Hawluchange (Now playable!)

[MegaGallade]

Approved by and thanks to The Immortal !
Hawluchange

Hawluchange is a meta where every Pokemon gets a unique Flying Press, and this Flying Press is the same types of the user' types! For example;

• When Gallade uses this Flying Press, Flying Press will deal Psychic and Fighting type damage.
• When Aggron uses this Flying Press, Flying Press will deal Steel and Rock type damage.
• When Mega Aggron uses this Flying Press, Flying Press will deal pure Steel type damage.

For a full list of each unique Flying Press, go here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nI1FMTtITG3CgO7n1a0JQRBJBHA9KxbXqRXTsDendtM/edit?usp=sharing
For a more detailed version, go here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1K6P_m3XvTaHikgNsdI_4CoaVDIgbtflpZOOwM7JjBys/edit?usp=sharing (Big thanks to Mygavolt for making the typecharts!)

-Clauses:

• Standard OU banlist.
• OHKO, Evasion, Species, Sleep, Swagger, Moody, Endless Battle, and Baton Pass clauses are in effect.

Possible threats

None yet! Get suggesting!

-Notes:

• Special attackers get a disadvantage due to the fact Flying Press remains Physical.
• Pokemon who already get Flying Press (Hawlucha, Pikachu-Libre and Smeargle) will follow the rules of the meta. (Pikachu-Libre has Electric Flying Press, Smeargle has Normal Flying Press)
• Any more notabilities about this meta? Suggest some below!

Hawluchange is now playable here! --> russianpokecenter.psim.us

Thanks for reading and enjoy the meta!

 

[Mr155551]

Basically Physical and i guess mixed attackers will rule this meta say lucario terrakion and i guess mega swampert

 

[Snaquaza]

To be honest, it will usually be better to run normal STABs unless you don't get them. They are usually more powerful and Flying Press kinda ruins your coverage. I'd rather hit something Super Effective with one STAB and non-very Effective with another than hitting them neutrally with a weak STAB. It's better to use the normal STAB then. There's a reason Hawlucha rarely runs Flying Press. It's probably the best for Pokemon who don't get good STAB moves, but usually you prefer to hit stuff SE than neutrally, even if the types have good coverage.

So yeah, it sounds like a cool idea, but unless Flying Press gets a boost I don't think a lot of things will use it.

 

[Deathly ♛The King]

This seems like a cool meta. The pokemon that I see benefiting from this most are pokemon that lack usable stabs, such as landorus-t and his flying type. It is also helpful that landorus-t has nice coverage with this...

 

[Alfalfa]

So how would Adaptability + Dual STABs + Flying Press work? Is its base power only boosted by STAB + Adaptability, or is there more power by Adaptability boosting the power higher due to the move being affected by both STABs?

 

[Tarontos]

I like it talon flame sound's fun as a cleaner do to good dual typing even if it is a 4 times resist from rock.
Kyruem-b need i say more?
Mega luopony has perfect neutral coverage in one attack.

 

[Snaquaza]

I like it talon flame sound's fun as a cleaner do to good dual typing even if it is a 4 times resist from rock.
Kyruem-b need i say more?
Mega luopony has perfect neutral coverage in one attack.

Talonflame's primary typing is Fire, so I reckon the Flying Press would be Fire type, so while it would inflict partly Flying damage, it wouldn't get priority.

Also Brave Bird is probably still better, unless you really want the neutrality on Steel and the SE on Ice. It's quite some stronger and you don't need the extra damage on Bug and Grass. You always have Flare Blitz to nuke Steel types. If you use this though, I'd advice running WoW to punish Rock types. You'll probably hate Water, Dragon and Fire types though, which is probably not worth the tradeoff.

Mega Lop sounds cool though.

Honestly, the most buffed things in this metagame will be Pokemon that lack a good STAB move, any coverage, or want to run a 1 Attacking move set. BTW how does it work with immunities? I remember Ghost types are still immune to Flying Press, but not sure.

