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Pokémon Hawlucha

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by Molk, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    [​IMG]

    Pokedex Number: #701

    Type(s): Fighting/Flying

    (Estimated) Base Stats: 78 / 92 / 75 / 74 / 63 / 118

    Abilities Unburden, Limber, and Mold Breaker​

    Notable Moves:

    Roost
    Encore
    Hone Claws
    High Jump Kick
    Swords Dance
    Flying Press
    Acrobatics
    U-turn
    Bulk Up
    Baton Pass​

    Hawlucha seems like it has the potentional to be a pretty solid Pokemon from what we've seen of it so far, while its stats bar Speed are nothing amazing, it has two great STABs in Fighting and Flying, High Base Power moves to go along with those STABs in the form of Acrobatics and High Jump Kick, a great boosting move in Swords Dance, Encore to grab set up opportunities, and even Unburden to make a potential Acrobatics set that much more dangerous. So far, the set below is what i think will be best on Hawlucha, but of course this could change as we find out more about it.​


    Hawlucha @ Flying Gem
    Ability: Unburden
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant or Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Acrobatics
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Baton Pass / Encore​

    This set aims to set up a Swords Dance by either forcing a switch or using a fast Encore to force a Pokemon into an undesirable move, then sweep using Hawlucha's high base power STABs and decent to excellent Attack and Speed stats. After a Swords Dance boost, Flying Gem Acrobatics will put a huge dent in pretty much anything that doesn't resist it, and will probably OHKO anything that isn't incredibly physically bulky (hell even physically defensive Hippowdon will take 64% min from +2 Flying Gem Acrobatics given the current estimated stat). Thankfully, most of the things that resist Acrobatics, happen to be weak to Hawlucha's 130 BP STAB High Jump Kick, making it pretty easy to get past them as long as they aren't Aegislash. As an added bonus to using Flying Gem Acrobatics, Hawlucha has a good ability in Unburden that doubles its Speed stat after its Flying Gem has been used up, making Hawlucha nearly impossible to revenge kill without a powerful priority move once it gets going. Either a jolly or Adamant nature could probably be used, Jolly gives Hawlucha a bit more Speed pre Unburden (lets it outpace positive natured base 105's and up before getting the Flying Gem boost) while Adamant gives Hawlucha a bit more power, which could be notable considering hawlucha's Attack stat, while solid, isn't anything near say Terrakion's.​


    As for Pokemon that could check trouble, Aegislash and Eviolite Doublade stand out as the best Hawlucha counters in existence. They resist Hawlucha's Acrobatics and unlike other Steel and Rock-type Pokemon they're immune to Hi Jump Kick, stopping Hawlucha from getting past them that way. From there Aegislash and Doublade could use Hawlucha as set up bait (although Encore gets in the way of this somewhat) or just outright kill it with Iron Head/pick it off with Shadow Sneak. So any team with Hawlucha would definitely want a way to deal with these two. What else stands out as a good potential Hawlucha check?

    EDIT: Late but because Flying Gem is currently unreleased, the above set is currently unusable, however, there is a potential way to still get the benefit from Unburden and a full power Acrobatics via the use of a power herb, although it costs another moveslot, set below.

    Set (open)
    Hawlucha @ Power Herb
    Ability: Unburden
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant or Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Acrobatics
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Sky Attack



    So what do you guys think of Hawlucha? Do you think it'll be a good choice in the X/Y Metagame? Any other sets/moves you think could work effectively on it? What could check or counter it iyo?​
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2014
  2. Coogrr

    Coogrr

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    I think flying press could actually be a good move on him, depending on the mechanics of the dual type moves it could get Dual STAB, but I don't know if they work that way.
  3. Jaroda

    Jaroda

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    Those stats are a bit underwhelming, but this thing can wreck with a Chesto-Rest set. With what is listen I'm thinking.

    Hawlucha@Chesto Berry
    Unburden
    EVs (Depending on its speed with Unburden it only needs enough to outrun, say, base 120 with scar but that depends on the meta. Focus on HP and SpD)
    ~ Bulk Up
    ~ Acrobatics
    ~ Rest
    ~ Flying Press/Fighting Move/Substitute

    This is sort of a reverse Conkeldurr but with better coverage. Bulk Up to get great offense and defensive levels, then Rest to heal off and activate both Acrobatics and Unburden. Roost is viable too but Rest can alleviate status. Getting a better understanding of this guy's base stats and move pool will allow for a finer tuned set. You could potentially also just opt for Acrobatics and brute force your way through a team with Substitute and Bulk Up. Flying fortunately has no immunities.

