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Haxorus (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Iconic, Apr 22, 2011.

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  1. Iconic

    Iconic
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    [​IMG]

    mandatory BS HAX

    [Overview]

    <p>Haxorus's name isn't the only cool thing about him. Sporting a massive Base 147 Attack, Haxorus has the ability to OHKO or 2HKO nearly everything the game, even without entry hazard support. In addition, access to amazing moves like Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, and a STAB Outrage makes him both devastating and unpredictable. Unfortunately, he has meager defenses and a disappointing Speed stat, which, when coupled with his shallow attacking movepool, can sometimes cause him to be brushed aside in favor of his Dragon-type brethren, namely Salamence and Dragonite. Despite these shortcomings, Haxorus's sheer power often merits him a spot on a team, as very little can safely switch into this behemoth.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Outrage
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Brick Break
    move 4: Dragon Claw / Dual Chop
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Mold Breaker
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Haxorus and Choice Band go together like peanut butter and jelly, as it boosts Haxorus's already amazing Attack stat to an absurd 648. There are very few Pokemon that can claim to counter Choice Band Haxorus, as virtually everything gets at least 2HKOed by an appropriate attack. Even the bulkiest physical walls such as Hippowdon will be unable to keep up with Haxorus's onslaught, and since many Steel-types are 2HKOed by him as well, Haxorus is as close to "uncounterable" as they come.</p>

    <p>Earthquake complements Outrage well by nailing Steel-types, and thanks to Mold Breaker, Levitate users such as Bronzong, Gengar, Rotom-W, Latios, and Latias must think twice about switching in. Brick Break is almost exclusively for Ferrothorn, who doesn't take much damage from any of Haxorus's other moves, while Dragon Claw is a nice choice to hit something hard without being locked into Outrage. The listed EVs allow Haxorus to maximize his Attack while outpacing Dragonite, Heatran, and Rotom-W. The additional EVs are thrown into HP to slightly cushion oncoming attacks.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>In order to appreciate the sheer power of Choice Band Haxorus's Outrage, here are some damage calculations against some of the premier physical walls and Steel-types that resist it.</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>Outrage vs. 252/184+ Gliscor: 64.69% - 76.27%</li>
    <li>Outrage vs. 252/252+ Hippowdon: 54.29% - 63.81%</li>
    <li>Outrage vs. 248/252+ Vaporeon: 75.16% - 88.77%</li>
    <li>Outrage vs. 4/0 Excadrill: 73.76% - 87.02%</li>
    <li>Outrage vs. 252/0 Scizor: 51.45% - 60.47%</li>
    <li>Outrage vs. 252/48+ Ferrothorn: 34.94% - 40.91%</li>
    <li>Outrage vs. 252/0 Jirachi: 43.81% - 51.49%</li>
    <li>Outrage vs. 0/0 Heatran: 52.01% - 61.30%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>Haxorus's movepool is sparse, but Dual Chop and Rock Slide are worth considering over Dragon Claw. Dual Chop can be used to break opposing Substitutes, but its accuracy can be off-putting. Rock Slide lets Haxorus hit Gyarados and Zapdos without locking himself into Outrage, but they are still hit hard by Dragon Claw, and Rock Slide can give Steel-types free switches. Another option that should be considered is Rivalry. Although Mold Breaker is great when used with Earthquake, Rivalry can be used for an extra boost on a simulator because most Pokemon are male by default. The 25% increase in power is very significant considering Haxorus's amazing Attack. For example, with one layer of Spikes, Outrage will usually 2HKO the standard Relaxed Ferrothorn with the help of Rivalry.</p>

