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He Who Dances With Blades UU RMT

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by LoveHate, Oct 20, 2009.

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  1. LoveHate

    LoveHate

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    He Who Dances With Blades​

    Welcome to my RMT. And I hope you can do just that. I have been working on this team for a while now. With the reintroduction of Gallade I knew I had to build him a team before his brokeness makes him leave UU agian. The team focuses on allowing Sword Dance Gallade to do work. However; other members are sweepers in their own right. It was odd for me to build a balance team as I felt that such a team would have the defenses players end the momentum the rest of the team fought for. Needless to say I have never had a problem with such a coincidence as the defensive members carry thier own weight. Well lets introduce the team. ​

    At At Glance:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    What You will notice from just a glance is that I have a lead two physical sweepers, 2 physically defensive pokemon, and a specail sweeper. The defense walls are more for opening up holes in the oppenents team while also acting as buffers between pure offense. I built the team with a solid elemental core of fire, water, grass to allow for good coverage. ​

    In Depth:

    Lead
    [​IMG]
    Arcanine @ Life Orb
    Ability: Intimidate
    Nature: Adamant
    Evs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spe
    Moveset:
    Flare Blitz
    Extremespeed
    Morning Sun
    Toxic

    This is Legacy Raider's new anti-lead Arcanine as the other was "out of date". Being part of the elemental core Arcanine ends up taking some hits to round off the elemental defense. Flare Blitz and Extreme Speed usually take care of any sashers. Extremespeed in itself allows for Arcanine to hit faster leads like the ever so common Ambipom. Toxic allows arcanine to beat frosslass lead that has become so common without being killed off by destiny bond. Furthermore Toxic cripples the bulky waters that come in on Arcanine expecting no way for him to fight back. With the bulky waters survivability severly lowered the other members can come in for the kill. Overheat was replaced with Morning Sun to help with longevity. With Intimidate and Morning Sun Arcanine usually ends up lasting all if not most of the battle. The Evs are to give max attack allowing Flare Blitz and Extremespeed hit harder. While the Adamant nature finishes the attack while not detrimenting any of the defense. Life Orb is used to get extra power. Overall wins lead battles, cripples bulky pokemon, weakens offensive pokemon with intimidate, forms the elemental trifecta, and can come back to sweep on its own.


    "Stand Alone Sweeper"
    [​IMG]
    Honchkrow @ Life Orb
    Ability: Insomnia
    Nature: Adamant
    Evs:4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Moveset:
    Brave Bird
    Superpower
    Sucker Punch
    Roost

    Honchkrow and Gallade share several of the same counters. As such Krow brings them out and begins to batter them. One example of these counters is Spiritomb who Gallade needs to be damaged to take out. Sucker Punch provides and all reliable stab priority. I chose Roost as it allows to heal up after Brave Bird and Life Orb recoil. Krow's survive is nessacary to for the best results and Roost allows for such. The health is further hindered by the lack of a spinner. With a ground, psychic, and sleep immunity Krow is easier to get in and also gets more time to roost as he often forces switches. The Evs are standard allowing for maximum damage. Adamant was chosen as the loss in speed is made up for from priority sucker punch. Overall krow damages gallades counters, packs three immunities, sweeps by itself with great power/coverage, and provides priority.


    Sp Atk/ Sleeper/ Revenge Killer
    [​IMG]
    Venusaur @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Overgrow
    Nature: Modest
    Evs: 8 HP / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
    Moveset:
    Leaf Storm
    Sleep Powder
    Sludge Bomb
    Hidden Power Ice

    With Roserade banished to the realm of the OU, Venusaur has been seeing alot more play. Scarf Vensaur is rather uncommon. However; it is simply a slower, bulkier, weaker attacking Scarfed Roserade. Overall Venusaur adds speed to the team as everyone is a little on the slower side. The speed allows Saur to become an effective revenge killer. Leaf Storm and Sludge Bomb provide Stab options. Leaf Storm is more hit and run, where Sludge Bomb is for a more drawn out attack. Hidden Power Ice was added to round out the coverage. Sleep Powder is very useful way of removing threats from a battle. Furthermore Saur is the next piece of the elemental trifecta while also absorbing Toxic Spikes. The absorbing of Toxic Spikes is key as it is detrimental to every member of the team. Overall Venusaur acts as a revenge killer, adds speed to the team, is a specail attacker, cripples pokemon with sleep, and adds to the elemental core.


