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Here Comes The Sun!

Discussion in 'Dragonspiral Tower' started by IcyMan28, Nov 3, 2010.

  1. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    2,106
    With PO providing playtesting grounds and about a month having passed for everyone to begin experimenting with new threats, I figure it might be the right time to discuss weather in 5th Gen, more specifically Sunny Day.

    The Effects

    -Increases the power of Fire-type moves by 50%.
    -Cuts the power of Water-type moves by 50%.
    -The healing moves Moonlight, Morning Sun, and Synthesis restore health by 66%.
    -Thunder's accuracy decreases to 50%.
    -Solarbeam does not require charging.
    -No pokemon can be frozen while sunlight is in effect.
    -Pokemon with the Chlorophyll ability have their speed doubled.
    -Pokemon with the Solar Power ability gain a 50% boost to their special attack stat, at the cost of 12% of their HP every turn.
    -Pokemon with the Dry Skin ability lose 12.5% of their HP every turn.
    -Pokemon with the Leaf Guard ability cannot be inflicted with status, included self-inflicted sleep from Rest.
    -Growth boosts both Attack and Special Attack by two stages.
    -Weather Ball becomes a 100 Base Power Fire-type attack.

    The Pokemon

    As you've probably guessed by reading the information above, Fire- and Grass-type pokemon benefit most from battling under the sun, while the Water-type becomes significantly less threatening. I've compiled a list of pokemon that I think stand out among these groups, as well as a few wild card pokemon that are useful. A single damage calc is included to demonstrate effectiveness, when applicable.

    [​IMG]@Leftovers
    Calm; 220 HP / 252 SpD / 36 Speed

    - Hypnosis
    - Energy Ball
    - Will-o-Wisp
    - Flamethrower

    This is the pokemon that starts it all. Ninetales now has Drought as an ability from the Dream World, which summons eternal sunlight (until the weather is changed by either SandStream, Snow Warning, Drizzle, Rain Dance, Hail, or Sandstorm). I've gone with a specially defensive spread that takes advantage of Ninetales' good special defense and access to status moves Hypnosis and Will-o-Wisp. The latter is particularly effective, as the sun's removal of its water weakness leaves Ground and Rock, two primarily physical attacking types, as its only weaknesses. It is entirely possible, however, to use Ninetales' high speed and access to Nasty Plot in a more sweeper-oriented set.

    [​IMG]@Life Orb
    Naughty; 252 Atk / 36 SpA / 220 Speed

    - Growth
    - Earthquake
    - Seed Bomb
    - Hidden Power Fire

    With Growth acting as Nasty Plot and Swords Dance all in one turn under the sun, Venusaur is probably the most threatening Chlorophyll sweeper the game has to offer, and this set makes full use of that. After accounting for the IV spread required for HP Fire, the EV spread allows Venusaur to outpace Jolly ScarfChomp in the sun while maximizing its attack and allowing HP Fire to do 71% minimum to 252/252 Careful Jirachi, the most specially defensive steel-type you are ever likely to encounter. Another option is a purely special set of Sludge Bomb / Growth / Hidden Power Fire / Petal Dance. With HP Fire covering the majority of steels (and those that aren't being obliterated by fire-type partners), Venusaur can sweep with Sludge Bomb and utilize Petal Dance as an option in the final slot, boasting impressive power at the cost of a self-trapping effect. Additional information and damage calcs can be found in this post: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3109886&postcount=17

    [​IMG]@Choice Specs
    Timid; 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Speed

    - Air Slash
    - Fire Blast
    - Focus Blast
    - Dragon Pulse

    Charizard, on the other hand, is the most effective user of Solar Power in the game, the other two being the decidedly mediocre Sunflora and Tropius. In the sun, SpecsZard is capable of inflicting (47.48% - 56.02%) to 252/252 Calm Blissey, a solid 2HKO after Stealth Rock and a round of Leftovers. The other moves are largely filler as a result; Focus Blast hits Heatran, the one pokemon to resist the combination of Fire Blast + Dragon Pulse, super-effectively. It should be noted that, despite its 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, Charizard is immune to Earthquake, giving it an edge of fellow fire types.

    [​IMG]@Life Orb
    Adamant; 120 HP / 152 Atk / 136 Speed

    - Flare Blitz
    - Morning Sun
    - Extremespeed
    - Close Combat / Wild Bolt

    Arcanine deserves a mention for being one of the few "bulky" pure fire-types around, which this set capitalizes on. Its recovery move, Morning Sun, heals a significant 66% with each use under the sun, allowing Ninetales' counterpart to erase any damage incurred by Stealth Rock, Life Orb, and recoil. It also has a niche in that it has access to Extremespeed, a +2 priority attack with a solid 80 base power. Flare Blitz is obligatory STAB and is boosted under the sun, while the last move is for coverage. As Arcanine outspeeds all versions of Tyranitar and Politoed (excluding Choice Scarf), it can viably elect to use either Close Combat or Wild Bolt to eliminate an opposing weather-setter. Combined with its ability to take on Abomasnow with Flare Blitz, Arcanine becomes capable of effectively dealing with 3 of the 5 weather setters depending on the final move choice - Abomasnow with Flare Blitz, either Tyranitar or Politoed with the appropriate attack, and Ninetales is dealt with relatively easily; it cannot stand up to Arcanine's powerful physical assaults.

