Hippowdon [QC 2/3]

[Trainer Au]

QC Checks: ginganinja
Overview
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• One of the best physical and mixed walls in OU, as it has great bulk, reliable recovery, and checks or walls some very important threats like Char Y, Garchomp, CharX, Talonflame, and Thundurus.
• Amazing support with Sand Stream, SR, and Whirlwind
• Pretty strong for a wall, with good Atk stat and nice STAB
• Slow
• Common weaknesses
• Often relies on Whirlwind to stop some set up sweepers, so weakening it is not that hard

Specially Defensive
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name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Slack Off
move 4: Toxic / Rock Slide / Whirlwind
ability: Sand Stream / Sand force
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def

Moves
========

-Earthquake for strong stab and so frail offensive Pokemon can't set up on you.
-Stealth Rock to support the team. Hippowdon gets many opportunities to set them up due to its massive bulk which allows it to stay alive longer.
-Slack Off so Hippowdon can stay alive longer and preform it's role of checking certain mons.
-Rock Slide can break balloons.
-Rock Slide gets coverage on important targets (MPinsir, Talonflame, CharY)
-Consider Whirlwind if you feel you have levitating/dragons and the like covered.
-Whirlwind not only phazes out Pokemon that are bulky enough to take you on and boost but it is also nice to force Pokemon out to take more hazard damage.
-Whirlwind is listed first because Hippowdon needs to be able to phaze certain things out immediately, for example, Garchomp easily sets up on Hippowdon without Whirlwind or Ice Fang.
-Toxic is nice because it can cripple Mandibuzz, Rotom-W.

Set Details
========

-Max HP and max SpD to make Hippowdon as bulky as possible on the special attacking spectrum so it can wall mons like Thundurus, Mega Charizard Y, Aegislash, Latios, Latias, Deoxys-S, Gengar, and Tornadus-T. The remaining is tossed into defense.
-Leftovers provide passive recovery without Hippowdon needing to do anything but be in battle. This could be the difference between being 2 or 3HKO'd.
-Nature is careful to boost SpD. Careful is recommended because by using Sassy you lower your speed. This is important because you could potentially win speed ties vs. other Hippowdon and get up your Stealth Rocks or Slack Off.
-Sand stream is slashed first because it allows hippo to check CharY, which is one of its main selling points. Sand force is still viable if sand really hurts you more than helps you.

Usage Tips
========

-Hippowdon is significantly less bulky on the special side than his physical side so be wary of what you're about to send it in on.
-Be careful of Pokemon with the potential to carry Taunt in their moveset as they completely shut Hippowdon down.
-Abuse Hippowdon's ability to get in battle many times to keep Stealth Rock on their side.
-Hippowdon can still use his physical bulk even though it isn't invested, so switching in on weaker physcial attacks is fine.
-Keeping hippo healthy is important since it will most likely always move second.
-Use hippo's sandstorm to your advantage, for example, mega pokemon cannot hold leftovers, so the residual damage is especially annoying for pokemon like Mega-Venusaur. This makes pokemon like Keldeo, Thundurus, Mega-Mawile, and Rotom-W good teammates for hippowdon since they all like a weakened Megasaur.


Team Options
========
-A way of controlling hazards on your side, such as Defog, is appreciated as Hippowdon can potentially be 2HKO'd by needing to take hazard damage and then 2 hits from the opponent. Hazards wear hippo down fast so a defogger is appreciated like scizor or latias.
-Hippowdon mainly needs team support to take Ice, Grass, and Water attacks as well as super strong special attacks like Choice Specs Draco Meteors. Celebi can do this well, as can Latias, but be wary of stacking weaknesses.
-Pokemon that can take hits from very powerful physcial attackers like Choice Banded Terrakion, Mega-Garchomp, etc. are good team mates.
-Spikes and Toxic spikes work well with Hippowdon's whirlwind.
-Sand rush excadrill and Mega-Garchomp are some of the best partners for hippowdon since they love the sand it brings. Beware of stacking type weaknesses though.

Physically Defensive
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name: Physically Defensive
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Slack Off
move 4: Toxic / Rock Slide / Whirlwind
ability: Sand Force / Sand Stream
item: Leftovers
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

Moves
========

-Earthquake provides a strong stab option that keeps any offensive Pokemon from setting up on it.
-Earthquake also hits many of the Pokemon that Hippowdon walls for super effective damage.
-Stealth Rock is good on a Pokemon like Hippowdon since it gets many switch in opportunities and can heal itself throughout the match, allowing it to lay Stealth Rock multiple times in a battle. Which is important in this metagame with the introduction of Defog removing hazards.
-Ice Fang hits the Pokemon that Earthquake cannot, like Salamence, Dragonite, Landorus-T, Mega-Pinsir, etc.
-Whirlwind for phazing out Pokemon that don't care about Earthquake, such as Gyarados, Talonflame, etc.
-Whirlwind also works well with the Stealth Rock that Hippowdon provides.