    SteelWorker/Tank
    [​IMG]
    Registeel @ Leftovers
    Ability:Clear Body
    Nature: Careful
    Evs: 252 HP / 100 Atk / 156 SpD
    Moveset:
    Stealth Rock
    Shadow Claw
    Thunder Wave
    Explosion

    Registeel serves as a tank and Stealth Rocker of the team. Stealth Rocks is obvious as it wears down the opponent. But he plays other important roles for the team. One of which is to explode on exceptionally bulky pokemon. This weakens a pokemon if not kills them. The next task is Thunder Waving. By T-Waving the opponent has his team slowed down this is important as Gallade and Honchkrow have a slight speed issue. By slowing down the opposition the other pokemon are able to out speed. With decent typing and monstrous defenses rsteel is able to wall and take many hits. Shadow Claw was chosen over stab to hit the ghosts that Steel draws in and prevent them from setting up. He defenses also have great synergy with Slowbro. As Bro walls the fighting attacks Steel can wall the dark and grass moves that threaten Bro. He was chosen over rock for toxic resistance, synergy with slowbro, being more specailly defenses and from testing doing the job better. Overall Regirsteek slows down the opponent, tanks, deals damage, and goes out with a bang.


    Bulky Water
    [​IMG]
    Slowbro @ Leftovers
    Ability: Own Tempo
    Nature: Bold
    Evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpD
    Moveset:
    Surf
    Psychic
    Thunder Wave
    Slack Off

    Slowbro is the pure defensive member of the team. He prevents Azumaril and strong fighting types from ripping the team apart. He also possesses Thunder Wave to allow for Krow and Gallade to be able to hit first as they are rather slow. With good typing for UU, Bro works well with Rock for overall coverage. While also acting as the third peice in the elemental core as water. Slack Off is a given as it allows for healing. Surf and Psychic provide decent coverage and allow slowbro to keep a little spirit of the offense going with dual Stab. Overall Bro slows down the opponent, walls some dangerous threats, covers well with rock, completes elemental core, and can stay alive with the use of Slack Off.


    He who dances with Blades
    [​IMG]
    Gallade @ Lum Berry
    Ability:Steadfast
    Nature: Jolly
    Evs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Moveset:
    Close Combat
    Leaf Blade
    Shadow Sneak
    Swords Dance

    Gallade has Three overriding weaknesses for the team to be built around him. First he is rather slow. That is taken care of thanks to the use of priority on his part, but also the use of Thunder Wave slowing down the adversary. The second weakness is status. The Lum Berry allows Gallade to set up as status is almost always a go to counter for Gallade. The other defense to this is that Krow absorbs sleep, Suar, poison, and rock doesn't made T-waves as he is already really slow. The third prevention of status is the absorbtion of Toxic Spikes. The third was that all priority users (especailly those with sucker punch) must be eliminated or he will be unable to do what he does. Regirock helps with this but the best bet is to not take Gallade out until the end game and just do work from there. Now with those covered let's discuss Gallade. Relatively maxed attack allows this sword dance set to put a dent in anything and everything. Maxed speed allows him to enter win speed ties over several UU threats (which T-wave helps eliminates.) Leaf Blade allows him to handle the bulky water and most bulky pokemon in UU are scared of grass. Most specifically Slowbro who seems to have been built to wall Gallade otherwise. Close Combat provides a strong Stab. While Shadow Sneak gives priority and a way to handle the ghosts that have been haunting the UU metagame. Overall Gallade finishes the game.

    Well that is the team rate/hate/steal​
  2. LoveHate

    LoveHate

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    I would like to thank everyone for helping with this team. The RMT has been updated and the team has actually gotten me on to the leaderboard (my first time) while also only showing signs of progressing. Now on to the...