    This thing has awesome design I hope we find some utility.
    MrDexter, Jaguar360, hobreezy and 3 others like this.
  4. Kirbles

    Kirbles

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    I personally would run Hone claws because of Hi-Jump-Kick but thats just me being paranoid
    It could also abuse Unburden/Sash/Endeavor as some sort of lead, but that would have to depend on what else it gets in its movepool
  5. kokoloko

    kokoloko supersmooth
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    I'm not liking the way this guys turning out tbh. I have a feeling it's gonna be stuck as a low OU mon for a long long time because of how great it is on paper (I doubt it'll be able to actually compete in OU as high level threat tbh). :(

    That said, I'm thinking the best way to go about using it is probably what Molk posted. Maybe with Sub over Encore.
  6. TwoBit

    TwoBit

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    Flying Press has worse coverage than High Jump Kick and Acrobatics do separately. A flying shame, really.
  7. Kejmur

    Kejmur

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    I would also mention Choice Band set. It's one of those really rare Flying type which are neutral to SR. Choice Band also fixes his power issues and also has great speed to use it well. And he has even access to U-Turn, so sounds like a good scouter as well with good resistances/immunities to switch into (heck, it's even immune to paralysis like T-Wave with Limber :D). Also immunity to Spikes/Toxic Spikes is great news as well for Choice user. Also Flying/Fighting is great STAB combination to abuse, although I really hope this thing learns Brave Bird (not confirmed yet from what I know) and STAB High Jump Kick should hurt everything not resisting it with really high base power to back it up. On paper Choice Band user looks fine, especially if it gets Brave Bird.
  8. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    As noted by Molk, Aegislash is the bane of Hawlucha. It sucks for Hawlucha that Aegislash is a Ghost-type, so Magnezone / Dugtrio / Mega Gengar cannot trap it. I would consider adding SD Scizor with Pursuit to possibly take it out, but Scizor needs to time its Pursuit well - it wouldn't want to Pursuit on Aegislash's King Shield and end up with -2 Atk x_x.
  9. Cowtao

    Cowtao

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    Just saying it right now. Hawlucha vs Hitmonlee.

    But....To be honest. It just comes down to this. Hawlucha is faster and boasts slightly better defense, while Hitmonlee has the better Attack and typing. The typing of Fighting/Flying is a crippling effect to Hawlucha as it is now weak to Ice, Flying, Electric, Psychic, and now Rock type moves will take down Hawlucha with neutral hits. Hawlucha does have one thing that Hitmonlee would kill to have and that is Power Up Punch. With that you can have a 466 Damage Output from Hawlucha, something that Hitmonlee would kill to have. With the combination of Fighting Gem, Unburden, and a move set of Power Up Punch/Acrobatics/Roost/Hi Jump Kick Hawlucha becomes a deadly late game sweeper. However, this does come at the cost of being more vulnerable to Priority moves like Mach Punch or Ice Shard.

    I'm gonna mark down that Hawlucha is gonna be in UU. Maybe RU if it's too much for Hawlucha to handle.
    BlankZero likes this.
  10. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Here are some damage calcs against some physically bulky Pokemon that are currently OU using the current Attack stat (which is actually confirmed to be exact now from multiple people catching hawlucha and comparing stats iirc) to try and get a feel for Hawlucha's power. All damage calculations will be at +2 and assuming a Jolly nature, Calcs also include both Flying Gem Acrobatics and non Flying Gem Acrobatics.

    Damage Calcs (open)


    Vs Hippowdon

    +2 252 Atk Flying Gem Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 273-322 (65 - 76.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    +2 252 Atk Hawlucha Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 214-253 (50.95 - 60.23%) -- 89.06% chance to 2HKO

    +2 252 Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 183-216 (43.57 - 51.42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    Vs Skarmory

    +2 252 Atk Hawlucha Hi Jump Kick vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 190-225 (58.1 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Vs Forretress

    +2 252 Atk Hawlucha Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 190-225 (53.67 - 63.55%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    +2 252 Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 160-190 (45.19 - 53.67%) -- 1.95% chance to 2HKO

    +2 252 Atk Flying Gem Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 241-285 (68.07 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Vs Landorus-T

    +1 252 Atk Flying Gem Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 172 Def Landorus-T: 289-342 (75.85 - 89.76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    +1 252 Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics vs. 248 HP / 172 Def Landorus-T: 195-229 (51.18 - 60.1%) -- 89.06% chance to 2HKO


    So what do you think? does +2 Hawlucha's damage output look impressive, decent, or underwhelming?

