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Heatran (Magma Storm) [QC 3/3] (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Harsha, Mar 17, 2012.

  1. Harsha

    Harsha
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    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Status: Copyediting
    QC Approvals: Straw Hat Luffy, AccidentalGreed, Iconic
    GP Approvals: sirndpt, mafequeen
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    Note to uploader: There's a sentence in the OO about Magma Storm that you may want to remove :)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    RAWR!

    [SET]
    name: Magma Storm
    move 1: Magma Storm
    move 2: Taunt / Substitute
    move 3: Earth Power
    move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic / Hidden Power Ice
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    ability: Flash Fire
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Heatran is usually seen either flaunting its offensive capabilities or using its defensive prowess to help lay hazards and wall Dragons, it can also function effectively as a trapper. Sun teams by nature are weak to sand and rain because both Tyranitar and Politoed have an edge over Ninetales. However, Heatran works very well in trapping and crippling those two due to its signature move, Magma Storm. While this might require some explanation due to the type advantage that both Tyranitar and Politoed have over Heatran, it is actually quite simple. Heatran works as an efficient lure for the two due to their typing advantages and can hit them on the switch-in with either Will-O-Wisp or Toxic. Either of these debilitating status conditions will cripple any opposing weather starter for the entire match, making it easier for Ninetales to win the weather war.</p>

    <p>While Heatran cannot effectively beat down opposing weather starters in just one sitting, it will almost certainly do it in two. Magma Storm lets Heatran effectively trap the opposing Pokemon for four to five turns, as opposed to a minimum of two in DPP, giving it several turns with which to simply do damage with Earth Power while the opponent cannot switch out. After the opponent faints, Ninetales can come in and set up Drought unscathed. Taunt works very well because opponents such as Tyranitar will often try to set up Stealth Rock against Heatran, only to be thwarted by Heatran's superior Speed. However, Substitute is also a viable option to shield Heatran from Thunder Wave and revenge killing attempts that might follow.</p>

    <p>The choice between Will-O-Wisp and Toxic depends on the team's capability to keep physical behemoths in check. If a team is weak to Terrakion, Landorus, or Gyarados, who are all common switch-ins to Heatran, Will-O-Wisp is the recommended move as it enables Heatran to handle these threats with more ease. However, Toxic is more effective against Blissey and Chansey, who pack massive Special Defense stats to counter Heatran. While it cannot cripple weather starters, Hidden Power Ice deals out massive damage to Dragon-types such as Dragonite, Salamence, and Haxorus.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Heatran's offensive EV spread is best suited for its trapping purpose, as it allows Heatran to deal maximum damage and outspeed neutral natured Dragonite, Gyarados, and Breloom. Additionally, it allows Heatran to fire off fast Taunts so that it does not become setup fodder. However, an alternate EV spread of 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpA works well for taking physical hits such as Tyranitar's Superpower. Since Heatran is naturally faster than Politoed and Tyranitar, two of Magma Storm Heatran's main targets, Speed investment for the sole purpose of trapping is not always necessary. However, Heatran will be slower than Choice Specs Politoed and some variants of Tyranitar that run Speed EVs, so one should always play with caution.</p>

    <p>The choice of item again depends on the type of team one is using Heatran on. Leftovers preserves Heatran's bulk and is a superior option for teams that depend heavily on sun for support, such as those with several Chlorophyll users, as they will not want to lose Heatran too early in a match. However, Life Orb grants Heatran many handy KOs, such as the OHKO on Haxorus with Hidden Power Ice after Stealth Rock damage. In addition, Life Orb Heatran has a chance of 2HKOing Blissey after Stealth Rock damage with Magma Storm in the sun, and specially based Chlorophyll sweepers, such as Venusaur and Victreebel, will always appreciate the removal of specially based walls. Air Balloon is another great item because it gives Heatran a momentary answer to Landorus, one of the biggest threats to Drought teams. However, it is only a temporary solution, and becomes useless when broken. Wide Lens is another option as Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, and Magma Storm could all do with an accuracy boost, but it neither adds power to Heatran's moves nor increases its survivability, so it should only be used on teams that cannot afford to lose a battle because of a miss.</p>

