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Hippowdon (Update) [QC 3/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by yee, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. yee

    yee
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    Im updating this because the wall set's EVs come from focus on the original scary threats of BW like Excadrill, Terrakion and Darmanitan but they make Hippowdon less of a team player and it can't tank the last two with a Choice Band even when maxed out, plus Hippowdon is not a pokemon that tends to stay at 100% health easily so SD Hippo / Lando will actually have an easier time breaking it if more special attackers are forcing it out, costing Slack Off time.

    Basically, I'm moving the focus from putting Hippowdon on a team to wall physical attackers to making it a bulky member of one capable of adjusting itself to satisfy an incredible amount of needs.

    [Overview]

    Though Hippowdon's gains in the transition to BW were few, it is still a stellar defensive and support Pokemon. Despite the multitude of powerful physical threats introduced, Hippowdon's titanic Defense and HP stats, along with its access to recovery in Slack Off, allow it to keep up with—and often beat—said threats. Aside from being an excellent defensive pivot, Hippowdon can also set up a permanent sandstorm with its Sand Stream ability, allowing it to effectively support several key Pokemon who were introduced this generation, such as Landorus. With a resistance to Stealth Rock and access to Slack Off, he does a great job staying healthy for weather wars. Though Hippowdon faces a lot of competition from Tyranitar for the role of summoning sandstorm, they each serve different purposes on a team, so don't make the mistake of confusing the two. Overall, Hippowdon's exceptional bulk allows it to truly shine this generation; underestimate it at your peril!

    -recovers and resists rocks making it easy to keep sand up

    [SET]
    name: Physical Wall
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Slack Off
    move 3: Stealth Rock
    move 4: Ice Fang / Roar
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Sand Stream
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Hippowdon's excellent HP and Defense stats allow it to serve as a great physical wall. Despite the fact that Hippowdon and Tyranitar are both capable of setting up a permanent sandstorm, and thus compete with each other for a team slot, Hippowdon is a much more defensive Pokemon, while Tyranitar is significantly more offensive. Additionally, Hippowdon has access to instant recovery in the form of Slack Off, which is a tremendous asset for a wall.</p>

    <p>Earthquake allows Hippowdon to deal decent damage to any Pokemon who does not resist it. Stealth Rock is very useful, as it is capable of turning many potential 2HKOs into OHKOs for Hippowdon's teammates, making it a great form of support. In the final moveslot, there are two good potential choices. Ice Fang is the primary option for its ability to bash Landorus and Salamence switch-ins. Additionally, Ice Fang allows Hippowdon to scratch Pokemon with a Balloon, who otherwise have an easy time with Hippowdon. However, Roar is a worthy option as well, capable of scouting the opposing team while racking up residual damage from Stealth Rock.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>In the final moveslot, Hippowdon can use Toxic to poison switch-ins, or Stone Edge to deal respectable damage to Flying-types such as Gyarados and Togekiss. Keep in mind that by using one of the aforementioned moves, Hippowdon loses out on the utility provided by Ice Fang or Roar, making it a less valuable defensive pivot. This set's EV spread is extremely straightforward: 252 HP EVs give Hippowdon wonderful overall bulk, while 252 Defense EVs with an Impish nature maximize Hippowdon's already excellent physical defense.</p>

    <p>A Rapid Spin user is an excellent teammate for Hippowdon, as Spikes—and by extension, Toxic Spikes—severely hurts its tanking abilities. Starmie is a good teammate, capable of checking Gyarados, who can dent Hippowdon with its STAB Waterfall. Hippowdon struggles with powerful special attacks such as Choice Specs Latios's Draco Meteor. Additionally, special Water- and Grass-type moves will quickly demolish Hippowdon. As such, a special wall who is capable of sponging these powerful hits, like Blissey, is a great teammate. Any Pokemon who benefits from sandstorm support, such as Landorus, is a great teammate; thanks to Hippowdon's sandstorm, these Pokemon are significantly powered up, making them top-notch partners.</p>

    -will update ac to reflect 56 SpD in ev spread

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Wall
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Slack Off
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Roar / Ice Fang
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Sand Stream
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    -Doesn't afraid of anything common but Rotom-W and other offensive rain mons early game, making SR a given assuming there's no Magic Bounce / Taunt pokemon or Forretress.