 

[Tarontos]

Also this means we can have max effectiveness of 16 times... wow(not that any oe runs things with those typings)

 

[MegaTias]

Mega Charizard X also has perfect neutral coverage in one attack.

EDIT: Correct me if I'm wrong, but Talonflame has now 16x effective on Breloom?

 

[Tarontos]

Mega charizard x does still have to deal with flash fire and fairies

 

[MegaGallade]

So how would Adaptability + Dual STABs + Flying Press work? Is its base power only boosted by STAB + Adaptability, or is there more power by Adaptability boosting the power higher due to the move being affected by both STABs?

Same way normal Flying Press works. Only one STAB boost.

I like it talon flame sound's fun as a cleaner do to good dual typing even if it is a 4 times resist from rock.

Seconding what Snaquaza said.

BTW how does it work with immunities? I remember Ghost types are still immune to Flying Press, but not sure.

Same as normal Flying Press. Trevenant's Flying Press would not affect Normal types. (Not that you'd run it)

 

[canno]

This is an interseting meta, but I don't see it changing much from what OU is right now, seeing as many mons won't use Flying Press simply because of its power / new typing not being radical.

Funnily enough, this might be the first meta where Kyu-B gets a physical Ice STAB and its not broken. Fairies would still be immune to its STABs, and Steel-types might as well be immune, especially Heatran with its 8x resist to Ice / Dragon Flying Press (Tundra Claw?). However this is still good for Kyu-B, as outside of its interactions with Steel, Fairy, and Dragon (which get completely destroyed) it's basically just an Ice STAB due to Dragon's general neutrality offensively.

Another mon that benefits is M-Aerodactyl. He now gets a contact Rock STAB, which is pretty cool. Steel's eat it up though since they at least always 2x resist in the case of Heatran and Skarm and usually 4x resist it. There's some other things, like Electric-types now resisting it and it hits Grass SE (It brutally destroys Bug-types not named Scizor - which has the only Steel typing hit neutrally by Aero's Flying Press), but I can't think of anything else notable.

 

[Ghoul King]

To be honest, it will usually be better to run normal STABs unless you don't get them. They are usually more powerful and Flying Press kinda ruins your coverage. I'd rather hit something Super Effective with one STAB and non-very Effective with another than hitting them neutrally with a weak STAB. It's better to use the normal STAB then. There's a reason Hawlucha rarely runs Flying Press. It's probably the best for Pokemon who don't get good STAB moves, but usually you prefer to hit stuff SE than neutrally, even if the types have good coverage.

So yeah, it sounds like a cool idea, but unless Flying Press gets a boost I don't think a lot of things will use it.

... um, Flying Press is shit because Flying+Fighting overlaps in a really stupid way where you're never better than "bad Fighting move" or "bad Flying move", and can be worse. (eg it's neutral against Bug, where Flying is super effective)

Whereas for instance Fire/Fighting Flying Press is, in fact, doubly super effective against pure Steel types.

MegaGallade what happens if a pure typed Pokemon uses this modified Flying Press?

The best Flying Presses are going to be the ones with overlapping effectives, particularly against types with representatives that can normally take the hit at super effective. There's also going to be cases where a given target is doubly vulnerable to a Flying Press where its typing is not doubly vulnerable to either type -for instance Psychic/Fighting Flying Press will murder Mega Lopunny with x4 effectiveness. Mega Medicham says hi. So does Mega Gallade, for that matter.

So for instance...

-Camerupt and Primal Groudon's Flying Press murders Steel types.

-Emboar, Infernape, and Blaziken all murder Steel types with Flying Press.

-Talonflame's (And Mega Charizard Y, and Ho-Oh, and...) Flying Press absolutely murders Grass and Bug types. (Let alone Grass/Bug types)

I'll cover more later, I don't have the time right now.

 

[Blumenwitz]

I'm sure Gyarados will appreciate having a Flying-type STAB move that doesn't take two turns to use.

