Heracross

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by AuraRayquaza, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. AuraRayquaza

    AuraRayquaza

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    [​IMG]

    80 HP / 125 Atk / 75 Def / 40 SpA / 95 SpD / 85 Spe

    Heracross lives right down in the UU tier, but has also got a firm niche in the Ubers tier as well, as it is one of the very few Darkrai counters in the tier. Heracross's base attack stat is good in the ubers tier and can work quite well when KO'ing pokemon. Bug and fighting is weak to flying, psychic and fire, the latter of which is the only one commonly seen. But thats why there are 6 slots in a party right? His typing is also and excellent offensive one as his STABs cover many pokemon in the ubers tier for neutral damage bar Ho-Oh, Giratina, Rayquaza and Thundurus.

    However, there are some downsides to Heracross. His mediocre defenses, hp and speed make him very vulnerable to faster ubers, like scarfed kyogre or arceus, as they can outspeed and can fairly easily 1HKO Heracross with a powerful move. However, this does not mean Heracross is a bad pokemon, it has a great niche as a Darkrai counter and if you know how to use Heracross, he will be a great addition to any team.

    Without further ado, some sets!

    I Kill You Darkrai! (Revenge Killer/Darkrai counter)
    [​IMG]

    Heracross @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpAtk)
    -Close Combat
    -Megahorn
    -Stone Edge/Night Slash
    -Sleep Talk

    This set makes Heracross single-handedly the best Darkrai counter in the ubers tier. The aim is, start off with Heracross and if they lead off with Darkrai, hit them hard with CC or Megahorn. If not, then come in on the Dark Void from Darkrai and sleep talk for a 66% chance to OHKO Darkrai (bar sashed ones). SE and NS are for coverage, depending on who you want to hit, SE for Thundurus, Rayquaza and Ho-Oh or NS for Giratina and Arceus-Ghost. Sleep Talk is the main idea of the set, this adds unpredictability and can potentially net a KO on a Darkrai trying to set up. Moxie is there to increase the power of each attack you make every time you KO a pokemon.

    This is the only set I've come up with for ubers. Anymore sets would be great and if you could test them that would be better. Thanks.
  2. Iceydude168

    Iceydude168

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    Guts is usually the superior ability since with Giratina around you won't really be sweeping through teams with Heracross. You could slash Rest so Heracross can get Guts boost and recover some HP
  3. Theorymon

    Theorymon Watch The Space
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    This might seem odd, but something I sometimes like to do is actually use Pursuit Scarf Heracross with Tickle Wobbuffet. The nice thing Heracross has over other Pursuiters is that it doesn't care about Giratina's Will-O-Wisp at all! It also helps that Heracross can revenge those pesky Darkrai, Latias, Latios, the Kyurems, and Mewtwo! However when I usually use Pursuit... there is one thing that annoys me. When Sleep Talk choose Pursuit vs Darkrai, that's pretty bad news... so often I just put Stone Edge on this kind of Heracross instead because I'd rather kill Ho-Oh. Sleep Talk is still a good option on other Heracross though!

    As for Moixe... I do want to test this out, though I'm skeptical of it because Heracross loves guts SO much, and for one other reason: Salamence. The reason Scarf Salamence works is because Outrage is only resisted by Steels. You got a lot more stuff resisitng Close Combat and Megahorn, so I just can't see it sweeping a lot... however, it could be have its uses, so I'm not gonna reject it yet!
  4. AuraRayquaza

    AuraRayquaza

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    If you could post a set i would be happy to test it and add it to the OP.
  5. ssbbm

    ssbbm

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    probably

    scarf
    guts
    adamant
    252atk/252spd
    cc
    megahorn
    pursuit
    stone edge / sleep talk
  6. jackm

    jackm

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    You need to run Sleep Talk or you're screwed upon switching into Dark Void.
  7. mtr

    mtr

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    SubDarkrai can still play around Heracross by using Substitute as Heracross comes in, hitting it, and switching out. Given that I'd rather use another Scarfer.
  8. Theorymon

    Theorymon Watch The Space
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    While Sub Darkrai can play around Heracross, plenty of people use Focus Blast, plus Megahorning Mewtwo and Latias is still pretty huge imo!
  9. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    I think Heracross just got owned by Genesect. Genesect revenges Darkrai, Lati@s, and Mewtwo a lot better than Heracross thanks to U-turn, and basically the only thing Heracross has over Genesect is STAB Close Combat. Getting yourself locked into Megahorn is just calling Ho-oh, Rayquaza, and Ghost Arceus to set up all over your face. Genesect's typing is also slightly better, thanks to the resistances to Dragon, Ghost and Ice.
  10. preserve

    preserve

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    I feel like having sleep talk while being choiced can be risky. If you really want to prevent Darkrai from setting up, I think a Lum or Chesto berry is the better option.
  11. Splendiferous