    [​IMG]@Life Orb
    Naive; 252 Atk / 48 SpA / 208 Speed

    - Leaf Blade
    - Weather Ball
    - Sucker Punch
    - Growth / Sleep Powder

    Continuing with the theme of Chlorophyll sweepers is Victreebel, who distinguishes itself with the use of Weather Ball and access to Sucker Punch. Leaf Blade is the main STAB, sporting good base power and perfect accuracy, along with an increased chance of critical hit. Weather Ball becomes a 100 Base Power Fire-type move under sunny weather, allowing Victreebel to hit much harder under the sun than most other grass-types that have no choice but to run HP Fire or Earthquake. It also becomes a 100 Base Power Ice-type attack in Hail, which, while not as effective with the rest of the set, could prove handy should the need arise. Sucker Punch allows Victreebel to remain a threat even if the sun should be obscured by sand or rainclouds, and hits psychic-types eager to land a super effective hit for significant damage. The last slot depends on the ultimate goal with Victreebel - as a mid-game attacker, Sleep Powder is probably more useful, as it incapacitates an opponent. Growth, however, allows Victreebel to become a solid late-game sweeper should you desire that. Victreebel is perfectly capable of running a purely special set consisting of Weather Ball / Sludge Bomb / Growth / HP Ice, and while a mixed set is viable as well, the lack of Earthquake is an issue when dealing with Heatran, Empoleon, and steels outside of sunlight.

    [​IMG]@Life Orb
    Rash; 48 Atk / 252 SpA / 208 Speed

    - Leaf Storm
    - Sleep Powder
    - Psychic / Psycho Shock
    - Low Kick / Hidden Power Ground

    Exeggutor is tied with Roserade for the highest special attack among all grass-types, and this set makes use of that. Sunlight patches up its middling speed, allowing it to sweep with its powerful STAB Psychic. Leaf Storm allows Exeggutor to blast its enemies with its most powerful move, while Low Kick deals with various steel-types. If something like Skarmory switches in, Sleep Powder will quickly disable the threat, allowing you to either batter it down and overpower it or switch to an ally that can more appropriately deal with the threat.

    [​IMG]@Leftovers
    Timid; 188 Def / 68 SpD / 252 Speed

    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Sleep Powder
    - Encore / U-Turn

    The cotton ball pokemon, which had the distinction of being the fastest SubSeeder around until Sceptile appeared in Gen 3, regains its title under the sun thanks to Chlorophyll. Its 350 speed translates into a stat of 700 after the boost, a number that is literally untouchable by any pokemon but Deoxys-S itself, and even it requires a Choice Scarf to do so. Jumpluff can use its speed to Sleep a looming threat, then begin the cycle of Substitute and Leech Seed to stall out the opponent. The last slot provides utility; Encore is an excellent disruptive attack in general, but U-Turn allows you to hit the grass-types that are immune to Leech Seed and go to a fire-type all in one turn, and it also prevents Mischievous Heart users of Taunt from having their way with it. Despite its use of unconventional tactics rather than a direct approach, Jumpluff is a completely viable pokemon to use with Sun support, and finds its niche on stall teams, especially. It should be noted, however, that Erefuun almost entirely outclasses it with Mischievious Heart granting priority to its own SubSeed strategy; Jumpluff needs to focus on the use of Sleep Powder, U-Turn, and the additional resistances granted by the flying type to prevent being outclassed.

    [​IMG]@Life Orb
    Jolly; 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Speed

    - Blaze Kick
    - Stone Edge
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Swords Dance

    Blaziken has received quite a bit of hype lately, thanks to its newly-acquired Dream World ability, Speed Boost. While threatening under normal circumstances, the Sun aids Blaziken by negating its weakness to water, and Blaziken does not have a rock-type weakness like most fire pokemon. Blaze Kick, arguably Blaziken's safest option on the set, becomes frighteningly powerful under the Sun; after a Swords Dance, it OHKOs Max/Max Bold Desukan and manages a minimum of 73% on Max/Max Bold Cresselia, two of the most solid counters to the SD set. Blaziken is relatively unique in using Swords Dance, as most fire-type sun sweepers focus on immediately inflicting damage with special attacks, and the other physical fire-types (such as Entei and Arcanine) lack Swords Dance and Speed Boost.

    Infernape is a pokemon with the same typing as Blaziken, but higher initial speed and access to Nasty Plot. It's DW ability, Iron Fist, boosts the power of Mach Punch, Fire Punch, and Thunderpunch, which allows it to distinguish itself further with a strong priority attack and the potential to sweep on the special side of the spectrum with its higher starting speed.

    [​IMG]@Life Orb
    Timid; 72 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA / 176 Speed

    - Nasty Plot
    - Dark Pulse
    - Focus Blast
    - Giga Drain / Hidden Power Ice

    Shiftry is one of the faster users of Chlorophyll, with an already decent base 80 speed as a starting point. With Nasty Plot, Dark Pulse, and Focus Blast alone, Shiftry has nearly perfect coverage. The use of a grass move in the last slot is largely filler and depends on your needs. Shiftry is also capable of running a fully physical set with SD / Nature Power / Seed Bomb / Sucker Punch, or even a mixed set utilizing Growth, like Venusaur. Nature Power is viable because it now becomes Earthquake in wifi battles, allowing Shiftry to deal with fire- and steel-types. The options are all there depending on what you need.