    <p>Although Haxorus is going to be hitting everything hard with Outrage, it still has troubles with the bane of most physical attackers: Skarmory. Skarmory can come in on any of Haxorus's attacks and proceed to Roost off the damage or set up Spikes thanks to its amazing Defense. Other than Skarmory, there aren't really any other true Haxorus counters. Bronzong, Ferrothorn, and defensive Jirachi are decent checks, but although they can usually take two Outrages, they will fall to a well-predicted Earthquake. Magnezone is one of the best partners for Haxorus because it can easily trap and kill most Steel-types with Magnet Pull. It also has solid synergy with Haxorus, since it can take Ice- and Dragon-type attacks aimed at the giant salamander. Haxorus is prone to being revenge killed by the likes of Mamoswine, Weavile, and Scizor thanks to their powerful priority attacks. A Scizor of your own can be helpful in this situation to take Ice Shards and Bullet Punches aimed at Haxorus. You also might want to consider pairing Haxorus with Pokemon that can take advantage of Haxorus's ability to KO most Steel-types and physical walls. Pokemon like Latios will absolutely love having Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Heatran out of the picture so it can spam Draco Meteors with little to fear, while Excadrill will sweep most teams once Haxorus has KOed Gliscor.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Brick Break / Taunt
    item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
    ability: Mold Breaker
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Haxorus is by no means slow, but his awkward Base 97 Speed means he'll always be outpaced by common Pokemon like Salamence, Latios, Terrakion, and Virizion. As such, Haxorus can make great use of Dragon Dance to boost his already sky-high Attack along with his mediocre Speed in order to outpace and KO faster threats that he would otherwise lose against. Although finding an opportunity to setup may be difficult for a fragile Pokemon like Haxorus, the benefits can be quite substantial, as the combination of speed and power make Haxorus incredibly hard to stop.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>After a single Dragon Dance, Haxorus reaches a terrifying 648 Attack and 427 Speed, enough to outpace every common Pokemon without a Choice Scarf, bar Deoxys-S. With a Dragon Dance under his belt and a boost from Life Orb, Outrage will 2HKO virtually everything in the game. Earthquake will nail all other Steel-types besides Skarmory, as even Bronzong isn't safe thanks to Mold Breaker. Brick Break is mostly for the ubiquitous Ferrothorn, who can survive an Earthquake and nail Haxorus with a powerful Gyro Ball. Although the ability to hit Ferrothorn is extremely important, Taunt is a fine choice in its place to prevent phazing and status moves from hitting Haxorus. Life Orb is the ideal item for this set for the additional power boost, but Lum Berry is a great alternative that allows Haxorus to avoid being statused, or to immediately snap out of his confusion after using Outrage.</p>

    <p>Haxorus's teammates should focus on either eliminating his counters or creating an opportunity for him to set up a Dragon Dance. Magnezone deserves an obvious mention for its ability to turn Skarmory into fried chicken through the use of Magnet Pull and Thunderbolt. Choice Scarf Rotom-W is also an excellent partner because it has little to fear from Skarmory, Bronzong, and most other Haxorus counters. Rotom-W can also use Trick to cripple an incoming Pokemon, which will subsequently give Haxorus a chance to use Dragon Dance as the Tricked Pokemon is forced to switch out. Haxorus is extremely susceptible to revenge killing by priority users like Mamoswine, Weavile, and Scizor, all of which Rotom-W can check decently as well. A Skarmory of your own can add some more insurance since most priority users are physically inclined, while Haxorus will appreciate Skarmory's ability to set up Spikes. Pokemon that can set up dual screens will be immensely useful for Haxorus due to his paper-thin defenses. Deoxys-S, Latios, and Espeon are all very good choices thanks to their great Speed, and with the proper investment, they still possess the bulk to set up dual screens more than once. Wobbuffet support is worth considering for Haxorus because Wobbuffet can eliminate Choice Scarf Pokemon with either Counter or Mirror Coat, and it can also Encore a support move like Stealth Rock to give Haxorus a free switch in to use Dragon Dance.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Brick Break / Taunt
    item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
    ability: Mold Breaker
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Swords Dance Haxorus is simple: get in on something that will either switch out or can't hurt you, use Swords Dance once, and sweep. Although this is a little bit harder than it sounds due to Haxorus's awful defenses, he can devastate teams with the proper team support. The three listed attacks give you perfect coverage outside of Shedinja, who is promptly killed thanks to Mold Breaker anyways. After a Swords Dance, every single Pokemon in the game is at least 2HKOed by Outrage. Those that aren't taken out in one Outrage will be hesitant to take one of Haxorus's coverage attacks, as even Ferrothtorn is OHKOed by a +2 Brick Break.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>As always, there are several options to consider. Haxorus can make great use of Taunt in place of Brick Break to prevent Skarmory from using Whirlwind, however he can still damage Haxorus badly with Brave Bird. If the recoil from Life Orb turns you off, a Lum Berry is an excellent alternative to escape bothersome status or to prevent confusion once after using Outrage. An Adamant nature is generally used to maximize Haxorus's offensive prowess, but a Jolly nature with a spread of 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spe is an option to get the jump on all Base 95 Speed Pokemon since this Haxorus has no way of boosting his Speed. Finally, Rivalry is worth considering as an ability, although Haxorus already has a ton of firepower between Swords Dance and Life Orb, and Mold Breaker is extremely useful for hitting Pokemon with the Levitate ability.</p>

