1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Hippowdon (BW2 Revamp)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by alexwolf, Feb 11, 2013.

  1. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,954
    [​IMG]
    The real SAND KING!!!

    [Overview]

    <p>In BW2, a reliable way to keep rain off the field is more important than ever, and this is where Hippowdon comes in. Hippowdon is the single most durable weather inducer, as it has titanic physical bulk and reliable recovery. Unlike Tyranitar, Hippowdon doesn't fear Dugtrio, making it even harder for the opponent's weather team to take Hippowdon down. Aside from being a useful asset in weather wars, Hippowdon is one of the best physical walls in OU, capable of going toe-to-toe with some of the most notorious physical attackers in OU such as Terrakion, Dragonite, and Lucario.</p>

    <p>Despite its defensive prowess and ability to combat weather teams, Hippowdon is not without its flaws. Its mediocre special bulk and weaknesses to common special attacking types, namely Water, Grass, and Ice, leave it exposed to Pokemon with such attacks. Hippowdon is also quite slow and will need to take two hits when switching in before he gets a chance to do anything, limiting the amount of switch-in opportunities it gets. Finally, even though Hippowdon's Attack is big for a defensive Pokemon, it is easy to set up on with Pokemon that have Taunt or don't mind Earthquake.</p>

    <p>All in all, Hippowdon is a superb defensive Pokemon that provides valuable team support with few weaknesses that can be covered by its teammates and can cause big trouble to any team not prepared for it.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Wall
    move 1: Slack Off
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stealth Rock
    move 4: Whirlwind / Ice Fang
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Sand Stream
    nature: Careful / Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Hippowdon has excellent physical bulk even when uninvested, so with the added special bulk Hippowdon becomes a great mixed wall that is difficult for many special attackers to OHKO without a strong STAB move. This set is also probably the best counter to any Calm Mind Jirachi, which is annoying for any team to deal with, and can switch into defensive variants of Ninetales and Politoed with relative ease, giving fierce competition in the weather war. Despite the lack of Defense investment, Hippowdon can still handle many physical attackers, such as Dragonite, unboosted Terrakion, and Toxicroak, well. Earthquake, backed up by a good base 112 Attack and STAB, hits any Pokemon without lot of physical bulk and not resistant or immune to it hard. Stealth Rock is a necessity for any team, and Hippowdon finds ample opportunities to set it up against the multitude of Pokemon that it walls. Everything that doesn't mind Earthquake is phazed by Whirlwind, making it very hard for stat boosters to set up in front of Hippowdon, but Ice Fang allows Hippowdon to immediately take care of Pokemon that it checks, such as Dragonite, Salamence, and Landorus-T; it also allows Hippowdon to break the Air Balloon that many Heatran carry.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Careful nature is the best choice to avoid certain OHKOs and 2HKOs from specific Pokemon&mdash;Volcarona, Latias, Thundurus-T, and Jolteon&mdash;but Impish is a perfectly viable option for teams that have those threats covered. Sand Force can be used for any team that doesn't want sandstorm, such as sun teams, where Hippowdon handles many of the Pokemon that give them trouble, including Terrakion and physical Dragon-types. Toxic cripples many popular switch-ins to Hippowdon, such as Landorus-T, Rotom-W, and defensive Politoed, making it a good option if Hippowdon has a moveslot to spare. Rock Slide and Stone Edge are decent alternatives to Ice Fang as they still hit most Flying-types for good damage, while being particularly useful against Thundurus-T and Volcarona, two Pokemon that Hippowdon checks well. Rock Slide is more reliable and has more PP, whereas Stone Edge can OHKO most Volcarona after sandstorm damage and Thundurus-T after sandstorm and Stealth Rock damage.</p>

    <p>Hippowdon's best teammates are those that can take strong Water-, Ice-, and Grass-type attacks as well as very powerful special attacks such as Latios's Draco Meteor. Specially defensive Celebi is a great partner, as it counters most Water-types as well as Breloom, Life Orb Latios, and Sheer Force Landorus. Latias has similar resistances to Celebi and handles most of the Pokemon that Celebi does, making it an equally valuable partner for Hippowdon. Rapid Spin support is essential for Hippowdon because most hazard setters, namely Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Forretress, easily set up on it. Starmie and Forretress both have decent defensive synergy with Hippowdon and protect the team from hazards. This set also appreciates Pokemon that can take hits from or at least check powerful physical attackers that can break through Hippowdon, such as Choice Band Terrakion and Swords Dance Lucario, so Gengar, Jellicent, and defensive Gyarados pair well with Hippowdon. Spikes and Toxic Spikes setters are natural candidates for teammates of Hippowdon, as its ability to easily switch in and start phazing with Whirlwind quickly racks up entry hazard damage. Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Roserade are all good Pokemon for this role and have good overall synergy with Hippowdon. Finally, a Ghost-type Pokemon to protect those hazards is useful, and Jellicent is the best Pokemon for this role, covering Hippowdon's weaknesses, except for Grass-type attacks, well.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Wall
    move 1: Slack Off
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stealth Rock
    move 4: Ice Fang / Whirlwind
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Sand Stream
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set trades the ability to handle some special Pokemon and to fare better against weather inducers to become the most physically bulky Pokemon in OU. Hippowdon is able to wall the strongest physical attackers in OU, such as non-Choice Band Terrakion, Dragon Dance Dragonite, and Swords Dance Lucario. Earthquake hits many of the Pokemon that Hippowdon walls for super effective damage and is a strong attack that prevents any offensive Pokemon not resistant or immune to it from setting up on Hippowdon. Hippowdon can force many Pokemon out and has reliable recovery, thus making for a very reliable Stealth Rock setter. Ice Fang hits what Earthquake can't, including Dragonite, Salamence, and Landorus-T, while Whirlwind prevents anything that doesn't care about Hippowdon's attacks from setting up and works well with entry hazards.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Toxic is useful for crippling Rotom-W, Politoed, and Landorus-T, all of which are common switch-ins to Hippowdon. Sand Force can be used on teams that don't want sandstorm, such as alternate weather teams. This set doesn't need any other dedicated physical walls as teammates, as it covers the physical side very well. What it needs are partners that can deal with the few physical Pokemon that can get past Hippowdon, namely Gyarados, Mamoswine, and Breloom. Rotom-W covers the first two Pokemon and has good defensive synergy with Hippowdon, while specially defensive Celebi counters Breloom, checks Gyarados with Perish Song, and handles most special attacks aimed at Hippowdon. Speaking of Celebi, Pokemon that can sponge special attacks are obligatory teammates, so specially defensive Ferrothorn and Amoonguss are good choices as well. Lastly, Rapid Spin support greatly aids Hippowdon, as the common entry hazard setters all easily set up on it, hindering its effectiveness as a physical wall. Starmie and Forretress are the best options; Starmie can take some weaker Water-type attacks and check Gyarados and Mamoswine, while Forretress checks Mamoswine and sets up entry hazards that Hippowdon can take advantage of with Whirlwind.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Hippowdon can take the role of a tank and take advantage of its Dream World ability, Sand Force, by using a set with max Attack and HP and a moveset of Earthquake, Stone Edge, Ice Fang or Superpower, and Slack Off, but it is usually outclassed by Landorus-T and Garchomp, both of which can actually outspeed Pokemon and are better at keeping momentum. Rock Slide or Stone Edge can be used on the physically defensive set to deal with Gyarados, Volcarona, and Thundurus-T better, but this set has no business staying in against them anyway. Finally, Stockpile makes Hippowdon very difficult to OHKO after a few boosts, but powerful special attackers still 2HKO it, and defensive Pokemon can Toxic it or phaze it out while Hippowdon itself can't do much damage back, making Stockpile a gimmick at best.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Xatu is probably the best counter to Hippowdon, as it is immune to Earthquake, bounces back Stealth Rock, and has Toxic to put Hippowdon on a timer. The easiest way to bring Hippowdon down is with special Water-, Ice-, and Grass-type attacks. Rotom-W, Celebi, Breloom, Taunt Gyarados, defensive Politoed, and SubRoost Kyurem-B can all switch into Hippowdon with ease and force it out. There are more special attackers that can dent Hippowdon, if not OHKO it, such as Keldeo and offensive Starmie, but they have to avoid Earthquake, which does serious damage to them. Other problematic Pokemon for Hippowdon are those that don't mind its attacks and can set up hazards or cripple it with Toxic such as Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Bronzong. Hippowdon is often the target of lure strategies due to its resilience and difficulty to bring down, so using mixed attackers, such as Salamence, Ice Beam Tyranitar, and Grass Knot Thundurus-T, is a good way to eliminate or weaken Hippowdon. Finally, Trick, Toxic, burns, and accumulated damage from Spikes are all good ways to hamper Hippowdon's ability to function as a wall.</p>
  2. BKC

