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BW OU Highway to Hell

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by dragonuser, Aug 17, 2012.

  1. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
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    ~Highway to Hell~


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Introduction:

    Hey guys it's dragonuser here, posting my favorite team for the BW1 metagame. BW1 was the metagame I started Pokemon in, and will always be a favorite. Many people consider BW1 stale and are annoyed by the abundance of VoltTurn/Spam teams. This has always disappointed me as I consider BW1 fairly diverse and creative. Perhaps I am a bit biased because of my love for the metagame, but BW1 has always been enjoyable and diverse to me. Anyways, this team was made in preparation for playing Playa in round 2 of the World Cup of Pokemon. I had decided to build around the Latias and Dugtrio core that user Stone Cold had recommended to me. I quickly realized that adding "Sun" would help Latias achieve a sweep, plus Sun has always been one of my favorite playstyles. Almost everyone I know considers Sun very "hit or miss", as it matches up very well vs some playstyles, and very poorly versus some others. The idea of a more reliable sun team had always intrigued, but eluded me.

    In the end I realized that there isn't any magical Pokemon that will help Sun versus its "miss" playstyle, but rather victory depends more on creativity within the sets of the standard Sun Pokemon. My finished team looked more offensive than I had imagined, but I have yet to be disappointed by it. This team doesn't have any amazing peaks, as it was created long after the BW1 ladder was alive, but has maintained a very high win percentage for me(wcop/frontier/random tournaments). IFM had also used a variation of this team to great success in his World Cup semifinals match against Sogeking. With World Cup over, BW1 is officially coming to a close. So in remembrance of my first metagame I have decided to post one of my favorite and most effective teams.


    Team Building Process:
    Process (open)


    [​IMG][​IMG]
    The team started with the Latias + Dugtrio core. Dugtrio is able to trap and kill two of Latias's biggest counters, Tyranitar and Heatran. I had decided to build around a Physically Defensive Substitute CM Latias, as I knew how deadly Substitute CM Latias can be with proper team support.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Looking at what still threatened Latias, I realized adding Ninetales and its eternal Sun would help Latias on its way to a sweep. Threats to Latias like Jirachi and Scizor are generally easy to handle for most Sun teams, making this the perfect playstyle for Latias. Substitute CM Latias also has the ability to handle most Rain stall teams that can trouble Sun.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I believe that most balanced or stall teams should have a spinner, Sun especially. Forretress forms a great combination with Dugtrio, and keeps deadly hazards like Stealth Rocks off my field. Forretress also provides many valuable resistances for my team, and is my primary Dragon-Type resist.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    At this point I could see the team starting to form, but I knew the next thing added had to be able to handle the standard Dragon Dance Dragonite as he can be a huge threat for Sun Teams. Specially oriented Dragon-Type's like Latias and Latios also seemed problematic to face. Heatran gave me everything I needed, and is always a very reliable pokemon. I have never been the biggest fan for using the standard Specially Defensive Heatran set, and started to look for ways to make my team unique. I soon came upon Tobes's Heatran set and instantly knew it would define my team.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Looking at the current version of my team, I realized two things: First I was extremely slow, and second that Latias was my only Water-Type resist. Knowing I would want to preserve Latias's health and not risk any ailments, I then decided to add every Sun team's favorite Pokemon, Venusaur. Initially I used a Substitute Leech Seed Venusaur set, but later upon BKC's recommendation switched to a Physically bulky Growth set.

    I have tested many other Pokemon in various slot's, but this version has proved to be most successful for me.


    [​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Recover

    The star of the team. Latias has always been under appreciated in my opinion, as it can sweep countless teams easily. Substitute Latias particularly, can be exceedingly deadly and is able to setup on a large portion of the metagame. Additionally, most of Latias's best counters lack reliable recovery, making them easy to wear down. The bulk in this set is ridiculous. To put it in perspective, this guy can setup on Scarf Jirachi and is a death sentence to most VoltTurn teams once opposing Tyranitar's have been removed.

    Latias benefits so much from being on a Sun team, as troublesome threats like Scizor are checked numerous times over. Latias also helps the team greatly by being a fantastic answer to Stall and a great Pokemon against VoltTurn teams. Latias truly is a fantastic Pokemon, and really shines on a Sun team, and I am surprised it has not seen more usage in this wonderful weather.