    <p>Absolutely nothing can take an attack from Haxorus after a Sword Dance, as even Skarmory is 2HKOed by Outrage. However, Haxorus is still very prone to being revenge killed by Pokemon that are faster than him. Latios, Latias, Salamence, and Terrakion can come in on a Swords Dance, outpace Haxorus, and OHKO him with an appropriate attack. Wobbuffet can trap the aforementioned Pokemon and KO them or Encore them as they try to set up, giving Haxorus a free chance to come in. Magnezone makes for a good partner as usual, since it can trap and OHKO Skarmory, while also clearing away other troublesome Steel-types. Haxorus behind dual screens can be extremely deadly, so it would be wise to pair him with Pokemon that can set up Reflect and Light Screen. Fast dual screens users like Latios and Espeon can keep the momentum in your favor, while sturdier choices like Bronzong are also worth considering for their ability to set up screens multiple times.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Outrage
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Brick Break
    move 4: Dragon Claw / Dual Chop
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Mold Breaker
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Scarf makes Haxorus an effective revenge killer, and distinguishes himself from other Dragon-types with his unmatched Attack stat and his ability to OHKO Dragonite through Multiscale. Even without a boost, Outrage hits like a truck, and it lets Haxorus take out speedy threats or clean up late-game. Earthquake is probably the only other move that will get any use, hitting grounded Steel-types for at least neutral damage. Levitate users such as Bronzong, Latios, Latias, and Gengar don't stand much of a chance either due to Mold Breaker. Dragon Claw is more of a safety move to scout for Haxorus's counters, but Dual Chop is an option to break through Substitutes. Brick Break is mainly for Ferrothorn, as it doesn't take much damage from Haxorus's other attacks and can use the giant lizard as set-up fodder. The EVs let Haxorus outpace +1 Dragonite, +1 Gyarados, Choice Scarf Heatran, and Choice Scarf Rotom-W, while still maintaining his trademark offensive prowess with an Adamant nature.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Bulky Steel-types are the biggest issues for Haxorus because they resist his STAB Dragon-type attacks, and some Steels like Skarmory don't even take much from Haxorus's coverage moves. Magnezone can eliminate the likes of Skarmory and Ferrothorn thanks to Magnet Pull, making it easier for Haxorus to unleash his powerful Outrages. Fire-types like Heatran are good partners for Haxorus as well since they have little to fear from Steel-types. Although Choice Scarf makes Haxorus faster than just about everything, his poor defences mean that he's extremely susceptible to priority moves. Mamoswine and Weavile are particularly threatening because their Ice Shards are super effective against Haxorus, while Scizor will hit him hard with Bullet Punch. Again, Heatran is a good Pokemon to pair Haxorus with because it resists these attacks, while a Scizor of your own can be a good teammate as well. Choice Band Scizor in particular can take out Ferrothorn with Superpower, and Superpower will make Skarmory think twice before switching in.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Haxorus's movepool is fairly limited, and most viable options have already been covered. Substitute can be useful for the Dragon Dance or Swords Dance sets over a coverage move to ease prediction and block status. Dragon Tail is a good move in general, but its negative priority coupled with Haxorus's poor defences makes it a relatively poor choice. Other than that, there aren't many other useful moves for Haxorus to take advantage of.</p>