    [​IMG]@Leftovers
    Impish; 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SpD

    Synthesis
    Earthquake
    Wood Hammer
    Stealth Rock / Leech Seed

    Torterra becomes quite the tank under the sun, its unique Ground/Grass typing providing several key resistances such as Rock, Ground, Electric, and Water (under the sun). Synthesis becomes a viable method of healing while the sun is present, and Torterra can scare away nearly all other weather setters with its STAB moves alone. The last slot is best used for some form of support, Stealth Rock being preferred because of the turtle's bulk.

    [​IMG]@Leftovers
    Calm; 252 HP / 6 SpA / 252 SpD

    - Solarbeam
    - Protect / Morning Sun
    - Protect / Healing Beam
    - Weather Ball / Hidden Power Fire

    Cherrim gets notable mention because its ability, Flower Gift, provides a boost to the Attack and Special Defense of its partners in double and triple battles. The set focuses largely on supporting its allies and staying alive. Solarbeam is Cherrim's best grass-type attack in the sun, sporting perfect accuracy and high base power. In the second slot, either Protect can be used to evade damage, or Morning Sun can be used to restore health after damage has already been dealt. Similarly, the third slot adds the option of Healing Beam to restore the health of Cherrim's teammates by 50%. Finally, Weather Ball and Hidden Power Fire provide a fire attack for use under the sun. Unfortunately, Weather Ball and Healing Beam come from two distinct breeding chains, so Protect should be used with Weather Ball and HP Fire is best alongside Healing Beam.

    [​IMG]@Life Orb
    Naive; 200 Atk / 76 SpA / 232 Speed

    - Earthquake
    - Power Whip
    - Sleep Powder
    - Hidden Power Fire

    With its great offensive stats of 100/110, mixed Tangrowth functions as a combination of Exeggutor and Venusaur. The offensive attacks are identical to those run by Venusaur, but Tangrowth eschews Growth to make room for Sleep Powder, Exeggutor's option. Tangrowth boasts significant physical bulk, and is just as capable of running a fully special or Swords Dance set should you prefer it. Additionally, this set can be made all the more offensive by electing to use Growth over Sleep Powder and Rock slide over Earthquake, granting Tangrowth excellent coverage backed by power and blistering speed. Because Tangrowth is not really threatened by Tyranitar, Politoed, or Hippowdon, Solarbeam is a viable option should a special route be taken.

    [​IMG]@Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
    Timid; 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Speed

    - Trick
    - Overheat
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power Fighting

    The transition from Platinum to Black and White saw Rotom-H gain a fire-type in place of its original ghost-typing, granting it the original Electric/Fire type to work with. Rotom's high bulk and decent speed make a Specs/Scarf set viable, and the otherwise crippling weakness to ground moves is entirely removed by the excellent Levitate ability (which also grants Spikes and Toxic Spikes immunity). Trick allows Rotom to cripple problematic pokemon such as Swampert with Specs or a Scarf. Overheat is its most powerful attack, gaining STAB and a sun-boost all in one, while Thunderbolt provides consistent damage. HP Fighting in the last slot deals nicely with the likes of Tyranitar, Heatran, and others. With Specs equipped, Rotom-H is capable of crippling or flat-out OHKOing opposing weather pokemon. Moreover, water-type are not entirely safe switching in to take an Overheat or Trick, as Thunderbolt puts them in a difficult position.

    [​IMG]@Life Orb
    Timid; 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Speed

    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Hidden Power Grass

    Heatran is one of the few fire-types that is not weak to Rock-type attacks thanks to its Steel secondary typing, which also provides it ample resistances and opportunities to switch in. Backed by a potential Flash Fire boost, the sun, STAB, Life Orb, and naturally high SpA, Heatran's Fire Blast is capable of ripping through teams with ease using its coverage and strength. Underestimate it at your peril; Max/Max Calm Blissey takes (46.64% - 55.04%) from a Flash Fire-boosted Fire Blast under the sun.

    [​IMG]@Life Orb
    Timid; 6 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Speed

    - Growth
    - Air Slash
    - Seed Flare
    - Hidden Power Fire

    Shaymin-S has the distinction of being the fastest grass-type in the game, and one of the fastest overall in general. With Growth boosting its SpA by two levels, it becomes capable of threatening to dismantle entire teams in a devastating sweep. Air Slash is capable of dealing 73% minimum to 6/0 Latias, the bulkiest dragon you are likely to encounter in OU. Meanwhile, Hidden Power Fire eliminates any steel-type incapable of outspeeding Shaymin, other than Heatran of course. Seed Flare remains as powerful as ever, and should it obtain the special defense drop, Shaymin is nearly guaranteed to finish what it started so long as it can fire off a second attack.