Set Details
========
-252 HP and 252 Def give it as much bulk as possible so it can preform it's role. The remaining 4 are tossed into SpD.
-Leftovers is the item of choice to give Hippowdon recovery at the end of every turn without needing to do anything so it can stay in battle longer.
-Impish Nature is chosen to maximize Hippowdon's physical defense while also lowering a stat he doesn't need.
-Sand Force is slashed first because Hippo is normally picked up for its utility, reliable recovery, and great bulk and sand is normally a hindrance to your team.

Usage Tips
========

-Use if your team lacks Stealth Rock and would appreciate a bulky Pokemon to check physical threats like Terrakion, Dragonite, Garchomp, Talonflame, etc.
-Bring Hippowdon in against any physical threat that you can deal with by using your attacking moves or whirlwinding.
-Use Hippowdon's massive bulk to get it in battle lots so you can always have Stealth Rock on the field.
-Be wary of what your opponent has, as many common hazard setters such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Deo-D, etc. can all set-up hazards on Hippowdon.
-Keeping hippo healthy is important since it will most likely always move second.

Team Options
========

-A way of controlling hazards on your side, such as Defog, is appreciated as Hippowdon can potentially be 2HKO'd by needing to take hazard damage and then 2 hits from the opponent.
-Pokemon that can handle the Pokemon that beat Hippowdon such as Gyarados when Hippowdon doesn't have whirlwind, Taunt+Bulk-Up Talonflame, etc. are appreciated. A good example of this is Rotom-W, which can also come in on water attacks directed at Hippowdon.
-Along with bulky Pokemon that can handle Hippowdon's checks and counters, other Pokemon enjoy Hippowdon's presence. Many offensive Pokemon like the Stealth Rock Hippowdon brings, so things like Latios, Mega-Mawile, and other strong offensive Pokemon make good partners.
-Celebi has good type synergy and takes special attacks that Hippowdon cannot.
-Sand rush excadrill and Mega-Garchomp are some of the best partners for hippowdon since they love the sand it brings. Beware of stacking type weaknesses though.


Other Options
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Ice Fang for Breloom, Garchomp, etc.
Smooth Rock will keep your sand up longer if your sweepers rely on that to do damage (Excadrill or MChomp)


Checks & Counters
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-Xatu
-Toxic Spikes / Hazards in general and Hazard setters.
-Taunt
-Celebi
-Trick
-Rotom-W
-Jellicent
-Starmie
-Amoonguss
-Status
-Lati@s
-Keldeo
-Mega-Venusaur
-Breloom
-Gyarados
-Kyurem-B

 

[Trainer Au]

Ready for QC

 

[LiteSpecter]

Overview

Usage Tips
========
-Nature is careful to boost SpD. Careful is recommended because by using Sassy you lower your speed. This is important because you could potentially win speed ties vs. other Hippowdon and get up your Stealth Rocks or Slack Off.

With either a neutral speed nature and 12 speed IVs or a -speed nature and 25 IVs Hippowdon will hit 111 speed, exactly one point beneath minimum speed Aegislash. This is rather relevant since otherwise you will lose to Shadow Ball/Shadow Sneak Weakness Policy variants.

 

[Jukain]

Whirlwind should be first on physically defensive. Hippowdon is an outstanding check to numerous physical sweepers, and greatly enjoys the ability to phaze them out. Ice Fang isn't even strong enough to typically justify its use.

 

[Trainer Au]

Whirlwind should be first on physically defensive. Hippowdon is an outstanding check to numerous physical sweepers, and greatly enjoys the ability to phaze them out. Ice Fang isn't even strong enough to typically justify its use.

Done

With either a neutral speed nature and 12 speed IVs or a -speed nature and 25 IVs Hippowdon will hit 111 speed, exactly one point beneath minimum speed Aegislash. This is rather relevant since otherwise you will lose to Shadow Ball/Shadow Sneak Weakness Policy variants.

I want qc's opinion on this first, I guess it is useful on the physically defensive set, but spdef hippo can probably take it on, i havent calced though. Also, how common is wp aegis?

 

[LiteSpecter]

Done

I want qc's opinion on this first, I guess it is useful on the physically defensive set, but spdef hippo can probably take it on, i havent calced though. Also, how common is wp aegis?

