack isn't that great
-After it gets the Unburden boost, good luck checking it even with a Choice Scarf user – But you only get one opportunity to use that Unburden boost!
-Absolutely not the best Pokemon to use in OU, but with the right support, it has the potential to do serious damage

Substitute + Swords Dance
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name: Substitute + Swords Dance
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Acrobatics
move 4: High Jump Kick
ability: Unburden
item: Sitrus Berry
evs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
========

-Substitute gives Hawlucha a buffer to set up, while also allowing it to bring itself down Berry activation. Sitrus Berry lets Hawlucha recover some damage from subbing down and activates Unburden when used. Substitute also allows Hawlucha to set up on Gliscor without fearing Toxic
-Once you're all set up, High Jump Kick is your obligatory STAB, while Acrobatics allows you to get a hard hit on those that resist High Jump Kick like Gengar and the Lati twins.

Set Details
========

-EV spread ensures Hawlucha can outspeed Starmie and Raikou pre-Unburden while still having a HP stat divisible by 4
-Adamant can be used if you don't care about pre-Unburden speed; if running Adamant, the EV spread should be 124 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spe as this outruns Jolly Excadrill in Sand after Unburden. However, beware that this will make setup more difficult

Usage Tips
========

-If using Sitrus, simply sub, then SD, then sub again to activate Sitrus Berry
-If you use Substitute as something faster comes in, you can Sub again as they attack to activate Sitrus Berry, and then you can Swords Dance on the next turn
-Seriously, don't try setting up until all of Hawlucha's checks and counters are out of the way or weakened enough for Hawlucha to sweep – Should be obvious
-Set up Substitute against Pokemon that Hawlucha forces out - Think Heatran, Chansey, and so forth
-You can use High Jump Kick before setting up to possibly help wear checks down
-Liechi Berry can also be used to grant Hawlucha an additional Attack boost, but you don't KO many Pokemon at +3 that you wouldn't KO at +2

Team Options
========

-Hippowdon and Skarmory can easily stop you from setting up and subbing down to your Berry with Whirlwind, and Zapdos is not letting you sweep; Although they do not have good defensive synergy with Hawlucha, Mega Heracross and Mega Medicham are great wallbreakers that can wear them down. If your Mega slot is already taken, Terrakion is another fine option; Gothitelle also works as it can trap many physical walls Hawlucha wants weakened/removed
-Magnezone can remove non-Shed Shell Skarmory, non-Superpower (Mega) Scizor, and Protect Ferrothorn; can also revenge kill Mega Pinsir if Choice Scarf
-Priority from the likes of Talonflame, Scizor, and Azumarill will cut your sweep short; Rotom-W helps against all three
-Mega Manectric is a good offensive partner that can check Talonflame and Mega Pinsir; Raikou also checks these threats, and can function much more easily against Thundurus with Assault Vest

Sky Attack
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name: Sky Attack
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Acrobatics
move 3: High Jump Kick
move 4: Sky Attack
ability: Unburden
item: Power Herb
evs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
========

-Swords Dance is self-explanatory, boost up that Attack (311 Attack is so bad...)
-Sky Attack uses up your Power Herb to activate Unburden and hits hard in general; after that, Acrobatics is your primary Flying-type STAB, covering whatever High Jump Kick doesn't (Gengar, Mega Gardevoir, Latios/Latias, etc.) while also getting a harder hit on Pokemon such as Keldeo
-High Jump Kick is Fighting-type gold; you'll be hitting just about everything that doesn't resist it really hard.

Set Details
========

-EVs ensure that Hawlucha outspeeds anything up to and including Starmie before Unburden
-Adamant can be used for extra power, but outspeeding certain threats (e.g. Keldeo) pre-Unburden is extremely important with this set

Usage Tips
========

-Simple: Use Swords Dance, use Sky Attack to put the hurt on and use up your Power Herb, and enjoy! But DO NOT SET UP UNTIL HAWLUCHA'S CHECKS AND COUNTERS ARE GONE OR SEVERELY WEAKENED. You will only get one opportunity to set everything up, so make it count.
-You can use High Jump Kick early-game to help wear down the opponent (be careful about Ghosts and Protect)
-Maybe try using something weak to High Jump Kick as setup bait; you probably don't want Hawlucha to try to take a hit, it's not that bulky