    [​IMG]@Expert Belt / Life Orb
    Timid / Jolly; 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Speed

    - Grass Knot / U-Turn
    - Shadow Ball / Wild Bolt
    - Focus Blast / Brick Break
    - Blaze Judgement / Flare Blitz

    While Manaphy splashed onto the scene last generation, providing rain with one of the strongest sweepers it has ever seen, 5th gen gives sun teams a new toy to play with in the form of Victini. In exchange for Manaphy's special attacking prowess, the Fire/Psychic type has the ability to strike hard on either end of the spectrum thanks to its powerful attacks and excellent type coverage. Its unique ability, Victory Star, boosts the accuracy of imperfect-accuracy attacks, which provides it with a 93% accurate Fire Blast and 77% accurate Focus Blast. The above set(s) are mirror versions of the other. Grass Knot allows Victini to hit water-type and Tyranitar that switch in, while Shadow Ball covers Latias and Latios (pokemon that, with their high SpD and typing, often put a full stop to the Fire/Grass-filled sets present on Sun teams). Focus Blast is an excellent coverage move thanks to its typing, and hits Heatran, Tyranitar, and Empoloen, notably. Finally, Blaze Judgement is one of Victini's signature attacks, sporting a solid 100 base power, 100 accuracy, and 30% chance of burn - a much improved Lava Plume. The physical counterpart is similar; Flare Blitz is STAB, U-turn hits the Lati twins and allows Victini to scout, Wild Bolt hits water-types, and Brick Break maintains the coverage against Tyranitar and Heatran. On the special set, Victini boasts super-effective coverage against 12 of the 17 types, making Expert Belt extremely viable to reduce Victini's vulnerability to recoil. While the physical set still hits 10 of the 17 types, a Life Orb is acceptable to boost the power output. Physical sets should run Jolly and 252 Attack EVs over Timid and 252 SpA EVs.

    [​IMG]@Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
    Timid; 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Speed

    - Fire Blast
    - Energy Ball
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power Ground

    Shandera is another fire-type introduced in Gen 5 that deserves consideration. Although it is a powerful special attacker bolstered by the sun, this is not what distinguishes it, as there are several other pokemon that can boast the same. Rather, its Dream World ability, Shadow Tag, is what sets it apart. Shandera is capable of trapping and killing problematic pokemon on the opposing team, notably enemy weather-setters. Politoed, weakened Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Abomasnow are all within Shandera's potential victims; the former three can be caught off guard by a swift Energy Ball, while Abomasnow is put down by Fire Blast. A quick switch to Ninetales, even if sacrificial, can then bring the weather into your favor for the last time.

    [​IMG]@Life Orb
    Timid; 6 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Speed

    - Bug Buzz
    - Butterfly Dance
    - Hidden Power Ground
    - Fire Dance / Fire Blast

    While Heatran was the premiere Fire-type of the Diamond and Pearl, Black and White present Urgamoth as their calling card. Boasting excellent stats of 85/60/65/135/105/100, the Bug/Fire type is capable of inflicting severe damage to even slightly weakened teams. Under the sun, this power is multiplied. Butterfly Dance, which boosts Atk/SpA/Speed by 1 stage, allows Urgamoth to OHKO 4/0 Salamence with LO Sun-Boosted Fire Dance 66% of the time with Stealth Rock, potentially nabbing it a game-winning SpA boost. Fire Blast, however, remains an option, as it does (74.62% - 87.82%) to even Max/Max Impish Gyarados. Furthermore, the combination of the sun and Butterfly Dance's SpD boost eliminates water-types as viable counters to the moth, as they are quickly KOd.

    There are many pokemon capable of taking advantage of the intense sunlight. Essentially every Fire-type will appreciate sun support, such as Moltres (who is given a charge-free Solarbeam) and Typhlosion, who has the powerful Eruption at its disposal. Chlorophyll-abusing grass-types will also appreciate it, as well as those that use Weather Ball, such as Victreebel and Roserade.

    However, there are various other pokemon that might see use in dedicated sun teams, and here are a few of those:

    [​IMG]@Leftovers
    Impish; 252 HP / 112 Atk / 144 Def

    - Rapid Spin
    - Earthquake
    - Volt Change
    - Spikes / Stealth Rock / Toxic Spikes

    Forretress has been a staple of more defensively-oriented teams since its introduction in Gold and Silver. Its high defense combined with Bug/Steel typing grant it numerous resistances, and it packs decent punch behind its attacks. Although sunlight does augment its weakness to fire attacks, Forretress is not particularly known for taking those anyway, and should it have to, Sturdy can allow it to pull off a final spin. It does, however, gain a useful resistance to water-type moves. Forretress' set is pretty much standard, with Rapid Spin and Earthquake being its most common moves and Volt Change being used to scout switch-ins and prevent the bagworm from becoming set up fodder. The final choice of entry hazards is dependant on the team's needs - Spikes and Stealth Rock features the debate between hitting grounded sweepers like Lucario and Doryuuzu or hitting flying-types such as Zapdos and Salamence. Toxic Spikes, however, merits a slash because it significantly reduces the impact Rain teams are capable of making, even with a single layer down.

    [​IMG]@Leftovers
    Impish; 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Atk

    - Rapid Spin
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Ice Shard / Payback

    Donphan is seemingly a surprising choice for a sun team, but it does have its niche. With the sun neutralizing its water weakness and the team structure naturally providing grass- and fire-types to absorb incoming Ice Beams and Leaf Storms, Donphan is free to provide a valuable Rock-resistance, and can use its considerable physical bulk to sponge Earthquakes. Furthermore, it provides both Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin support, the former of which is appreciated by any sweeper and the latter being key to the success of various Fire-types, such as Charizard and Urgamoth. The final slot is a choice between priority and inflicting damage on ghosts seeking to block Rapid Spin.

