He's basically stayed the same. The Ballon is great for him now, seesing as for 1 turn, it gets rid of groung weaknesses.
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Heatran
- Thread starter STEELDRAGON
- Start date
lmitchell0012
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
To say that he counters shanderaa well would be an understatement. Him and snorlax are probably the best counters to shanderaa this generation.
These calcs show how powerful eruption can truely be in the sun:
the calc are all against the same 5 walls: blissey, cresselia, Lugia, Deoxys-D and Umbreon
using trick room helps when using choice specs
so imagine what heatran can do do to pokemon that are NOT EV'ed in HP or SpDef.
also:
that is from a pokemon who resists it AND is EV'ed in HP/SpDef so it is pretty damn strong and has 100% accuracy
Do not get me started on +1 SpAtk Eruptions, Venamoth can use butterfly dance and then BP them to heatran. if you do that:
You can use Life Orb instead of a choice Item
the calc are all against the same 5 walls: blissey, cresselia, Lugia, Deoxys-D and Umbreon
Choice Specs Eruption In the Sun VS 252/252 Blissey: 53.9% - 63.6%
Choice Specs Eruption In the Sun VS 252/252 Cressslia: 89.4% - 105.4%
Choice Specs Eruption In the Sun VS 252/252 Lugia: 83.9% - 99%
Choice Specs Eruption In the Sun VS 252/252 Deoxys-D: 111.5% - 131.6%
Choice Specs Eruption In the Sun VS 252/252 Umbreon: 100.8% - 118.8%
Choice Specs Eruption In the Sun VS 252/252 Cressslia: 89.4% - 105.4%
Choice Specs Eruption In the Sun VS 252/252 Lugia: 83.9% - 99%
Choice Specs Eruption In the Sun VS 252/252 Deoxys-D: 111.5% - 131.6%
Choice Specs Eruption In the Sun VS 252/252 Umbreon: 100.8% - 118.8%
Choice Scarf Eruption In the Sun VS 252/252 Blissey: 36.1% - 42.6%
Choice Scarf Eruption In the Sun VS 252/252 Cressslia: 59.7% - 70.5%
Choice Scarf Eruption In the Sun VS 252/252 Lugia: 55.8% - 65.9%
Choice Scarf Eruption In the Sun VS 252/252 Deoxys-D: 75% - 88.2%
Choice Scarf Eruption In the Sun VS 252/252 Umbreon: 67.3% - 79.4%
Choice Scarf Eruption In the Sun VS 252/252 Cressslia: 59.7% - 70.5%
Choice Scarf Eruption In the Sun VS 252/252 Lugia: 55.8% - 65.9%
Choice Scarf Eruption In the Sun VS 252/252 Deoxys-D: 75% - 88.2%
Choice Scarf Eruption In the Sun VS 252/252 Umbreon: 67.3% - 79.4%
using trick room helps when using choice specs
so imagine what heatran can do do to pokemon that are NOT EV'ed in HP or SpDef.
also:
Choice Scarf Eruption in the Sun VS 4/0 Shanderaa: 80.4% - 94.7%
Choice Specs Eruption in the Sun VS 4/0 Shanderaa: 120.6% - 141.9%
Choice Scarf Eruption in the Sun VS 252/252 Shanderaa: 50.3% - 59.3%
Choice Specs Eruption in the Sun VS 252/252 Shanderaa: 75.5% - 89%
Choice Specs Eruption in the Sun VS 4/0 Shanderaa: 120.6% - 141.9%
Choice Scarf Eruption in the Sun VS 252/252 Shanderaa: 50.3% - 59.3%
Choice Specs Eruption in the Sun VS 252/252 Shanderaa: 75.5% - 89%
that is from a pokemon who resists it AND is EV'ed in HP/SpDef so it is pretty damn strong and has 100% accuracy
Do not get me started on +1 SpAtk Eruptions, Venamoth can use butterfly dance and then BP them to heatran. if you do that:
You can use Life Orb instead of a choice Item
Has anyone remembered SubTran? It functions just like the SubWisp set but instead tries to kill its switchins from the safety of the Sub.
