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Heracross (QC 2/2) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Lucien Lachance, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. Lucien Lachance

    Lucien Lachance

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    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>While Heracross is often overlooked; it has several advantages over other common Pokemon that enable it to function well in the VGC 2012 metagame. With its excellent Bug / Fighting typing, Heracross can hit several top threats, such as Terrakion, Cresselia, and Tyranitar, for super effective damage. Thanks to its terrific base 125 Attack stat, which can be further boosted by its fantastic ability Guts, Heracross can dispose of opposing Pokemon with ease. With decent base 80 / 75 / 95 defenses, Heracross can also take a hit or two before going down. Due to its average base 85 Speed, Heracross benefits greatly from Tailwind, Trick Room, and Thunder Wave or Icy Wind support, all of which allow it to get the jump on faster threats. Heracross isn't the perfect Pokemon, however; it is plagued with weaknesses to Fire-, Flying-, and Psychic-type moves, all of which are commonly used in the VGC metagame. Despite its faults, Heracross flourishes with proper team support, and is able to fit onto any team with ease.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Guts
    move 1: Megahorn
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: Rock Slide / Earthquake / Facade
    move 4: Protect
    item: Flame Orb / Toxic Orb
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes advantage of common type weaknesses to demolish the opponents's team through hard-hitting moves. After a Guts boost, Heracross's Attack stat is boosted to unimaginable levels, which allows it to destroy common threats, such as Cresselia, Tyranitar, and Politoed, amongst others. Megahorn easily destroys Cresselia and Amoonguss, two Pokemon that are commonly seen in VGC. Megahorn also hits Ludicolo for super effective damage, but Heracross takes a lot of damage from Scald or Surf in the rain. Fighting-type moves are notorious for their super effective coverage; indeed, Heracross's STAB Close Combat KOes many Pokemon with ease, and hits even Pokemon who are neutral to it for large amounts of damage as well.</p>

    <p>Your choice of third move depends on what coverage move benefits your team most. Rock Slide and Earthquake are good spread moves, and hit a good portion of the metagame super effectively. Rock Slide helps Heracross against Flying-types, doesn't harm its ally, and hits Shedinja, while Earthquake works well with most of Heracross's recommended teammates, and hits a lot of the metagame for significant amounts of damage. Facade hits almost everything for neutral damage and, after a Guts boost, its Base Power doubles to a cool 140. Protect is a crucial move in VGC; it shields Heracross from a potentially fatal attack and activates Guts.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The choice between Flame Orb and Toxic Orb is not very important. Toxic Orb does less damage over short periods of time, but battles tend to last longer than before so Flame Orb is typically the superior item. While unlikely, Toxic Orb prevents Heracross's Attack from being halved if its ability were to be switched. An Adamant nature lets Heracross Speed tie with other neutral base 85s, while a Jolly one enables it to get the jump on all neutral Krookodile, Lucario, and Rotom formes, Excadrill out of sand, as well as Speed tie with neutral Hydreigon.</p>

    <p>Suicune and Aerodactyl make for great Tailwind partners as both deal with a few counters to Heracross, namely Fire- and Flying-types. Tornadus, Salamence, and Crobat also make for good Tailwind partners. If you'd rather provide Heracross with Thunder Wave support, Pokemon such as Thundurus, Togekiss, Rotom-W, and Cresselia are great partners. Thundurus destroys Flying-types, Togekiss draws in potentially threatening attacks with Follow Me, Rotom-W threatens Fire-types, and Cresselia makes for an excellent all-round support Pokemon. Starmie is faster than all of the Dragon-types and rains on their parade with Ice Beam. Mamoswine is very useful for checking both Dragon-types and Zapdos, both of which are common checks to Heracross. Ninetales and Politoed also make for good teammates, as they can remove hail and sand, and put pressure on Fire-types. Furthermore, Politoed can use Ice Beam to deal respectable damage to Zapdos and other Flying-types.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A more defensive spread of 252 HP / 68 Atk / 4 Def / 172 SpD / 12 Spe capitalizes on Heracross's decent bulk. Specifically, this Heracross survives a Dragon Gem-boosted Draco Meteor from Latios and two Heat Waves from Zapdos, and can do massive damage to Cresselia with a Bug Gem-boosted Megahorn. Feint can negate the opponents' Protect, but the loss of a coverage move hurts Heracross greatly. Aerial Ace gains some useful coverage, but its Base Power is too low to be usable. Smack Down, when used in conjunction with either an Earthquake user or Earthquake on Heracross, is feasible, but forces Heracross to Protect often (this only refers to if hera's partner is using EQ though?), and wastes its Guts ability. Night Slash hits Ghost-types, but has overlapping coverage with Megahorn. If Heracross's partner can activate Guts, Heracross can use another item, such as a Bug Gem, but the set-up is difficult to accomplish consistently. Stone Edge hits Zapdos harder than Rock Slide does, but one crucial miss can lose you a game, and the fact that Rock Slide is a spread move with a flinch chance is too good to pass up on. A Choice Scarf lets Heracross outpace faster threats, but being locked into a move and losing Guts far outweighs the advantages of the extra Speed.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Zapdos outspeeds Heracross, can KO with both Heat Wave and Hidden Power Flying, resists both its STABs, and only fears Rock Slide. Acrobatics users (such as?) can dispatch of Heracross with ease, as most are faster than it. Chandelure can utilize Heat Wave and often caries a Focus Sash, and therefore makes for a decent check to Heracross. Infernape outspeeds Heracross and can easily KO it with its Fire-type move of choice, or even Encore Heracross's Protect. Salamence and Dragonite outrun Heracross, wall most of its attacks, and can use a Fire-type move or Hidden Power Flying to KO Heracross. Latios also outspeeds and can use its STAB Psychic to KO Heracross.</p>