    BKC
    is a Tutoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Castle Valetis a Past WCoP Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 16 Champion

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,666
    I like Impish on SpD Hippo, as it still takes everything it needs to on the special side [it takes one Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor] but the extra defense is very much appreciated. Deserves a slash at least.
  3. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,159
    I agree with BKC. In fact, I'd say it deserves the first slash, as it lets Hippo take on threats like Life Orb Toxicroak much more efficiently, while retaining the ability to take unboosted HP Ices and such rather well.
  4. blarajan

    blarajan holla ladies #£14000 #bling #sparkle #bitchesonmydick
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Little Cup Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    3,725
    I disagree with Sand Force being a slash. OO imo or AC at most.
  5. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    840
    I saw this in Hippowdon's current analysis.

    So the 12 SpD EVs are designed to take the old Expert Belt Landorus's HP Ice, but those are almost non-existent now. Less than 9% of Landorus even run Expert Belt anymore, while the most common variants now are the special Sheer Force sets (which does a 70% minimum with HP Ice). Meanwhile, Hippowdon needs at least 248 Def EVs to guarantee that he will not be 2HKOd by CB Terrakion's Close Combat, which is considerably more common. In fact, it might even be beneficial to maximize the Def stat since that set is primarily a physical tank.

    So my question is, are the 12 SpD EVs still worth it?
  6. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,954
    Everything you guys said was correct so i implemented all suggestions. Slashed Impish after Careful on the Mixed Wall, might slash it first if given good enough reasons...
  7. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,145
    I prefer Careful on the Mixed Wall to deal with stuff like Volcarona and Thundurus-T, the latter of which is really important to find a semi-reliable switch-in for on balanced and stall teams. If you use Careful, a +2 LO HP Ice only has a 43.75% chance to OHKO (2 consecutive HP Ices only have a 2.34% chance to KO), which is a lot more than most other mons can say. This is another reason why I like Rock Slide, because Stealth Rock + Rock Slide + 2 Life Orb recoil turns is usually enough to kill Thundurus, unless you get a pretty low damage roll.

    That being said, it's certainly a trade-off, because you need Impish to avoid the 2HKO from CBTar Crunch.
  8. BKC

    BKC
    is a Tutoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Castle Valetis a Past WCoP Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 16 Champion

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,666
    Forgot to mention that Toxic is good in the fourth slot, it catches common switchins like Politoed/Rotom-W/Landorus-T. It also helps against other Hippo!

    All the reasoning Impish > Careful needs is that it has extra defense [important for taking on CBTar] while tanking everything that it needs to on the special side except like Modest Celebi's Leaf Storm or unboosted Keldeo's Hydro Pump...but Hippo really shouldn't be staying in on those mons anyway, and I don't think it needs to live any attack stronger than Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor, which Impish can still do.
  9. yee

    yee
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,110
    - Competition from Donphan, Garchomp, and Landorus-T

    I'd say it's a long shot to say Hippo has any competition (it turns a lot of weatherless teams into usable ones), let alone from Donphan which is borderline in even deserving an analysis. Lando-T is more of a utility check and Garchomp is an offensive SR setter, which makes the number of situations where they directly compete with Hippo low.

    I will also say I always prefer Impish on Hippo because I've never had a borderline experience specially while appreciating the extra bulk, but it's just my past use and various Hydreigon / obvious weather starter calcs talking.
  10. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,954
    Here are some calcs vs Impish (1) and Careful (2) SpD Hippo:

    - 252 SpA Timid LO Latias's DM vs (1): 61.19 - 72.38%, and at -2: 30.71 - 36.19%. 54.69% chance to 2HKO after SR
    ...Same vs (2): 55.71 - 65.95%, and at -2: 28.09 - 33.33%. Guaranteed 3HKO after SR

    - 252 SpA Timid +1 LO Volcarona's Fire Blast vs (1): 90.95 - 107.14%, 43.75% chance to OHKO
    ...Same vs (2): 82.61 - 97.38%, guaranteed 2HKO

    - 252 SpA Timid LO Thundurus's HP Ice vs (1): 50.23 - 59.52%, 78.52% chance to 2HKO w/o SR
    ...Same vs (2): 45.23 - 53.8%, 2.34% chance to 2HKO w/o SR

    - 252 SpA Timid Specs Jolteon's HP Ice vs (1): 47.14 - 55.71%, 79.3% chance to 2HKO after SR
    ...Same vs (2): 42.85 - 50.95%, 4.69% chance to 2HKO after SR


    There are probably some other calcs too, but those are enough to prove a point. The point is that mixed Hippo is an excllent switch-in to all of those, and so it needs Careful to do its job best. So Careful gets slashed first, unless someone provides some really important OHKO/2HKOes that Hippo avoids from physical attackers that he is supposed to check/wall.