    Threat List:

    Absol: Gallade, Krow, Arcanine
    Aggron: Gallade or Krow with fighting. Bro can his hits.
    Alakazam: Gallade and Krow with priority. Steel walls. Arcanine can handle
    Altaria: Venusaur Hp Ice
    Ambipom: Arcanine can handle, registeel can handle if lacking low kick. Suar can kill off. Krow just doesn't like fake out.
    Arcanine: Slowbro walls
    Azumaril: Slowbro handles well
    Blastoise:Venusaur
    Blaziken: Slowbro walls
    Chansey: Gallade and Krow
    Claydol: Venusaur and Gallade can KO
    Clefable: Gallade and Krow. Gallade doesn't like losing his lum berry to this chansey wanna be though.
    Donphan: Slowbro and Venusaur. Kro can pick off weakened ones.
    Drapion: Pretty much just batter and paralyze. Suar absorbs spikes. Once paralyzed can be killed off by Krow
    Drifblim: Krow and Gallade handle
    Dugtrio: Arcanine can pick off with Extreme Speed, Saur can revenge, Krow can handle with Sucker Punch
    Electrode: Arcanine kills it when a lead. Steel walls others
    Espeon: Gallade and Krow
    Feraligatr: Slowbro walls Venusaur can kill
    Gardevoir: Arcanine can take burns and kill if it is a support one. Attackers are walled by Steel
    Hariyama: Krow Brave Bird
    Hitmonlee: Slowbro walls and kills with psychic
    Hitmontop: Bro again
    Honchkrow: Arcanine handles while Suar revenges
    Houndoom: Arcanine
    Kabutops: Bro walls
    Lanturn: Steel
    Ludicolo: Gallade could set up on support ones. Krow KOs. Steel walls in a rain dance
    Magneton: Arcanine
    Mesprit: Steel walls. Krow can KO
    Milotic: Gallade can set up on unless haze if Haze Gallade can still take out, Steel Walls
    Miltank: Gallade
    Mismagius: Gallade with priority, Saur, Krow
    Moltres: Slowbro to sorta wall, Arcanine with toxic to wear down stall ones.
    Nidoking: Slowbro and Saur
    Omastar: Saur and Gallade take out with grass moves.
    Regirock: Slowbro
    Registeel: Gallade but gotta be carefull of status
    Rhyperior: Slowbro and Venusaur
    Rotom: Steel
    Spectile: Steel and Arcanine
    Slowbro: Gallade sets up.
    Spritomb: Big trouble for Gallade and Krow. Arcanine handles pretty well with toxic to get rid of bulk while unaffected by will-O-wisp
    Steelix: Slowbro, Arcanine, and Saur
    Tangrowth: Saur hurts with Ice. Krow can handle
    Torterra: Suar and Arcanine
    Toxicroak: Slowbro(come in thinking they can take advantage of him) Arcanine
    Umbreon: Krow and Gallade
    Uxie: Usually lead Arcanine cripples with toxic. Gallade and Krow both can also handle; dislike status though
    Venusaur: Krow and Arcanine
    Weezing: Usually takes a beating. Arcanine can takes Wisps and beat down. Bro can handle with psychic
  3. A.P.

    A.P.

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    Glad to see you're using my Lum Berry idea. But a quick nitpick - I'm short on time: You say Leaf Blade in your comments, but have it listed as Night Slash.

    Overall, I like the team, but switch Ice Beam to Psychic on Slowbro, as Venusaur is the only common Grasser.

    Nice team, good luck.
  4. LoveHate

    LoveHate

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    The lum berry works great. And as for your nitpick that will be changed. Concerning Psychic, I was thinking the same thing and am going to test it out.
  5. Erazor

    Erazor ✓ Just Doug It
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    Definitely Psychic over Ice Beam on Bro.