    <p>More often than not, the biggest choice to make when using Haxorus is his ability. Mold Breaker is very useful when used with Earthquake because it lets Haxorus hit Pokemon with the Levitate ability, including Bronzong, Latios, Latias, Gengar, and Rotom-W. Rivalry is a much riskier option than Mold Breaker, but it can nab Haxorus a boost for his attacks since simulator Pokemon are male by default. Mold Breaker is generally the superior choice due to its reliability and usefulness, but that shouldn't discourage people from considering Rivalry.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The list of Pokemon that can switch into Haxorus safely is unfortunately (or fortunately!) quite sparse due to his ridiculous Attack and powerful STAB. Skarmory is as close to a counter as they come, as it can come in on most Outrages and Roost off the damage. A +2 Life Orb Outrage has the potential to 2HKO with Stealth Rock, but Skarmory is usually a safe bet for other attacks. Other Steel-types like Scizor, Ferrothorn, Jirachi, and Forretress are also fine choices to take Haxorus's Outrages, although they all lack Skarmory's combination of stellar Defense and reliable recovery. Revenge killing Haxorus with a faster Pokemon is often the safest way to take him out. In particular, Flying-types like Thundurus and Tornadus can come in unharmed if Haxorus is lured into using Earthquake, and OHKO back with an appropriate attack. There are numerous fast and strong Pokemon like Latios, Salamence, and Terrakion that can reliably revenge kill Haxorus assuming they avoid a super effective attack. Strong priority moves like Bullet Punch and Ice Shard can damage Haxorus quite badly as well. Mamoswine and Weavile get special mentions because Haxorus is weak to their STAB priority Ice Shard, while Scizor is another fine choice because it resists Haxorus's STAB Outrage.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Haxorus's Dream World ability is Unnerve, which is always an inferior choice compared to Mold Breaker or Rivalry.</p>
  2. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    Dragon dance might have more use then swords dance.

    HP is always first in the ev spreads.

    Jolly should be the preferred nature on all sets, unless there is some signifigant KO that adamant is needed for, as with Adamant, your speed drops down to the equvilant of base 84 speed.

    The only set which adamant should be the main option is the scarf set, as choice scarf, even with adamant, gives you a speed thats faster then even base 130s. Infact if you want to get real picky, with adamant and 136 speed, you outspeed base 130s.
  3. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    i would slash dual chop with dragon claw in the choice set because there is no plausible reason for 3 dragon moves, and they have effectively the same base power but dual chop breaks subs/sashes as well as having less accurracy. and i would actually also put dual chop as the first slash over dragon claw because it can sub/sash break. gorebliss and deoxy-s who want to shell break or hazards get stopped because of it.
  4. jrrrrrrr

    jrrrrrrr wubwubwub
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    From my experience it doesn't but if QC thinks so then I'll change the order of the sets. I don't think that's too important right now.
    ok
    The only OU threats between 84 and 97 Speed are Roserade, Gliscor, Lucario, Heracross, Suicune, and Excadrill. None of those pokemon are even remotely used, let alone at max Speed (save Dory who's always in sand), while Adamant gives you 39 extra points of Attack. I can't think of anything off the bat that it gets OHKOs for (because I havent had time to run dozens of calcs) but the Speed is usually worthless.
    I will end up tweaking the EVs for the Choice Scarf set, you're right that it doesn't need all 252 Speed EVs.
    I was hesitant to put Dual Chop there at all, but you're right that it should be slashed with DClaw if it's there.
  5. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    Dual Chop should probably be slashed with Dragon Claw if anything on the Choice set. Having three Dragon moves is terribly redundant and Dragon Claw + Dual Chop have the same effective BP anyway.

