dialganet
Banned deucer.
Absolutely not. Arm thrust has mantained his 15 BP per hit, so 15*5=75. It's as strong as brick break. CC sits confortably at 120.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon Heracross
- Thread starter PK Gaming
- Start date
- Status
Oh wow that is terrible then I was hoping it would be better. Is that stab included?
dialganet
Banned deucer.
I have been wanting to make a Baton Pass based team using Mega Heracross as the receiver.
My plans is to set up some entry hazards and then use Rapid Spin.
After the Rapid Spin I send out a Baton Pass Speed Boost Ninjask with Agility instead of Swords Dance (To get speed as fast as possible to minimize being set up on).
The Ninjask uses Baton Pass and all the speed goes to Smeargle who will use Spore. While the enemy is Asleep he will Belly Drum and then Baton Pass to Heracross.
Heracross will Mega Evolve and sweep using his Skill Link coverage moves.
I am afraid of Gale Wing Talonflame's Brave Bird and Mega Pinsir's Quick Attack.
After calculations, if I manage to Baton Pass a Cotton Guard (Using Smeargle) I can play around with the Nature/EVs to surive either of the priority Flying moves (Including an Adamant Choice Banded Talonflame with 252 Attack EV)
Is it worth it to have Cotton Guard as the fourth move on my Smeargle and invest so much in physical durability in case I get to battle a Pinsir/Talonflame?
My plans is to set up some entry hazards and then use Rapid Spin.
After the Rapid Spin I send out a Baton Pass Speed Boost Ninjask with Agility instead of Swords Dance (To get speed as fast as possible to minimize being set up on).
The Ninjask uses Baton Pass and all the speed goes to Smeargle who will use Spore. While the enemy is Asleep he will Belly Drum and then Baton Pass to Heracross.
Heracross will Mega Evolve and sweep using his Skill Link coverage moves.
I am afraid of Gale Wing Talonflame's Brave Bird and Mega Pinsir's Quick Attack.
After calculations, if I manage to Baton Pass a Cotton Guard (Using Smeargle) I can play around with the Nature/EVs to surive either of the priority Flying moves (Including an Adamant Choice Banded Talonflame with 252 Attack EV)
Is it worth it to have Cotton Guard as the fourth move on my Smeargle and invest so much in physical durability in case I get to battle a Pinsir/Talonflame?
If they have a Pinsir or Talonflame, then you'll probably being doing well to get to the final stage anyway, since they can always just lead with either of them to stop Ninjask/Scolipede from being able to pass any boosts, unless you put a Sash and Rock Slide on Scolipede to bait and remove those annoyances so your team can do its job properly from then on. Passing a Substitute to the final recipient is also a pretty commonly employed thing to stop it from being easily revenged, as it at least forces the opponent to sacrifice a pokemon or two so that the revenger has a clear shot.
Speaking of Baton Pass, I was actually just thinking about how Heracross is a fairly decent way to stop dedicated BP teams from getting the ball rolling, by Rock Blasting or Pin Missiling through Scoli's and Smeargle's Sashes. Only problem is that he has to run Jolly and rely on a speed tie to beat Smeargle, which is sorta bad, and Scoli can sneak in an Iron Defence before the Rock Blast to prevent the 1HKO (although I think if there's even 1 crit among the five, you might have a chance at 1 shotting it). Still, he's probably one of the better things out there for doing this, which is a plus for him.
Speaking of Baton Pass, I was actually just thinking about how Heracross is a fairly decent way to stop dedicated BP teams from getting the ball rolling, by Rock Blasting or Pin Missiling through Scoli's and Smeargle's Sashes. Only problem is that he has to run Jolly and rely on a speed tie to beat Smeargle, which is sorta bad, and Scoli can sneak in an Iron Defence before the Rock Blast to prevent the 1HKO (although I think if there's even 1 crit among the five, you might have a chance at 1 shotting it). Still, he's probably one of the better things out there for doing this, which is a plus for him.
Keep it short and simple if you're going to BP to Heracross. Don't stack up on the Fire and Flying weaknesses, Ninjask is horribly outclassed by Scolipede and Scolipede and Heracross share common weaknesses. I'd recommend Vaporeon or Gorebyss. Vaporeon can pass Acid Armor as well as Wish to ensure Heracross comes in healthy, and Vaporeon doesn't fear Fire moves. Gorebyss can BP Shell Smash, which is everything Mega Heracross could ask for, but Gorebyss can also throw up Reflect, Iron Defense and use Scald to threaten Talonflame or burn Pinsir. Gliscor can BP Agility/Swords Dance and can absorb status aimed at him. And finally Mew has the unique ability to pass Bulk Ups, one of the better boosts for Heracross to get.
Thank you for answering me! I'll need some time to rework my team, haha.
I don't see the point in running close combat instead of arm thrust. Sure CC is more powerful but since with this mega Heracross has got very good bulk lowering it seems a bit counterproductive imo. I think the loss of power is worth the increase in longevity, adding to it the always nice utility of breaking shashes and subs.
The loss of power is *massive*, though. I don't see how you can justify dropping from 120 BP to 75 BP on a Pokémon designed to bust open walls and defensive mons. An obvious example:
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 162-192 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Arm Thrust (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 105-125 (31.4 - 37.4%) -- approx. 47% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Arm Thrust is literally weaker than Rock Blast on Skarmory, lol. Heracross is an incredibly easy Pokémon to revenge kill thanks to its low speed so lowering your own defenses isn't that big a deal, you're almost always going to be switching out or saccing MegaHera after he gets a KO.