    [​IMG]
    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 56 HP / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
    IVs: 31/2/30/31/31/31
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Magma Storm
    - Sunny Day
    - SolarBeam
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    This guy is the reason this team works so well. When I was looking for interesting sets to add and make my team unique, Tobes showed me this beauty. At that time this set was almost unheard of and was not expected at all and the surprise factor in this set has won me more games than I can count. This Heatran EV spread may look a bit confusing, but is amazing at winning the weather war. The EV spread allows Heatran to outspeed all non-Scarfed Politoeds, while maximizing his attacking power. The rest of the EV's are put in bulk to help him take hits better.

    Like I said earlier, this Heatran is amazing at winning the weather war, here are a few scenario's on how he works:
    Defensive Politoed (open)

    Generally when an opposing player see's Leftovers on Heatran they feel free to switch in their Politoed, thinking this is an easy opportunity to change the weather and gain momentum. Even if you have revealed Magma Storm, they will think you are the standard TrapperTran set, and think a few Scalds will scare you away. Once Politoed is trapped in Magma Storm, the weather war is essentially over. After a Magma Storm, you Sunny Day so the opposing Politoed's Scald does minimal damage. From that point you Solarbeam away. If the Politoed somehow manages to stall Magma Storm trap turns with Protect, then it will most likely be too weak to do any real damage later in the match.

    This strategy also works vs opposing Tentacruel's and most other bulky waters.


    Tyranitar (open)

    Playing Tyranitar is a lot more simple than playing Politoed. Simply get a Magma Storm in against Tyranitar, and then switch to Dugtrio on the Attack/SR


    Scarf Politoed (open)

    This is the toughest weather inducer for Heatran to deal with, but can still be dealt with. Once Politoed is hit by Magma Storm, you take a look at their team and see which Pokemon on our team will be least useful and then sack it to the incoming Hydro Pump. Dugtrio can then come in and revenge. Of course this is not necessary, and should only be done if winning the weather war is worth losing a Pokemon.



    [​IMG]
    Dugtrio (M) @ Focus Sash Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    IVs: 21/31/0/31/0/31
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Reversal
    - Toxic

    A great Pokemon for any Sun Team to consider. It can trap many threatening Pokemon including, but not limited to, Tyranitar, Terrakion, and Heatran. Two of those being Latias's biggest counters. Dugtrio also gives my team one of the most valuable entry hazards, Stealth Rocks. Dugtrio is also my primary answer to CM Roar/Reflect Latias, as he can give it a quick Toxic and watch as the rest of my team slowly stalls it out. Combined with Heatran, Dugtrio makes a fantastic weather winning core, and is a huge part of the reason this team functions so well.

    [​IMG]
    Venusaur (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Growth
    - Energy Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Sludge Bomb

    Originally, I used a Substitute Leech Seed Venusaur in this spot, but found the lack of offense to be dangerous at times. BKC then recommended this spread to me. The EV's allow Venusaur to always out speed Choice Scarf Terrakion in the Sun. The remaining EV's are put into bulk letting Venusaur take Choice Banded Bullet Punch's better from Scizor. Other than being my primary Water-Type resist, Venusaur also serves as my secondary Win condition. Venusaur and Latias share many of the same checks and counters, letting either one wear down these checks. This aids the chance of a late game sweep by either Pokemon. With Heatran being trapped by Dugtrio, a fully Special Venusaur really has the chance to shine. Venusaur also gives my team some much needed Speed and is able to pick off weakened threats easily.

    [​IMG]
    Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 240 HP / 216 Def / 52 SAtk
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Rapid Spin

    Like the other Pokemon on my team Forretress serves an irreplaceable role. In this case keeping Stealth Rocks of my field. Keeping Stealth Rocks off isn't only crucial for Ninetales(who greatly appreciates it) but also for Pokemon like Dugtrio. Stealth Rocks would break his sash and prevent him from checking so many Pokemon (Tyranitar included). Forretress lays down very valuable hazards for me, Toxic Spikes. In the rain Heatran can lure, and kill opposing Tentacruel's leaving most Rain Stall teams without a spinner. Once Tentacruel is KO'd, I can start laying Toxic Spikes, which are my most reliable way to beat Blissey/Chansey. Hidden Power Ice is on Forretress solely for its ability to beat Acrobatics Gliscor, who could otherwise run right through my team. Forretress has some very useful resistances, and provides fantastic momentum. With Volt Switch, Forretress can switch out of its standard counters, like Heatran and Tyranitar, and easily go into Dugtrio to trap and KO. Forretress gives my team backbone that is very valuable and neccesary.