    [Unreleased]

    <p>Heracross receives Moxie from the Dream World. When utilizing a Choice Scarf, Heracross outspeeds key threats, such as Latios, Terrakion, Thundurus and others, and retains most of its hard-hitting power. While a Moxie set has lots of potential, the main set is more effective overall as it is less weak to Speed-lowering moves such as Icy Wind, Tailwind, and Trick Room, and also boasts more power.</p>
  2. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
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    Looks pretty good so far. One change here:
    -Heracross has base 85 Speed, so you may want to fix that in the AC

    Also, I've personally used a specially defensive Heracross with decent success in the Wi-Fi tourney, not sure if something like this actually deserves a separate set mention though:

    Heracross @ Bug Gem
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 HP / 68 Atk / 4 Def / 172 SDef / 12 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Megahorn
    - Close Combat
    - Feint
    - Protect

    The HP and Special Defense allows Heracross to take a Gem Draco Meteor from Latios. Which in turn means that it can survive a Psychic, and can take 2 Heat Waves from Zapdos. Gem Megahorn does tremendous damage to Cresselia though due to the lack of attack investment they can still survive if they have some defensive investment. Feint makes up for the lack of speed, and breaking protects and finishing off targets.

    It does not like Psyshock, which bypasses its special defenses which I found some Japanese players used to counter my Heracross in the tourney.
  3. Lucien Lachance

    Lucien Lachance

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    Changed that goof.

    I put the EVs in AC.
  4. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
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    One concern I have with that is that when you use a status orb with something like that: it goes from you barely surviving due to your EVs, to barely surviving due to your EVs and dying to burn/poison immediately afterwards. So I'd put it with the part in the OO where you talk about the non-orbed Heracross.
  5. Lucien Lachance

    Lucien Lachance

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    Good point. It was rather late when I did that.
  6. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I would mention having a Rain Dancer / Sunny Day summoner / Politoed / Ninetales, as potential teammates, since Heracross does not enjoy the residual damage from Sand / Hail in combination with Burn / Posion. Heracross also provides some effective complentary physical offense to break past Ferrothorn, Gastrodon, Amoonguss for Rain teams, and Heatran for Sun teams.
  7. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

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    Salamence, Zapdos, Thundurus, Tornadus, and really anything with a Special-based STAB Flying attack will pretty much OHKO, even if it's just Hidden Power; they all usually outspeed Heracross as well. For that reason a Coba Berry could be mentioned in OO, though a Bug Gem or Orb is usually better.

    Mention that Heracross is one of the few solid checks to Ludicolo, as a Guts-boosted Megahorn is going to OHKO even the most physically bulky Ludicolo, though a rain-boosted Scald is still going to hurt in return.
  8. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
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    Considering that Nickscor won the Pleasanton regional with R Inanimate's set, it probably should be listed as a set.
  9. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    yea, Heracross certainly has usable special defense to run a defensive set, and it doesn't need Guts activated to power through things with its powerful Dual STAB (especially coupled with a Gem).

    EDIT: I think an AC mention of Sitrus Berry is suitable on a defensive set such as this.
  10. Cassie

    Cassie giant claw

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    I think you should mention Scarf Heracross in OO. I've used it on PO with lots of success, it does fine without the Guts boost. It still OHKOs the Latis, Tyranitar, etc and it's not very predictable.
  11. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
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    Ctrl+F = Choice Scarf, no results D:

    With Choice Scarf, Heracross can easily get the jump on Pokemon such as Latios, Latias, Infernape gain surprise KOs
  12. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

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    I think there's enough support for a Choice Scarf Heracross :p

    Heracross @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Guts
    Nature: Adamant
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    -Megahorn
    -Close Combat
    -Rock Slide
    -Earthquake/Night Slash/Aerial Ace

    Pretty much perfect coverage, nothing off the top of my head resists the first three moves, and the fourth move is flexible (I'm not sure which is the best 4th move). Even with an Adamant nature, Heracross will outspeed positive-natured base 130s, and up to choiced base 70s (notably Metagross or Politoed).