    Salac Berry is currently illegal due to the lack of ways to transfer it into the game.

    Lum Berry should probably be an option on the SD + DD sets. It stops status attempts and can potentially let you grab an extra boost, particularly useful for the DD set.

    Weavile and Mamoswine need to be mentioned as checks. Although they probably can't OHKO with Ice Shard, it'll still do a lot of damage.
  6. Snunch

    Snunch
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    You should remove all rivalry slashes, mold breaker is just that much better. Also agreeing with premboy95 about dual chop. It's surprisingly effective and should definitely be slashed in the third moveslot of choice-orus.
  7. jrrrrrrr

    jrrrrrrr wubwubwub
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    Done

    Ok. I didn't know this because playing in-game is terrible IMO

    It also helps with Outrage confusion, so I'll add it.

    ok. I mentioned "strong priority attacks" but I think they deserve special mention.

    I don't think it's so much better that Rivalry should be ignored. Especially on the simulator where using Rivalry is basically a free Life Orb.
  8. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
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    Actually, Jolly helps Hydreigon to outspeed Scarf Hydreigon which can make mincemeat of choice-orus with STAB Dragon Pulse / Draco Meteor. Choice-Hydreigon also commonly runs Modest. You might want to mention this.
  9. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
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    Cool analysis man, however I don't think Scizor should be put down as a defensive counter as +1 Outrage does over half (around 60%), I would go about saying it can easily revenge kill it as well as being able to a boosted Outrage or two.

    Dual screens also allow Haxorus to set up with greater ease as it lacks the 4x weakness that its other Dragon-types have. Espeon and Deoxys are good example of these Pokemon.

    Also DD Set should have a Lum Berry slash at least (as a secondary option) as you almost always get Ferrothorn paralyse you as you are about to attack it for the 2HKO with boosted Dragon Dance. It also allows it to hit 2 full stretches of Outrage provided Lum Berry isn't used before it gets confused.

    Nice analysis otherwise bro.

    @Premboy: Jrrrrr is using Mold Breaker only and I doubt the gender matters as not only Female Pokemon will use Attract.
  10. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    well i believe that the analysis's should be written for ingame as well where gender is random unless they are breeding. also some people on the simulator, like me, change all my pokes to females for reasons like those (once i got owned because someone used attract.... it was kinda sad) and u would not want to risk your hax losing .33 or .5 (i dont know which one it is) of it's atk. also its very fun to watch people bring bronzong in to wall haxorus just to be eqed to death xD

    while this is true i think the added power for hax is better, because by using jolly, you MIGHT be able to kill a sazandora (only assuming its modest), but then you lose a lot of power and your still owned by almost every other dragon.

    also i think it should mentioned that adamant cb Hax has only 2 points less attack than choice band azumarill which i think is a big statement because of how azu has huge power

    @somalia: i was giving justification about removing the rivalry slash. also on simulator i dont think anyone would use attract on a male pokemon because of how the default is male so it would fail most of the time
  11. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    Also Toxicroak, Cresselia, and Nidoking. I still find some of those pokemon worth while to outspeed, but yeah I see your arguement, both are valid.

    At what point do you think the speed is worthwhile though? At 84 speed your only speed tieing skuntank.