    [​IMG]@Leftovers
    Relaxed; 252 HP / 204 Def / 52 SpA

    - Roar
    - Ice Beam
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock

    The inclusion of a water-type on a Sun-based team may seem like a strange choice, but the added type resistances are extremely valuable. Swampert, in particular, does not lose anything from playing under the sun, as this particular set does not run any water moves. Quite the opposite, Swampert actually gains a valuable water resistance (which assists it in taking on, say, CM Kerudio or LO Starmie), and has a single weakness that is easily covered by its fellow fire- and grass-type teammates. Ice and Ground provide excellent coverage together, and Swampert is strong even without much investment. Roar allows it to scout the opposing team while simultaneously racking up hazard damage, which it kindly provides in the form of Stealth Rock. Swampert is an excellent choice to use on balanced and stall-based sun teams alike, as its entry hazards and ability to lure grass attacks function extremely well with the SubSeed strategy (yes, you should be thinking of Jumpluff here).

    [​IMG]@Leftovers
    Bold; 252 HP / 144 Def / 114 SpA

    - Ice Beam
    - Rapid Spin
    - Earth Power
    - Stealth Rock

    In a similar vein to Donphan, Claydol functions on a Sunny Day team for many of the same reasons. It, too, is capable of using both Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock, and has similar coverage in its choice of moves. What distinguishes Claydol is its immunity to Ground, resistance to Fighting, and significantly higher Special Defense, which may prove handy in handling a stray Fire Blast should the need arise. Claydol is also able to take on Rankurusu, who would otherwise sweep with its low speed, bulk, high special attack, and Trick Room. Claydol's downfall, however, is the additional susceptibility to Bug, Dark, and Ghost attacks.

    [​IMG]@Life Orb
    Jolly; 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Speed

    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Dance

    Salamence is right at home fighting under the sun, and for good reason. With the sunshine boosting the power of its Fire Blast, it no longer needs to run a Naive nature to guarantee the OHKO on Skarmory, as even Max/Max Careful Skamory is wiped out with Stealth Rock in tow, as well as 252/0 Neutral Metagross. With the powerful fire-types found on Sunny Day teams, the few steels capable of fending off Salamence will have a difficult time staying around for long, letting the dragon end the game with its classic Dragon Dance sweep. In return, Salamence provides valuable resistances to Ground, opposing Fire moves, Water, Grass, and decent bulk. Should MixMence be used, the reverse is true - Salamence punches holes in the opposition so that a Chlorophyll or Fire-type sweeper can clean up late-game.

    [​IMG]@Leftovers
    Bold; 252 HP / 108 Def / 148 SpD

    - Reflect
    - Moonlight
    - Ice Beam / Psychic
    - Thunder Wave / Sunny Day

    Cresselia is one of the bulkiest pokemon in existence, and is a valuable asset to any team seeking pure bulk. Its one problem has always been a lack of reliable recovery, and that is patched up with a sun-boosted Moonlight (oxymoron, I know). Reflect grants Cresselia added defense against Bug- and Dark-types, as well as patching up any weaknesses elsewhere in the team (and notably makes Urugamosu significantly more difficult to check). She makes an excellent check to Infernape and Blaziken, making Psychic an option, but is also one of the best Dragon-type checks around, which makes Ice Beam the preferred choice. The last slot is for added insurance against opposing weather teams, who often have the advantages against Sun due to type match-ups. Thunder Wave directly removes their speed with the paralysis status (so long as they are not of the Ground-type), while Sunny Day can quickly turn the tide of the battle and provide an opportunity to switch into, say, Venusaur or Ninetales. With her bulk and status options, Cresselia can find a place in various sun teams, and notably makes a decent partner to Infernape and Blaziken both type-wise and support-wise.

    Advantages

    -Increased Diversity of Types Relative to Other Weathers

    With the benefits of sun being distributed between two types at the least, Sun Teams are generally more diverse than the water-loaded Rain teams. It is often easier to put together a synergetic team under the sun as a result. For example, a team of Ninetales / MixVenusaur / Cresselia / DDSalamence / Donphan / ScarfHeatran combines bulk, speed, power, and defensive prowess all in one team. Various team roles are covered, and with at least 1 resistance to every type, it is well-prepared to deal with a more standard team.

    -Potential for Varied Styles of Play

    While Rain is often regarded as the most offensive form of weather, and Sand being widely considered as a more stallish environment, Sun is capable of functioning on both ends of the proverbial spectrum. It has both fast, hard-hitting users such as Venusaur and Heatran, and beneficiaries that are capable of taking significant damage, such as Cresselia. The grass-type is also notorious for using unconventional strategies such as Sleep and SubSeed, something that Jumpluff takes advantage of to become an absolute terror under the sun.

    Downfalls

    While the intensity of the sunlight provides various pokemon with additional benefits, there are some negatives to its use.

    -Poor Type Match-Ups Against Opposing Weather Teams

    With the exception of Hail (which is, unfortunately for Sun, the least commonly used weather team), Sun's most powerful sweepers are usually at an unfavorable matchup against Sand and Rain teams. The presence of the grass-type often does little to discourage the powerful double-STAB assaults that Rain sweepers wield in addition to their Ice attacks, and they are often outsped in the process. There is no need to explain what happens to fire-types.

    In the case of Sand, fire-types again find themselves at a disadvantage, as their lesser bulk and vulnerability to passive damage often makes it all too easy for Ground- and Rock-types to bring them to an end. Fortunately, the grass-type is a bit more helpful here, as they can use Earthquake and HP Fire to discourage the steel-types that would normally wall them.

