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Haxorus (Double Dance)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by AccidentalGreed, Sep 8, 2011.

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  1. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    This was introduced by QC back in July, I've heard, but it never gained much attention. I'm posting this now because I used it back then, and it was referenced in the Haxorus thread in Dragonspiral Tower.

    Status: Done

    QC Approvals (3/3): (PK Gaming) (Iconic) (Delta 2777)

    GP Approvals (2/2): (V0x) (Calm Pokemaster)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    [​IMG]
    I can't believe Fraxure got this set before me

    [SET]
    name: Double Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Swords Dance
    move 3: Outrage
    move 4: Earthquake
    item: Lum Berry / Draco Plate
    ability: Mold Breaker
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While it should be fairly obvious that Haxorus makes great use of either Dragon Dance or Swords Dance, each set is somewhat ineffective against specific types of teams, which limits Haxorus's utility if certain threats haven't been eliminated. By using both moves on the same set, however, Haxorus gains the ability to set up flexibly and destroy almost any team after the appropriate boost. For instance, using Swords Dance enables Haxorus to break through walls and bulky attackers in slower defensive teams, while Dragon Dance is reserved for offensive teams with faster Pokemon. If possible, Haxorus should find opportunities to use both boosting moves to become faster and even stronger, though its sweep might be at risk if it attempts to boost again. After either dance, practically every Pokemon in OU is 2HKOed, if not instantly vaporized, by Outrage or Earthquake.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set can be tweaked in a few ways; rather than use Haxorus's standard fare of 220 EVs in Speed, you can simply maximize Attack and Speed so Haxorus gains an advantage over opposing Adamant Haxorus and Darmanitan. If you desire some bulk, 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe is a viable alternative, as it allows Haxorus to outspeed positive base 130's after a Dragon Dance boost. Since setting up is more crucial than ever, Lum Berry is ideal to heal off status and Outrage-induced confusion, giving Haxorus opportunities to set up in front of status-reliant foes. As far as power-boosting items are concerned, Draco Plate is the preferred item, compromising between Haxorus's decent bulk and Life Orb's detrimental recoil. Even then, Lum Berry tends to be the better choice in most instances because of the popularity of defensive status users in the metagame, especially Ferrothorn and Rotom-W.</p>

    <p>Seeing as you can choose whichever boosting move to use for the appropriate situation, very little is completely safe from this set. To play this set correctly and avoid Outrage-induced confusion, however, bulky Steel-types, especially Ferrothorn and Skarmory, need to be eliminated beforehand. For starters, Magnezone is an instant solution to these threats due to its ability to trap and eliminate them immediately. If the prospect of Shed Shell or prediction wars is unappealing to you, a more straightforward (albeit less reliable) approach is using lures with Fire- or Fighting-type attacks. Alakazam, Togekiss, and Jirachi are just a few examples of such teammates. As always, dual screens support from the likes of Latios and Espeon (preferably one with Hidden Power Fire to weaken Steel-type counters) is still a good team option to consider, providing more setup opportunities and a form of insurance against possible revenge killers. It would also be advisable to pair Haxorus with alternative offensive teammates if the dragon finds itself attacking and fainting too early in the game.</p>
  2. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    change alternate ev spread to 36hp 252atck 220spe, 40hp makes evs 512 just 2 over 510. I think life orb is worth it with the extra power it gives. otherwise this looks good.
  3. El Guapo

    El Guapo

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    MoltenKyurem is right, those extra HP EVs will help, the only thing that I would add personally is life orb like Molten said.

    Sorry to repeat posts, or atleast I feel like I am.
  4. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I don't know if anyone actually played with such a Haxorus over Band, but it seems promising. With +2 Dragon Fang Outrage from an Adamant Haxorus, a 98% Skarmory is always 2HKOed after SR, so it allows the team to rely less on Magnezone to dispatch Steel Types.

