1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Haxorus (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by R.B.G., Dec 16, 2010.

  1. R.B.G.

    R.B.G.

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    119
    [​IMG]
    Haxorus

    QC 3/3 - (Iconic)(Fireburn)(Bad Ass)
    GP - To be completed


    NOTES:

    • Overview pending rewrite
      Choice Scarf set pending rewrite
      Teammates and Counters to be rewritten w/detail




    [Overview]
    <p>"To kill, or to overkill?" - that is the question. This is what GameFreak was probably thinking when they first came up with the idea for this thing. With an aesthetically pleasing sprite and a simply epic base Attack stat of 147, there's seemingly no reason why, at first glance, that someone wouldn't put this on their team. This is only further augmented by the fact that Haxorus has the strongest Outrage since Rayquaza. However, the common saying goes, that not all that glitters is gold, and just like Haxorus' plates, this is true.<p>

    <p>Despite its massive attack stat and pure-Dragon typing, along with taking neutral damage to Stealth Rock, a problem which has limited the potential of powerhouses such as Salamence in the past, Haxorus is a bit of an anomaly. When one considers its relative frailty, shallow movepool, and general lack of options, Haxorus doesn't seem as great. Like with all other powerhouses, Haxorus does have its drawbacks, but that shouldn't deplete from its standout traits. Yes, even when compared to its fellow draconic brethren, Haxorus could still be seen as a giant among drakes.</p>

    [SET]

    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Dragon Claw/Double Chop
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Outrage
    move 4: Brick Break / Rock Slide
    item: Choice Band
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    Nature: Adamant / Jolly
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe












    Set Comments:

    <p>With a Choice Band, Haxorus' massive base 147 attack stat is augmented to sky-high levels, giving it the ability to tear through more or less anything with a ridiculous Outrage or super-effective Earthquake. Dragon Claw is the crux of this set. It allows Haxorus to use a reliable STAB move with no drawbacks, unlike Outrage, which will lock it in. Double Chop can also be used since you gain the nifty ability to break Pokemon using the move Substitute. Earthquake is all but must-have, taking care of the Steels that Haxorus wouldn't be able to put a dent in via STAB move; the fourth move is your choice of filler that won't be used too often. Of the four sets, this one offers the most power right off the bat which is crucial for a Pokemon such as Haxorus. With its underwhelming 97 base Speed, Haxorus won't always have the chance to set up, especially with all the Mischievous Heart Pokemon flying about.</p>

    Additional Comments:

    <p>Remember that this set is a Choice variant. Despite its monstrous visage, Haxorus should be hitting and running, and not staying in for too long. There are two viable options for Haxorus' nature. With Adamant, you can 2HKO Skarmory after it has switched in twice, a feat that not everyone can boast. Jolly gives Haxorus a really helpful boost and permits it to outspeed all base 95s and under with certainty.</p>



    Teammates & Counters:

    <p>Where do we start? The first thing to remember with building a team with Haxorus on it, like with all other Pokemon, is to remember its purpose. Seeing as this set is built to wreck stuff, it makes sense that there should be someone to clean up the mess, no? Revenge killers are to Haxorus as hyenas are to lions, and the best one for the job is Scizor. Scizor eats up all the Dragon and Ice attacks that will undoubtedly be aimed at Haxorus, while Scizor's famed Technician Bullet Punch will be KOing any unlucky victims more often than not. Also, Haxorus doesn't fair the Fire-type moves that typically do Scizor in. When playing with Haxorus, one must remember that there are plenty of scarfed Dragons roaming around nowadays; whenever one of these shows up, Haxorus should make like Houdini and disappear.</p>







    name: Choice Scarf <pending edits>
    move 1: Dragon Claw/Double Chop
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Outrage
    move 4: Brick Break / Rock Slide
    item: Choice Scarf
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    Nature: Adamant / Jolly
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe


    Set Comments:

    <p>When equipped with a Choice Scarf, Haxorus outspeeds every non-boosted, non-scarfed Pokemon in the game. When considering the majority of Pokemon that don't utilize a Choice Scarf, that is a huge boon to Haxorus. </p>

    Additional Comments:

    <p>At first glance, using a Scarfed Haxorus may seem odd since ScarfChomp and ScarfFlygon, the conventional scarfed dragons, both have 100 base speed or higher. Also, the two aforementioned drakes are both bulkier than Haxorus as well. However, Haxorus has a much higher damage output, a Mold Breaker Earthquake, as well as a Water resist and 2x Ice weakness (instead of 4x). Also, take into account that ScarfFlygon lacks the overall power and gamebreaking effect that ScarfChomp and Haxorus do, and that every team is prepared for the Garchomp. Haxorus is a far different threat, even if it does the same things.</p>

    Teammates & Counters:

    <p>Considering all of Haxorus' traits and moves, Magnezone works as a great teammate to Choice Scarf Haxorus. The two biggest threats to this set, Steel-types and scarfed dragons</p>


    [SET]
    name: Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Taunt / Dragon Tail
    item: Life Orb
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    Nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe











    Set Comments:

    <p>After one Dragon Dance, Haxorus' 97 base speed allows it to outspeed every non-scarfed, non-boosted Pokemon in the game, as well as all base 95 scarfers. The fantastic ability, Mold Breaker, allows Haxorus to have perfect coverage in two moves. The only Pokemon walling this combination, Skarmory, is completely shut down by either Taunt or Dragon Tail. Haxorus is a stellar choice for a Dragon Dance set, seeing as a boosted Outrage coming off of such a great Attack stat is netting a lot of OHKOs and 2HKOs.</p>


    Additional Comments:

    <p>With an Adamant nature, Haxorus hits even harder, but this of course, is coming at the expense of the speed in the Jolly nature. Also, this set is where Haxorus' ability, Mold Breaker comes in most handy. Mold Breaker allows Haxorus to beat Bronzong and Gengar, who would both otherwise have a field day with the set. The last slot is a toss-up between two stellar moves. Dragon Tail forces Steels to switch out, while Taunt shuts most of them down (as well as preventing status).</p>



    Teammates & Counters:

    <p>When considering a teammate for Haxorus, look no further than Magnezone, enough said. It kills the steels that'll try to wall Haxorus, and doesn't fear any of the things that Haxorus does, except maybe Garchomp. Taking the silver in this competition is Skarmory, who offers utility in the form of entry hazards and phazing to make Haxorus' job a lot easier. Also, when playing with this Haxorus set and any other, it cannot be stressed enough that you must always avoid other dragons. They're more likely than not going to be scarfed, and will take advantage.</p>






    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Taunt / Dragon Tail
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Mold Breaker
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe











    Set Comments:
    <p>This set functions as a wallbreaker, not a sweeper. If you want a sweeper, consider the Dragon Dance set. Haxorus is dangerous on its own, but when you give it steroids in the form of Swords Dance, even Steels will think twice before switching in </p>

    Additional Comments:

    <p>On this set, speed and attack should be maxed out in order to share as much pain with your enemies as possible. Sadistic much? Dragon Tail and Taunt are both viable options. That choice specifically depends on whether you want to phaze or block status. Brick Break can be used to slap Nattorei in the face when it inveitably switches in, preventing it from walling Haxorus. Brick Break also takes care of Porygon2 without forcing you to click Outrage. Of the four sets listed, this incarnation of Haxorus is the most prone to revenge killing if them all, so take caution.</p>



    Teammates & Counters:

    <p>Like with the Dragon Dance set, Skarmory and Magnezone are perfect support options since they both help with Haxorus' sustainability and role in general. As always, one should watch out for Mamoswine and Weavile, the two most common users of the move Ice Shard, as well as the scarfed dragons.</p>



    [Other Options]