Team Options
========

-Talonflame and Mega Pinsir will destroy you, so pack Pokemon such as Heatran and/or Rotom-W that can tank a Brave Bird and an Aerilate Quick Attack, respectively – Heatran in particular has great defensive synergy with Hawlucha, though won't help you against Mega Pinsir. Mega Manectric is a good offensive check to Talonflame and Mega Pinsir; Assault Vest Raikou also checks these threats and can take on Thundurus much more easily
-Magnezone can also cover Skarmory, Scizor, and Protect Ferrothorn; Choice Scarf Magnezone in particular can also revenge kill Mega Pinsir
-Good luck breaking through Zapdos and Clefable. The aforementioned Heatran can beat Clefable, especially when running Taunt, while you may want Pokemon like Terrakion or Tyranitar to help against Zapdos

Other Options
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-Damn this thing has a shallow movepool
-Limber (Please don't... Maybe for Thundurus though to become immune to T-wave?)
-Baton Pass?
-Rock Slide or Stone Edge to try to catch Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, and Thundurus on the switch

Checks & Counters
########

-Physical walls (Skarmory, Hippowdon, Doublade, Slowbro, etc.)
-Zapdos resists both STABs and OHKOes
-Unaware Clefable and Quagsire ignore boosts
-Priority (especially from Talonflame and Mega Pinsir)
-Protect forces Hawlucha to lose 50% of its health from High Jump Kick
-Prankster users can easily cripple it, especially Thundurus since it resists both of Hawlucha's STABs and can easily cripple it with priority Thunder Wave
-Anything faster before the Unburden boost can check it before it gets the boost (beware of SubSD though, as it can use Substitute as a buffer and then use Substitute again on the same turn you attack)
 
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Remove Poison Jab from OO. You pretty much mentioned the reasons not to use it already.

Thundurus should probably receive a much bigger mention for the C&C section since it resist both of Hawlucha's STAB moves and can paralyze it w/ prankster Thunder Wave.

Add Raikou as a partner since it checks a lot of Hawlucha's Checks and counters like Talonflame, Thundurus, and Mega Pinsir.
 

Adamant Zoroark

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Remove Poison Jab from OO. You pretty much mentioned the reasons not to use it already.

Thundurus should probably receive a much bigger mention for the C&C section since it resist both of Hawlucha's STAB moves and can paralyze it w/ prankster Thunder Wave.

Add Raikou as a partner since it checks a lot of Hawlucha's Checks and counters like Talonflame, Thundurus, and Mega Pinsir.
Done. I assumed you had Assault Vest Raikou in mind (though I'll remove the AV mention if requested) so I specified that.
 

Aragorn the King

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Three more things.

1. If you mention Limber, mention that it's okay against Thundurus-I. You're forced to run Jolly, but you become immune to T-Wave, and can actually beat Thundurus with SD + Stone Edge.

Actually HJK with a Life Orb 2HKOs Thundy, so you don't need a rock move on a Limber Set.

Also in OO, remove BU. It's weak to flying, so I don't think it could pull it off at all.

2. In C&C, under physical walls or on a separate dash, mention Doublade. It takes like no damage from any attack, and is a good option on stall teams now that makes Hawl's life hard.

3. In C&C, separate Clefable and Zapdos. One is a Fairy-type check to setup sweepers, and one is a BirdSpam check + defogger. There's really no similarities, so I think, if you think they're both really significant, each should be a separate bullet (along with Doublade, and maybe Skarm).

edit: oh yeah, since both sets have SD, i think renaming set two to Sky Attack would be good.
 
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I've used both Hawlucha sets and I honestly think SubSD is by far the best while Sky Attack is rather underwhelming and I'd almost always use SubSD. I'd like some opinions on the inclusion of that set; I think it's viable but I'd almost always want to use the first set.
 
A couple of other things i noticed:
  • Chesnaught and skarmory don't seem like ideal partners since both function better on stall teams and have terrible synergy with hawlucha.
  • Magnezone should probably be mentioned as a partner since it can take care of mons like non-shed shell Skarmory, non-Superpower Mega Scizor and ferrothorn that hawlucha has trouble with. It can also revenge kill Mega Pinsir.
 

Adamant Zoroark

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A couple of other things i noticed:
  • Chesnaught and skarmory don't seem like ideal partners since both function better on stall teams and have terrible synergy with hawlucha.
  • Magnezone should probably be mentioned as a partner since it can take care of mons like non-shed shell Skarmory, non-Superpower Mega Scizor and ferrothorn that hawlucha has trouble with. It can also revenge kill Mega Pinsir.
Done. I also added Protect to C&C as it's forcing Hawlucha to take 50% damage.

So I guess we're just waiting for a verdict on the Sky Attack set?
 