    Raikou seems like it could give this team trouble. See, it can come in on a revenge kill, say against Venusaur after it uses Leaf Storm, or after Slowbro kills, say, an Azumarill. It can then either Sub or Calm Mind, and your team is really quite helpless against it. I would be very wary of Exploding with Regirock if I were you, since only Regirock can really take a hit, and if it explodes before Raikou is revealed, then it's practically gg. If Venusaur is switching into Raikou after it has a Sub up, then it can first be heavily dented, then Raikou can switch out and just come in later. Next time, Venusaur will be 2HKOed.

    There is a simple fix - Change Venusaur to a bulky version with Physical attacks. However, I'm reluctant to make this change, because you lose your primary revenge killer. However, since you have paralysis support, you should give it a try. Or you could remove Explosion for Earthquake on Regirock.

    Nice team, PM me if there are any problems! Good luck!
  6. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    A couple of quick changes I would suggest here:

    Firstly, that Arcanine lead is a bit outdated, and with Roserade and Yanmega out of the tier the need for Lum Berry is greatly reduced. Arcanine still makes an excellent lead though, but try out this set instead:

    Arcanine @ Life Orb | Intimidate | Adamant | 8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spe
    Flare Blitz / ExtremeSpeed / Toxic / Morning Sun

    With Morning Sun in its arsenal, Arcanine can recover back health lost from Flare Blitz and Life Orb recoil, so the item's boost is definitely appreciated. Morning Sun also lets you Toxic stall things that lack recovery, such as Uxie. The extra Speed EVs make you faster than Timid max Speed Milotic, and max +Speed variants of Gallade, Venusaur, Blaziken, and other base 80s. A lot of Pokemon sit around that benchmark, so being guaranteed to outrun them is very helpful.

    I see a slight weakness to Raikou here. Venusaur handles it alright on the revenge, but your only switch in to Raikou is Regirock. With Stone Edge as your only attack, Raikou will have a very easy time stalling it out with Substitute and Pressure, and that's not taking Stone Edge's poor accuracy into account. Since Regirock is your Raikou check on this team, I would do one of two things: either drop Stone Edge for Rock Slide, whose higher PP helps against Raikou's subs and the flinch chance which works well with Thunder Wave, or drop Thunder Wave for Earthquake. Either one will work, it's up to you to decide how much you need a second paralysis inducer in Regirock. However, it's worth noting that if you go with Rock Slide this will also help you out a lot against other Sub users such as Mismagius and Rotom, both of which are immune to Explosion and will manage to stall out Stone Edge to a miss quite easily, so it is the option I would go with.

    On Venusaur, you don't really need all that much Speed. Vensuar's SpA is decent but not great, so it can really do with Modest's boost. The fastest I would suggest is Modest with 244 Speed EVs, letting you get the jump on Swellow, and Alakazam and Sceptile below as well. This will give Leaf Storm and Sludge Bomb a welcomed boost as well.

    If I was playing with this team, I would definitely give +Speed natures to Honchkrow and Gallade. Especially since both of these Pokemon are so common, you want to be guaranteed to tie at worst in any mirror matches. Gallade vs Gallade it all comes down to who gets the Shadow Sneak off first, and same with Honchkrow and Brave Bird, so give yourself the best chance to come out on top and go with Jolly on both of them.

    Best of luck.
  7. LoveHate

    LoveHate

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    I understand what you mean with outdated. And I do like the concept of increased speed, power and recovery. However I am weary on the loss of bulk. I will definately tryout this new arcanine though.

    As you and Erazor pointed out Raikou is a little hard for this team to handle nad must be played around. I think that rock slide is what I am going to change. I was wondering if you think that the double paralysis is nessacary? Back to the matter at hand rock slide should aid in this dilema while also helping deal with other subs as you have mentioned.

  8. iliketurkeybacon

    iliketurkeybacon

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    Cool team.

    I agree with other people suggesting different sets and items for Arcanine, yeah there aren't many common status leads and most I've been seeing have Thunder Wave, which you can bypass to an extent with Extremespeed.