    <p>Ninetales is the best partner to this set, as it appreciates Heatran's trapping skills and access to Taunt. Taunt stops opponents from laying Stealth Rock, which would otherwise limit Ninetales's switch-in opportunities. Ninetales also provides Drought support to boost Heatran's Fire STAB moves, so the relationship is mutually favorable. Additionally, Chlorophyll sweepers appreciate Heatran's ability to remove opposing weather inducers, so packing Venusaur or Victreebel is never a bad idea. Grass-type Chlorophyll sweepers also tank Politoed's Water STAB attacks well and cover the Water weakness Ninetales and Heatran share. While it might seem redundant, Dugtrio can also work very well as a partner because Heatran can cripple the opponent and Dugtrio can finish the job. While Magma Storm Heatran does not have to be played on a Drought team, it is best used to help Drought teams win weather wars. Nonetheless, it can be used on any team that needs a good check to all forms of weather, sun included.</p>

    <p>While Heatran can take down Blissey, the same does not always apply to Chansey. If Heatran lacks Taunt, Chansey will be able to stall Heatran out with either Softboiled or Wish. Thus, a strong Fighting-type Pokemon, such as Terrakion or Conkeldurr, is recommended as their massive Attack stats complement Heatran's high Special Attack. Additionally, both of these Fighting-types fare well against Tyranitar in case Heatran is not able to get the job done. Infernape is a great partner because it not only beats the aforementioned threats, but also gets its Fire STAB boosted by Drought. If Heatran lacks Hidden Power Ice, it will be setup fodder to Lum Berry Dragonite and Haxorus, so they must be played against cautiously.</p>​
  2. col49

    col49 what.
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    this actually looks kinda neat, im rather tempted to try it out. personally, i would imagine hp ice would be slashed with toxic, as losing earth power means ya flat out lose to opposing tran, as well as starmie/infernape and such, to a lesser degree. also, maybe mention wide lens somewhere? it loses sub recovery, but it somewhat mitigates magma storm's less than ideal accuracy, and allows you to feint the choice set to a degree (though it does become obvious once you use anything that isn't earth power/hp ice). but yeah, ya may wanna elaborate on how this thing beats blis/chan (i imagine switching to another poke to dispatch it properly?), cuz when i first read the comment i thought you were crazy .-. but as a whole, pretty neat set, hope it goes through well.
  3. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    I'm not really sure what the point of this set is. It traps stuff...that switched INTO Heatran. Unless there is something very unexpected about its moveset (which there isn't really) then I don't see what Heatran is going to achieve apart from possibly taking out Blissey and Chansey. And for this, you sacrifice the ability to use a STAB move that is in any way reliable.

    One advantage that you didn't mention is that the opponent cannot pull a double switch on you after you fire off a magma storm. This often means that you can guarantee a favourable matchup when Heatran switches out. This may actually be the best thing about the set. I'd also consider mentioning protect on there somewhere. Extra lefties, toxic and magma storm damage certainly can't hurt.
  4. Harsha

    Harsha
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    oops, I slashed HP Ice in the wrong place -___-
    Yeah that's basically what I meant about Blissey / Chansey. Wide Lens seems sorta cool so I'll wait for more opinion regarding that though. Thanks!
  5. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Life is like a hurricane
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    Cool set, but mention Taunt! Taunt is pretty much one of the best moves in conjunction with Magma Storm and to be honest I would personally not consider using Magma Storm Heatran without it. To be honest I would replace Substitute since Taunt is just much better since it actually prevents Blissey and Chansey from using Softboiled or Wish, meaning they actually die before you do from Seismic Toss. Also mention Will-O-Wisp since it hits Dragonite, Gyarados, Terrakion much harder than Toxic.
  6. BTzz

    BTzz spams overhand rights
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    Cool set Harsha
    • I think a set like this calls for a bulkier EV spread for more efficient trapping so im going to suggest using a modified version of grimm's spread: Modest; 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 SpA. This spread enables Heatran to survive, 3 Tyranitar Superpowers, a non-Banded Terrakion Close Combat, and 2 Banded Outrages from Dragonite / Haxorus while still hitting hard
    • it's worth noting that Magma Storm got a buff this gen going from 2-5 trap turns to 4-5
    • I think Taunt gets a slash with Substitite. With Taunt, you can stop trapped foes such as Blissey or Vaporeon from recovering, allowing all of the residual damage to get the job done quicker
    • Will-O-Wisp should go in AC as it's useful for limiting the amount of damage trapped opponents such as Tyranitar can do
    • Wide Lens could also go in AC as it raises Toxic's accuracy to 99% and Magma Storm's to 82.5
    • Maybe mention Protect for stalling as an option over Toxic if the team can provide Toxic Spikes support
  7. Harsha