    At 81 Speed you have Gyrados and Milotic
    At 80 Speed you have Venusaur, Dragonite, Mandilbuzz, Chandelure, Togekiss, and Mamoswine

    I imagine 81 or 80 speed then would be the best benchmark not to go below. So either 220 evs in speed (80) or 232 (81), for adamant.
  12. supermarth64

    supermarth64 Here I stand in the light of day
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    Backing up the removal of Rivalry as a slash. Many good players know to change their Pokemon to females just so they won't be vulnerable to male Pokemon using Attract and Rivalry. I wouldn't personally want to risk that chance of the opposing Pokemon being female and losing out a huge chunk of Haxorus's power. Besides, it's not like he NEEDS that much more power anyway.
  13. breh

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    thirding or fourthing removal of Rivalry; far too unreliable ingame. The only thing it'll ever be useful against is steel-types (most of which it 2HKOes either way); every other pokemon it doesn't need rivalry to OHKO.

    remove metion of lolbulldoze entirely, please.
  14. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
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    that's really not true at all. no one uses attract and the only "okay" mon that could use rivalry is haxorus. the concern for changing from male to female is so irrelevant that people just don't do it. ever. i'd still recommend taking it out as a slash just because mold breaker is so much better. rivalry is really additional comments/other options material compared to it.
  15. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Oh, you're doing this. Aw, okay, that's fine.

    Anyways, if this isn't too much trouble, I'd like to recommend a general Dancing set, which is very unique to Haxorus, besides Taunt.

    name: Boosting
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Swords Dance
    move 3: Outrage / Dragon Claw
    move 4: Earthquake
    item: Lum Berry
    ability: Mold Breaker
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    Haxorus has a trait that differentiates him from most other competitors: the ability to use both Dragon Dance and Swords Dance. As can be seen, Swords Dance and Dragon Dance each have a distinct function: while Swords Dance is used to rip apart more defensively-oriented teams, Dragon Dances greatly weakens offensively-oriented ones because of a boost in Speed, making it hard to revenge kill.

    Haxorus can be able to function as both with both moves on the set, provided by two general coverage moves. While Haxorus can Dragon Dance in front of offensive teams, seen by Team Preview, it can Swords Dance in front of stall of defensive teams, also seen by Team Preview. Given the opportunity (which really isn't that hard, I find), Haxorus can be able to use both boosting moves in two turns. Lum Berry enables Haxorus this opportunity, as many will attempt to status Haxorus after a turn of set up.

    Although Haxorus does lose a support move (Dragon Tail / Taunt) in favor of a boosting move, this set is essentially a general boosting set, being able to set up in a wider variety of teams. I've personally tested it out, and it was surprisingly effective. I think this is worthy of consideration.

    Also, as for Rivalry, it has its own good points and bad points. Like jrrrrrrr said, on a simulator with predominantly male Pokemon, it's basically a free boost. When writing the analysis, please explain the uses of each ability and why Mold Breaker is presumably better than Rivalry.
  16. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    also im thinking that overall (and the sword dance set specifically) you shouldn't think of haxorus as a sweeper, but as a wall breaker with its massive attack and overall trolly speed it got. it wont sweep very well because it is too slow, but its sheer force will allow it to kill a lot of things.

    Ononokusu@Life Orb (252 EVs, +Nature, +2) Outrage vs Skarmory@Leftovers (252/240 EVs, +Nature): 52 ~ 61.6% (174 ~ 206 HP).
    Ononokusu@Life Orb (252 EVs, +Nature, +2) Outrage vs Nattorei@Leftovers (252/48 EVs, +Nature): 60.2 ~ 71% (212 ~ 250 HP)
    Ononokusu@Life Orb (252 EVs, +Nature, +2) Outrage vs Bronzong@Leftovers (252/80 EVs, Neutral Nature): 74.2 ~ 87.5% (251 ~ 296 HP)
    Ononokusu@Life Orb (252 EVs, +Nature, +2) Outrage vs Forretress@Leftovers (252/144 EVs, +Nature): 52.8 ~ 62.4% (187 ~ 221 HP)

    +2 hax is a monster wall breaker, 2hkoing practically every steel type capable of walling him even through leftovers (well in skarm/forre case you would need rocks). bronzong really shouldnt be coming in on swords dance hax because of earthquake but i thought i should calc that anyway

    for mold breaker, mention how it ignores quagsires unaware, dnites multiscale, and even ferro's iron thorns which help it immensly imo.

    and i approve of greed's set it seems like it could work i think im going to try it and post results later.
  17. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Okay, so QC has come to the following conclusions:

    1: Deslash Rivalry and move it to OO. Mold Breaker is significantly better for dealing with stuff like Bronzong as well as letting you use Earthquake against Gengar and weakened Lati@s instead of locking you into outrage.