    -Nothing will be able to take a significant advantage early game trying to set up on Hippowdon, making it a great lead.

    -Can wear down teams early with Roar if it carries it, shuffling around the team and messing up the opponent's strategy. It can also switch into so many things and phaze them because of it's amazing bulk- you can even switch this into standard cm Virizion and phaze if it you need to.

    -Ice Fang is a better move if your team does not need the phazing ability, and hits Lando / Mence / Nite hard, very useful to remove Nite's multiscale with sand before hitting it.


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    -The ev spread is chosen to maximize Hippowdon's overall bulk, besides being a standard solid physical wall it can survive even a Choice Specs Draco Meteor from Modest Hydreigon and Slack off the damage. If you don't have Blissey on your team this is extremely important, it shows the team can heavily rely on Hippowdon and not vice-versa.

    -Stall teams that don't need Hippowdon holding off offensive teams a mixed wall can afford to invest more in defense, because this Hippowdon cannot switch directly into SD Lucario / Terrakion / Lando.

    -Needs Rapid Spin support to deal with Spike stacking and t spike stacking, this set does nothing to stop it and absolutely hates it.

    -Use this if getting forced out by special threats is more threatening to you than not having a sturdier check to physical threats. Have something for Rotom-W like Celebi or Shaymin that can afford to come out early game, pokemon like Breloom and Latias are burn and pursuit prone.

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb Tank
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Stone Edge
    move 3: Ice Fang
    move 4: Slack Off
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    ability: Sand Force
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 228 HP / 252 Atk / 28 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Another take on Hippowdon sees it functioning as a bulky tank, capable of both taking many physical attacks and dealing significant damage in return. Hippowdon's Attack is significantly boosted by both Sand Force and Life Orb, which makes it a fantastic lure for physical walls, as it is capable of beating both Gliscor and Ferrothorn. This allows common sandstorm sweepers, such as Terrakion and Landorus, to sweep. Factoring in Sand Force, Earthquake becomes a 130 Base Power STAB move, while also having perfect accuracy and no drawbacks. Along with Stone Edge, it has great coverage on nearly everything in the tier. Under sandstorm, only the most physically bulky of Pokemon will be able to take repeated hits from either move. Ice Fang is essential for breaking down Gliscor, as it takes little from Stone Edge and can Toxic Hippowdon and wear it down slowly. It also hits most Dragon-types for greater damage than Stone Edge and gets a clean OHKO on Landorus. Slack Off is a great asset for Hippowdon, since it mitigates hazard damage as well as Life Orb recoil, preventing a premature death.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Life Orb is the primary item choice, as with it, Ferrothorn is 2HKOed with Earthquake, and Gliscor is too with Ice Fang. However, Leftovers is also a viable option to bluff a defensive set, allowing the opponent to remain unsuspecting until it is too late. Maximum Attack investment with an Adamant nature lets Hippowdon to hit as hard as possible on different threats. 28 Speed EVs enable Hippowdon to outrun 0 Speed Chansey, Donphan, and Tangrowth, so Hippowdon can hit them hard with either Earthquake or Ice Fang before they can strike. Fire Fang is another option to hit Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Scizor harder than Earthquake; however, it is not recommended as none of them like taking Life Orb Sand Force Earthquakes, and they can't beat Hippowdon anyway. Also, a Sand Force-boosted Stone Edge will always do the same amount of damage to Skarmory as a super effective Fire Fang. Another option to be considered is the Sand Stream ability, which frees up a spot on your team for something other than Tyranitar. However, you should never run both Sand Stream and Leftovers, because Hippowdon becomes very weak and you're better off using the defensive set at that point.</p>