    Harsha
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    Oooh, that's a good idea. I'll add Taunt in over Substitute, since I am a bit tentative about removing Substitute. However, with Taunt, it would be able to run all over Blissey and Chansey

    Just saw your comment BTzz! I'll reply in a few minutes
    All good ideas, I added them. I'll wait and see on the EVs, but it seems viable because it allows Heatran to support more effectively at the cost of some power
  8. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Minor presentational point: Given that the set name is "Magma Storm", and Magma Storm is the key move on the set, Magma Storm should be the first rather than the second move on the set.
  9. Harsha

    Harsha
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    Gotcha, and I may be changing the name sooner or later but Magma Storm is the most important move
  10. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Awesome set, but I think you could do a better job at illustrating what makes this set good. You need to absolutely mention that this sets primary goal is luring out Tyranitar and Politoed and taking them both out for sun teams. I've seen / faced a few Magma Storm heatran, and their absolutely primary goal was to remove Politoed and Tyranitar from play for Sun teams. You made a minor mention about dealing with Tyranitar in AC, but that should be the main reason this set is used, not because it does heavy damage against things like Rotom-W.

    I'd like to see a Life Orb slash and a Hidden Power Grass slash (specifically for dealing with Politoed), but again dealing with it is risky since it could always carry a scarf, or be bulky enough to survive repeated hits. Regardless, wearing it down is always useful, and 2-3 rounds of Magma Storm + Hidden Power Grass and residual damage should be enough take it out i'd wager. BTzz's spread is great for Tyranitar, and I don't think its worth running SpD for Politoed since rain boosted water attacks hit too hard. With that said, consider giving Passho Berry an AC slash for that specific purpose.

    Nobody hastily switches in Dugtrio into Heatran so i'd remove this bit imo.
  11. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
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    -Can be deadly if used against Blissey and Chansey, as you can either berate it with Toxic damage or switch to a wallbreaker to take them down

    Remove the last part as when you switch out heatran, the opponent is no longer trapped.
    I think that, is one of the purposes of this set is luring and taking out Blissey/Chansey, toxic should be a must, not a slash.
  12. Harsha

    Harsha
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    Yeah I see your point. I removed the calcs because honestly they didn't serve a big purpose and I shifted the focus of it to trapping weather. Got your changes in! :)

    Also, I'll remove that last portion, but Toxic is not the primary slash because of Toxic Spikes support etc.
  13. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Awwww yeah; just make Bz's EV spread the main one.

    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  14. Harsha

    Harsha
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    Alrighty, done. Thanks for the check!
  15. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    So before this set came to be, I tried out Heatran's Sunny Day set with Magma Storm over Fire Blast so that I could trap automatic weather inducers and other bulky Water-types. Needless to say, it's now a staple. I also tried this out a few times, and noticed it works well on certain teams (sun or bulky balance). You'll definitely need to establish Heatran's purpose, in terms of other sets and on certain teams.

    [​IMG]

    QC Approved [2/3]
  16. Harsha

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    Alright, I'll be sure to make that clear. Thanks! 1 more and we can get down to business.
  17. Doughboy

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    If you are running a bulky spread with no speed EV's, then should (he Lens that improves accuarcy if you are slower be considered? Heatran is pretty slow as is and having a 90% accurate Magma Storm would be nice. Just make it speedy enough to outspeed key threats.

    If we are aiming for residual damage, why no mention of Sandstorm? Sure magma storm has insane power but against eviolite chansey I am sure that the sandstorm damage would "outpace" the exta boost of sun.
  18. Knight of Cydonia

    Knight of Cydonia dance commander
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    Not sure if the zoom lens is a good idea, since minimum speed Heatran is faster than both minimum speed Tyranitar and Politoed.
  19. Nova