    Also i added Toxic in the AC of both sets, as it is really usefull if you have a slot for it, and also added added Stone Edge and Rock Slide in the AC of the SpD set, to better combat Volcarona and Thund-T. Removed the parts where other Ground-types give it competition too, as Hippo is undeniably the best defensive Ground-type in OU, so no need to be shy about it. Anything else guys, or can i start writing this?
  11. BKC

    BKC
    is a Tutoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Castle Valetis a Past WCoP Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 16 Champion

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,666
    yea just mention that if you have those stronger spatkers covered, impish will give you some nice physical bulk, which is appreciated, most notably against cbtar.

    mention spdef celebi as a partner b/c it checks rotomw/toed/breloom etc and it also counters special lando :toast:
  12. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,954
    Will mention Celebi for sure, don't worry BKC. A lot of partners will be mentioned in the write-up, as right now the bullet points are very generic.
  13. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,954
    This is written and rdy for the final QC check!
  14. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,651
    Ladies and gents.

    [​IMG]
  15. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,545
    SpD Hippo forever!

    Add green Remove red comments below. (Amcheck)

    Show Hide

    [Overview]¶

    <p>With the advent of BW2, a reliable way to keep rain off the field has become more important than ever and this is where Hippowdon comes in. Hippowdon is the single most durable weather inducer, as it has titanic physical bulk and reliable recovery. Unlike Tyranitar, Hippowdon doesn't fear Dugtrio, making it even harder for the opponent's weather team to take Hippowdon down. Aside from a useful asset in weather wars, Hippowdon is one of the best physical walls in OU, capable of going toe with toe with the most notorious physical attackers in OU such as Terrakion, Dragonite, and Lucario.</p>¶

    <p>Despite its defensive prowess and its ability to combat weather teams, Hippowdon is not without its flaws. Its mediocre special bulk and weakness to common special attacking types, namely Water, Grass, and Ice, leave it exposed to Pokemon with such attacks. Hippowdon is also quite slow and will need to take two hits when switching in before he gets a chance to do anything, limiting the amount of switch-in oportunities it gets. Finally, even though Hippowdon's Attack stat is big for a defensive Pokemon, it is easy to setup on with Pokemon that have Taunt or don't mind Earthquake.</p>¶

    <p>All in all, Hippowdon is a superb defensive Pokemon that provides valuable team support with a few weaknesses that can be covered by its teammates, and it can cause big troubles to any team not prepared for it.</p>¶

    [SET]¶
    name: Mixed Wall¶
    move 1: Slack Off¶
    move 2: Earthquake¶
    move 3: Stealth Rock¶
    move 4: Whirlwind / Ice Fang¶
    item: Leftovers ¶
    ability: Sand Stream¶
    nature: Careful / Impish¶
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD¶

    [SET COMMENTS]¶

    <p>Hippowdon has excellent physical bulk even when uninvested, so with the added special bulk, Hippowdon becomes a great mixed wall that is difficult for many special attackers to OHKO without a strong STAB move. This set is also probably the best counter to any Calm Mind Jirachi, which is annoying for any team to deal with, and can switch into defensive variants of Ninetales and Politoed with relative ease, giving fierce competition in the weather war. Despite the lack of Defense investement, Hippowdon can still handle many physical attackers well, such as Dragonite, unboosted Terrakion, and Toxcicroak. Earthquake, backed up by a good 112 Base Attack stat and STAB hits hard any Pokemon without large physical bulk and not resistant or immune to it. Stealth Rock is a neccesity for any team, and Hippowdon finds ample opportunities to set it up against the multitude of Pokemon that it walls. Everything that doesn't mind Earthquake is phazed by Whirlwind, making it very hard for stat boosters to set up in front of Hippowdon, but Ice Fang allows Hippowdon to immediately take care of Pokemon that it checks, such as Dragonite, Salamence, and Landorus-T; it also allows Hippowdon to break the Air Balloon that many Heatran carry.</p>¶

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]¶

    <p>A Careful nature is the best choice to avoid certain OHKOs and 2HKOs from specific Pokemon&mdash;Volcarona, Latias, Thundurus-T, and Jolteon&mdash;but Impish is a perfectly viable option for teams that have those threats covered. Sand Force can be used for any team that doesn't want Sandstorm, such as sun teams, where Hippowdon handles many of the Pokemon that give them trouble, inclcuding Terrakion and physical Dragon-types. Toxic cripples many popular switch-ins to Hippowdon, such as Landorus-T, Rotom-W, and defensive Politoed, making it a good option if Hippowdon has a moveslot to spare. Rock Slide and Stone Edge are decent alternatives to Ice Fang as they still hit most Flying-types for good damage, while being particularly useful against Thundurus-T and Volcarona, two Pokemon that Hippowdon checks well. Rock Slide is more reliable and has more ppPP, where Stone Edge can OHKO most Volcarona after Sandstorm damage, and most Thundurus-T after Sandstorm damage, and Stealth Rock for the latterdamage.</p>¶

    <p>Hippowdon's best teammates are those that can take strong Water-, Ice-, and Grass-type attacks, as well as very powerful special attacks such as Latios's Draco Meteor. Specially defensive Celebi is a great partner, as it counters most Water-types, as well as Breloom, Life Orb Latios, and Sheer Force Landorus. Latias has similar resistances to Celebi and handles most of the Pokemon that Celebi does, making it an equally valuable partner for Hippowdon. Rapid Spin support is essential for Hippowdon, because most hazard setters easily set up on it, namely Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Forretress, easily set up on it. Starmie and Forretress allboth have decent defensive synergy with Hippowdon and protect the team from hazards. This set also appreciates Pokemon that can take hits from or at least check powerful physical attackers that can break through Hippowdon, such as Choice Band Terrakion and Swords Dance Lucario, so Gengar, Jellicent, and defensive Gyarados pair well with Hippowdon. Spikes and Toxic Spikes setters are natural canditdates for teammates of Hippowdon, as its ability to easily switch-in and start phazing with Whirlwind quickly racks up entry hazard damage. Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Roserade are all good Pokemon for this role and have good overall synergy with Hippowdon. Finally, a Ghost-type Pokemon to protect those hazards is useful, and Jellicent is the best Pokemon for this role and, coversring Hippowdon's weaknesses pretty well, except for Grass-type attacks pretty well.</p>¶