    [​IMG]
    Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 248 HP / 160 SDef / 100 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
    - Roar

    Many people have said how terrible Ninetales is, but I really do not understand why. Ninetales is fairly bulky, can burn countless Pokemon, and also acts as a phazer for this team. Of course Ninetales most valuable role is the never ending Sun, but I consider Ninetales a very valuable team player for its other qualities. The EV spread on Ninetales is very important, as it allows Ninetales to outspeed and burn/KO opposing Mamoswine's who have the potential to run through my team. The rest of the EV's were placed in Ninetales bulk, letting me switch into more attacks as well as helping me phaze Pokemon like opposing Substitute Latias and Substitute Hydreigon out. Will-O-Wisp has amazing utility in burning troublesome Pokemon like Tyranitar so it can't lock me in with Pursuit. Hidden Power Rock is mainly used for breaking Air Balloon Heatran's Balloons, as he can be very threatening if left floating. Hidden Power Rock was also suggested to me by The Great Mighty Doom, to help mitigate my weakness to Offensive Volcarona.


    Closing Comments:

    I would like to thank US East for giving me plenty of tests and helpful suggestions. Lunar also deserves a special shout out for testing with me for hours, to make sure the team has little to no holes and for being a great guy to be around. Dracule Mihawk and Cometk also get special mention. I would finally like to thank all of you guys for taking the time to read through my RMT.

    This team has easily been one of my favorite teams to ever use. It has a somewhat standard look to it, getting the opponent into a confident haze only to be surprised by some of the sets ingenuity. I want to thank you all for taking your time to read through my RMT and hopefully you enjoyed it. I do not plan to update this team for BW2, as I want to start the new metagame fresh. The true purpose behind this RMT was to show people that VoltTurn isn't the only way to succeed in BW1, and that creativity is still alive and well.


    Importable
    :

    *Note that Heatran and Ninetales IV spreads should be the ones containing 31 Speed IVs
    Code:
    
    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Recover
    
    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 56 HP / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Magma Storm
    - Sunny Day
    - SolarBeam
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    
    Dugtrio (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Reversal
    - Toxic
    
    Venusaur (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Growth
    - Energy Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Sludge Bomb
    
    Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 240 HP / 216 Def / 52 SAtk
    Relaxed Nature
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Rapid Spin
    
    Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 248 HP / 160 SDef / 100 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
    - Roar
    
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  2. Lunar.

    Lunar.

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    The team is great bro! Also thanks for the Shout out!

    I used this team plenty of times on ladder and only lost one of the twenty games I played, and that was just to me playing poorly that game. I also used this team in a few small tournaments and it never failed me. I'm really sad to see you aren't going to make it into a BW2 team, but that's cool since I can do that and steal the credit!! In the end its a very solid team and its hard to break since you almost always get your weather up thanks to your Heatran's amazing set, just sucks when you miss that Magma Storm. Great team again and I hope you don't mind me stealing it for future tournaments!

    Ludisc'd
  3. SuckaPunch123

    SuckaPunch123

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    Hey DU, excellent sun team you have here, there are a few things that I see that might give you a hard time. One of these being chancey as she walls your team and just starts spreading status + seismic tossing you, some options you could try are putting Psyshock > Sub on latias. Putting Seed bomb > energy ball on venu could work as well.
    PS. Ebay, I see you taught that Weepingbell well :]
  4. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
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    Thanks man glad you've enjoyed using the team :D

    Chansey is more of a on paper weakness, and can usually be played around in the actual game. Chansey is mainly used on rain stall nowadays, and like I mentioned it is /easy/ to trap their tentacruel. After that I can usually just lay tspikes down and stall it out or trap variants without toxic with Dugtrio and eq/reversal to get heavy damage.

    thanks for the comments guys
  5. Dezza Laa

    Dezza Laa

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    I have to say that this team is very well thought out. Your use of Heatran + Duggy is very clever.

    The only thing I would change is giving Ninetales enough speed to outrun Jolly Mamoswine, since it can be a danger to your team. Otherwise this is a fantastic team.
  6. zzazzdsa

    zzazzdsa

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    Solid team you have here; pretty well thought out.