    *edit* Nidoking and Toxicroak resist the first three moves, so Earthquake will hit them hard. Bulky ghosts won't take much damage from the first three, so Night Slash will hit them. Aerial Ace can be moved to other options, but it is notable in that it will OHKO rival Heracross even without a Guts boost, and inflict extreme damage on Breloom and Virizion.
  13. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
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    ^ Why Aeiral Ace? I Would keep Night Slash to hit Ghosts, and EQ for Pokemon such as Toxicroak and the Nino's. AA is just about useless, other than hitting Virizion and Breloom I guess
  14. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

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    AA can go into Other Options, but sometimes it's nice to have a perfect accuracy move. Also it will OHKO rival Heracross (without a Guts boost even), who is at-best 2HKOed by the first three moves.
  15. Solace

    Solace swing from the chandelier
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    Being Choice locked into Aerial Ace doesn't sound like a good deal for the OHKO on a rival Heracross. I'd put it in OO I guess, but it's not really one of Heracross's best options.
  16. Lucien Lachance

    Lucien Lachance

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    So lets see if I got everything...

    Mentioned Politoed / Ninetales in Teammates.

    Explained HP Flying better.

    Expanded on checking Ludicolo.

    Put Scarf in OO.

    Did I miss anything?
  17. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I would actually not downplay Moxie - at least for the non status Orb set. Without status orb, Guts becomes much more situational. The defensive set can certainly absorb T-Waves to receive an Atk boost, but otherwise Moxie would readily provides the Atk boost. The Scarf set especially would probably benefit more from Moxie, seeing how it doesn't have any boosting items to increase its damage output. Shame it's unreleased.
  18. bluemon

    bluemon

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    isnt moxie unrleleased?

    also, include facade in OO

    edit: nvm. its already there.

    mention sleep talk for sure
  19. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

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    Unfortunately, Moxie Heracross is unreleased. However Pocket does make good points about Moxie when it is ultimately released.
  20. Lucien Lachance

    Lucien Lachance

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    Added in the Moxie stuff.

    Not mentioning Sleep Talk because it would be useless since it's always going to be burnt or poisoned.
  21. Explorer

    Explorer

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    Any Fire STAB on a Pokemon that can outspend Heracross can destroy it as long as it can either OHKO or avoid Earthquake and Stone Edge. In some cases non-STAB Fire-type moves can work. Also, the rare Disable user can destroy Choice sets, while the gimmicky Gastro Acid is probably the best non offensive way to counter Heracross.
  22. Lucien Lachance

    Lucien Lachance

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    Because Scarf is in OO, I'm not gonna clutter Counters with Disable.
    Gastro Acid won't get a mention either since the only purpose would be to counter Guts users and Levitate on Rotom-H and -W.

    Fire mons are already mentioned.
  23. Solace

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    this has been the best for heracross as i've seen!

    QC 1/2
  24. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
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    Although it's sort of obvious from some of the Pokemon stated in the counters, it should probably be mentioned that in general Heracross has a tough time against to Flying, Ghost, and Poison type Pokemon, as they resist(or Immune for gohsts) both of Heracross's main STAB moves. While stuff like Rock Slide, Night Slash, or Earthquake can help it do some damage here, it can only hit one of the three types properly due to lack of move space.

    After that, QC 2/2
    get this written up.
  25. SkullCandy

    SkullCandy She Bangs The Drums
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    gp check (open)