    Magnezone is undoubtedly a great partner, though, to dispatch CB Scizor and Ferrothorn, which can actually annoy Haxorus with Thunder Wave or hard-hitting Gyro Balls. Lum Berry would allow it to set up on Ferrothorn without worrying about paralysis, but now it does a less good job at 2-shotting Skarm (it needs to be at 80% health for the guarantee).

    Anyways, congrats on the Pre-Con badge, AccidentalGreed! You definitely earned it!
  5. Katakiri

    Katakiri Listen, Brendan...
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    I'd have to go against running Life Orb. From the calcs I've been doing, he doesn't get a KO on anything notable with Life Orb that he can't with Draco Plate. At least on the Swords Dance side.
    +2 Lum Berry Outrage vs 252/184 Impish Gliscor: 86.4% - 101.7%
    With Draco Plate: 103.4% - 122%

    Outside of the odd Cofagrigus or Porygon2, not many non-resistant Pokemon can take that devastating +2 Outrage and live to tell the tale, especially after Stealth Rock.

    It could be helpful on the Dragon Dance side with a few thing like Gliscor (+1 Life Orb Outrage: 83.9% - 99.2%) but cutting survivability on a setup sweeper, especially with how Spike-ridden this metagame is, isn't really advisable. I've had plenty of Excadrill just today come into Haxorus only to miss KOing him by about 20% & just get itself & the rest of it's team lit-up by either EQ or Outrage.

    With Dragon Claw, yeah, Life Orb is the way to go, but he has enough power with Outrage that he doesn't need it.
  6. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    The 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe probably should be the main spread, as not only is the extra speed uneeded, but looking at the rest of the Haxorous analysis, choice scarf is the only set which doesn't use it. I don't see why this set would be any diferent.
  7. El Guapo

    El Guapo

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    I mean the main things you are trying to do damage to, are Nattorei(ferrothorn) and Skarm, if you can take them out, you are clear to sweep
  8. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    That's the thing, though - you don't need Life Orb to 2HKO Skarmory or Ferrothorn. Since most Ferrothorns are specially defensive, it should fall to 2 EQs after Swords Dance (at least the "standard" Ferrothorn on SmogonDex does). Also, Ferrothorn doesn't have reliable recovery, so it's not that hard to wear it down.
  9. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Oh, sure. Done.

    Yeah, I don't like Life Orb either, so it'll just get an AC mention. I find Lum Berry and Draco Plate are better in most situations, such as setting up on status users or getting a 2HKO on Skarmory.

    *blush* No I don't.

    So to anybody looking at the thread: do you think Dragon Claw should be a main option or not? It's not exactly as favorable as Outrage as of now.
  10. Pocket

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    I feel like max speed is still good as an insurance for Adamant Scarf Haxorus, who may come in to revenge.

    DClaw doesn't really help with both parts of the set. It doesn't pack enough power to break through would-be walls, and doesn't pack enough punch to sweep after a DD. The biggest appeal to me was its ability to overcome even the most defensive Steels, and going with DClaw loses that sole advantage.
  11. Rewer

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    Ah man this is actually very promising. Indeed, there's no point on using DD + 3 attacks with brick break when you can ddance against offensive teams and sdance against stall. Ferrothorn and friends gets 2HKO'd by Earthquake anyway. And you're actually gona lure Skarmory or trap with zone.

    I feel like Lum Berry is needed on this set. Mostly to protect Haxorus from status when setup. Like Rotom-W for example, when you DD/SD as lum berry actives then you proceed to sweep. I mean he can't OHKO Gliscor when +2 all time without Draco Plate but you can only consider this if you're playing against something who can really threat haxorus back. Gliscor dosent do too much and skarm gonna phaze you anyway so its pointless saying it 2HKOes skarm at +2 and he can't brave bird because it pushes him to 2HKO range.

    Yeah this is a promising set, i really like it.
  12. Shiki1335

    Shiki1335

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    Couldn't dual chop be used instead of outrage(it still gets stab and breaks sturdy/slash.) .
  13. Berserker Lord

    Berserker Lord unreliable analysis writer.

