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Hippowdon (Update)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Badal, Apr 8, 2012.

  1. Badal

    Badal Shit
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    yee's OT

    [Overview]

    <p>Though Hippowdon gained little in the transition to BW, it has remained a stellar defensive and support Pokemon. Despite the multitude of powerful physical threats introduced this generation, Hippowdon's titanic HP and Defense stats, along with its access to recovery in Slack Off, allow it to keep up with—and often beat—said threats. Aside from being an excellent defensive pivot, Hippowdon can also set up permanent sandstorm with its Sand Stream ability, allowing it to support several key Pokemon who were introduced this generation, such as Landorus. With a resistance to Stealth Rock and access to Slack Off, Hippowdon does a great job of staying healthy for weather wars. Though Hippowdon faces stiff competition from Tyranitar for the role of summoning sandstorm, they each serve different purposes, so don't make the mistake of confusing the two. Overall, Hippowdon's exceptional bulk allows it to truly shine this generation; underestimate it at your peril!</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Wall
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Slack Off
    move 3: Stealth Rock
    move 4: Ice Fang / Roar
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Sand Stream
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Hippowdon's excellent HP and Defense stats allow it to serve as a great physical wall. Despite the fact that Hippowdon and Tyranitar are both capable of setting up a permanent sandstorm and thus compete with each other for a team slot, Hippowdon is a much more defensive Pokemon whilst Tyranitar is significantly more offensive. Additionally, Hippowdon has access to instant recovery in Slack Off, a tremendous asset for any wall.</p>

    <p>Earthquake allows Hippowdon to deal decent damage to any Pokemon who does not resist it. Stealth Rock deals residual damage and eases sweeps for Hippowdon's teammates. There are two main contenders for the final moveslot. Ice Fang is the primary option for its ability to bash Landorus and Salamence switch-ins. Ice Fang also allows Hippowdon to scratch Pokemon with an Air Balloon, who otherwise have an easy time with Hippowdon. However, Roar is a worthy alternative as well, capable of scouting the opposing team while racking up residual damage with Stealth Rock. Hippowdon's bulk allows it to avoid being revenge killed by Dugtrio and being able to KO back, something that Tyranitar can't boast.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>In the final moveslot, Hippowdon can use Toxic to poison switch-ins, or Stone Edge to deal respectable damage to Flying-types such as Gyarados and Togekiss. Keep in mind that by using one of the aforementioned moves, Hippowdon loses out on the utility provided by Ice Fang or Roar, making it a less valuable defensive pivot. This set's EV spread is extremely straightforward: 252 HP EVs give Hippowdon wonderful overall bulk, while 244 Defense EVs with an Impish nature nearly maximize Hippowdon's already excellent Defense. The remaining 12 EVs help increase Hippowdon's meager Special Defense to help it face threats such as Expert Belt Landorus, allowing it to survive two hits of Hidden Power Ice even after Stealth Rock damage. The EVs also allow it to survive Sand Force Earthquake after Stealth Rock and Spikes damage. Finally, they enable Hippowdon to have a 25% chance of surviving two Life Orb-boosted Hidden Power Ice after Stealth Rock damage. Sand Force can be used if you are interested in Hippowdon's walling abilities rather than its sandstorm. For example, it can be used on a sun team so it can counter Terrakion without interfering with the weather. It is worth noting that Stealth Rock cannot be used in conjunction with Sand Force.</p>