    [SET]¶
    name: Physical Wall¶
    move 1: Slack Off ¶
    move 2: Earthquake¶
    move 3: Stealth Rock¶
    move 4: Ice Fang / Whirlwind¶
    item: Leftovers¶
    ability: Sand Stream¶
    nature: Impish¶
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD¶

    [SET COMMENTS]¶

    <p>This set trades the ability to handle some special Pokemon and fare better against weather inducers to become the most physically bulky Pokemon in OU. Hippowdon is able to wall the strongest physical attackers in OU, such as non-Choice Band Terrakion, Dragon Dance Dragonite, and Swords Dance Lucario. Earthquake hits many of the Pokemon that Hippowdon walls for super effective damage, and is a strong attack that prevents any offensive Pokemon not resistant or immune to it from setting up on Hippowdon. Hippowdon can force many Pokemon out and has reliable recovery, thus making for a very reliabler Stealth Rock setter. Ice Fang hits what Earhtquake can't, such as Dragonite, Salamence, and Landorus-T, while Whirlwind prevents anything that doesn't care about Hippowdon's attacks from setting up and works well with entry hazards.</p>¶

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]¶

    <p>Toxic is useful for crippling Rotom-W, Politoed, and Landorus-T, all common switch-ins to Hippowdon. Sand Force can be used on teams that don't want Sandstorm, such as rain, sun, and hail teams. Unlike the first set, this one doesn't need any other dedicated physical walls as teammates, as it covers the physical side pretty well. What it needs are partners that can deal with the few physical Pokemon that can get past Hippowdon, namely Gyarados, Mamowswine, and Breloom. Rotom-W covers the first two Pokemon and has good defensive synergy with Hippowdon, while Specially Defensive Celebi counters Breloom, checks Gyarados with Perish Song, and handles most special attacks aimed at Hippowdon. Speaking of Celebi, Pokemon that can sponge special attacks are obligatory teammates, so specially defensive Ferrothorn and Amoonguss are good choices as well. Lastly, Rapid Spin support greatly aids Hippowdon, as the common enrty hazard setters all easily set up on it, hindering its effectiveness as a physical wall. Starmie and Forretress are the best options; Starmie can take some weaker Water-type attacks and check Gyarados and Mamowsine, while Forretress checks Mamoswine and sets up entry hazards that Hippowdon can take advantage of with Whirlwind.</p>¶

    [Other Options]¶

    <p>Hippowdon can take the role of a tank and take advantage of its Dream World ability, Sand Force, by using a set with max Attack and HP and a moveset of Earthquake, Stone Edge, Ice Fang or Superpower, and Slack Off, but it is usually outclassed by Landorus-T and Garchomp, which can actually outspeed Pokemon and are better at keeping momentum. Rock Slide or Stone Edge can be used on the physically defenisive set to deal better with Gyarados, Volcarona, and Thundurus-T, but this set has no business staying in against them anyway. Finally, Stockpile makes Hippowdon very difficult to OHKO after a few boosts, but powerful special attackers still 2HKO it, and defensive Pokemon can Toxic it or phase it out, while Hippowdon itself can't do much damage back, making this move a gimmick at best.</p>¶

    [Checks and Counters]¶

    <p>Xatu is probably the best counter to Hippowdon, as it is immune to Earthquake, bounces back Stealth Rock, and has Toxic to put Hippowdon on a timer. The easiest way to bring Hippowdon down is with special Water-, Ice-, and Grass-type attacks. Rotom-W, Celebi, Breloom, Taunt Gyarados, defensive Politoed, and SubRoost Kyurem-B can all switch into Hippowdon with ease and force it out. There are more special attacksers that can dent Hippowdon, if not OHKO it, such as Keldeo and offensive Starmie, but they have to avoid Earthquake, which does serious damage to them. Other problematic Pokemon for Hippowdon are those that don't mind its attacks and can set up hazards, or cripple it with Toxic, such as Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Bronzong. Hippwodon is often the target of lure strategies, due to its resilience and difficulty to bring down, so mixed attackers such as Salamence, Tyranitar with Ice Beam, and Thundurus-T with Grass Knot are all good ways to eliminate or weaken Hippowdon. Finally Trick, Toxic, burns, as well as accumulated damage from Spikes are all good ways to hamper Hippowdon's ability to function as a wall.</p>
    Comments: Seeing as you mention Gengar and Jellicent as good teammates for Hippo and then Jellicent as a spinblocker, maybe move the sections around so you can mention Jellicent as spinblocker right next to Jellicent as Rakion/Luke taker.
    Isn't Phys. D Hippo able to wall CBrakion?
    Actually, Stockpile Hippo after a boost beasts a lot of special attackers, epecially since it can just stockpile again. Stockpile is actually nice against HO teams, mostly of the Deo-D or Dual Screens style, since they rarely have a way to break you. It's still not too good in our metagame, but it's a little better than a gimmick (Especially if Deo-D gets banned)


    Edit: In the mixed-wall section, the first mention of Toxicroak is actually ToxCicroak. So yah.
  16. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,954
    Thx tehy, your check has been implemented! CB Terrakion 2HKOes physically defensive Hippo 35.55% of the time after SR, making it an awesome check, but not a counter.
  17. MysticNova

    MysticNova

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    87
    AM Check (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>With the advent of BW2, a reliable way to keep rain off the fieldincreased popularity of rain (GP policy that this be removed), a reliable way to maintain weather dominance (to avoid repetitiveness) has become more important than ever,(comma) and this is where Hippowdon comes in. Hippowdon is the single most durable weather inducer, as it has titanic physical bulk and reliable recovery. Unlike Tyranitar, Hippowdon doesn' not fear Dugtrio, making it even harder for the opponent's weather team to take Hippowdon down. Aside from being a useful asset in weather wars, Hippowdon is one of the best physical walls in OU, capable of going toe with toe with-to-toe with some of the most notorious physical attackers in OU such as Terrakion, Dragonite, and Lucario.</p>

    <p>Despite its defensive prowess and its ability to combat weather teams, Hippowdon is not without its flaws. Its mediocre special bulk and weakness to common special attacking types, namely Water, Grass, and Ice, leave it exposed to Pokemon with such attacks. Hippowdon is also quite slow and will need to take two hits when switching in before he gets a chance to do anything, limiting the amount of switch-in opportunities it gets. Finally, even though Hippowdon's Attack stat is big for a defensive Pokemon, it is easy to setup on with Pokemon that have Taunt or don' not mind Earthquake.</p>