    I do have some changes for you though.

    First and foremost, WHY THE FUCK AREN'T YOU USING GIGA DRAIN ON VENUSAUR
    Venasaur really appreciates the recovery from the blobs and tyranitar at times, and it only costs you like 5 BP.

    In addition, invest speed EVs into ninetales to outspeed jolly mamoswine, which looks very threatening to you.

    I would also give dugtrio stone edge, so you can revenge opposing volcaronas should they get a boost.

    Other than that, I can't think of anything to change. GJ with the team!
  7. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
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    With the given EV and IV spread ninetales does infact outspeed jolly mamoswine (and gets a jump point in speed).

    Also giga drain + chlorophyll Venusaur is illegal in BW1 as far as I know, meaning I can't use it. Toxic on dugtrio is also surprisingly neccesary.
  8. PDC

    PDC payback
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    DAMN that is a solid team. Great job east did this year, and This team deserves a rate. First I suggest trying more speed on Ninetails to outrun Jolly Mamoswine. I can also suggest running a little more speed to outrun base 101's, but thats just an option.

    luvdisc
  9. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    There is actually a move tutor in B2W2 that teaches giga drain! therefore it is a legal option, i would say run giga drain as well.

    Anyways, good team, luvdisc :).
  10. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
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    As I have posted in the RMT, and in that post itself (somewhat), I do not plan to update this team for BW2 as I wish to start the new metagame fresh. But if I ever do update this team, I will keep that in mind.

    Thanks for your comments
  11. Jets

    Jets

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    hp ground volc looks like a baddie : [ good thing it isnt common :D

    edit: good team doe
  12. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    Hey dragonuser, I really like this team and I'm a huge fan of the Heatran set you're using.

    On Dugtrio I recommend a Hasty Nature with 21 HP, 0 Def and 0 SDef IVs. The HP IVs give Dugtrio 201 HP, meaning that he can take 2 Seismic Toss' from Blissey / Chansey and then hit back with a max power Reversal. The Hasty Nature and 0 IVs in bulk make it easier for dugtrio to be taken down to it's sash and have a max power reversal, there's really no point in bulk on Dugtrio, even resisted hits are often a 2HKO and Dugtrio's just there to trap what it needs to trap and get up rocks.

    Offensive Volcarona does look like a threat as Jets pointed out, you may want to try Toxic on Ninetales, because your team is very physically bulky probably over Will-O-Wisp, or Hidden Power [Ice] but then you'd be walled by Heatran, so it's up to you. You may be concerned about not being able to burn Mamoswine, but Fire Blast OHKOs in BW1 anyway. Another thing you could try if you want to keep Will-O-Wisp is Hidden Power [Rock] over Hidden Power [Ice] on Ninetales. This may seem like a weird suggestion but this prevents Ninetales from being set up fodder for Volcarona, Ninetales lives a +1 Hidden Power [Ground] from Volcarona. A min damage Hidden Power [Rock] from Ninetales while Volcarona is at +1 SDef as well as another one while Volcarona is at +2 puts Offensive Volcarona into KO range from a min damage EQ from Dugtrio even after those turns of Leftovers, guarenteeing you beat it 1v1 if it tries to set up on Ninetales. Hidden Power [Rock] still breaks Heatran's Air Balloon, and makes Dragon's only slightly more dangerous. Obviously Ninetales isn't really set up fodder for Volcarona in the first place because of Roar, but that's a very temporary solution, your opponent can predict that and hit you with a Hidden Power [Ground] right off the bat and then you could phase Volcarona out to an unfavourable matchup, killing your momentum. Last pokemon Volcarona would also be a big problem if you're not careful.

    There are definetly better set-up fodder's on your team, however, and the best solution to Volcarona witout changing a member on your team and messing up your synergy, would be to put Rock Slide or Stone Edge over Toxic on Dugtrio. This makes you weaker to CM Latias but it's really up to you to decide which is the lesser of two evils. Rock Slide OHKOs all 0/0 Volcarona and is the more reliable option, whereas Stone Edge takes care of all Volcarona and has more attack power in general, but relying on it's shaky accuracy can be dangerous. If you do choose to take this suggestion then my earlier suggestion of Toxic on Ninetales would be even more adviseable.

    Anyway, I hope my rate helped and GL with the team, Luvdisc'd :)
  13. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
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    TGMD, thanks for the great rate!