    <p>A Rapid Spin user is an excellent teammate for Hippowdon, as Spikes and Toxic Spikes severely hurt its tanking abilities. Starmie is a good teammate that checks Gyarados, who can KO Hippowdon with its STAB Waterfall. Hippowdon struggles with powerful special attacks such as Choice Specs Latios's Draco Meteor. On top of this, special Water- and Grass-type moves will quickly demolish Hippowdon. As such, a special wall who is capable of sponging these powerful hits, such as Blissey, is a great teammate. Any Pokemon who benefit from sandstorm support, such as Landorus, are great candidates for partners.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Wall
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Slack Off
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Roar / Ice Fang
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Sand Stream
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Hippowdon can set up Stealth Rock early in the game, assuming the opposing Pokemon doesn't have Taunt or Magic Bounce, and isn't Forretress. Additionally, thanks to Roar, no Pokemon will be able to take a significant advantage early-game to set up on Hippowdon, making it a great lead. Hippowdon can wear down teams easily with Roar, shuffling the team around and messing up the opponent's strategy, as well as dealing residual damage with Stealth Rock at the same time. Hippowdon can also switch into many setup Pokemon, even special attackers such as Calm Mind Virizion, and phaze them thanks to its amazing bulk. Ice Fang can be used over Roar if your team does not need the ability to phaze; it also allows allows Hippowdon to hit several common threats, such as Landorus, Salamence, and Dragonite.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread maximizes Hippowdon's overall bulk. Besides being a standard solid physical wall, it can survive a Draco Meteor from a Choice Specs Modest Hydregion, and Slack Off to regain HP. In the absence of a special wall, this allows the team to rely on Hippowdon to tank some special hits. Stall teams that don't need Hippowdon to hold off offensive teams can afford to invest more in Defense, because this Hippowdon cannot switch directly into Swords Dance Lucario, Terrakion, or Landorus. Rapid Spin support is needed to deal with Spikes and Toxic Spikes stacking, as they can take a toll on the hippo. This set should be used if getting forced out by special threats is more threatening to your team than not having a sturdy check to physical threats. Having counters for Rotom-W, Celebi, and Shaymin, who can deal a lot of damage early in the game, is good as the aforementioned Pokemon can be threats to Hippowdon.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb Tank
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Stone Edge
    move 3: Ice Fang
    move 4: Slack Off
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    ability: Sand Force
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 228 HP / 252 Atk / 28 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Another take on Hippowdon sees it functioning as a bulky tank, capable of taking many physical attacks and dealing significant damage in return. Hippowdon's Attack is significantly boosted by both Sand Force and Life Orb, which makes it a fantastic lure for physical walls as it is capable of beating both Gliscor and Ferrothorn. This allows common sandstorm sweepers, such as Terrakion and Landorus, to sweep. Factoring in Sand Force, Earthquake becomes a 130 Base Power STAB move that also has perfect accuracy and no drawbacks. Ice Fang is essential for breaking down Gliscor as it takes little from Stone Edge and can Toxic Hippowdon and wear it down slowly; it also hits most Dragon-types for greater damage than Stone Edge and gets a clean OHKO on Landorus. Under sandstorm, only the most physically bulky of Pokemon will be able to take repeated hits from either move. Slack Off is a great asset for Hippowdon as it mitigates hazard damage as well as Life Orb recoil, preventing a premature death.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Life Orb is the primary item choice as with it, Ferrothorn is 2HKOed with Earthquake, and Gliscor is too with Ice Fang. However, Leftovers is also a viable option to bluff a defensive set, allowing the opponent to remain unsuspecting until it is too late. Maximum Attack investment with an Adamant nature lets Hippowdon to hit a variety of threats as hard as possible. 28 Speed EVs enable Hippowdon to outrun 0 Speed Chansey, Donphan, and Tangrowth, so Hippowdon can hit them hard with either Earthquake or Ice Fang before they can strike. Fire Fang is another option to hit Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Scizor harder than Earthquake; however, it is not recommended as none of them like taking Life Orb Sand Force-boosted Earthquakes, and they can't beat Hippowdon anyway. Also, a Sand Force-boosted Stone Edge will always do the same amount of damage to Skarmory as a super effective Fire Fang. A 84 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Def / 28 Spe spread can be used to get a more physically defensive focus, allowing it to take more physical hits, possibly allowing it to stay in longer. Another option to be considered is the Sand Stream ability, which frees up a spot on your team for something other than Tyranitar. However, you should never run both Sand Stream and Leftovers because Hippowdon becomes very weak and you're better off using the defensive set at that point.</p>

    <p>Tyranitar is a teammate you should always have when using this set as it provides permanent sandstorm and activates Sand Force. It can also set up Stealth Rock, which is very beneficial as it allows Leftovers Hippowdon to always 2HKO Gliscor. Ferrothorn is another great partner as it possesses both great synergy and the ability to lay down more hazards. Hippowdon is best paired with Pokemon that can take advantage of Gliscor and Ferrothorn's absence, such as Terrakion and Landorus. This set also appreciates paralysis support; Celebi is a good choice as it has good synergy, being able to take on Fighting-types along with Water- and Grass-type moves. This Hippowdon falls to powerful Fighting-types and it doesn't have the Special Defense investment to take Water- and Grass-type moves, making Celebi even more useful.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Though Hippowdon does have a few other tricks up its sleeve, these alternatives are generally poor options as they are better utilized by other Pokemon. A Choice Band set could potentially be viable, but even with the Choice Band boost, Landorus and even bulky Gliscor are all better suited to fulfilling the role of an offensive Ground-type. A Curse set might see some use, but it is easily phazed out by Pokemon such as Skarmory, and any Pokemon with a powerful special STAB attack will be able to make quick work of Curse Hippowdon, even with maximum Special Defense investment. Yawn can be used as a potential support move, but is often outclassed as a phazing move by Roar. Hidden Power Ice lets Hippowdon effectively hit Swords Dance + Taunt Gliscor as well as Salamence and Landorus, who typically run Special Defense-reducing natures, hard. Greater investment can be put into Attack on defensive sets to allow Hippowdon to OHKO Terrakion. Outside of the above, Hippowdon doesn't have many other potential options; its movepool is fairly shallow, so when using Hippowdon, you should almost always attempt to play to its strengths as a bulky wall.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>While very few physical attackers can beat Hippowdon, there are numerous special attackers who are capable of posing a tremendous threat to the hippopotamus. Any Pokemon with a super effective special attack, such as Vaporeon or Shaymin, is able to quickly dispose of Hippowdon. Additionally, even special attackers who don't pack a super effective move will often be able to crush Hippowdon. For instance, Choice Specs Hydreigon's Draco Meteor is a surefire OHKO on Hippowdon, while moves such as Heatran's Fire Blast will also deal shattering damage. Taunt users are capable of shutting down Hippowdon with extreme ease, leaving it almost completely useless. Taunt Skarmory, in particular, is able to neuter Hippowdon entirely, and can proceed to set up Spikes against it without a care in the world. In general, any special attacker who can take an Earthquake or two and attack back will be able to trounce Hippowdon one-on-one.</p>