    <p>Tyranitar is a teammate you should always have when using this set, as it provides permanent sandstorm and activates Sand Force. It can also set up Stealth Rock, which is very beneficial, as it allows Leftovers Hippowdon to always 2HKO Gliscor. Ferrothorn is another great partner, as it possesses both great synergy and the ability to lay down more hazards. It is best to pair Hippowdon up with something that can take advantage of Gliscor and Ferrothorn's absence; Terrakion and Landorus are the most notable Pokemon here. This set also appreciates paralysis support; Celebi is a good choice, as it has decent synergy.</p>

    -More physical focus with 84 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Def / 28 Spe


    [Other Options]

    <p>Though Hippowdon does have a few other tricks up its sleeve, these tricks are generally poor options, as they are better utilized by other Pokemon. A Choice Band set could potentially be viable, but even with the Choice Band boost, Landorus and even bulky Gliscor are all better suited to fulfilling the role of an offensive Ground-type. A Curse set may see some use, but it is easily phazed out by Pokemon such as Skarmory, and any Pokemon with a powerful special STAB attack will be able to make quick work of a Curse Hippowdon, even with maximum Special Defense investment. Yawn can be used as a potential support move, but is often outclassed as a phazing move by Roar. Outside of the above, Hippowdon doesn't have many other potential options; its movepool is fairly shallow, so when using Hippowdon, you should almost always attempt to play to its strengths as a physical wall.</p>

    -Gonna mention HP Ice so it can effectively hit sd taunt Gliscor and still get mence / lando running their -SpD Natures. Also removing the bolded physical.

    -Crunch, Superpower, Toxic, Stockpile, sleep talk, (ill elaborate)

    -more attack on defensive sets to OHKO terrakion (not KOed after sr normally)

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>While very few physical attackers can beat Hippowdon, there are numerous special attackers who are capable of posing a tremendous threat to the hippopotamus. Any Pokemon with a super effective special attack, such as Vaporeon or Shaymin, is able to quickly dispose of Hippowdon. Additionally, even special attackers who don't pack a super effective move will often be able to crush Hippowdon. For instance, Choice Specs Hydreigon's Draco Meteor is a surefire OHKO on Hippowdon, while moves such as Heatran's Fire Blast will also deal shattering damage. Taunt users are capable of shutting down Hippowdon with extreme ease, leaving it almost completely useless. Taunt Skarmory in particular is able to neuter Hippowdon entirely, and can proceed to set up Spikes against it without a care in the world. In general, any special attacker who can take an Earthquake or two and attack back will be able to trounce Hippowdon one-on-one.</p>

    <p>More offensive sets can dealt with by either Skarmory or Bronzong. Skarmory can take Stone Edge, set up Spikes, and phaze. However, it must be careful when Roosting, as it will take heavy damage from Earthquake. Bronzong takes little from Hippowdon's attacks; however, it can't do much back, as its Hidden Power Ice doesn't do nearly enough. Defensive Rotom-W can switch in to anything bar Stone Edge, and can use either Will-O-Wisp to cripple it for the rest of the match or Hydro Pump to demolish it. You can also exploit the fact that Hippowdon takes damage from all forms of entry hazards. While it has recovery, it is rather slow so it can be hit hard before it has a chance to use Slack Off.</p>

    -spike bait, taunt bait, physical attackers with SE moves annoy it if hippo can't hit them back
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    If you want to maximize Hippowdon's overall bulk, you would want a Careful Nature: http://users.smogon.com/X-Act/defense.html

    The physically defensive spread should stay, imo, since it makes a solid counter to SD Lucario, SD Terrakion, and SD Landorus, while being a decent check to Mienshao and Acrobatics Gliscor, too. Even without Excadrill there are still many dangerous physical threats that demands heavy investment in Hippowdon's physical defense. If you want to include a specially defensive wall set, then that's fine, but keep the physically defensive set.

    Rather than going Max HP / Max Def on the physically defensive Hippowdon set, I would go with 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD. That extra SpD EVs prevents Hippowdon from being 2-shotted by LO HP Ice from Landorus.