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    Consider Grip Claw to increase the length of the trap?
  20. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    You've picked a nice set, Harsha! I already told you what I felt about this set, and here are my thoughts after playing around with it:
    • EV Spread: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpA - just a few SpA EVs diverted to Defense and the chance of a Scarf Terrakion, often a bitch to Volcarona, scoring a Close Combat OHKO on Heatran is halved (25% -> 12.5%). This is without Rocks.
    • Here are some specific KOs LO obtains that you may want to mention. It is certainly notable for allowing Heatran to score an HP Ice OHKO on Haxorus. LO is also notable for having a significant chance to 2HKO Blissey with Rocks (~35% success rate, accounting accuracy). Unless Heatran is low in health, it will still beat Blissey without LO, though.
    • AC mention Air Balloon - It's a good defensive item, especially on a Sun team, which needs a good check to Heatran, and Landorus / Gliscor's EQ.
    • Primary slash Will-O-Wisp - When I played with Heatran, I hardly ever have it out for more than 3 turns. Will-O-Wisp actually does more damage than Toxic in the first 2 turns, making it probably a more preferable option in wearing down Politoed / Ttar / Hippowdon. We can't also ignore its crippling effect on the Sandstreamers. It would also allow Heatran to better combat DDNite / DDHaxorus without resorting to HP Ice, which doesn't contribute to wearing down counters to Sun teams. However, I admit that Toxic and Substitute is an annoying combination, although Wisp works perfectly well with Taunt. Undoubtedly, Toxic is also useful for BulkyVolcarona.
    • Explain the slashes: Taunt - Wisp - Lefties; Sub - Toxic - Lefties; and Taunt - HP Ice - LO are 3-way routes with this set. This is why Wisp should be slashed first, so it's paired with Taunt (not that Taunt & Toxic is implausible).
    • Remove HP Grass to prevent slashitis, since to me it's the least useful moves out of the four. AC mention HP Grass instead (preferably referencing LO).
    • Don't emphasize Toxic-stalling too much, since it really doesn't stall, but rather heavily cripples key Pokemon beyond repair. Plus as I've stated above, Wisp > Toxic in majority of cases.
    • Taunt is also crucial for preventing Rocks from going up so make sure to include this.
    • Dugtrio as a partner - on Offensive teams, Heatran does a flawless job luring in Politoed / Tyranitar for Dugtrio to eliminate after Heatran cripples them. Probably one of the most consistent way to win the weather war.
    • Sun Sweepers greatly benefit from this set, as Heatran does an effective job at luring and crippling the weather summoners.
    • AC mention a faster spread, since it comes handy when dealing with SpecsToed
  21. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Just saying:

    I'm just wondering, how are you killing Tyranitar or Politoed with this Heatran? Sure I understand that most people use a crappy Tyranitar set these days (SR/Pursuit/Fire Blast/Ice Beam, barf), but if people are switching their Tyranitar into your Heatran, they're probably armed with stuff like Stone Edge, Superpower, Earthquake, or a combination of them. Earth Power doesn't do all that much with the SpD boost. He is killing Heatran before the other way around in those circumstances. Onto Politoed, how are you killing a Politoed at decent health? HP Grass is in the third slot. Even if you do use HP Grass, Specs/Scarf Politoeds would just end up killing Heatran with Surf/Hydro Pump anyway, and even bulky sets can be iffy at times.
  22. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Yea, Politoed cannot be crippled in one-sitting. Heatran would usually have to Wisp / Toxic or LO Earth Power the 1st Politoed switch-in, and then Magma Storm trap it the 2nd time to cripple it. Heatran may not kill Politoed, but it will certainly cripple it to provide Ninetales an edge in the weather war. Dugtrio is a good partner on offensive teams to finish off Heatran's work.

    shrang brings a good point - you would want something that can take Politoed's attacks. Venusaur @ Lefties can take 2 Rain-boosted HPumps from Scarf Politoed, but SpecsToed would be tricky. Good thing that SpecsToed's usage is declining for some unknown reason :d
  23. RiOdO

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    I personally really like this set. Trapping sets are always fun to me, and since magma storm got a slight buff this gen, it makes it more viable. Awesome.
  24. Conflict

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    Heatrap is a pretty cool set.

    Anyways heres my suggestion:

    Mention the possibility of using Normal Gem Explosion with a Mild nature on this set. If you trap Politoed (defensive ones/Specs) with Magma Storm you can dispose of them with Normal Gem Explosion (does 80%+ upwards uninvested). You just have to find a good EV-Spread that manages to kill Politoed with SR+Magma Storm in Rain+Explosion.

    Thats all.
  25. Harsha

    Harsha
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    Alright I made all of Pocket's changes and I will make sure to mention Toxic stalling less in the writeup. :)

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