    For Honchkrow, I see what you're saying with recoil and SR damage possibly being a problem, but who are you going to Roost on? Pretty much any neutral attack can 2hko him at the very least, and if something is choiced into a move he is immune to, wouldn't you rather Pursuit them? If you Roost and the opponent switches to something that can take a hit and kill it the next turn, or is faster and has priority, then you're going to have to switch out anyway and likely take 25% from Stealth Rock the next time. I don't see the point of Roost, and I suggest you replace it with something else, maybe Pursuit, but perhaps it works for you.

    Why HP Ice on Venusaur? Grass+Poison hits everything neutral except for Poison and Steel. In UU, the only Pokemon I can think of that isn't hit harder by one of Venusaur's STABs is Altaria, who takes over half as much from Sludge Bomb and can't do much to him anyway. There are no other good moves for a special choiced Venusaur besides Hidden Power, but I would highly suggest using Ground. While Fire seems like an obvious choice, Sludge Bomb hits other Grass-types harder, and HP Ground hits both types that resist Grass and Poison. Ground is a bad type to be choiced into, but a neutral HP Fire can also allow opponents to set up on you. Either one is much better than Ice in my opinion.

    I like your team, but I see weaknesses with stall teams that can Poison your tanks if Gallade is taken out too early, and something that outspeeds you and can take a priority attack (like Rock Polish Rhyperior), especially if your Venusaur, which isn't as bulky as most and lacks recovery, is KOed.
  9. LoveHate

    LoveHate

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    To begin thank You for liking my team

    Yea my only problem is in losing the bulk with arcanine. I am testing it and it is doing quite well. The extra speed and and atk is always a plus.

    To be honest I used to think the same thing. However with all the switches Honchkrow forces he gets numerous times to roost off the health. This is important as for balanced teams keeping the team alive is nessacary as they all work off eachother. And so all the chances to pursuit, just replace that with chances to roost. And it keeps krow alive to keep wrecking teams.

    I chose HP Ice to handle rock polish torterra as well as Altaria. Those two threats are very potent. Torterra can beat down both of my walls and is unaffected by twave. Thus my scarfer carries ice to deal him an unexpected death.

    I am not sure what you are talking about. Stall teams can't poison me thanks to venusaur absorbing spikes. Venusuar outspeeds rock polish Rhyperior. Venusaur is still bulky even without ev investment.
  10. Dusk

    Dusk

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    What Legacy Raider said about Jolly vs Adamant for 'Krow is true. And IIRC you don't pick up any vital 1 or 2 hit KO's with Adamant.

    [FONT=verdana,geneva,lucida,'lucida grande',arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Brave Bird and Life Orb is just too much recoil for poor 'old Honchkrow to handle. I suggest using a Choice Band with Brave Bird, or Life Orb and Drill Peck[/FONT]. IF you do opt to use a choice band it's worth considering Night Slash instead of Sucker Punch to punish Raikou/Mismagius switch-ins that will sub/CM on the switch and start raising hell.

    Also Honchkrow doesn't have the defences to use Roost. Use pursuit instead.
  11. A.P.

    A.P.

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    Honchkrow has excellent opportunites to use Sucker Punch, and it's quite useful for longevity purposes on predicted switches. If you don't feel like you get enough Roost opportunities, HP Grass punishes Rhyperior, who loves to set up on Krow, and could actually be useful.

    And BBKrow works well with Adamant, gives you the KO on Registeel with BB + Superpower. I think it gets Tomb as well.

    Brave Bird breaks Raikou and Missy Subs, and you only take like 5% recoil. Sucker Punch is vital in taking down things like DDGatr and RP Torterra after they are weakened slightly.

    Honestly, I'm getting the feeling you haven't used Krow right, if you're making suggestions like this.
  12. iliketurkeybacon

    iliketurkeybacon

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    Has this actually worked for you in a game? I really think my first post and Dusk's above this remove any doubt that you should use Pursuit, or at least something other than Roost. Life Orb+Brave Bird is a lot of recoil, but it seems to be a sort of necessary evil. I know Roost would mediate this, but there really isn't any situation where you'd force something to switch, and then not be forced out. If you're forced out, since you have no spinner, I think it's safe to assume that you'll take 25% on the way in, so you are gaining only 25 percent of Honchkrow's meager HP back, assuming the enemy switches. If they don't switch, you're probably going to get KOed, or at least take more damage than the 50% you recovered. If they do switch, you have wasted your switch-in of Honchkrow (often a hard thing to do), and you have also given your opponent a free turn, unless you stay in and attack, which would have been better done on the switch.