    <p>All in all, Hippowdon is a superb defensive Pokemon that provides valuable team support with a few weaknesses that can be covered by its teammates and it can cause big trouble to any team not prepared for it.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Wall
    move 1: Slack Off
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stealth Rock
    move 4: Whirlwind / Ice Fang
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Sand Stream
    nature: Careful / Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Hippowdon has excellent physical bulk even when uninvested, so with the added special bulk,(comma) Hippowdon becomes a great mixed wall that is difficult for many special attackers to OHKO without a strong STAB move. This set is also probably the best counter to any Calm Mind Jirachi, which is annoying for any team to deal with, and can switch into defensive variants of Ninetales and Politoed with relative ease, giving fierce competition in the weather war. Despite the lack of Defense investement, Hippowdon can still handle many physical attackers well, such as Dragonite, unboosted Terrakion, and Toxcicroak,(comma) well. Earthquake, backed up by a good 112 Base Attack stat and STAB hits hard,(comma) hits any Pokemon without large physical bulk, and not resistant or immune to it immunity, or a resistance hard. Stealth Rock is a neccessity for any team, and Hippowdon finds ample opportunities to set it up against the multitude of Pokemon that it walls. Everything that doesn' not mind Earthquake is phazed by Whirlwind, making it very hard for stat boosters to set up in front of Hippowdon, but Ice Fang allows Hippowdon to immediately take care of Pokemon that it checks, such as Dragonite, Salamence, and Landorus-T; it also allows Hippowdon to break the Air Balloons that many Heatran carry.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Careful nature is the best choice to avoid certain OHKOs and 2HKOs from specific Pokemon&mdash;Volcarona, Latias, Thundurus-T, and Jolteon&mdash;but Impish is a perfectly viable option for teams that have those threats covered. Sand Force can be used for any team that doesn' not want Ssandstorm, such as sun teams, where Hippowdon handles many of the Pokemon that give them trouble, including Terrakion and physical Dragon-types. Toxic cripples many popular switch-ins to Hippowdon, such as Landorus-T, Rotom-W, and defensive Politoed, making it a good option if Hippowdon has a moveslot to spare. Rock Slide and Stone Edge are decent alternatives to Ice Fang as they still hit most Flying-types for good damage, while being particularly useful against Thundurus-T and Volcarona, two Pokemon that Hippowdon checks well. Rock Slide is more reliable and has more PP, whereas Stone Edge can OHKO most Volcarona after Sandstorm damage, and Thundurus-T after Sandstorm and Stealth Rock damage.</p>

    <p>Hippowdon's best teammates are those that can take strong Water-, Ice-, and Grass-type attacks, as well as very powerful special attacks such as Latios's Draco Meteor. Specially defensive Celebi is a great partner, as it counters most Water-types, as well as Breloom, Life Orb Latios, and Sheer Force Landorus. Latias has similar resistances to Celebi and handles most of the Pokemon that Celebi does, making it an equally valuable partner for Hippowdon. Rapid Spin support is essential for Hippowdon, because most hazard setters, namely Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Forretress, easily set up on it. Starmie and Forretress both have decent defensive synergy with Hippowdon and protect the team from hazards. This set also appreciates Pokemon that can take hits from or at least check powerful physical attackers that can break through Hippowdon, such as Choice Band Terrakion and Swords Dance Lucario, so Gengar, Jellicent, and defensive Gyarados pair well with Hippowdon. Spikes and Toxic Spikes setters are natural candidates for teammates of Hippowdon, as its ability to easily switch in and start phazing with Whirlwind quickly racks up entry hazard damage. Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Roserade are all good Pokemon for this role and have good overall synergy with Hippowdon. Finally, a Ghost-type Pokemon to protect those hazards is useful, and Jellicent is the best Pokemon for this role, covering Hippowdon's weaknesses,(comma) except for Grass-type attacks,(comma) pretty well.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Wall
    move 1: Slack Off
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stealth Rock
    move 4: Ice Fang / Whirlwind
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Sand Stream
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set trades the ability to handle some special Pokemon and to fare better against weather inducers to become the most physically bulky Pokemon in OU. Hippowdon is able to wall the strongest physical attackers in OU, such as non-Choice Band Terrakion, Dragon Dance Dragonite, and Swords Dance Lucario. Earthquake hits many of the Pokemon that Hippowdon walls for super effective damage, and is a strong attack that prevents any offensive Pokemon not resistant or immune to it from setting up on Hippowdon. Hippowdon can force many Pokemon out and has reliable recovery, thus making for a very reliabler Stealth Rock setter. Ice Fang hits what Earhtthquake can'not, such as Dragonite, Salamence, and Landorus-T, while Whirlwind prevents anything that doesn' not care about Hippowdon's attacks from setting up and works well with entry hazards.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Toxic is useful for crippling Rotom-W, Politoed, and Landorus-T, all of which are common switch-ins to Hippowdon. Sand Force can be used on teams that don' not want Ssandstorm, such as rain, sun, and hail teams. Unlike the first set, this one doesn' not need any other dedicated physical walls as teammates, as it covers the physical side pretty well. What it needs are partners that can deal with the few physical Pokemon that can get past Hippowdon, namely Gyarados, Mamoswine, and Breloom. Rotom-W covers the first two Pokemon and has good defensive synergy with Hippowdon, while Sspecially Ddefensive Celebi counters Breloom, checks Gyarados with Perish Song, and handles most special attacks aimed at Hippowdon. Speaking of Celebi, Pokemon that can sponge special attacks are obligatory teammates, so specially defensive Ferrothorn and Amoonguss are good choices as well. Lastly, Rapid Spin support greatly aids Hippowdon, as the common enrttry hazard setters all easily set up on it, hindering its effectiveness as a physical wall. Starmie and Forretress are the best options; Starmie can take some weaker Water-type attacks and check Gyarados and Mamowsine, while Forretress checks Mamoswine and sets up entry hazards that Hippowdon can take advantage of with Whirlwind.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Hippowdon can take the role of a tank and take advantage of its Dream World ability, Sand Force, by using a set with max Attack and HP and a moveset of Earthquake, Stone Edge, Ice Fang or Superpower, and Slack Off, but it is usually outclassed by Landorus-T and Garchomp, which can actually outspeed Pokemon and are better at keeping momentum. Rock Slide or Stone Edge can be used on the physically defensive set to deal better with Gyarados, Volcarona, and Thundurus-T better, but this set has no business staying in against them anyway. Finally, Stockpile makes Hippowdon very difficult to OHKO after a few boosts, but powerful special attackers still 2HKO it, and defensive Pokemon can Toxic it or phase it out, while Hippowdon itself can'not do much damage back, making this move a gimmick at best.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Xatu is probably the best counter to Hippowdon, as it is immune to Earthquake, bounces back Stealth Rock, and has Toxic to put Hippowdon on a timer. The easiest way to bring Hippowdon down is with special Water-, Ice-, and Grass-type attacks. Rotom-W, Celebi, Breloom, Taunt Gyarados, defensive Politoed, and SubRoost Kyurem-B can all switch into Hippowdon with ease and force it out. There are more special attackers that can dent Hippowdon, if not OHKO it, such as Keldeo and offensive Starmie, but they have to avoid Earthquake,(comma) which does serious damage to them. Other problematic Pokemon for Hippowdon are those that don' not mind its attacks and can set up hazards, or cripple it with Toxic, such as Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Bronzong. Hippwoowdon is often the target of lure strategies, due to its resilience and difficulty to bring down, so using mixed attackers,(comma) such as Salamence, Tyranitar with Ice Beam, and Thundurus-T with Grass Knot are all,(comma) is a good ways to eliminate or weaken Hippowdon (might want to check your logic here). Finally Trick, Toxic, burns, as well as accumulated damage from Spikes are all good ways to hamper Hippowdon's ability to function as a wall.</p>