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    I definitley think it doesn't deserve it. Dragon Claw really has the trouble of being too weak for both setup moves to abuse. You aren't sweeping a stall team with Dragon Claw, and offensive teams will have something that can take Dragon Claw and hit back. Outrage really just gives that power that Haxorus needs to suceed. I would like to see Dragon Claw moved to AC if it's being mentioned at all.
  14. PK Gaming

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    QC APPROVED (1/3)

    You should mention a bulkier spread in AC. (120hp/252atk/136spe) which still lets you outspeed adamant Dnite and tran, as well base 130s after a DD boost. I'm currently not sure if this set will replace both the SD set and the DD set or get priority over 1 (or both) either way its definitely better than each individual set.
  15. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Having been an early pioneer of this set, I have to say that I'm not actually a huge fan of it. I found that very rarely did I need or want Swords Dance, and that having Dragon Claw in that slot was the best decision. I'm honestly not sold on this set being there when both DD and SD have main sets, and this set doesn't really do anything especially special.

    Not rejecting it outright, because it's not a bad set, but it seems more AC/OO to me than main set.
  16. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Dragon Claw (and Dual Chop if you're wondering) are on the chopping block, so it'll just get a mention in AC when it's there.

    Okay, and thanks for the approval!

    Personally, I find that Swords Dance came handy in several situations today, though this is based on QC's final judgement. I understand what you're saying though, and I'm glad you too understand what the set compromises. I think the only real thing to complain about this set is the necessity of one setup move over the other.
  17. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    Do the 36 HP EVs have any significance at all? I would just max out speed to outrun max speed Adamant Gliscor (I've seen a couple SD + Acrobat sets here and there) and tie with other Haxorus (including Adamant Scarf Hax at +1).

    Change that to 136

    Good set though. I would imagine DD is better almost all of the time, but SD messes up things like Hippo and Gliscor (which don't exactly wall DD, but tend to annoy it).
  18. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Well, to be honest, I'm not very sure myself, but I'm willing to maximize Speed just because of the simple threat of opposing Haxorus. According to this post, Haxorus gains a slight chance of surviving some attacks with a magic HP number. The concern with HP investment was later brought up right before the analysis was uploaded, and the arguments came up short. In case anybody is wondering: 220 Spe allows Haxorus to outrun positive-natured base 80 Pokemon, though investing in HP this way only gives it 9 HP.
  19. WoOoShoOo!!

    WoOoShoOo!!

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    If any of you has already read this post, you'll probably see why those 36 HP ev's are important. It gives Haxorus a little bulk.
  20. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Don't get me wrong, it came in handy for me too, but honestly Haxorus doesn't have the same merit in a Double Dance set as Terrakion, which has a Speed boosting move that doesn't also boost its Attack. If you're looking to stallbreak, use SD. If you want to sweep offensive teams, you'll want to use DD with Dragon Claw in the last slot. Having both doesn't make you any better against either type of team, since SD needs Taunt or Brick Break to wallbreak effectively and DD needs Dragon Claw to beat the standard offense/balance teams that are running around currently. Otherwise, you just Outrage their bulky thing and then get Paralyzed by Jirachi or something.
  21. cartercr

    cartercr

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    Why not just list Swords Dance in the additional options for the Dragon Dance set. Other than Swords Dance, the sets are essentially the same.
  22. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Because we'd have to do the same for the Swords Dance set.
  23. SJCrew

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    I don't see a problem with that.
  24. Iconic

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    i dunno i don't think this is a bad set at all. the only reason terrakion ONLY has a double dance set is because it almost never makes use of a coverage move aside from like... x-scissor for claydol? brick break is really useful on pure DD or SD sets, but DD and SD can be also useful together. i mean other options is fine, but it's proven to be a good set and it definitely wouldn't hurt to go onsite.

    QC Approved 2/3
  25. Delta 2777

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