    <p>Rivalry could be used, but it is generally unreliable and extremely gimmicky.While the boost is appealing, Mold Breaker is a fantastic ability and puts the ribbon on the box. Also, there's no reason that one should trade up such a great ability for such an unreliable one. </p>

    [Checks & Counters]

    <p>With 147 base attack, there is no such thing as a counter for Haxorus, but that doesn't mean it is fearless. An eye should be kept out for Weavile and Mamoswine, the most common users of the priority move Ice Shard. Superstrong users of priority in general, such as Roopushin, Infernape, Scizor, and Hitmontop can all work as teammates to clean up after Haxorus. Always remember though, that if Nattorei or Forretress comes in, Haxorus should immediately bounce. Neither of those two are seriously threatened by Haxorus and can both proceed to stall it out.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Tension is near useless when compared to Mold Breaker and even Rivalry. </p>
  2. Anachronism

    Anachronism

    Joined:
    May 6, 2009
    Messages:
    560
    My favorite set so far has been Dragon Dance + Taunt. I have not really finalized an EV spread for that yet, but the basic premise is that Skamory is the only common thing that can wall you very well, so you use Taunt to allow you to set up on it. An issue is that the metagame favors Brave Bird Skarmory at the moment, so it isn't as completely helpless as Taunt Skarm would be. Nevertheless, it is a pretty decent set.

    Ononokosu @ Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    Dragon Dance
    Taunt
    Earthquake
    Outrage/Dragon Claw
  3. Iconic

    Iconic
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,900
    Make sure you mention Magnezone as the quintessential partner for just about every set since Skarm is basically the only thing that can straight up wall this thing. Also I'm loving the OHKOsu set name.

    Approved 1/2
  4. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Ubers Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    2,389
    Sets look fine. Probably mention Brick Break as an option over Taunt/Dragon Tail in the AC for the DD and SD sets so you don't get trolled by Gyro Ball Nattorei. It also allows you to smack Porygon2 hard without resorting to Outrage yet.

    [​IMG]
  5. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,158
    Personally I think CB should be the first set. While a DD Ononokusu is certainly threatening, it simply lacks the coverage to consistently sweep (lack of a fire move hurts) and its speed is lacking.(+1 base 97 is still out sped by common scarfers) Furthermore, Ononokusu is surprisingly frail and some difficult in setting up Dragon Dances. I'd like to point out that Skarmory is hardly beaten by the DD set. It takes (36.2% - 42.8%) from +1 Outrage and it deals 40.1% - 47.3% with Brave Bird. So assuming Skarmory switches into Ononokusu's Dragon Dance, it will actually beat 1 on 1.

    CB is nice because it hits hard right of the bat, and IMO is the best set Ononokusu can pull off. With proper support, it's capable of netting free kills due to its sheer power. Slower bulkier teams and some stall teams have a hard time with Ononokusu due to its insane Power.

    Finally, you should also make a Choice Scarf set. It's not amazing by any means, but it's useful for catching people of guard and it can sweep late game. Rilvary needs a bigger mention because it notably boosts Ononokusu's power. The SD set for example is capable of reliably 2HKOing Skarmory after a boost and if Rilvary is in effect. This comes with the flaw of being significantly weaker against Pokemon with the opposite gender but most players use the default male gender anyway.

    Edit:
    IMO the ordering of the sets should be:
    Choice Band
    Choice Scarf
    Dragon Dance
    Swords Dance
  6. Nosferalto

    Nosferalto We're all gonna make it
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,888
    yeah CB should definitely be the first set. It's best set Ononokusu can pull-off that gives it an edge over other Dragon-types because (which should probably be mentioned) because of the obvious monstrous power that it possesses and the lack of a SR weakness, which allows it to switch-in more times than those Dragon / Flying ones.
  7. Sir Azelf

    Sir Azelf

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    Messages:
    242
    Is Double Chop worth a slash on the CB set with Dragon Claw for sub breaking ?
  8. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,267
    Scarf set, absolutely, Jolly with Max Atk and Max Spe is a great revenge killer, and while it may be odd to use it over Garchomp, it has a couple notable advantages, such as Mold Breaker Earthquake, significantly more power, and notably only a 2x Ice weakness (among other things, like water resist compared to garchomp and no sr weakness compared to salamence). The set should be similar to Choice Band, but Rock Slide should be slashed above Brick Break due to the power issues and flinch chance.