For a wall breaker role CC works fine and is indeed needed for a few tough mon to get 2HKOs like Skarmory and Conkeldurr for example. That being said if you are in it for the long hall with him and intend to pass to him or use Swords Dance/Bulk Up then Earthquake/Pin Missile/Rock Blast gives you all the coverage you need for basically everything into the game, and EQ is necessary for Aegeslash anyway. Heracross is bulky enough that the defense drops really can make him fall faster than he needs to, but CC really is his only viable Fighting move.
Mega-Heracross is my favorite mega evolution, simply because of it's massive attack stat, ability and movepool. With a shift gear baton pass from Smeargle or a baton pass from a Scolipede, the only thing that can stop this massive powerhouse is a Talonflame. Thus, Rotom-W is a quite good team member for Megacross.
A little investment in Speed and the rest in HP isn't worth to outspeed WoW Rotom-W (defensive) and kill it? Like this:
Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pin Missile
- Arm Thrust / Close Combat
- Rock Blast
- Bullet Seed
or
Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pin Missile
- Arm Thrust / Close Combat
- Rock Blast
- Bullet Seed
Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pin Missile
- Arm Thrust / Close Combat
- Rock Blast
- Bullet Seed
or
Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pin Missile
- Arm Thrust / Close Combat
- Rock Blast
- Bullet Seed
Never use Bullet Seed or Arm Thrust. Ever. If you are planning on sending normal Heracross into Rotom-W your speed is actually higher before you megavolve so you'd out speed him the first turn. So you can pick off weakened Rotom-W but it's risky to pick a fight with a full one without Substitute because he simply can't afford a burn. The Adamant spread you posted is the standard anyway I believe. If you want more bulk though at bare minimum you need enough speed for specially defensive Heatran
What would you guys think about running a Choice Band on Mega Heracross? Move set being Pin Missle, Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, and Earthquake.
It's not possible; Mega Heracross needs its Heracronite or else it's not Mega Heracross :X
But anyway, Bullet Seed is a generally poor option on Heracross, CC would be better, as you need EQ, Pin Missile, and Rock Blast, and CC helps you to wall break better than Bullet Seed ever will, and that's why you use Mega Heracross: incredible wall breaking ability. Even w/o Bullet Seed, it's not like Rotom, Quag, or Azumarill can switch into you. Also also, CB vanilla Heracross probably isn't worth your while in OU. Too easily revenged and just outclassed in general. Might be viable in UU, but I think Scarfed Heracross is better there (and in OU too, but again, probably not worth your while).
But anyway, Bullet Seed is a generally poor option on Heracross, CC would be better, as you need EQ, Pin Missile, and Rock Blast, and CC helps you to wall break better than Bullet Seed ever will, and that's why you use Mega Heracross: incredible wall breaking ability. Even w/o Bullet Seed, it's not like Rotom, Quag, or Azumarill can switch into you. Also also, CB vanilla Heracross probably isn't worth your while in OU. Too easily revenged and just outclassed in general. Might be viable in UU, but I think Scarfed Heracross is better there (and in OU too, but again, probably not worth your while).
I can vouch for the Gorebyss as an outstanding partner. I built a rather "silly" looking team, yet pretty damn efective (It has gotten me pretty high up the OU ladder). I've been using Heracross for a while now, testing him with many teams, and I can say that he's pretty versatile, but when he really is dangerous is when you have thunder wave support, tailwind talonflame is also a good partner.
Here's a CRAZY match I had today with the team I mentioned before, you can witness that THE BULK IS REAL. It's pretty hilarious too, the opponent and his multiple friends where going crazy with my team.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-112325449
Here's a CRAZY match I had today with the team I mentioned before, you can witness that THE BULK IS REAL. It's pretty hilarious too, the opponent and his multiple friends where going crazy with my team.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-112325449
I do want to point out that while Arm Thrust can break Substitutes, Brick Break has the same base power and can break Screens.
Arm Thrust breaks Subs, Brick Break breaks screens, Close Combat breaks Pokemon. There's only one good choice out of the three here.
Hm... I'm going to go with Focus Blast.
I'm still trying to build the perfect team around him. I believe Mega-Hera is amazing, I never have to worry about stall when using him, the thing is finding the balance between that and the support he desperately needs when facing more offensive teams, especially those with the likes of Talonflame and Pinsir. It's not easy, but it's worth it.
Tbh I feel comments like this are stupid, there's very little things that wouldn't benefit from +2 Atk/SpA/Spe, baton passing boosts is simply not a reliable/good strategy outside of full bp.
Baton passing is not easy, but if you know how to play it correctly, and find the right moment to start doing so... I've found some consistency with it at the higher ladder.
The reason Heracross is easier to baton pass to than other mons is due to his defensive typing and his excellent bulk. He can take a hit. When running BP I invest heavily on HP and very little on speed. When it comes to sticky web support I can't really do that, I have to go for max speed, losing out on important bulk. Though sticky web may be easier to play, that much is true.
I said Gorebyss was an excellent team partner because it has good defense and the opponent is not going to attack it with a fire type move, which is 1 less thing to worry about for when Hera comes in.
Oh and you can state your opinion without sounding like a colossal dickhead. How about that?
The problem with Heracross is that priority flying type moves are four times as effective on it and it has no priority of its own. To me, it sounds like a pretty bad idea for a baton pass receiver.
- Status