    -Relative Frailty of Its Weather-Setter

    This is probably one of the larger issues Sun teams are faced with. Here is a quick look at the defensive stats of each weather-setter, respectively:

    Ninetales: 73/75/100
    Tyranitar: 100/110/100
    Politoed: 90/75/100
    Hippowdon: 108/118/72
    Abomasnow: 90/75/85

    You can already see that Ninetales is the frailest of the five, though it does have acceptable SpD. And unlike Abomasnow, who has various resistances to switch in on and Leech Seed to restore its health, Ninetales is at the mercy of Stealth Rock and has no form of recovery outside of Rest or Wish (which is often not present on Sun Teams). Intelligent use of switch-in opportunities is key to retaining control of the weather, as granting an opposing Sand or Rain team the conditions they need to sweep could be disastrous.

    -Incongruence Between Sun-Based Abilities and the Fire-Type

    Unlike rain and sand teams, in which the users of the weather-based abilities are of the same type that benefits most from the weather, the benefits of sun are distributed between Grass- and Fire-types. In the case of Grass pokemon, the majority of the abilities that benefit from the sun, such as Chlorophyll, Leaf Guard, and formerly Solar Power, are nearly exclusive to them. However, the boost in power to STAB attacks is reserved for the Fire-type, who often have no choice but to switch out in the face of a faster threat or status because they lack the appropriate ability to overcome these issues.

    A Note About Solarbeam

    As mentioned at the outset, Solarbeam loses its charge turn while the sun is shining. This is, many times, quite a blessing for grass-types, who lack an attack parallel to Fire Blast / Hydro Pump / Blizzard / Thunder. Fire-types also appreciate it, as it allows them to hit all three of their weaknesses (for pure fire-types at least) for super-effective damage.

    However, should a different weather activate when Solarbeam is selected, the charge turn will be required, essentially trapping the pokemon and leaving it defenseless against the likes of Tyranitar and Politoed. While you are not guaranteed to run into these pokemon, they are quite common and will frequently frustrate your efforts; personally, I only recommend using Solarbeam when the pokemon is fully capable of dealing with said pokemon by alternative means. Tangrowth, for example, is not threatened by any weather-sweeper other than Abomasnow, who in turn risks a Rock Slide or HP Fire on the switch-in. Solarbeam is thus a viable option on it, though the presence of said pokemon makes using it quite prediction-heavy once your opponent is aware that you are running it.

    Solarbeam is not a viable option on a pokemon such as Charizard, however. Generally speaking, it cannot threaten Politoed or Tyranitar outside of HP Grass and Focus Blast (which Charizard isn't usually opening with), and even those are not the most solid of options due to Politoed's high SpD and Focus Blast's shaky accuracy. Using Solarbeam is an invitation for an opposing weather-setter to not only trap and kill one of your pokemon, but also to set up their own strategy in the process.

    Negatives aside, Sun can be a very threatening and rewarding style if used properly, and is sure to make an impact on the 5th gen metagame. Feel free to discuss any threatening sweepers that function well under the sun, strategies to counter opposing weather, walls that gain additional use under the clear skies, and favorite pokemon to use in general.
  2. Azul

    Azul

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    May I ask why Energy Ball is superior to the 120 BP no-charge Solar Beam?
  3. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    Because if another weather user switches in, you are totally fucked.
  4. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    Tyranitar and Politoed, two of the other 4 weather-setters, have no issues switching in, changing the weather, and thus forcing Solarbeam to use its charge-up turn. Ninetales can then be killed by a STAB Stone Edge or Rain-boosted Surf.
  5. Banryu

    Banryu

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    What they said.

    However, it doesn't mean you should NEVER use Solarbeam, it just means that IF you use it, you need surefire counters to the other weather changers, and be sure that you take them out before even attempting the move. :0 ..which, of course, might not be worth the risk.
  6. min min

    min min

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    The Exeggutor set seems a little strange, what's Low Kick for? Heatran can be killed with HP Ground, and it doesn't do enough damage to Blissey, if my estimations are correct.
  7. ensoriki

    ensoriki

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    What are the stall possibilities of sun?
    There is obviously leech seed, but what else?
  8. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    Maybe Tyranitar?

    Isn't Claydol better that Donphan? It gets SR and Spin too, and its a ground type. Sure, it's Pursuit-weak and U-turn-weak, but it has an immunity to ground, a resistance to fighting, Explosion, Dual Screens, Sunny Day and mixed bulk. It also beats Rankurusu, who sweeps Sun teams minus SD Shiftry (abd Houndoom, if you feel like using a bad pokemon) easily with SR with Trick Room.

    A mention of Arcanine? It's a fire type, yes, but Close Combat and boosted Morning Suns are neat, and priority and Will-o-wisp and Toxic and Sun-STAB Flare Blitz are quite useful.
  9. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    I don't think this is a downside of Sunny Day at all, if anything, it's why Sun teams are viable in their own right. Yes, Fire-types don't get a Speed boost, nor do Grass-types get their STABs boosted, but because of this, more people would run both Fire AND Grass on their team, which makes it much more balanced. You tend to have much better synergy in a sun team than you would have in a rain team, for example, because you have sweepers could switch in on each other's weaknesses, while a rain team would just end up getting swept if the rain disappears, or the opposing team has something that beats down Water-types easily.