Heatran @Leftovers/Balloon
Timid/Modest | 252SAtk/252Spe/4HP
~Substitute
~Fire Blast/Flamethrower
~Earth Power/Toxic
~Dragon Pulse
The premise of this set is to lure stuff like Hippowdon, Gliscor, Ditto, Heatran, Randorosu and friends and down them with a Fire Blast. Balloon makes the process all the more fun, but I prefer lefties for bulk. Run Timid to outrun Lucario and at least tie with other Heatran, or Modest for sheer power. I think only a Modest Fire Blast is able to kill Gliscor, but my memory may fail me since I've since switched to Timid Flamethrower for reliability. Toxic gives you a way to cripple those bulky waters but with it you lose to Heatran and Ditto.
Heatran @Leftovers/Balloon
Timid/Modest | 252SAtk/252Spe/4HP
~Substitute
~Fire Blast/Flamethrower
~Earth Power/Toxic
~Dragon Pulse
The premise of this set is to lure stuff like Hippowdon, Gliscor, Ditto, Heatran, Randorosu and friends and down them with a Fire Blast. Balloon makes the process all the more fun, but I prefer lefties for bulk. Run Timid to outrun Lucario and at least tie with other Heatran, or Modest for sheer power. I think only a Modest Fire Blast is able to kill Gliscor, but my memory may fail me since I've since switched to Timid Flamethrower for reliability. Toxic gives you a way to cripple those bulky waters but with it you lose to Heatran and Ditto.
Or Tyranitar can come in and ruin your sunny day.
Heatran didn't change much. Balloon is an interesting addition though.
EDIT: Also Quiet Choice Scarf Heatran, how will that ever work? the only time I see Heatran using Eruption is in Trick Room, but even then it's not that great.
why'd you wanna go timid on something with base 77 speed unless you're scarfing it?
i reckon its best set is something like
modest - 252 sp atk/enough speed to outspeed neutral base 80s (how many of those run speed evs?)/rest in hp
then lava plume/earthpower/dragonpulse/sub or wow if lefties, flamecharge if life orb.
i reckon its best set is something like
modest - 252 sp atk/enough speed to outspeed neutral base 80s (how many of those run speed evs?)/rest in hp
then lava plume/earthpower/dragonpulse/sub or wow if lefties, flamecharge if life orb.
Nitro Charge is fun
So, it looks like Heatran is even better than he was in Gen 4. I wonder how long it'll take before he's considered for Ubers, since it's the ultimate anti-everything Pokemon.
The only thing Heatran has been countering for me are other Heatran!
Bulky waters pretty much. In this gen, blissey. Losing baloon ? say hello to EQ everywhere
Roar is an important option to consider as it means Heatran is pretty much a hard counter to Volcarona with Stealth Rock in play, unless it's their last Pokemon. 4x resisting one STAB and being immune to the other is huge, especially if they're running Morning Sun/Chesto Rest and therefore don't have a SE Hidden Power.
If you don't run Roar you're basically setup bait for Volcarona as even 4x resisted +6 Bug Buzz is gonna make a few dents.
The thing about heatran is that everything that counters it are easily worked around. That's what makes heatran a superstar; he can fit into any team and be extremely synergistic.
Earthquake is easily countered by the 250 pokemon in the game that are immune to it. Bulky waters are easily countered as well by reuniclus, whimsicott and a bunch of other anti-stall pokemon. Blissey has gained a couple of ridiculously strong hard counters like conkeldurr and reuniclus that she can't touch while they set up in her fat face.
lmitchell0012
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
He definitely won't be outclassed by shanderaa this generation. Shanderaa may be faster and have higher special attack, but he has more weaknesses than heatran (ghost, dark, and rock).
I use both Chandelure and Heatran on many of my teams. Bring something to kill their Bulky Water, then go crazy!
ive used a timid 4th gen lead heatran with hp ice 70 and a balloon on PO and it actually works great in 5th gen. sometimes your opponent doesnt expect you to have the hidden power and bring in their dragons and then you just ko the dragon with hp ice :D he also can work pretty well with whimsicott if they are locked into will o wisp or something.