Not sure how popular it is on the simulator, but it's pretty much the only set I see on wifi.
I could theorymon about this matchup for a while, but in short, +2 252+ Shadow Ball and +2 0 Shadow Sneak can kill specially defensive hippos (around 25% after leftovers, more with rocks). +2 252+ Shadow Ball alone has a chance to OHKO defensive versions. Hippo's EQ is an ohko only if it's in blade form, and is a 2HKO in shield form. I'd like to see the lower speed at least mentioned, since you need to hit it in blade form, but it's up to QC.

For what it's worth, the same speed argument goes for Gastrodon as well.

 

[Trainer Au]

Not sure how popular it is on the simulator, but it's pretty much the only set I see on wifi.
I could theorymon about this matchup for a while, but in short, +2 252+ Shadow Ball and +2 0 Shadow Sneak can kill specially defensive hippos (around 25% after leftovers, more with rocks). +2 252+ Shadow Ball alone has a chance to OHKO defensive versions. Hippo's EQ is an ohko only if it's in blade form, and is a 2HKO in shield form. I'd like to see the lower speed at least mentioned, since you need to hit it in blade form, but it's up to QC.

For what it's worth, the same speed argument goes for Gastrodon as well.

Well depends on how popular wp aegis is. Also, outspeeding aegis may be beneficial to hippowdon to take out a weakened aegis.

4 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 168-200 (64.3 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

All hippo needs is for aegis to have come in to take a neutral hit or a decently strong resisted one (not hard to believe since aegis has a great typing). Aegis also may have taken damage by coming in to wallbreak, which it's pretty good at.

 

[Trainer Au]

bump.

 

[CyclicCompound]

I'm not QC, but I support the underspeeding Aegislash thing, I think it's pretty important.

Under team options for both sets, I'd make a note of Sand Rush Excadrill. Although it's not as commonly seen as the Mold Breaker variant, Sand Rush is still an extremely formidable ability and shouldn't be discounted.

Also, this can be in either the overview or the checks and counters (I would put it in both, if I were you), but Gen VI has brought about quite a few absurdly powerful physical attackers that stand a chance to muscle past it, namely Mega Lucario.

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 364-430 (86.6 - 102.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

 

[Subject 18]

I would mention Rotom-W under the checks and counters. Hippowdon can't touch Rotom-w barring being able to Whirlwind it out. While Rotom-W can 2HKO both the defensive and specially defensive sets with Hydro Pump.

Be more specific when you say special water, ice and grass moves. Mention the pokemon that carry these moves.

 

[Trainer Au]

I would mention Rotom-W under the checks and counters. Hippowdon can't touch Rotom-w barring being able to Whirlwind it out. While Rotom-W can 2HKO both the defensive and specially defensive sets with Hydro Pump.

Be more specific when you say special water, ice and grass moves. Mention the pokemon that carry these moves.

Done.
I can't believe I forgot rotom-w e.e.

 

[ginganinja]

id prolly mention that it has a harder and harder time walling the main threats, for instance Mega Lucario can still do quite a large number on it.

That said, its viable in OU even if I don't think it will be very good.

QC APPROVED 1/3

That said while the analysis is technically solid, I have reservations about the writing. For instance, Hippowdon prefers defensive teammates rather than aggressive sweepers such as Mega Lucario (who potentially enjoy faster, more aggressive leads such as Deoxys-S), Gengar isn't an amazing switch in against Mega Lucario etc etc. Will keep a watch over this.

 

[Trainer Au]

Done, thanks for the check.
EDIT: ginganinja what do you think of the previous suggestions of lowering the speed of hippo to beat weakness policy aegislash?

 

[Leeping]

running 108 speed evs helps out speed min speed aegislash. Would it be useful to that?

 

[Trainer Au]

Probably not as that compromises a big portion of hippo's bulk. I appreciate your suggestion though!

 

[Subject 18]

running 108 speed evs helps out speed min speed aegislash. Would it be useful to that?

Nah. Hippowdon needs all the bulk it can get being faster than aegislash is a bad thing since you want to be slower to be able to OHKO with earthquake. If youre faster you cant OHKO while it's in shield form.

 

[Fuzznip]

Hey, can you beef up the Checks and Counters section? There's a lot more you can say about it. For instance, almost any Water- and Grass-type, such as Keldeo, Mega Venusaur, Gyarados, and Breloom, beat it. Kyurem-B threatens it, and many other special attacking Dragon-types. Trick, Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, etc.
There's more to say.

 

[Trainer Au]

Hey, can you beef up the Checks and Counters section? There's a lot more you can say about it. For instance, almost any Water- and Grass-type, such as Keldeo, Mega Venusaur, Gyarados, and Breloom, beat it. Kyurem-B threatens it, and many other special attacking Dragon-types. Trick, Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, etc.
There's more to say.