    Hidden Power Rock actually sounds like the perfect thing for my team, thanks so much for the idea. And yea I already used 21 HP IVS on dugtrio, and I will definetly use a Hasty nature as well, as it can really help dugtrio get to its sash. I would prefer to keep toxic on Dugtrio, and I think that adding Hidden Power Rock like you suggested would really help mitigate the issue. Volcarona has always been annoying, but if I play well manageable, I think your suggestion will really make it easier to play around Volca. Thanks!

    also to go along with TGMD's suggestion of HP rock, I have changed ninetales spread to 248 HP / 160 SDef / 100 Spd, as there isn't a HP rock spread with 31 speed ivs (as far as I know of)
  14. Funkasaurus

    Funkasaurus i know what is next, but you won't believe me
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    Hello user Dragonloser, I mean user. :)

    This team is as solid as a sun team can get. Can't really think of many revisions without changing the team too much. Perhaps Spikes > Toxic Spikes on Forretress. Other than that, I can't think of anything else. Solid team, friend. Congrats on second place in wcop. :)
  15. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
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    Hey DU my friend. Awesome sun team. I remember you using this in Battle Royale.

    One suggestion I would make is to go with Stone Edge over Toxic on Dugtrio. This will make you have a bit easier time with Dragonite, not the standard DD Lum, but the rare mixed LO can give you a bit of a hassle, since you really can't safely switch anything in. This is pretty rare though, but it also will prevent giving Nite a free Dragon Dance.

    I would also go with Funk's suggestion and throw in Spikes over Toxic Spikes, since Toxic Spikes is less effective than it used to be in the current metagame.

    Awesome team though man. Luvdisc'ed~
  16. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude "The Phone-Post King"
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    Hey there awesome sun team dragonuser!

    I dont really see the use of Toxic on such a weak pokemon in Dugtrio if only because he will not get much chances to Toxic pokemon and you run Toxic Spikes on your Forretress. I think a much better option would be Memento>Toxic as MikeDecIsHere pointed out Mixed LO Dragonite can be a little problematic as well as Mix Salamence due to them being able to threaten your team with a powerful Dragon Claw or Outrage and hit you only dragon resists with Earthqauke and Fire Blast. Memento effectivly halves there offensive stats giving your Venasaur and Latias easier set up oppurtunities. I believe Memento is better then Stone Edge because while Stone Edge may be able to take on Dragonite and Salamence it can sometimes miss and Memento lets you set up with your own sweepers often times resulting in a sweep.

    There is really not much else to be said as everything i can think of has already been mentioned and this team kicks ass. Good Luck and i hope i helped!


    tl:dr
    Show Hide


    Dugtrio
    .Memento--->Toxic



    ~Superpowerdude

    Edit: Sorry i didnt notice this before that memento and stealth rock are illegal in Bw1 I would reccomend Stone Edge then
  17. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
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    Awesome, I'm really glad I was able to help make this team even better than it already was :) Also, sadly Memento is actually illegal combined with Stealth Rocks on Dugtrio in BW1.
  18. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    Hey DU, this team is definitely the most balanced and effective Sun team I've ever seen, and I have a total of zero suggestions to help improve it. Really, I don't think it can get much better, as you cover all of the common threats that Sun teams struggle with. The only problem I can really see would be a CM Recover 2 attacks Lati@s, as Ninetales can't stay alive to phaze it forever, but once you get a +2 with Venusaur they're not an issue. Again, nice team and Luvdisc'd. Glad you didn't use this in WCoP finals or we could've gotten smashed.
  19. BKC

    BKC
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    This team isn't too terrible, I guess...you're still a noob though. Also, I'm coming for your sisters.

    I took out Catch 33 [my Sun team I used against Stallion in round 2; as you know, it's extremely similar to yours] and have been using it in the new metagame; you might want to do the same with this team since it's even more effective than it was in BW1. Latias and Tobes Tran are absolutely fantastic in the current meta. The former is one of the best Keldeo counters [on a somewhat related note, Keldeo is an overrated piece of shit, don't use it], and the latter shits on rain teams, which are running all over the place because of the new Tornadus / Thundurus formes.

    Latias would benefit a lot from max speed; with max HP, it's more than bulky enough for this team, and its Speed tier is excellent because it outruns so many of the new threats everyone is spamming. With a 350 Speed stat, it can check dangerous mons such as Keldeo and Thundurus-T.