My favourite Pokemon ever, good to see that he still rapes ass. This is the set I'm currently using:
Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Will-O-Wisp
Heatran has tons of opportunities to set up Stealth Rock, given it's great typing and good defences. Will-o-wisp is really a quality move on him, burning the likes of Tyranitar, Garchomp and Quagsire before they pop your Air Baloon.
Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Will-O-Wisp
Heatran has tons of opportunities to set up Stealth Rock, given it's great typing and good defences. Will-o-wisp is really a quality move on him, burning the likes of Tyranitar, Garchomp and Quagsire before they pop your Air Baloon.
lmitchell0012
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
Swampert isn't as prominent this gen, so it seems like hp ice is the way to go with this guy. The only other HP choice I'd consider is HP electric if gyarados is causing you problems.
Another decent option might be running Lava Plume and then another support move or coverage move. That way you get the burn chance but don't have to sacrifice a valuable slot for it.
So I'm looking into using a Magma Storm trap set and was wondering if speed or defenses worked better?I saw a video where AcousticKind swears by max speed to Sub quicker but I was wondering if a bulkier spread would work better.Anybody have some experience with it?
Heatran @ Leftovers
- Magma Storm
- Substitute
- Protect
- Toxic
Heatran @ Leftovers
- Magma Storm
- Substitute
- Protect
- Toxic
@Dragon Rider: I had a huge post written up but I accidentally refreshed the page and deleted it :(
w/e, I'll try to summarize what I had, it was probably too long anyway
On Heatran's speed (for the trapping set mostly):
188 Spe outruns neutral uninvested base 100s, and that's about as far as you should bother going. Adding more speed than that would accomplish beating:
tl;dr 188 Spe is a good benchmark.
The 320 remaining EVs can be split 72 HP / 248 SDef for maximum special bulk, but 192 HP / 128 SDef is a 1.8% loss of special bulk for an 8.1% gain in physical bulk, and is very efficient as well - it hits an SDef jump point, works well with leftovers recovery, and isnt bad against stealth rock
===
I don't want to rewrite everything q_q
ill save the rest for tomorrow, just know that 192 HP / 128 SDef / 188 Spe Calm is a solid EV spread
w/e, I'll try to summarize what I had, it was probably too long anyway
On Heatran's speed (for the trapping set mostly):
188 Spe outruns neutral uninvested base 100s, and that's about as far as you should bother going. Adding more speed than that would accomplish beating:
- uninvested base 101+ pokes (nonexistent)
- base 80+ running some speed (very few, one notable exception being gliscor, but why are you staying in on gliscor?)
- +nature base 60 and neutral base 70 running max speed (again, few important things; a notable exception is Specstoed, which you only need 12 more EVs to outrun, but the whole 'getting OHKOed' thing ruins the point of the set...however, the Tran set I ran can play around Choice sets if necessary, thanks to a few tweaks)
tl;dr 188 Spe is a good benchmark.
The 320 remaining EVs can be split 72 HP / 248 SDef for maximum special bulk, but 192 HP / 128 SDef is a 1.8% loss of special bulk for an 8.1% gain in physical bulk, and is very efficient as well - it hits an SDef jump point, works well with leftovers recovery, and isnt bad against stealth rock
===
I don't want to rewrite everything q_q
ill save the rest for tomorrow, just know that 192 HP / 128 SDef / 188 Spe Calm is a solid EV spread
Heatran can 1HKO Gliscor with HP ice, thats a good enough reason for me.
Thanks for the input.That is looking good so I think I will try that.
One more question.Would it be worth replacing Toxic with Will-O-Wisp if going Sp.Def route?The Burn damage might not get as high as Toxic (especially since the point is they can't switch) but it does add 12% residual and helps against physical attackers who then might not be able to break the Sub in a single hit.When you have 12% burn+1/16 Magma Storm+possible Sandstorm/Hail they should still go down fairly rapidly correct?Or is Toxic just to valuable to the set?
Again thanks for the helpful input.Much appreciated.