    [Overview]
    <space>
    <p>While Heracross is often overlooked, Heracross has many strong points to boast when looking for a team it has several advantages over other common Pokemon that enable it to function well in the VGC 2012 metagame. With an excellent Bug / Fighting-typing (remove hyphen), Heracross can hit several top threats, such as Terrakion, Cresselia, (add comma) and Tyranitar for super effective damage. Boasting a terrific base 125 Attack stat, which is only further boosted by its fantastic ability Guts, Heracross can easily dispatch of the opposing team Pokemon with ease. With decent base 80 / 75 / 95 defenses, Heracross can also take a hit or two before ultimately going down. With its average base 85 Speed, Heracross benefits greatly from Tailwind, Trick Room, (add comma) and Thunder Wave or Icy Wind support, all of which allow it to get the jump on faster threats. Heracross isn't the perfect Pokemon, (add comma) however, Heracross it is plagued with a weakness to Fire-, Flying-, and Psychic-type moves, all of which are commonly used in the VGC metagame. Even with its faults, with proper team support Heracross can flourish and should be able to find its way onto any team easily.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Guts Abuse
    move 1: Megahorn
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: Rock Slide / Earthquake / Facade
    move 4: Protect
    item: Flame Orb / Toxic Orb
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set aims to demolish the opponents team through hard-hitting moves and abusing common type-weaknesses. After a Guts boost, Heracross's attack stat is boosted to unreal unimaginable levels, allowing it to destroy common threats (such as?). Megahorn can easily dispatches of the omnipresent Cresselia and Amoonguss. Ludicolo is also hit for super effective damage by Megahorn, but a Scald from Ludicolo hurts Heracross Heracross takes a lot of damage from Scald in the rain (Heracross doesn't care about burn and an unboosted Scald wouldn't do much thanks to its good Special Defense). Fighting-type moves are notorious for hitting large amounts of Pokemon for super effective damage, and Heracross's STAB Close Combat KOs those Pokemon with ease and smacks Pokemon who are neutral to it as well. The third move depends mostly on Heracross's team. Rock Slide and Earthquake are good spread moves for most teams. Rock Slide helps amend for its Flying-type weakness, doesn't harm its ally, and hits Shedinja. Earthquake work well with most of Heracross's recommended teammates, as well as smashing a large amount of the metagame. After a Guts boost, Facade becomes a cool 140 base power which hits most everything for neutral damage. Protect is a crucial move in VGC, shielding Heracross from a potential fatal attack and activating Heracross's Guts. The choice between Flame Orb and Toxic Orb is moot. Toxic Orb does less damage over short periods of time, but the length of battles is much longer than before so Flame Orb is typically the superior item. While unlikely, Toxic Orb prevents Heracross's attack to be halfed halved if its ability were to be switched.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>An Adamant nature ties with other neutral Base 85s while Jolly gets the jump on neutral Krookodile, neutral Lucario, neutral Rotom formes, Excadrill out of sand, as well as tying with neutral Hydreigon. Suicune and Aerodactyl make great Tailwind partnets as both deal with a few counters to Heracross. Tornadus, Salamence and Crobat also make good Tailwind partners. If Thunder Wave is more appealing than Tailwind, Pokemon such as Thundurus, Togekiss, Rotom-W and Cresselia are great partners. Thundurus dispatches of Flying-types, Togekiss draws in potentially threatening attacks, Rotom-W threatens Fire-types, while Cresselia is overall good support. Starmie is faster than all of the Dragon-types and rains on their parade with Ice Beam. Mamoswine is very useful for checking both Dragons and Zapdos. Ninetales and Politoed also make good teammates, removing Hail or Sand as well as removing some counters to Heracross.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>To utilize Heracross's decent bulk, a more defensive set with 252 HP / 68 Atk / 4 Def / 172 SDef SpD / 12 Spe, allowing Heracross to survive a Dragon Gem boosted Draco Meteor from Latios, two Heat Waves from Zapdos, as well as doing massive damage to Cresselia with a Bug Gem boosted Megahorn. Feint can negate the opponents Protects, but losing out on a coverage move hurts Heracross greatly. Aerial Ace gains some useful coverage, but its power is too low to be usable. Knock down when used in conjunction with an Earthquake user can be feasible but forces Heracross to protect often, wasting its Guts ability. Night Slash hits Ghost-types, but has overlapping coverage Megahorn more often than not. If you're partner can activate Guts, using another item, such as a Bug Gem, can be usable, but the set-up is difficult to accomplish consistently. Stone Edge can be used to hit Zapdos harder than Rock Slide, but one crucial miss can lose you a game. Utilizing a Choice Scarf lets Heracross outpace faster threats, but being locked into a move and losing guts far outweighs the speed gained.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Zapdos outpaces Heracross, can KO with both Heat Wave and Hidden Power Flying, resists both STABs, and only fears Rock Slide. Acrobatics users can dispatch of Heracross with ease. Chandelure can utilize Heat Wave with ease and often caries a Focus Sash. Infernape outpaces and can easily KO with its Fire-type move of choice. Salamence and Dragonite outpace, walls most attacks and can use a Fire-type move or Hidden Power Flying to KO Heracross. Latios also outpaces and can use its STAB Psychic to remove Heracross.</p>

    [Unreleased]

    <p>A Moxie set with a Choice Scarf or with a Defensive EV spread would warrant use, but Guts is far superior to Moxie.</p>


    This had a lot of problems. The formatting was wrong, words were missed out altogether, some sentences were too short (and some way too long), a lot of commonly used phrases and words were misspelled, and there were a lot of mistakes that could have been solved just by looking at this thread.

    Implement my changes so far, make the [Unreleased] section bigger, and re-read the whole analysis carefully to make sure that there aren't any more silly errors, then I'll finish GPing this.

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