    To better explain that last part: Is bringing Hippowdon down with mixed attackers a good idea because it is often the target of lure strategies?
  18. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,954
    AM check implemented!
  19. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are here
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    3,001
    REMOVE CHANGE THINGS

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>With the advent of In BW2, a reliable way to keep rain off the field is has become more important than ever, and this is where Hippowdon comes in. Hippowdon is the single most durable weather inducer, as it has titanic physical bulk and reliable recovery. Unlike Tyranitar, Hippowdon doesn't fear Dugtrio, making it even harder for the opponent's weather team to take Hippowdon down. Aside from being a useful asset in weather wars, Hippowdon is one of the best physical walls in OU, capable of going toe to toe with some of the most notorious physical attackers in OU such as Terrakion, Dragonite, and Lucario.</p>

    <p>Despite its defensive prowess and its ability to combat weather teams, Hippowdon is not without its flaws. Its mediocre special bulk and weaknesses to common special attacking types, namely Water, Grass, and Ice, leave it exposed to Pokemon with such attacks. Hippowdon is also quite slow and will need to take two hits when switching in before he gets a chance to do anything, limiting the amount of switch-in oportunities it gets. Finally, even though Hippowdon's Attack stat is big for a defensive Pokemon, it is easy to set up on with Pokemon that have Taunt or don't mind Earthquake.</p>

    <p>All in all, Hippowdon is a superb defensive Pokemon that provides valuable team support with a few weaknesses that can be covered by its teammates and can cause big trouble to any team not prepared for it.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Wall
    move 1: Slack Off
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stealth Rock
    move 4: Whirlwind / Ice Fang
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Sand Stream
    nature: Careful / Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Hippowdon has excellent physical bulk even when uninvested, so with the added special bulk Hippowdon becomes a great mixed wall that is difficult for many special attackers to OHKO without a strong STAB move. This set is also probably the best counter to any Calm Mind Jirachi, which is annoying for any team to deal with, and can switch into defensive variants of Ninetales and Politoed with relative ease, giving fierce competition in the weather war. Despite the lack of Defense investment, Hippowdon can still handle many physical attackers, such as Dragonite, unboosted Terrakion, and Toxcicroak, well. Earthquake, backed up by a good Base 112 Attack stat and STAB, hits any Pokemon without large physical bulk and not resistant or immune to it hard. Stealth Rock is a necessity for any team, and Hippowdon finds ample opportunities to set it up against the multitude of Pokemon that it walls. Everything that doesn't mind Earthquake is phazed by Whirlwind, making it very hard for stat boosters to set up in front of Hippowdon, but Ice Fang allows Hippowdon to immediately take care of Pokemon that it checks, such as Dragonite, Salamence, and Landorus-T; it also allows Hippowdon to break the Air Balloon that many Heatran carry.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Careful nature is the best choice to avoid certain OHKOs and 2HKOs from specific Pokemon&mdash;Volcarona, Latias, Thundurus-T, and Jolteon&mdash;but Impish is a perfectly viable option for teams that have those threats covered. Sand Force can be used for any team that doesn't want sandstorm, such as sun teams, where Hippowdon handles many of the Pokemon that give them trouble, including Terrakion and physical Dragon-types. Toxic cripples many popular switch-ins to Hippowdon, such as Landorus-T, Rotom-W, and defensive Politoed, making it a good option if Hippowdon has a moveslot to spare. Rock Slide and Stone Edge are decent alternatives to Ice Fang as they still hit most Flying-types for good damage, while being particularly useful against Thundurus-T and Volcarona, two Pokemon that Hippowdon checks well. Rock Slide is more reliable and has more PP, whereas Stone Edge can OHKO most Volcarona after Sandstorm damage and Thundurus-T after Sandstorm and Stealth Rock damage.</p>