    I would also give Passho Berry a shot on Tran, as it lets you beat the only Politoed that currently threatens you, Scarf, by cutting the power of Hydro Pump, which in turn lets you rape it with Sunny Day + SolarBeam.

    Venusaur can also ditch shitty Energy Ball as its Grass STAB and use Giga Drain, which lets it beat the pink blobs 1-on-1. I'd use Life Orb as the item [use 232 HP EVs if you do this, since it allows for the most bulk while having the best LO number - when the stat ends with 9 it takes the least amount of recoil; also, put the Defense EVs into Special Attack, near-max HP is really all the bulk Venu needs] since the 30% boost to its attacks is nice for Venu, since he's not exactly a powerhouse, and Giga Drain can heal off the recoil, which means it won't be easy to wear down.

    other than that, this team is gr8 stuff!!! gj du u fkn rule :toast:

    ps: usa east wcop champions 2013 lets make it happen
  20. VN.

    VN. the birds pt. 1
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    fagonuser the big smogon tuffie now :)

    Anyways this team is pretty based and shit. I love SubCM Latias and Toxic Spikes combo, and made a team with the combination also, although it was more semi stall than offense [maybe it inspired this one :? if i ever gave it to you <3]. CM [and TR to an extent] reuniclus is sort of annoying for this team if its paired with something like ScarfTar [which is sort of common I guess?] since it can trap Latias and assure sun won't always be up. I guess you can always play really smart with Dugtrio and just blast away at it with sun boosted atks once ttar is killed, but I think it would be easier if you had hypnosis on Ninetales, it's accuracy is kinda shitty but it can cripple rank and make it easier to handle since you can roar it out before it wakes up. sorry if this rate is shit but u do seem kinda ranku weak, still I love the team and it owns like u <333
  21. Razza

    Razza

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    You lose to chansey, refresh>substitute prevents this happening.
  22. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Pyramid Kingis a Past WCoP Winner
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    Toxic Spikes are actually pretty useful on this team, but yea thanks :)

    Stone Edge on trio has always been in the back of my mind, it has just always been outweighed by the utility of toxic. I will still give it a try though, thanks man.

    Yea like doom said, memento + SR is illegal in BW2, and w/o toxic I am really hit a lot harder by non sub variants of Latias.

    Yea I can only phaze so much. Generally I try to phaze it until it is one of my opponents last few mons, and then aggressively try to setup latias/venusaur. But yea thanks for the comments :)

    Ugh fine noob I may think about using this team in BW2, and if I do I'll definitely use your suggestions.

    P.S I'm an only child u weirdo :(

    look who we have here.... :). Glad to see your back man, and yea CM reuniclus can be really deadly if I play badly with Latias. Generally, if my opponent has a Reuniclus on their team, I will preserve Latias till when its absolutely necessary, and play very safely with it. But yea if I mess up with Latias, CM Reuniclus setting up on the wrong Pokemon can be very deadly.

    Like I said earlier, Chansey can be beaten by this team. However if my opponent knows my Heatran set, then this becomes much more difficult. Thats why I decided to post this team after any real competitive use of the team had died down.
  23. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    Oh also a random thing I forgot to mention, use 2 Atk IVs on Heatran instead of 30, you keep a base 70 power HP Ice while taking minimum damage from confusion :>
  24. Razza

    Razza

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    I dont see how chansey can be beaten, the standard softboiled/seismic toss/toxic/filler takes on every single one of your pokemon and wins. If its fourth move is heal bell (pretty common on rain stall) then its most likely a 6-0. A competent player ( with a competent team) with chansey beats this team every time without hax. I understand there is an element of matchup in BW but when one small move change (refresh > substitute) turns an auto lose into set up bait its a no brainer IMO.
  25. rairyan

    rairyan

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    Love the team DU. :)

    Latias is a sweet sweeper and is good the way it is so got nothing to say about that.

    I really like heatran since you have sunny day solorbeam and hp ice to kill dragons, I like that heatran has sunny day so you can control the weather.

    dugtrio: you have pretty much said everything so no need to comment on that.

    vena is so great i like that you you are using energyball over solor because sun may not always be up so that is very smart.

    got ntn else really to say but great team hope it gets rmt achive :)

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