    As for getting Brave Bird, that seems like it'll be a decent option on Hawlucha. At first it might seem like Acrobatics is better because of Unburden and the recoil Brave Bird causes, but having a powerful Flying-type STAB Outside of Acrobatics gives Hawlucha the ability to hold another item such as a Life Orb or Lum Berry, the former of which increases its damage output pretty significantly despite the recoil. Just take a look at how much a +2 Life Orb Hi Jump Kick does to hippowdon o_O.

    +2 252 Atk Life Orb Hawlucha Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 278-329 (66.19 - 78.33%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Thats a little more than even a Flying Gem Acrobatics!
    BlankZero likes this.
  11. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Bad news guys - it seems that Hawlucha can't even breed with anything that learns Brave Bird (its not in the Flying Group, which is what Talonflame is probably in, for some reason or the Field Group). It looks like it'll have to stick with Acrobatics.
  12. azureleaf17

    azureleaf17

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    Has it been confirmed that Ghost-types cannot be trapped AT ALL? I thought it only worked with Shadow Tag.
  13. Robert Alfons

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    Hawlucha learns Swords Dance, has higher speed and a great STAB combo, Hitmonlee outclasses it in no way. Also, flying type isn't disadvantageous at all, as it now gets an immunity to ground moves and a resistance to fighting moves (as well as a resistance to grass and a 4x resistance to bug, but that's minor), which more than makes up for these extra weaknesses.
  14. Mr Omgness

    Mr Omgness

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    I dont think it's that bad as it would probably rely on Unburden and Acrobatics even if it had Brave Bird in it's movepool, unless it's hidden ability is something that works well with Brave Bird (Reckless for example).

    For the Hawlucha v.Hitmonlee discussion you seem to forget the positive side of having 2 STABs. Neutrality to SR while being immune to Spikes is pretty good as well. The extra weaknesses are not that big a deal for a mon that isn't meant to take any hits anyway. With his ground immunity and Fighting resist alone he has enough switch opportunities to come in and setup.
  15. Kirbles

    Kirbles

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    Hawlucha gets Mold breaker as its hidden ability according to Serebii
    This means it can run a acrogem set with unburden or a band/scarf set with mold breaker
  16. Brammi

    Brammi

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    The biggest problem for it will be it's inability to break the solid defensive walls in the tier.

    It's got nothing to deal with the likes of Skarm or Hippo who will just set up in front of it or pHaze it out with their mega high stats.
  17. TheEvergreenChameleon

    TheEvergreenChameleon

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    Damage calcs posted earlier in this thread suggest otherwise. Hawlucha has a very comfortable 2HKO on both Hippo and Skarm after an SD. The real problem is Aegislash, which it really can't touch.

    I think we're underestimating Hawlucha, tbh. It's been pretty much ubiquitous in the teams I've encountered, and it can be a serious pain in the late-game.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
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  18. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    Yeah. So it can finally hit all those things that are immune to its STABs/common coverages thanks to their abilities. Wait a second...

    This may just be me, but Mold Breaker for it would seem to just apply to things like Fur Coat Furfrou. I can't think of another ability off the top of my head Hawlucha cares about at all. Other than stupid Sturdy.
  19. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Well a 2HKO isn't much when you are OHKOed back (in the case of Skarmory). His typing and Speed are awesome, but his power and bulk really lets it down. Not to mention that Aegislash will be a gigantic pain in the ass. I think it will be a solid UU Pokemon with some very situational uses in OU.
  20. Sgt.Moose

    Sgt.Moose

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    Does Mold Breaker ignore Static/Effect Spore/etc and Rough Sking/Iron barbs/Gooey? If so those are the other ones.
  21. Typhlito

    Typhlito One Spooky Dawg
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    sinc flying press is both flying and fighting, does it get double stab on it?
  22. Kirbles

    Kirbles

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    No it only gets fighting type STAB
  23. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    From what I've heard, all that's different is what it's strong and weak against.
  24. DDRMaster

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    They confirmed in the Battle Mechanics thread that Ghosts can now switch out of trapping moves, partial trapping moves (though they still take the damage), and any sort of trapping Ability.
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  25. Jaroda

    Jaroda

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    I think Unburden+Acrobatics+Flight Jewl will be standard. Sword Dance and Roost variants will be common. A natural end game sweeper that requires little setup. The existance of Aegislash does not make this mon UU by default. Plenty of OU mon have outright counters. Id still like to see how Bulk Up fares
    The Village Idiot likes this.

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