    <p>Hippowdon's best teammates are those that can take strong Water-, Ice-, and Grass-type attacks as well as very powerful special attacks such as Latios's Draco Meteor. Specially defensive Celebi is a great partner, as it counters most Water-types as well as Breloom, Life Orb Latios, and Sheer Force Landorus. Latias has similar resistances to Celebi and handles most of the Pokemon that Celebi does, making it an equally valuable partner for Hippowdon. Rapid Spin support is essential for Hippowdon because most hazard setters, namely Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Forretress, easily set up on it. Starmie and Forretress both have decent defensive synergy with Hippowdon and protect the team from hazards. This set also appreciates Pokemon that can take hits from or at least check powerful physical attackers that can break through Hippowdon, such as Choice Band Terrakion and Swords Dance Lucario, so Gengar, Jellicent, and defensive Gyarados pair well with Hippowdon. Spikes and Toxic Spikes setters are natural candidates for teammates of Hippowdon, as its ability to easily switch in and start phazing with Whirlwind quickly racks up entry hazard damage. Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Roserade are all good Pokemon for this role and have good overall synergy with Hippowdon. Finally, a Ghost-type Pokemon to protect those hazards is useful, and Jellicent is the best Pokemon for this role, covering Hippowdon's weaknesses, except for Grass-type attacks, pretty well.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Wall
    move 1: Slack Off
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stealth Rock
    move 4: Ice Fang / Whirlwind
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Sand Stream
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set trades the ability to handle some special Pokemon and to fare better against weather inducers to become the most physically bulky Pokemon in OU. Hippowdon is able to wall the strongest physical attackers in OU, such as non-Choice Band Terrakion, Dragon Dance Dragonite, and Swords Dance Lucario. Earthquake hits many of the Pokemon that Hippowdon walls for super effective damage and is a strong attack that prevents any offensive Pokemon not resistant or immune to it from setting up on Hippowdon. Hippowdon can force many Pokemon out and has reliable recovery, thus making for a very reliable Stealth Rock setter. Ice Fang hits what Earthquake can't, including such as Dragonite, Salamence, and Landorus-T, while Whirlwind prevents anything that doesn't care about Hippowdon's attacks from setting up and works well with entry hazards.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Toxic is useful for crippling Rotom-W, Politoed, and Landorus-T, all of which are common switch-ins to Hippowdon. Sand Force can be used on teams that don't want sandstorm, such as alternate weather rain, sun, and hail teams. Unlike the first set, this one doesn't need any other dedicated physical walls as teammates, as it covers the physical side pretty very well. What it needs are partners that can deal with the few physical Pokemon that can get past Hippowdon, namely Gyarados, Mamoswine, and Breloom. Rotom-W covers the first two Pokemon and has good defensive synergy with Hippowdon, while specially defensive Celebi counters Breloom, checks Gyarados with Perish Song, and handles most special attacks aimed at Hippowdon. Speaking of Celebi, Pokemon that can sponge special attacks are obligatory teammates, so specially defensive Ferrothorn and Amoonguss are good choices as well. Lastly, Rapid Spin support greatly aids Hippowdon, as the common entry hazard setters all easily set up on it, hindering its effectiveness as a physical wall. Starmie and Forretress are the best options; Starmie can take some weaker Water-type attacks and check Gyarados and Mamowsine, while Forretress checks Mamoswine and sets up entry hazards that Hippowdon can take advantage of with Whirlwind.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Hippowdon can take the role of a tank and take advantage of its Dream World ability, Sand Force, by using a set with max Attack and HP and a moveset of Earthquake, Stone Edge, Ice Fang or Superpower, and Slack Off, but it is usually outclassed by Landorus-T and Garchomp, which can actually outspeed Pokemon and are better at keeping momentum. Rock Slide or Stone Edge can be used on the physically defensive set to deal with Gyarados, Volcarona, and Thundurus-T better, but this set has no business staying in against them anyway. Finally, Stockpile makes Hippowdon very difficult to OHKO after a few boosts, but powerful special attackers still 2HKO it, and defensive Pokemon can Toxic it or phaze it out, while Hippowdon itself can't do much damage back, making this move a gimmick at best.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Xatu is probably the best counter to Hippowdon, as it is immune to Earthquake, bounces back Stealth Rock, and has Toxic to put Hippowdon on a timer. The easiest way to bring Hippowdon down is with special Water-, Ice-, and Grass-type attacks. Rotom-W, Celebi, Breloom, Taunt Gyarados, defensive Politoed, and SubRoost Kyurem-B can all switch into Hippowdon with ease and force it out. There are more special attackers that can dent Hippowdon, if not OHKO it, such as Keldeo and offensive Starmie, but they have to avoid Earthquake, which does serious damage to them. Other problematic Pokemon for Hippowdon are those that don't mind its attacks and can set up hazards or cripple it with Toxic, such as Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Bronzong. Hippowdon is often the target of lure strategies due to its resilience and difficulty to bring down, so using mixed attackers, such as Salamence, Ice Beam Tyranitar, and Grass Knot Thundurus-T, is a good way to eliminate or weaken Hippowdon. Finally Trick, Toxic, burns, and as well as accumulated damage from Spikes, (RC) are all good ways to hamper Hippowdon's ability to function as a wall.</p>


    [gp]and Stamped MysticNova 1/2[/gp]
  20. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,954
    Thx and implemented!
  21. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are here
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    3,001
    Just caught this:

    Earthquake, backed up by a good Base 112 Base Attack and STAB

    This should be lowercase base. Lowercase base is used when talking about stats. And remove the uppercase base, I must not have made the motion to remove the uppercase base when I included the lowercase base in my check.

    Tl;dr replace uppercase base with lowercase base

    All your base are belong to us
  22. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,954
  23. Oglemi

    Oglemi I love you wonderful Minun-Kun!
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,820
    add
    remove
    comments

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>In BW2, a reliable way to keep rain off the field is more important than ever, and this is where Hippowdon comes in. Hippowdon is the single most durable weather inducer, as it has titanic physical bulk and reliable recovery. Unlike Tyranitar, Hippowdon doesn't fear Dugtrio, making it even harder for the opponent's weather team to take Hippowdon down. Aside from being a useful asset in weather wars, Hippowdon is one of the best physical walls in OU, capable of going toe-to-toe with some of the most notorious physical attackers in OU such as Terrakion, Dragonite, and Lucario.</p>

    <p>Despite its defensive prowess and ability to combat weather teams, Hippowdon is not without its flaws. Its mediocre special bulk and weaknesses to common special attacking types, namely Water, Grass, and Ice, leave it exposed to Pokemon with such attacks. Hippowdon is also quite slow and will need to take two hits when switching in before he gets a chance to do anything, limiting the amount of switch-in opportunities it gets. Finally, even though Hippowdon's Attack is big for a defensive Pokemon, it is easy to set up on with Pokemon that have Taunt or don't mind Earthquake.</p>