    <p>More offensive sets can be dealt with by either Skarmory or Bronzong. Skarmory can take Stone Edge, set up Spikes, and phaze Hippowdon out. However, it must be careful when using Roost, as it will take heavy damage from Earthquake. Bronzong takes little from Hippowdon's attacks, however, it can't attack back as its Hidden Power Ice doesn't do nearly enough. Defensive Rotom-W can switch in to anything bar Stone Edge, and can use either Will-O-Wisp to cripple it for the rest of the match or Hydro Pump to demolish it. Hippowdon is crippled by entry hazards, as both Spikes and Toxic Spikes eat away at its health, rendering it useless. Furthermore, it is Taunt bait as well, as a majority of its moves are affected by Taunt.</p>
  2. Ojama

    Ojama May your scattered remains entertain me
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    Good analysis Badal, i don't know what you could add but maybe you could talk about Terrakion, Mixed Landorus and some damages because you dont explain your evs spread (the 56 in SDef). Hippowdon is also really great for the weather war since it isnt trapped by dug and has slackoff.
    Thats the only things you could add, good job dude.
  3. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Just something to note, Sand Force can be used on the walling sets if you don't want sand on your team but still want Hippowdon's walling abilities. An example would be to use the physical wall set on a sun team with Sand Force so you can counter Terrakion and it doesn't disrupt Ninetales in setting up the sun.
  4. Badal

    Badal Shit
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    Oh no, I can't take credit for this, it was all yee, i'm simply converting it to prose, so the kudos goes to him! Added the stuff you mentioned.

    Added this.

    It's now ready for GP I think
  5. Garganator

    Garganator

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    I'm sorry for being really nitpicky, but I don't know how those 56 EVs help against Terrakion, which is always purely physical attacker. And those EVs have any use outside of taking super effective Hidden Power from Landorus ? If not, I think it would be better to just max Defense, as increasing a chance to survive +2 Adamant Close Combat from Lucario with Spikes up is always nice. Just my two cents ;).
  6. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    you mention that hippo can KO dugtrio with Ice Fang in the physical wall set when STAB Earthquake is stronger.
  7. asterat

    asterat

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    I don't see the viability of LO hippowdon when landorus is stronger, faster and can go mixed. I know it's meant to be bulky but still. Unless someone can get some logs vouching for it's effectiveness I think that should be removed
  8. Thundur

    Thundur

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    I don't really see how Hippo is outclassed. The two sets look like they play completely differently.
  9. Endeby

    Endeby formerly Andeby

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    Indeed. Hippo is not only bulkier, but he also has acess to instant recovery in Slack Off. Also, not being part flying is also something that set him apart from Landorus.
  10. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    It seems that you missed the part where Hippowdon is still an excellent tank, has reliable recovery, is resistant to SR, doesn't instantly die to any Ice attack (Mamo for example), and generally is powerfull and tanky at the same time, at the cost of speed of 'course.
  11. Danilo

    Danilo
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    this is long... ill am check it anyway though
    status:double check

    Whoever stamps this should look over this thingy a lot. this was a somewhat long analysis and there is a ton of ink that still may need some loving.
  12. Lucario_Guy

    Lucario_Guy

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    Hippowdon can't have Stealth Rock when it has Sand Force. You should probably note that when suggesting Hippow's hidden ability on walling sets. ;)
  13. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
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    If you do decide to implement Sir's check make sure you remove the part about the LO tank not being able to take powerful Fighting-type attacks. Both Scrafty and Terrakion fail to OHKO at +1 or from Choice Band with Hi Jump Kick or Close Combat, respectively.
  14. Danilo

    Danilo
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    Im not sure i agree with tht. Sure they cant ohko but hippo cant switch in @ all
  15. sirndpt

    sirndpt
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    working over Sir's check~

    [​IMG]
  16. Badal

    Badal Shit
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    Thank you all. I implemented the checks, barring a couple of things.