    Slash Double Chop on next to Dragon Claw... pretty much everywhere. It breaks subs (scarf jolly even breaks skymin sub, 100/75 defenses woo), has multiple hits for "increased ch rate", and is generally a useful move. Accuracy is kind of a letdown, though.

    also for the love of god no retarded set names please so rename the dd set to Dragon Dance
  9. Chubbs

    Chubbs

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2010
    Messages:
    231
    You put in two full stop/periods in after quite a few sentences, I'm not sure if you meant to put one there; or if you meant to put an ellipsis (...). Either way, nicely done.
  10. R.B.G.

    R.B.G.

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    119
    Question:

    I've been hearing about these "Double Dragon" teams, in which a common tandem seems to be Ononokusu-Garchomp as wallbreaking partners (a bit similar to the way Salamence + Rayquaza terrorized Ubers last generation.) I don't know if it's worth it's own set, but maybe one of these sets should go in the AC?
  11. thejoker98

    thejoker98

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    Messages:
    46
    Dancing Partner
    @Life Orb
    Adamant
    252 att/252 spe/4 hp
    -Dragon Dance
    -Outrage
    -Earthquake
    -Brick Break/Double Chop/Dragon Tail
  12. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2010
    Messages:
    1,642
    Double chop needs to be slashed with dragon claw everywhere. Bar accuracy, it's superior in every way and useful for its sub, sash and sturdy breaking qualities.

    I also noticed this in the CB set comments:

    Dragon Claw is the crux of this set. It allows Ononokusu to use a reliable STAB move with no drawbacks, unlike Outrage, which will lock it in. Double Chop can also be used: you lose a bit of power, but gain the ability to break subs.

    I initially read this as "you can use double chop instead of dragon claw, but you lose a bit of power." This is incorrect.

    Double chop 40 BP, 15 pp, 90% acc
    Dragon claw 80 BP, 15 pp, 100% acc

    As double chop hits twice, its effective base power is identical to dragon claw. The only other difference between the moves is the accuracy. The structure of the above excerpt reads awkwardly as well. How about this:

    "A choice band ononokus wields monstrous power. Its decent speed and exceptional neutral coverage make this set a massive threat to anything unfortunate enough to be slower that our axe faced dragon.

    Dragon claw, Its primary STAB attack, is a reliable option that compliments this sets hit-and-run nature well. Outrage can be used when a bit of extra push is needed, or for taking down bulkier opponents.

    Mold breaker is a huge boon to ononokus, negating the dragon/ground resistance of every pokemon in OU except skarmory*. This gives it perfect coverage in dragon claw + earthquake and allows the use of a secondary dragon STAB."

    *citation needed.
  13. AxelLow

    AxelLow

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    199
    Sets look as dangerous as they were thought to be. Overall, good stuff RGB.

    All these sets work great in double dragon, with him being lead or not. I think im going to continue to run my "weird" "Bulky" Ono that I've used for so long, but still, good stuff.
  14. Drakno

    Drakno

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1
    Hi, I am a new member of this community, I am pretty interested in gen 5 and looking forward to it for a while now I was mainly watching narration trying to get my head around what counters what well, what I can not afford not to have a counter for cause it will sweep me easily and exactly how to be able to guess if something is choiced buffed in terms of damage or scarfed in the case it would outspeed me anyway (I have been a fan of bulk since gen 1 with snorlax (I quit playing a bit after gen 2)) so I have been looking around the forums to learn the useable sets etc etc etc anyway the reason I made an acount is really just to say this: Anachronism, you sir have the greatest sig message of all time, kudos to you sir!