 

[Kadabrium]

Mega Charizard X also has perfect neutral coverage in one attack.

EDIT: Correct me if I'm wrong, but Talonflame has now 16x effective on Breloom?

fire 2x, flying 4x =8x

 

[Mygavolt]

Also this means we can have max effectiveness of 16 times... wow(not that any oe runs things with those typings)

Actually, it's possible to go even higher because of Dry Skin Parasect. Flying does 4x and Fire does 8x, making a grand total of 32x damage. *checks Bulbapedia* Dang, it IS a mere 25% increase in weakness. Yeah, make that 20x.
(but nobody uses Parasect anyway, so that's trivial)


Random question: what about Pikachu-Libre? Does it stay with the original Flying Press, does it get its unique (Electric-type) Flying Press, or does it somehow get both?


On another note, I decided to make a type chart on the (currently existing) Flying Presses, which can be viewed here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nI1FMTtITG3CgO7n1a0JQRBJBHA9KxbXqRXTsDendtM/edit?usp=sharing

Things to note:

• The highest number of types weak to a Flying Press is 7. This number is achieved by: Dark/Ground, Fighting/Water, and Ghost/Ground.
• The only Flying Press that cannot inflict super-effective damage is (you guessed it) Normal-type.
• The most resisted Flying Press type is Grass/Dark with 10 resistances.
• The least resisted Flying Press type is Flying/Ground with only 1 immunity (Flying) and everything else either super-effective or neutral.
• The Flying Presses that can inflict 4x damage on the most types (i.e. 2) are: Dark/Ghost, Fighting/Fire, Fighting/Steel, Fire/Flying, Fire/Rock, Grass/Water, and Ground/Water.

 

[Ghoul King]

Actually, it's possible to go even higher because of Dry Skin Parasect. Flying does 4x and Fire does 8x, making a grand total of 32x damage.
(but nobody uses Parasect anyway, so that's trivial)

Dry Skin is only a 25% increase in damage taken from Fire moves. It doesn't double the damage taken. So Talonflame Flying Presses into Parasect for x20 damage, not x32.

• The highest number of types weak to a Flying Press is 7. This number is achieved by: Dark/Ground, Fighting/Water, and Ghost/Ground.
• The only Flying Press that cannot inflict super-effective damage is (you guessed it) Normal-type.
• The most resisted Flying Press type is Grass/Dark with 10 resistances.
• The least resisted Flying Press type is Flying/Ground with only 1 immunity (Flying) and everything else either super-effective or neutral.
• The Flying Presses that can inflict 4x damage on the most types (i.e. 2) are: Dark/Ghost, Fighting/Fire, Fighting/Steel, Fire/Flying, Fire/Rock, Grass/Water, and Ground/Water.

Well never mind me making my post "later".

Also Landorus-Therian is going to be a bitch-and-a-half apparently, and it gets Gravity. Yikes. Gliscor also has good offense, though it lacks Gravity. And I'm amused that one of the better combinations will come off Sableye/Spiritomb.

Meanwhile one of the worse combinations comes from Shiftry/Cacturne. Interesting.

 

[DinaIsha]

Since the Meta is based around Physical Attackers, I can see a lot of Physical Walls dominating the Meta.

Why not take a page out of Offensification and make it so that Special Attackers' Flying Press will be Special?

 

[CactusCacti]

Physical Rotom Frost for that Bolt Beam every move.

Eitherway Im gonna bet that skarmory is gonna see a lot of use in this meta

 

[MegaGallade]

MegaGallade what happens if a pure typed Pokemon uses this modified Flying Press?

• When Mega Aggron uses this Flying Press, Flying Press will deal pure Steel type damage.

Random question: what about Pikachu-Libre? Does it stay with the original Flying Press, does it get its unique (Electric-type) Flying Press, or does it somehow get both?