Vinc2612

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I've been using the subSD set Hawlucha for a while and I highly suggest you a more bulky spread of 252 HP/252+ Atk/4 wherever you want.
You still outspeed everying you need once unburden is up (scarf Starmie is slower), and you can tank several moves way more easily:


252 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 150-177 (41.6 - 49.1%) - You can set up and win
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 153-180 (42.5 - 50%) - 2HKO in the worst case scenario, but if it is in HJK range you can set up on it (and it's almost never full atk anyway)
0 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hawlucha: 230-272 (63.8 - 75.5%) - If he expects sub he won't use will o wisp, so you have +2 unburden active 40% life Hawlucha

That's just a small overview of the three main checks in BO that can be beaten by running 252 HP. Of course there is no way to beat Pinsir/Talonflame and Thundurus will paralyse it but nobody's perfect. About stall, Slowbro is the main counter atm but it can still lose if he doesn't run psyshock (relying on a 50/50 switch for regen/SD again). Skarmory has usually only counters to deal damages, so it will break the sub? Zapdos is the best counter, nothing to say about him.
 
I used Vinc's set in yesterday's tour and I can say it's deadly. You will face a lot of situation which involve lando-t and rotom-w and being able to take their hits is the difference between lose and win.


Edit: I'm wrong, I used something different. Less bulk for more speed. Something like 120 ev in hp, to have enough speed to outspeed excadrill in sand.
 
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Adamant Zoroark

catchy catchphrase
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252 HP EVs does make the stat divisible by 4, but 120 HP EVs does not. Hawlucha only needs to hit 303 Speed to outrun even Jolly Excadrill under Sand after the Unburden boost, but, assuming 252 EVs in Attack and all of the leftovers going into HP, we are left with 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe, which gets an HP stat of 330, which is not divisible by 4, which I'm pretty sure is pretty important since it has to be divisible by 4 in order to activate Sitrus Berry after 2 Substitutes. The next HP stat down that is divisible by 4 is 328, requiring 124 EVs. Going off the threats in Vinc's post, I have these calcs at that much HP:

252 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 124 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 150-177 (45.7 - 53.9%)
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 124 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 153-180 (46.6 - 54.8%)
0 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 124 HP / 0 SpD Hawlucha: 230-272 (70.1 - 82.9%)

Rotom-W does a lot more with Volt Switch, but Hawlucha will still live the hit even with Stealth Rock up (while 12 HP can be OHKOed after Stealth Rock) so you still come out on top, so judging by this, the EV spread should probably be 124 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spe. Thoughts on this?
 

Adamant Zoroark

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I suppose I should do something about the lack of progress on this.

What does QC think about Jolly on the Sky Attack set? After some testing, I think Sky Attack Hawlucha at least wants to outrun Gengar and Lati@s pre-Unburden, though Starmie would probably be a nice target too. So for that set, I'm thinking Jolly with enough EVs to outrun Starmie would be ideal.

e: This EV spread would be 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
 
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Jukain

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i would never run sky attack hawlucha, both sets should be jolly though the speed is extremely important for keld/rak/latis/thund/raikou before you get unburden.
 
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Adamant Zoroark

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Jukain can't even get it right that it's Unburden and not a Mega Evolution, he shouldn't be on the QC team

lol jk

Also, important: Outspeeding Thundurus doesn't matter at all because it's Prankster T-waving you anyway and resists both of your STABs.

Jolly is definitely better on Sky Attack, but I found Substitute would prefer extra HP investment for reasons already discussed above. Plus, from my experience with SubSD Hawlucha, you either have a Substitute up or have Unburden activated, so it doesn't seem like pre-Unburden Speed matters as much, because honestly, with that set, you're forcing out something that fears HJK so you can get a Substitute up, and exactly how many people are going to use a non-attacking move when you have a Substitute up? I guess being able to force out Terrakion so you can set up would be nice (Let's face it, you are not forcing anything out unless HJK lands an OHKO, or on something locked into Pursuit or some shit like that) but that's the only reason I can think of to run Jolly on SubSD, so if QC agrees that SubSD should be Jolly, that is what I will emphasize.

Either way, I'll change Sky Attack to Jolly with the EVs in my previous post and wait for more QC input before changing SubSD to Jolly because I definitely want more opinions on that.
 

aim

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Agree with Jolly on both. Allows you to set up a sub on a lati who has taken damage also outspeeding other threats though i usually only hit 354 speed since raikou isnt super common.
 

alexwolf

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Change the first set to Jolly and the correct spread.

Also, mention some good wallbreaking partners for Hawlucha, such as Gengar and Mega Gardevoir, both able to take advantage of most of the stuff that trouble Hawlucha or wear them down, so that Hawlucha has an easier time sweeping. Also, add Memento Latios, wonderful partner.

Do those and

QC APPROVED 2/3
 
Landorus-T should be mentioned in Team Options as an answer to Flying-types; I almost always see Hawlucha paired with both Scarf Landorus-T and Rotom-W for extra insurance against them.
 

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