    I apologize for making an off topic post and I promise it won't happen again.
  15. GameMaster0000

    GameMaster0000

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Messages:
    180
    I think you should merge DD and SD set together it is just only change 1 move and look nearly same.
  16. Noble Cactus

    Noble Cactus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    Messages:
    133
    But they do completely different jobs: SD is for brute wallbreaking force, DD is for all-around handy attacking.

    Edit: Never mind, hasty statement. The two are pretty similar after all.
  17. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2010
    Messages:
    596
    I would merge the Choice Scarf and Choice Band sets as they are almost exactly the same. Include the benefits and reasons for the two like you have in the separate analyses. The same can be said for the Swords Dance and Dragon Dance sets.

    Aside from that, amazing job, you have both of the 2 required approvals. Here's an animated GIF as a present.
    [​IMG]
    All you need to do now is combine the sets and write it up!
  18. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,170
    Merging the two Choice sets would make sense, though it would make more sense to do so if he had similar values between Attack and Speed. I'd say merge the two into "Choice" and clearly state how both versions play differently. Approval has been there and no other changes are needed.

    Don't know why I have been holding out on using this guy though.
  19. StarGengar

    StarGengar

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2010
    Messages:
    73
    You mention rivalry as unreliable, but seriously, who bothers in making his/her pokemon female? Rivalry will almost always net you an attack boost, and i think, its as useful as mold breaker can be (and btw, i dont quite see the benefits of mold breaker; what cant you hit with EQ without MB? Rotom?)

    If im wrong (maybe MB bypasses ballon too?) please tell me, but in my opinion, rivalry deserves at least a good explanation in OC
  20. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
    Messages:
    765
    Mosrly for Bronzong, who walls Ononokusu pretty cold with his high Defense.

    Bronzong then can set up TR, SR, Dual Screen or just attack with Gyro Ball. And with Rivarly, Jolly Ononokusu can't 2HKO 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Evo Stone Chasey with Outrage, that can T-Wave / Toxic / Protect / etc.

    Also, I think that Mold Breaker can bypass Sturdy.
  21. GameMaster0000

    GameMaster0000

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2009
    Messages:
    180
    Not think, it is fact. Also Mold Breaker bypass Dragonite multi scale too.

    Rivalry I think it is not good option. You won't know what your oppent gender. If you is male and all of you opponent is female, you screwed.
  22. Mr.Senior

    Mr.Senior

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    93
    if this guy gets either fire punch or aqua tail in the 3rd 5th gen game itll be a huge boon to its movepool. as of right now thats really all its begging for. still a total beast poke and very good analyses. and to whoever said double chop breaks sturdy/multiscale it has mold breaker so thats a non-issue. so in the mid-game if u can get any hazards up, all double chops merit is breaking subs. which isnt that bad and still deserves a slash imo everywhere dragon claw is for the sub breaking and 2 chances of critting.
  23. Shining Kestral

    Shining Kestral

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2010
    Messages:
    318
    People who play ingame rather than on a simulator. Even if the majority of Smogon players play on PO, there is still a strong wi-fi community, not to mention the many more people who visit Smogon and play on their retail carts exclusively. Sets should not be written with only a simulator in mind. They should work for actual cartridge play as well.

    Also, I set some of my mons to female on simulator teams.
  24. am zane ok.

    am zane ok.

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    183
    Unfortunately, a lot of Wi-Fi players, I included, use male Pokémon. Not only are male Pokémon useful as they can breed egg moves, but they tend to look cooler, too.

    But I do agree that Rivalry has its unreliable perks... More so on a simulator.

    -Zane
  25. StarGengar

    StarGengar

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2010
    Messages:
    73
    After my post i remembered Brozong, but never knew that MB bypasses multi scale and sturdy too o_O

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)