    Ready for the next check.
  17. Orcinus Duo

    Orcinus Duo

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    Placeholder
  18. Orcinus Duo

    Orcinus Duo

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    i'm actually scared of stamping this since i did this while talking to a friend so could someone look over this ?_?
  19. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Badal as Poppy mentioned, in the first set's description you mention that Hippo can kill Dugtrio with Ice Fang, while EQ hits harder.
  20. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Yea, Badal, please change that to EQ.

    In hindsight, I agree. Most Landorus do not carry Life Orb, but Expert Belt at most, so preparing for a LO HP Ice Landorus may not be worth it for the cost of walling SD Lucario and SD LO Terrakion better. Refine the set to 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 SpD. This will allow Hippowdon:

    1) to not die from a CH HP Ice from EB Landorus at full health
    2) to survive 2 EB HP Ice after SR damage
    3) to survive Sand Force EQ + EB HP Ice after SR + Spikes damage
    4) to have a sizable chance (25%) of surviving 2 LO HP Ice after SR damage; it can take 2 hits without SR

    You do not need to include all of this in the explanation, but at least be more specific than what you have now (ie mention #2 and #3).
  21. Badal

    Badal Shit
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    Made the changes.

    About the GP check, a LARGE number of the changes were unnecessary and so I have not included them, I double-checked with a few GP members about it too. Because of this, I would prefer if this could get another check before it goes through.
  22. SkullCandy

    SkullCandy She Bangs The Drums
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    Those were the only things I had to change really. I tried to stay as objective as possible; there were a couple of sentences which I though were a little clumsy, though. Apart from that, good job!
  23. Engineer Pikachu

    Engineer Pikachu Good morning, you bastards!
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    Gonna make a few changes.

    Physical Wall Set Comments

    • Paragraph 1, the first change: It's an unnecessary change; both can work.
    • Paragraph 1, the second change: Instead of adding a semicolon (which is wrong), just delete "which is"
    Physical Wall AC

    • Paragraph 1: Add a space between "Stone Edge" and "to"
    • Paragraph 1, the first change: The comma is fine, the semicolon isn't.
    • Paragraph 1, after "Finally": Replace "The EVs" with "They"
    • Paragraph 2, before "as Spikes and Toxic Spikes": Add a comma.
    Mixed Wall Set Comments

    • Paragraph 1, before "isn't Forretress": Replace "or" with "and"
    • Paragraph 1, close to the end: Replace "...ability to phaze. Ice Fang allows..." with "...ability to phaze; it also allows..."
    Life Orb Tank Set Comments
    [box]
    Under sandstorm, only the most physically bulky of Pokemon will be able to take repeated hits from either move. Ice Fang is essential for breaking down Gliscor as it takes little from Stone Edge and can Toxic Hippowdon and wear it down slowly. Ice Fang also hits most Dragon-types for greater damage than Stone Edge and gets a clean OHKO on Landorus.

    CHANGE TO THIS

    Ice Fang is essential for breaking down Gliscor as it takes little from Stone Edge and can Toxic Hippowdon and wear it down slowly; it also hits most Dragon-types for greater damage than Stone Edge and gets a clean OHKO on Landorus. Under sandstorm, only the most physically bulky of Pokemon will be able to take repeated hits from either move.[/box]
    Life Orb Tank AC

    • Paragraph 1: Justify your alternate EV spread. Why should I use that messy-looking one instead of something else?
    • Paragraph 2, the end: Replace "rendering" with "making"
    OO

    • Before "as well as Salamence and Landorus": Remove the comma
    • After "Greater investment can be put into...": Remove "EVs" after "Attack"
    Checks and Counters

    • Paragraph 1, near the end: "Taunt Skarmory in particular is able to neuter..." should be replaced with "Taunt Skarmory, in particular, is able to neuter..."
    • Paragraph 2, near the beginning: Replace "Roosting as" with "using Roost, as"
    • Paragraph 2: "Physical attackers carrying Stone Edge can deal damage to Hippowdon, unless the hippo can hit back." What does this mean? Also I don't think that Stone Edge is very effective against Hippowdon, given that it's not very effective and all...
    [​IMG]
    GP [2/2]
  24. Badal

    Badal Shit
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    Major apologies for the delay, but I'm done now. Was swamped (still am) with exams. Thank You for helping out. This is now done.
  25. Iconic

    Iconic
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    i shall upload this

    ty for all your work badal

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