Done, hope it looks better. Also what do you think about making hippo slower for wp aegislash?

 

[dice]

i think spdef is better

countering aegi / soft checking most dragons and band talon / being able to tank gene ice beams yada yada i find are way more useful since you still check the most common shit physdef does anyway, albeit not as well

probably want a bigger mention of rock slide its a pretty good move on it and u didn't hype it enough. prob ac worthy, toxic too

i don't like ice fang at all and dont think it has much merit in this meta.. u kinda just copied the bw set slashing but its use here doesn't mirror last gen's :suspicious:

 

[Trainer Au]

i think spdef is better

countering aegi / soft checking most dragons and band talon / being able to tank gene ice beams yada yada i find are way more useful since you still check the most common shit physdef does anyway, albeit not as well

probably want a bigger mention of rock slide its a pretty good move on it and u didn't hype it enough. prob ac worthy, toxic too

i don't like ice fang at all and dont think it has much merit in this meta.. u kinda just copied the bw set slashing but its use here doesn't mirror last gen's :suspicious:

Should i slash rock slide with whirlwind and move ice fang to ac or take rock slide from oo and put it in ac?

Also yea i think rock slide was better but I started using hippo very early xy so i didnt know if i would have support in putting in rock slide so i just put in ice fang to be safe. Guess i should have put what i thought was best at first and then qc can just decide to change it later if it isnt optimal.

 

[Gary]

Should i slash rock slide with whirlwind and move ice fang to ac or take rock slide from oo and put it in ac?

Also yea i think rock slide was better but I started using hippo very early xy so i didnt know if i would have support in putting in rock slide so i just put in ice fang to be safe. Guess i should have put what i thought was best at first and then qc can just decide to change it later if it isnt optimal.

I would definitely slash Rock Slide after Whirlwind. Both of them have their advantages; Whirlwind is Hippo's most reliable option for stopping sweepers dead in their tracks, while Rock Slide is really nice for just OHKOing Talonflame and Mega Pinsir, and it keeps Dragonite from setting up on it easily even if Hippo happens to be Taunted or something. Besides, Rock Slide + EQ hits a decent amount of Pokemon for super effective damage that would normally try to set up on Hippo, but Whilrwind is still the better option overall because it keeps pretty much every physical attacker from sweeping as long as it's still alive. Pokemon like Bulky Mega Scizor and Garchomp can easily setup on Hippo lacking Whirlwind, which sucks. And yeah, I'd remove any mention of Ice Fang as Dice mentioned. All you're really hitting with it is Landorus and Garchomp, which isn't worth being complete setup bait for pretty much every other physical attacker. Definitely an OO at best.

 

[Trainer Au]

I would definitely slash Rock Slide after Whirlwind. Both of them have their advantages; Whirlwind is Hippo's most reliable option for stopping sweepers dead in their tracks, while Rock Slide is really nice for just OHKOing Talonflame and Mega Pinsir, and it keeps Dragonite from setting up on it easily even if Hippo happens to be Taunted or something. Besides, Rock Slide + EQ hits a decent amount of Pokemon for super effective damage that would normally try to set up on Hippo, but Whilrwind is still the better option overall because it keeps pretty much every physical attacker from sweeping as long as it's still alive. Pokemon like Mega Scizor and Garchomp can easily setup on Hippo lacking Whirlwind, which sucks. And yeah, I'd remove any mention of Ice Fang as Dice mentioned. All you're really hitting with it is Landorus and Garchomp, which isn't worth being complete setup bait for pretty much every other physical attacker. Definitely an OO at best.

Alright thanks ill do this in a bit

 

[Swamp Link]

I would definitely slash Sand Force on the Physically Defensive set. The reason for this is that oftentimes, a team does not benefit from having sand at all. If you're running Mega Venusaur, it can screw up the recovery in Synthesis. And the rest of the time, your team only gets worn down by your sand. Unless you're running something that benefits from the sand, like Sand Rush Excadrill or Mega Garchomp, you're better off running Sand Force to not disrupt your team.

 

[trc]

To be honest, you might as well slash it on both sets, and then mention in Set Details the advantages in each ability, for example, if you want to use Hippowdon as a wall and you don't like the detrimental ability of sand to certain team members, then use Sand Force, but if you are using something like Stoutland / MegaChomp / SashZam (which aren't all that common, I just needed examples) then use Sand Stream.

 

[Swamp Link]

Well no, one of the main reasons to use specially defensive Hippowdon is that it can switch into Mega Charizard Y, which you need Sand Stream for. So only on the physically defensive set.