    EDIT: In short, if you're playing a sun team like you are a rain team, you are doing it wrong. Sunny Day is more about balance while Rain teams are more about blindly weakening counters and forcing a sweep (If you can). Sunny Day is more like the regular synergy-based Hyper Offense (If you choose to play it that way), while Rain Dance is more like 4drag2mag.
  10. SlimMan

    SlimMan

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    Jumpluff in the sun is worse than any sweeper, I'd say.
    A SubSeeder with 700 speed.
  11. MegaKick

    MegaKick

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    scarfshanderra should be on there, sun boosted overheats and flamethrowers from that sp.att stat destroys. plus it can trap things, and if your prediction is good, switch it in on a wounded politoad/hippodown/really weakened t-tar and energy ball them.

    Sun got a (big?) boost when competing with rain now, since ninetailes is better than politoad and growth being an auto swords dance + nasty plot means that venasaur/victreebell/tangrowth/vileplume/others can get +2/+2/+2 in one turn. Add in that while they dont resist much priority, they are only weak to ice shard and have nice defense, especielly tangrowth.
  12. Lord Jesseus

    Lord Jesseus

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    What about Victreebel?
    Something like

    Growth
    Leaf Blade
    Weather Ball
    Sucker Punch (4th Gen Tutor)/Something Else?

    Functions similarly to Venusaur obviously. Leaf Blade is less powerful than Saur's Power Whip but also more accurate and comes off a higher Atk stat (105 vs 82). Weather Ball is much more powerful than HP Fire and doesn't lower any stats (although fails if the weather changes, but then you won't be using fire attacks against TTar and Politoed anyway). Though not as fast as Venusaur he does have Priority in Sucker Punch, although the move can be problematic and the coverage may not be ideal.

    However, I still think it's definitely worth looking at.
  13. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    Exeggutor was written with a more UU focus; I pulled most of it straight from the 4th Gen analysis. It notably hits Chansey (around 41%), Houndoom, and Registeel harder, though I can add HP Ground as an option.

    I completely overlooked Claydol; the fighting resist and ground immunity could definitely come in handy. It's main issue is lack of power and vulnerability to Tyranitar's Pursuit, but I'll add it to the list.

    Arcanine will get a mention for its surprising bulk alongside Intimidate or Flash Fire, as well as priority. Close Combat is useful mainly for dealing with Tyranitar, a potential switch in, but then Wild Volt hits Politoed. I'll add it as well.

    To be honest I never thought of it that way, but considering it more closely it is definitely the case. I'll make a note of it in the OP.

    I'll add as many diverse options as possible; I just want to make sure that not every grass-type addition is a Grass/Fire/Boost/Sleep or Earthquake carbon copy, and that every fire-type isn't mentioned for the sole purpose of being a fire-type.

    I'll make a mention of it under the additional pokemon section for its ability to trap, but that's it.
  14. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Venusaur wants: 4HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid
    Sludge Bomb / Energy Ball (Or grass Knot) / HP Ground / Growth for great coverage. HP fire is useless on him. (Since your hitting Fire weak pokemon harder with Sludge Bomb anyway)
  15. ShinyPachirisu

    ShinyPachirisu

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    Skarmory completely walls that set, although you should have a counter considering your a sun team :P But If Saur is last vs Skarm he is screwed
  16. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    ^I'll make a note of it, but Blissey walks all over that set while +2 Power Whip OHKOs it from the physical mixed set, so it remains the primary option.
  17. Ech0ez

    Ech0ez

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    You need Petal Dance on there and a +Sp.Atk nature. On another note you'll probably find that Sun-boosted HP Fire does more to Steels, and a lot of Grass types are neutral to Poison.

    Venusaur @ Leftovers
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 32 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 224 Spe
    Modest Nature (+Sp.Atk, - Spe)
    - Growth
    - Petal Dance
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Getting walled by Heatran is a small price to pay for been able to hit the majority of Steels harder and getting coverage on Skarmory, Bronzong and Nattorei (Plus a fair few Heatran run the Balloon regardless). You really want Entry Hazard support (Notably Stealth Rock) when using this set since it nets it a bunch of OHKOs and 2HKOs, and something to trap and kill Heatran is obviously ideal.

    Here are some damage calcs to give a perspective on just how ridiculously powerful this thing is (Take note of how much damage it does to the best special wall in the game):

    Petal Dance vs (open)


    Rotom-W / Calm / 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def
    209.2% - 246.7%

    Hippowdon / Careful / 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def
    194.8% - 230%

    Politoed / Calm / 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def
    173.4% - 204.7%

    Suicune / Calm / 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def
    150.5% - 177.2%

    Grachomp / Neutral Nature / 4 HP / 0 Sp.Def
    148.6% - 174.9%

    Milotic / Calm / 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def
    146.2% - 172.1%

    Tyranitar / Careful / 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def
    164.9% - 194.6% (In other weather)
    109.9% - 129.7% (In Sandstorm)

    Tentacruel / Calm / 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def
    81% - 95.6%

    Sazandora / Neutral Nature / 4 HP / 0 Sp.Def
    77.9% - 91.7%

    Latios / Neutral Nature / 4 HP / 0 Sp.Def
    70.5% - 83.4%

    Dusclops / Careful / 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def
    65.5% - 77.1%

    Cresselia / Calm 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def
    62.8% - 73.9%

    Porygon 2 / Calm / 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def
    61.8% - 73%