    <p>All in all, Hippowdon is a superb defensive Pokemon that provides valuable team support with few weaknesses that can be covered by its teammates and can cause big trouble to any team not prepared for it.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Wall
    move 1: Slack Off
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stealth Rock
    move 4: Whirlwind / Ice Fang
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Sand Stream
    nature: Careful / Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Hippowdon has excellent physical bulk even when uninvested, so with the added special bulk Hippowdon becomes a great mixed wall that is difficult for many special attackers to OHKO without a strong STAB move. This set is also probably the best counter to any Calm Mind Jirachi, which is annoying for any team to deal with, and can switch into defensive variants of Ninetales and Politoed with relative ease, giving fierce competition in the weather war. Despite the lack of Defense investment, Hippowdon can still handle many physical attackers, such as Dragonite, unboosted Terrakion, and Toxicroak, well. Earthquake, backed up by a good base 112 Attack and STAB, hits any Pokemon without a lot of physical bulk and not resistant or immune to it hard. Stealth Rock is a necessity for any team, and Hippowdon finds ample opportunities to set it up against the multitude of Pokemon that it walls. Everything that doesn't mind Earthquake is phazed by Whirlwind, making it very hard for stat boosters to set up in front of Hippowdon, but Ice Fang allows Hippowdon to immediately take care of Pokemon that it checks, such as Dragonite, Salamence, and Landorus-T; it also allows Hippowdon to break the Air Balloon that many Heatran carry.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Careful nature is the best choice to avoid certain OHKOs and 2HKOs from specific Pokemon&mdash;Volcarona, Latias, Thundurus-T, and Jolteon&mdash;but Impish is a perfectly viable option for teams that have those threats covered. Sand Force can be used for any team that doesn't want sandstorm, such as sun teams, where Hippowdon handles many of the Pokemon that give them trouble, including Terrakion and physical Dragon-types. Toxic cripples many popular switch-ins to Hippowdon, such as Landorus-T, Rotom-W, and defensive Politoed, making it a good option if Hippowdon has a moveslot to spare. Rock Slide and Stone Edge are decent alternatives to Ice Fang as they still hit most Flying-types for good damage, while being particularly useful against Thundurus-T and Volcarona, two Pokemon that Hippowdon checks well. Rock Slide is more reliable and has more PP, whereas Stone Edge can OHKO most Volcarona after sandstorm damage and Thundurus-T after sandstorm and Stealth Rock damage.</p>

    <p>Hippowdon's best teammates are those that can take strong Water-, Ice-, and Grass-type attacks as well as very powerful special attacks such as Latios's Draco Meteor. Specially defensive Celebi is a great partner, as it counters most Water-types as well as Breloom, Life Orb Latios, and Sheer Force Landorus. Latias has similar resistances to Celebi and handles most of the Pokemon that Celebi does, making it an equally valuable partner for Hippowdon. Rapid Spin support is essential for Hippowdon because most hazard setters, namely Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Forretress, easily set up on it. Starmie and Forretress both have decent defensive synergy with Hippowdon and protect the team from hazards. This set also appreciates Pokemon that can take hits from or at least check powerful physical attackers that can break through Hippowdon, such as Choice Band Terrakion and Swords Dance Lucario, so Gengar, Jellicent, and defensive Gyarados pair well with Hippowdon. Spikes and Toxic Spikes setters are natural candidates for teammates of Hippowdon, as its ability to easily switch in and start phazing with Whirlwind quickly racks up entry hazard damage. Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Roserade are all good Pokemon for this role and have good overall synergy with Hippowdon. Finally, a Ghost-type Pokemon to protect those hazards is useful, and Jellicent is the best Pokemon for this role, covering Hippowdon's weaknesses, except for Grass-type attacks, well.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Wall
    move 1: Slack Off
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stealth Rock
    move 4: Ice Fang / Whirlwind
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Sand Stream
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set trades the ability to handle some special Pokemon and to fare better against weather inducers to become the most physically bulky Pokemon in OU. Hippowdon is able to wall the strongest physical attackers in OU, such as non-Choice Band Terrakion, Dragon Dance Dragonite, and Swords Dance Lucario. Earthquake hits many of the Pokemon that Hippowdon walls for super effective damage and is a strong attack that prevents any offensive Pokemon not resistant or immune to it from setting up on Hippowdon. Hippowdon can force many Pokemon out and has reliable recovery, thus making for a very reliable Stealth Rock setter. Ice Fang hits what Earthquake can't, including Dragonite, Salamence, and Landorus-T, while Whirlwind prevents anything that doesn't care about Hippowdon's attacks from setting up and works well with entry hazards.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Toxic is useful for crippling Rotom-W, Politoed, and Landorus-T, all of which are common switch-ins to Hippowdon. Sand Force can be used on teams that don't want sandstorm, such as alternate weather teams. Unlike the first set, this one This set doesn't need any other dedicated physical walls as teammates, as it covers the physical side very well. What it needs are partners that can deal with the few physical Pokemon that can get past Hippowdon, namely Gyarados, Mamoswine, and Breloom. Rotom-W covers the first two Pokemon and has good defensive synergy with Hippowdon, while specially defensive Celebi counters Breloom, checks Gyarados with Perish Song, and handles most special attacks aimed at Hippowdon. Speaking of Celebi, Pokemon that can sponge special attacks are obligatory teammates, so specially defensive Ferrothorn and Amoonguss are good choices as well. Lastly, Rapid Spin support greatly aids Hippowdon, as the common entry hazard setters all easily set up on it, hindering its effectiveness as a physical wall. Starmie and Forretress are the best options; Starmie can take some weaker Water-type attacks and check Gyarados and Mamoswine, while Forretress checks Mamoswine and sets up entry hazards that Hippowdon can take advantage of with Whirlwind.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Hippowdon can take the role of a tank and take advantage of its Dream World ability, Sand Force, by using a set with max Attack and HP and a moveset of Earthquake, Stone Edge, Ice Fang or Superpower, and Slack Off, but it is usually outclassed by Landorus-T and Garchomp, both of which can actually outspeed Pokemon and are better at keeping momentum. Rock Slide or Stone Edge can be used on the physically defensive set to deal with Gyarados, Volcarona, and Thundurus-T better, but this set has no business staying in against them anyway. Finally, Stockpile makes Hippowdon very difficult to OHKO after a few boosts, but powerful special attackers still 2HKO it, and defensive Pokemon can Toxic it or phaze it out while Hippowdon itself can't do much damage back, making Stockpile a gimmick at best.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Xatu is probably the best counter to Hippowdon, as it is immune to Earthquake, bounces back Stealth Rock, and has Toxic to put Hippowdon on a timer. The easiest way to bring Hippowdon down is with special Water-, Ice-, and Grass-type attacks. Rotom-W, Celebi, Breloom, Taunt Gyarados, defensive Politoed, and SubRoost Kyurem-B can all switch into Hippowdon with ease and force it out. There are more special attackers that can dent Hippowdon, if not OHKO it, such as Keldeo and offensive Starmie, but they have to avoid Earthquake, which does serious damage to them. Other problematic Pokemon for Hippowdon are those that don't mind its attacks and can set up hazards or cripple it with Toxic such as Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Bronzong. Hippowdon is often the target of lure strategies due to its resilience and difficulty to bring down, so using mixed attackers, such as Salamence, Ice Beam Tyranitar, and Grass Knot Thundurus-T, is a good way to eliminate or weaken Hippowdon. Finally, Trick, Toxic, burns, and accumulated damage from Spikes are all good ways to hamper Hippowdon's ability to function as a wall.</p>


    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  24. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,954
    Thx Oglemi, this is done!
  25. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,158
    Cha-Ching!

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)