    Just like with Rhyperior (I typed the next reply before this one), your Venusaur won't want to switch into entry hazards and a STAB Earthquake, even if it can then KO Torterra (barring Yache Berry). This means that you will have to either keep one of your Pokemon in to take a hit, or predict the Rock Polish perfectly. I can see why you want to keep HP Ice though.

    As for Altaria though, HP Ice doesn't really do that much for a 4x effective attack.

    Your Venusaur's HP Ice against 252 HP/56 SpD Calm Altaria (off of the Smogon Defensive set, I've seen about 8-10 of these this week and only one mixed Altaria):
    208 HP (59%) - 248 HP (70%)

    HP Ice from Venusaur would be unexpected, but the first thing most people do with Altaria if you have Stealth Rock down is Roost expecting you to switch. Of course, if Altaria is otherwise damaged, you can often kill it in one hit, but otherwise they could switch into any Ice resist and force you to switch back into Spikes/SR if they want another shot at Altaria, which HP Ice will not surprise anymore. Of course, there are some offensive Altarias, but I don't think Venusaur is a great option for dealing with it. This is another argument for making your Venusaur Modest (HP Ice does 64-77%, which means it can kill it after Stealth Rock damage with some luck).


    All the stall teams I have seen always have the actual move Toxic, even if they use Toxic Spikes (in fact, I haven't seen a lot of Toxic Spikes since Roserade was moved to OU). I know you can make the "if X Pokemon is dead X Pokemon is a big threat argument" for just about any team, but it is really important for yours, as you're relying on one choiced pokemon to remove Toxic Spikes when you have 4 members that are affected by them (I'd imagine you want to keep Gallade's Lum Berry if you can help it). Without recovery or a Rapid Spinner, a smart opponent can easily force Venusaur to switch and eventually wear it down exclusively with passive damage. You do outspeed Rock Polish Rhyperior, but you can't really switch in unless you're willing to take an Earthquake (they may Rock Polish, but that's an unwise first move unless they know your whole team), at which point your opponent will likely switch out to a Grass resist, forcing you to switch out. Also, without Venusaur, Rhyperior demolishes your team after a Rock Polish, only losing to your Slowbro if it's at good health.

    I know that was a lot of nitpicking, but I really don't think you can rely solely on Venusaur for revenge killing, and removing Toxic Spikes set by stall teams, without it taking a ton of damage from Spikes or Stealth Rock. I understand that Venusaur is bulky without EV investment, but there is a massive difference between your 56 HP Venusaur and a 252 HP Venusaur. I'm not saying that yours can't take hits well, but it can't take hits well compared to most Venusaur.
  13. LoveHate

    LoveHate

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    Is it possible to run a fusion of the arcanines. With bulky evs and the new moveset consisting of Morning Sun.

    Also I wish to know if it is possible to run Modest nature on Venusuar and outspeed rock polish torterra.
  14. iliketurkeybacon

    iliketurkeybacon

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    Nope, you're about 6 points short. Although I think Modest would be a better idea in general, and you can do things such as switching from Slowbro to Arcanine and Intimidating on the resisted Megahorn, making him less of a threat. Venusaur was more of a check than a counter anyway.

    Edit: Thought you said Rhyperior. Your Venusaur never outsped Rock Polish Torterra, even if you went Timid and maxed out speed most variants would be faster after a Rock Polish.

    Also, yes you can do a bulky Arcanine with that set, it's actually quite good. However, it's not a great lead, but at the same time, you don't have a spinner. So I wouldn't suggest it unless you want to change another Pokemon around.
  15. LoveHate

    LoveHate

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  16. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider
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    Hey do you know it's against the rules to bump your thread more than once? Just bare that in mind for the future.

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