    Splendiferous

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    The whole point of sleep talk with guts is that darkrai has no moves to KO you with and you have a +1 cc/megahorn/stone edge to fire off, plus you're faster with scarf.
  12. preserve

    preserve

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    But then, there's no point in having sleep talk if your faster when you will most likely one hit kill Darkrai with a Close Combat without a boost. The only way Darkrai will survive if you have the lowest possible attack stat with Heracross and your facing a defensive darkrai, which is very uncommon.
  13. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    No, you're missing the point. Because Heracross can switch into Darkrai reliably as it resists it's two common moves, Dark Pulse and Focus Blast, it must have a way to hit Darkrai if put to sleep. Because Sleep Talk chooses the rest 3 moves, Heracross will have a 100% chance to hit with a move that is backed up by Guts. Moreover, Heracross has 2/3rd chance to hit Darkrai with its super effective STABs.
  14. preserve

    preserve

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    I understand that, but if Heracross is faster, he won't need to worry about being put to sleep. He can just one hit kill Darkrai before being put to sleep. According to the damage calculations, even a hindering nature for attack with 31 IV and 252 EV's on Heracross does 133.1%-158% damage to the standard Darkrai. The only darkrai that has a chance to survive one hit is a defensive one, but only if the heracross has a hindering nature in attack with a 94%-111% damage outpoint. These are all without a boost. Point is, most of the time a faster heracross will one-hit kill Darkrai so a sleep talk isn't really needed and is really risky to lock yourself into if you're being choiced.
  15. JGSabino

    JGSabino

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    Most Darkrais will use Dark Void on the switch, it doesn't matter how fast you are. You can't be expecting that Heracross will always be on the field waiting for Darkrai.
  16. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    What. Heracross switched into Darkrai, in order to wreck it with its STABs. Darkrai used Dark Void! GG Heracross.
  17. Splendiferous

    Splendiferous

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    You're meant to switch in to absorb the dark void and use sleep talk. Though now that there's team preview, anyone with a darkrai would probably double switch or sub if they have it.
  18. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    Actually Heracross isnt too good now tbh. Me and trickroom went about testing it a while ago during bw2 and Scarf was pretty bad. The only reason to even use Heracross over a better Fighting type like Terrakion is solely for Darkrai. If your opponent doesn't have a Darkrai, Heracross is pretty much dead weight on your team and its not like Darkrai is everywhere anyway. Secondly, Heracross as a scarfer is much more limited than Terrakion who can punch holes everywhere and check ExtremeKiller. Lastly, with bw2, the role of the premier bug scarfer is now taken by Genesect which can check Darkrai / Mewtwo much easier as compared to Heracross.
  19. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    The only thing that Heracross has over Mewtwo is the ability to defeat Mewtwo and Darkrai at the same time, and if you're using Guts, an immunity to burn. That's it. But again, Genesect is million times better as a Choice Scarf user because it too can defeat both Mewtwo and Darkrai while also scouting with U-turn. +1 U-turn also hits fairly hard; max Attack does 57.01% minimum to 4/0 Kyogre, for example.
  20. trickroom

    trickroom
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    I can agree to this. I did test Heracross however it proved itself to be pretty underwhelming. For those wondering, I was testing Heracross on Classic Stall team, consisting of Groudon, Blissey, Lugia, SpD Giratina, Forretress and Heracross. Classic Stall was really weak to Darkrai, Dark Arceus and Steel Arceus so I figured out it was a good idea to add in Heracross.

    However, I found Heracross to always get walled and forced out by many things. Things like Giratina-O gets a free switch in on you, Ho-Oh only fears Stone Edge and bad news is Heracross has to compete with Terrakion. Megahorn is a big advantage but it also gets walled by quite a bit of things such as Forretress, Giratina, Dialga, Ho-Oh, Rayquaza and several others. Heracross also fails to outspeed +1 Rayquaza or revenge kill Extremekiller Arceus sadly.

    It's not all bad however, I just love it when Heracross is poisoned or burn. With Guts, Heracross suddenly becomes very powerful, +1 Megahorn will 2HKO even Bold Kyogre and nearly 2HKOes Impish Groudon. Walling Darkrai is awesome and Sleep Talk + Guts make it unique so I don't think Moxie is the better ability. Close Combat is huge over Genesect because you get to OHKO Ferrothorn and Dialga, while Megahorn ( OHKO any Mewtwo, Latias, 85% of the time ) is something Terrakion lacks.

    Anyway, with Genesect, Terrakion and even Blaziken running around, Heracross might just fall out of usage eventually. At least Heracross is not as horrible as Lucario though but please Heracross really needs a Choice Scarf to work in Ubers in my opinion.
  21. Tavald

    Tavald

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    I just won a game against my brother thanks to this heracross.
    Just switch on dark void and profit.
    I think he will change his darkrai now.
  22. Splendiferous

    Splendiferous

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    Problem with heracross is that he doesn't really do anything apart from countering darkrai. If your opponent doesn't have one then you're better off with any other scarfer.
  23. xRedx

    xRedx

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    most of the time it's 66% chance to kill darkrai which isn't a counter but a dice roll
  24. Kibago

    Kibago

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    haven't really played much Ubers this gen, but I'm curious - since the only Hera justification over Terra/Genesect is the Darkrai countering, would Sleep Talk/Megahorn/Close Combat with no 4th move be worth considering, to guarantee Sleep Talk picks STAB? i don't think I'd want to be locked in on a non-STAB Stone Edge/Night Slash anyway.

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