    2: Set order should be: CB -> DD -> SD -> Scarf. CB is the most effective due to its ability to open up walls and instant pressure, then DD for its sweeping, then SD for its setup wallbreaking. Scarf is "good" but it's a bit too slow to actually be really effective.

    3: Deslash Rock Slide on choice sets, as it is almost never a "better option" than just using a STAB. You can put it in OO, but it's not good enough to get a slash.

    4: Change the CB EVs to 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe Adamant. That lets it outspeed Modest Rotom-A and gives it a fair bit more bulk.

    You'll get stamped after implementing these changes.
  18. jrrrrrrr

    jrrrrrrr wubwubwub
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    I added changes #1 and #3.

    #2: I changed the set order but I need to make a separate Scarf set. They're the exact same moveset, comments and almost identical spreads, the counters are just slightly different.

    #4: I don't like that EV spread at all. First off, it ties Rotom-A and doesn't beat it. I did change the original spread though, to 252 Atk/220 Speed/36 HP because that lets it outspeed Dragonite and Heatran (as well as Rotom-A). I was considering using 232 Speed EVs on the CB set to beat Gyarados but at that point you might as well max it out to tie other Haxorus. The HP doesn't really matter, that 14 HP difference isn't nearly as valuable as beating those two pokemon, especially when your defenses are so bad anyways. Unless you can think of any specific attacks the tiny boost in HP will guarantee survival from.
  19. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    Mold Breaker handily beats Wonder Guard, so there you go!
  20. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
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    I'd honestly just max CB Haxorus' speed. The HP EVs don't really do anything for him, and I'd much rather at least tie with other Haxorus, and outspeed all those other Pokemon mentioned. Just a question: Mold Breaker ignores Multiscale and Sturdy, right? Might want to mention that, since a lot of people just think it negates Levitate.
  21. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Yes, Mold Breaker disregards all abilities in battle. Also, if it isn't any trouble, I would mention a Jolly nature with Maximum Attack and Speed on Choice-urus (Or better yet, Choice Band). Haxorus' Speed really isn't that bad, and a Jolly nature allows Haxorus to destroy nearly anything that's slower than it, which is even harder with maximum 97 Speed. Choice Band HAxorus can totally run this spread and still hit hard with boosted Outrages.
  22. Zystral

    Zystral めんどくさい、な~
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    I said I'd post in here, and here I am.

    First of all, SDS, 164 Spe Adamant puts Haxorus at 271 Speed. 252 Modest Rotom-A is also 271 Speed. You tie. You also lose to Jolly 252 Dragonite. You need at least 220 to beat it.

    Secondly, here are some damage calcs. First, against 92/0 Hax, then 32/0 hax, then 4/0 Hax. you tell me the difference.

    92/0/0 Adamant Haxorus (open)


    vs. 252 Adamant Choice Band Donphan Ice Shard : 46.8% - 55.7%
    vs. 252 Jolly Life Orb Gliscor Earthquake : 59.2% - 70.3%
    vs. 252 Timid Leftovers Gengar Shadow Ball : 56% - 65.8%
    vs. 252 Adamant Life Orb Gyarados Earthquake : 52.2% - 61.7%
    vs. 252 Naive Choice Scarf Heatran Dragon Pulse : 83.5% - 98.7%
    vs. 252 Adamant Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch : 56% - 65.8%
    vs. 252 Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake : 75.3% - 89.2%
    vs. 252 Life Orb Landorus Earthquake : 71.5% - 84.5%
    vs. 252 Life Orb Reuniclus Psychic : 78.8% - 93%
    vs. 252 Life Orb Chandelure Shadow Ball : 78.2% - 92.4%
    vs. 252 Life Orb Conkeldurr Mach Punch : 31.3% - 37%
    vs. 252 Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat : 87.7% - 103.5%