    Latias / Neutral Nature / 4 HP / 0 Sp.Def
    61.3% - 72.2%

    Blissey / Bold / 252 HP / 4 Sp.Def
    50.1% - 59.2%

    Abomasnow / Sassy / 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def
    48.4% - 57%

    Ninetails / Calm / 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def
    47.4% - 56%


    Sludge Bomb vs (open)

    Salamence / Neutral Nature / 0 HP / 0 Sp.Def
    126.9% - 149.5%

    Sazandora / Neutral Nature / 4 HP / 0 Sp.Def
    117.2% - 137.8%

    Latios / Neutral Nature / 4 HP / 0 Sp.Def
    106.6% - 125.5%

    Latias / Neutral Nature / 4 HP / 0 Sp.Def
    92.7% - 109%

    Dragonite / Neutral Nature / 0 HP / 0 Sp.Def
    71.8% - 84.8% (No Multiscale)

    Rotom-H / Calm / 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def
    78.3% - 92.8%


    Sun-Boosted Hidden Power Fire vs (open)

    Scizor / Careful / 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def
    261.6% - 308.1%
    130.8% - 154.1% (With Occa Berry)

    Forretress / Careful / 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def
    300.6% - 354.8%

    Nattorei / Careful / 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def
    198.9% - 234.1%

    Metagross / Neutral Nature / 252 HP / 0 Sp.Def
    162.6% - 191.8%

    Skarmory / Careful / 252 HP / 240 Sp.Def
    147.9% - 174.3%

    Bronzong / Sassy / 252 HP / 92 Sp.Def
    118.3% - 139.6%

    Jirachi / Careful / 252 HP / 156 Sp.Def
    104.5% - 123.3%

    Regice / Calm / 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def
    64.8% - 76.4%

    Muk / Calm / 252 HP / 252 Sp.Def
    47.1% - 55.6%
  18. outofdashdwz

    outofdashdwz

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    Wow, nicely written.

    I think Forretress also deserves a mention. Forry really enjoys the water resistance, and baits fire attacks even more to give Arcanine or Heatran a free switch in. Many surprise fire attacks are specifically EVed to kill him in one hit anyway, so the sun doesn't hurt him significantly. Forry also has several merits to use on a sun team. A lot of sun sweepers enjoy Spikes support that turn their 2HKOs into OHKOs, and everyone knows how much Charizard and Urugamosu enjoy SR :( Also, rain sweepers HATE tspikes, as does Hippowdon, so that's definitely an option as well. Just watch out for Tentacruel. It can also set up either/both screen(s) and then blow up to set up for a sweep once it spins away the hazards too.

    You might also want to mention that Reflect from Forry/Cress lets Urugamosu set up much more easily with buffed defenses on both ends of the spectrum.
  19. Ceremony

    Ceremony

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    I rather use Ninetales with Fire Blast / Solar Beam / Roar / Nasty Plot .. and its ballons.
  20. Sceats

    Sceats

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    As someone who has almost exclusively been playing with sun teams, I would just like to show my support for 2 mons in particular, mebukijika and shandera. Meb, the new deer gets chlorophyll and a base speed of 95 and attack of 100 which may look like a worse leafeon but it's stab boosted return is amazing and with swords dance it's only stopped by shandera and with nature power (earthquake) you are stopped by nattorei. Both ditto and smarm stop it, however despite this I have found him to easily be one of (if not the) best chlorophyll sweepers around. Once I get on my laptop (currently on my Ipod touch) I will post the set.
  21. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
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    Doreida is not in the OP? BLASPHEMY
  22. lumpor

    lumpor

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    I really think people are a bit narrow-minded when it comes to solarbeam.

    "Tyranitar/politoad might switch in on it". That's like saying you shouldn't use fire blast with heatran, cause then scarf shandeera can trap you and ohko you wih hp ground.

    Sure, nintales is a key asset to the team, so she can use energy ball as her drought ability is more important tan her dealing damage, but for a sweeper like exeggutor to use something as crippling as leaf storm? To use energy ball instead of solarbeam is reducing your damage by a third vs like 95% of the pokemon out there only to not get trapped by 4 specific ones.

    Also, what's up with not giving exeguttor hp fire? It dents steels, and has 105 bp as opposed to the 70 bp of hp ground.

    When it comes to solarbeam, stop just thinking of the worst-case scenario all the time. Think of blasting stuff with a giant beam from the sun.
  23. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    The problem is if you Solarbeam into a weather changer, you're stuck there for a whole turn, which makes you setup fodder. If you Fire Blast into Heatran, you can easily switch out and not give away more free turns than you should.
  24. lumpor

    lumpor

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    I said fire blast into shandeera. He'll resist it then trap you.

    Politoed can take energy balls all day. You'd still need to switch out and let him get a free turn, although he'd get one turn more.

    Remember, you're just thinking of the worst case scenario. I'm sure exeguttor for example can't ohko vaporeon with an energy ball, while it can with a solarbeam.
  25. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    I'm quite sure Shandera is not taking Sun-boosted Fire Blasts very well even with a resist, so the most he could do is trap and kill you (Which if he's Scarfed, you're the one with the free turn).

    About the "one turn more", an extra turn can make all the difference. He can do stuff like Encore you into Solarbeam to force another switch to guarantee they do something in that turn, Toxic you, or just guarantee a free switch to something else. One extra turn in Pokemon is huge (Look at Wobbuffet and why he's so awesome, who's pretty much the source of free turns).

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