On another note, I decided to make a type chart on the (currently existing) Flying Presses, which can be viewed here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nI1FMTtITG3CgO7n1a0JQRBJBHA9KxbXqRXTsDendtM/edit?usp=sharing

Things to note:

• The highest number of types weak to a Flying Press is 7. This number is achieved by: Dark/Ground, Fighting/Water, and Ghost/Ground.
• The only Flying Press that cannot inflict super-effective damage is (you guessed it) Normal-type.
• The most resisted Flying Press type is Grass/Dark with 10 resistances.
• The least resisted Flying Press type is Flying/Ground with only 1 immunity (Flying) and everything else either super-effective or neutral.
• The Flying Presses that can inflict 4x damage on the most types (i.e. 2) are: Dark/Ghost, Fighting/Fire, Fighting/Steel, Fire/Flying, Fire/Rock, Grass/Water, and Ground/Water.

I'll be sure to add that typechart to the OP, thank you. :]
I'd say, to make it less complicated, Pikachu-Libre's Flying Press will be pure Electric.

Why not take a page out of Offensification and make it so that Special Attackers' Flying Press will be Special?

I'll see if more people are in favour of this.

 

[Phione]

If I bring a Leavanny in on a Talonflame's Flying Press, will it immediately combust?

But yeah, I don't think too many things will run Flying Press because it has such a low BP. Maybe if it were 100 or something, this could work, but I think that would make this a Pet Mod.

 

[Ghoul King]

80 BP is perfectly fine when you consider how many types and individual Pokemon either cap out at 80 BP or less. Aegislash, for instance, has 80 BP on Iron Head and 70 BP on Shadow Claw, and that's as high as its Physical STABs go.

I do agree a lot of things won't run Flying Press. The reason why, however, is because for a lot of Pokemon Flying Press will never put in any extra work over regular coverage. But there will still be Pokemon that run it to utterly destroy specific types/type combinations, and there will also be Pokemon that run it because they lack moves of one of those types (What Flying STAB for Landorus?), and there will be Pokemon for whom the type combination works out such that they might as well run it in place of having two separate STABs, expanding their coverage further.

I have no opinion on the possibility of a Special Flying Press.

 

[Mygavolt]

Status update: I had the idea to make an overkill version a more detailed version of the type chart that incorporates dual types into the defender set: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1K6P_m3XvTaHikgNsdI_4CoaVDIgbtflpZOOwM7JjBys/edit?usp=sharing

Findings (offensive):

• 
  The Flying Press that is super-effective against the most types is Ghost/Ground, which hits 54 different type combinations for super-effective damage.
• 
  The most resisted Flying Press is Bug/Grass, which is resisted by 74 different type combinations.
• 
  The Flying Press with the most immunities is Electric/Ground, which is immunified by 33 different type combinations.
  
• 
  The most unresisted Flying Press remains Flying/Ground, which hits neutral or higher on 115 different type combinations.
• 
  Of all the dual-type Flying Presses with no immunities, Fairy/Rock is the most unresisted, hitting 103 different type combinations for neutral or higher.

More findings (defensive):

• 
  Ice/Rock is the typing with the most weaknesses: 64.
  
• 
  Flying/Ghost is the typing with the most immunities: 36.
  
• 
  Fairy/Steel is the typing with the highest sum of resistances and immunities: 96.

Additionally, I support the idea of a special Flying Press. It may seem illogical, but I think it would be an interesting addition to the meta, not to mention it would be somewhat unfair for special attackers to miss out on an extra move.

I'm also going to suggest an idea of my own: what if every Pokémon had to have Flying Press on its moveset as opposed to having the choice? This also could make the meta more interesting in that it gives the gimmick more of an impact on the metagame (because, as mentioned, few Pokémon are going to want to run their Flying Presses otherwise).

 

[DinaIsha]

Because Chansey would totally want to run Flying Press.

 

[Ghoul King]

Not a fan of forcing Pokemon to run Flying Press/Special Flying Press, because it constricts teambuilding and especially hurts stallmons.

But great analytical work! I'm particularly pleased to learn that Golurk has a notably good Flying Press by one metric -I love having an excuse to use Golurk.