    32/0/0 Adamant Haxorus (open)


    vs. 252 Adamant Choice Band Donphan Ice Shard : 49.2% - 58.5%
    vs. 252 Jolly Life Orb Gliscor Earthquake : 62.1% - 73.8%
    vs. 252 Timid Leftovers Gengar Shadow Ball : 58.8% - 69.1%
    vs. 252 Adamant Life Orb Gyarados Earthquake : 54.8% - 64.8%
    vs. 252 Naive Choice Scarf Heatran Dragon Pulse : 87.7% - 103.7%
    vs. 252 Adamant Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch : 58.8% - 69.1%
    vs. 252 Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake : 79.1% - 93.7%
    vs. 252 Life Orb Landorus Earthquake : 75.1% - 88.7%
    vs. 252 Life Orb Reuniclus Psychic : 82.7% - 97.7%
    vs. 252 Life Orb Chandelure Shadow Ball : 82.1% - 97%
    vs. 252 Life Orb Conkeldurr Mach Punch : 32.9% - 38.9%
    vs. 252 Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat : 92% - 108.6%


    4/0/0 Adamant Haxorus (open)


    vs. 252 Adamant Choice Band Donphan Ice Shard : 50.3% - 59.9%
    vs. 252 Jolly Life Orb Gliscor Earthquake : 63.6% - 75.5%
    vs. 252 Timid Leftovers Gengar Shadow Ball : 60.2% - 70.7%
    vs. 252 Adamant Life Orb Gyarados Earthquake : 56.1% - 66.3%
    vs. 252 Naive Choice Scarf Heatran Dragon Pulse : 89.8% - 106.1%
    vs. 252 Adamant Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch : 60.2% - 70.7%
    vs. 252 Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake : 81% - 95.9%
    vs. 252 Life Orb Landorus Earthquake : 76.9% - 90.8%
    vs. 252 Life Orb Reuniclus Psychic : 84.7% - 100%
    vs. 252 Life Orb Chandelure Shadow Ball : 84% - 99.3%
    vs. 252 Life Orb Conkeldurr Mach Punch : 33.7% - 39.8%
    vs. 252 Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat : 94.2% - 111.2%


    First of all, if we assume there are no Rocks in play, then the only difference going from 92 HP to 32 HP makes is that Heatran Dragon Pulse has a chance to KO. And if we invest 220 Speed, we outspeed it and can EQ anyway, so it's not a worry. Going from 32 to 4 is a bad idea since Reuniclus gets the KO chance, and a lot of things start breaching the 90% mark, which turns Haxorus into a KO with Stealth Rock, so no, it's not worth tieing with other Haxorus when you will lose to many other things in the process.
  23. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Wouldn't it be 36 HP?

    Anyway, 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe looks fantastic for both Scarf and Band.

    Split up the sets with that as the EV spread. One of the major reasons to split them is that they have different purposes. Another is that they are the "best" and "worst" sets, and combining them into a single set kinda oversells the value of Scarf.

    Implement these changes and you'll get the stamp.
  24. Zystral

    Zystral めんどくさい、な~
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    Actually, 32 EVs = 301 HP, a Life Orb Number. You could throw those 4 EVs aywhere else, put simply.

    One thing to notice is that 220 = 285 Speed, but 252 Jolly Gyara hits 287. Is it worth plucking 12 EVs from Atk to get the jump on Gyara pre-boost? I suppose you can't do much to it outside of unboosted STAB Outrage.

    If not, then 32 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 220 Spe seems pretty good.
  25. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    I was always under the impression that Life Orb numbers were HP stats that ended in 9... Please for the love of everything correct me if I'm wrong, though, so I don't have to go around screwing with my HP stats to get those 9's when I could have done the 1's instead...
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