    And yea, please revamp the Checks and Counters section as you see fit, since it may take awhile for Checks and Counters Project to reach Hippowdon.

    Thanks for doing this, yee.
  3. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    Ive been playing with Hippowdon a lot.

    On thing I think should be in AC is ditching stealth rock on Hippowdon to run both ice fang and whirlwind. There are a lot of perks to this especially if you have other pokemon to run stealth rock because you can kill dragons and phaze all you want.
  4. yee

    yee
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    ScarfWyanut I'll add that in if QC wants but I'm pretty skeptical about giving up Stealth Rock on it.

    And Pocket I thought an AC mention would be good but splitting them into seperate sets works too.
  5. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Physical Wall
    Also add that Slack Off and its resistance to SR allow Hippowdon to be a difficult weather summoner to be removed by opposing Sun, Rain, and Hail teams. This becomes significant in weather wars.

    Like you said, revise the EV descriptions; remove the alternate spread.

    Ummm, somehow you copy-pasted the previous paragraph onto this paragraph, so take it out.

    Mixed Wall
    • You did a great job emphasizing its special bulk, but you should also emphasize that the loss in physical bulk prevents this Hippowdon from being a secure check to Terrakion, Lucario, and Mienshao. This would help readers to decide which Wall set would fit better on their team.
    • Mention a teammate partner that can handle Rotom-W, as it is still a pest to Hippowdon. For instance, Breloom or Latias?

    Life Orb Tank
    • 84 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Def / 28 Spe - AC mention this spread, which allows this Hippo to take physical hits better.

    OO mention
    • Crunch - Good against Latias, Latios, Gengar
    • Superpower - Good for hitting Bronzong, Rotom-W, Scrafty, Air Balloon Terrakion / Heatran
    • Toxic - Wont help against Steel-types, but it can do a great job wearing down Pokemon like Latias, Politoed, and Virizion who tries to exploit Hippowdon's presence
    • Stockpile - Makes it an impenetrable wall, even from the special side, as it shuffles the opposing team around and wear them down with residual damage.
    • Sleep Talk - Allows Hippowdon to absorb sleep and still heal itself with Slack Off or phaze threats, thank to Sleep Talk.
    • Body Slam - 30% paralysis chance

    Checks and Counters
    • Include a mention that Hippo Wall is Spikes bait for Ferrothorn and Forretress
    • Make note that the mixed wall doesn't enjoy taking SE physical STAB hits - such as Seed Bomb from Breloom, Waterfall from Gyarados. Neither Hippo Wall enjoys taking Icicle Crash from Mamoswine.
      Add Gyarados, Deoxys-D, Sableye, and Azelf as other mons who can render Hippowdon useless with Taunt.

    EDIT: PillsburyDoughBoy, Slack Off is a much more reliable recovery move than Rest, which puts Hippowdon to sleep, and with the new sleep mechanics, it could be a pain. Sleep Talk is there to keep Hippowdon useful even if it absorbs a Spore from Breloom / Smeargle.
  6. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
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    Why not use Rest if Sleep Talk is taking the slot?
  7. yee

    yee
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    Done, although I don't agree with Body Slam in OO... 30% paralysis is not really a big boon, you might nail loom or rotom-w but more often than not you wont and rotom-w can rest it off.
  8. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    In the Overview, add that Slack Off and its resistance to SR allow Hippowdon to be a difficult weather summoner to be removed by opposing Sun, Rain, and Hail teams. This becomes significant in weather wars.

    Fair enough - you can remove Body Slam, I don't mind.

    QC Approved (1/3)
  9. yee

    yee
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    Sounds good.
  10. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  11. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Well, Hippowdon's Hippowdon. I see nothing else to change except mentioning scarfwynaut's Whirlwind suggestion to OO (because SoundProof is incredibly niche, and Stealth rock is, as you said, a tad too good to pass up on something as bulky as Hippowdon.

    [​IMG]

    QC Approved [3/3]
  12. Badal

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    Got the OP's permission, going to take this over and push it through GP.

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