Hippowdon [QC Rejected 3/3]

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Darnell

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QC ? / ? / ?
GP ? / ?

  • Is a cute bigger Hippo ◕‿‿◕
  • Reliable recovery
  • Stealth Rock
  • Good physical bulk
  • Sand on switch-in
  • Slow
  • Predictable
  • Lack of offensive moves and coverage
  • Outclassed by other Ground-types
Physically Defensive
########
name: Physically Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Whirlwind
move 4: Slack Off
ability: Sand Stream
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
nature: Impish

Moves
========
  • Stealth Rock is an entry hazard which is always nice in wearing down Pokemon when they switch-in
  • Slack Off is reliable recovery to keep Hippo at a good amount of HP
  • Earthquake is Base Power 100 STAB attack which lets Hippowdon finish off opponents and hurts Mega-Gengar hard
  • Whirlwind avoids Pokemon such as Gothitelle, Arceus, and Xerneas setting up against Hippo
  • Toxic can be used to catch Pokemon off-guard which are immune to Earthquake so Hippowdon can actually touch them.
Set Details
=========
  • Leftovers is for some recovery back back at the end of each turn
  • EVs invested are to maximize Hippowdon's physical bulk
  • Impish nature is to raise the Defense
  • Sand Stream is for sand which benefits sand teams and breaks sash users such as Scolipede and Smeargle

Usage Tips
=========
  • Hippowdon should be brought in when predicting most physical attacks. Boosted ones should be avoided.
  • Hippo needs to be careful when dealing with Primal Groudon - max Attack Precipice Blades + SR + prior damage will 2HKO while Groudon can also run special attacks (It will lose 1v1 or have to force it out with Whirlwind.
  • Hippowdon doesn't appreciate getting worn down with burns or poison so try to avoid status from Gliscor, Ho-Oh, and Mega Sableye.
  • Zekrom has a chance of running Draco Meteor which hurts Hippo bad so be cautious
  • Sand, Earthquake and Slack Off can wear down opponents rather than having to switch out
  • The perks over using this over Tyranitar is its less weaknesses, better physical bulk and access to recovery.
  • Primal Groudon lowers Excadrill usage on sand teams due to it being harder to get up as checking them becomes harder due to Overheat variants
  • Hippo despises boosted Fire Punches (+2 252+ Atk Groudon Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon in Sun: 331-391 (78.8 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery)

Team Options
=========
  • Excadrill appreciates Hippowdon's sand due to its ability, Sand Rush raising its Speed.
  • Pokemon which can take Special attacks such as Blissey
  • Palkia and Arceus-Grass are useful since opposing Kyogre love Hippowdon due to it removing its sand and threatning it with hard hitting STAB in rain.
  • Pokemon which can take Grass-type attacks such as Ferrothorn, Dialga, and Mega-Scizor.
  • Pokemon which can take Water-type attacks such as Groudon-Primal, and err... ones listed for checking Kyogre.
  • Aegislash appreciates Hippowdon taking Ground-type attacks aimed at it from users such as Landorus-T, Gliscor, and Excadrill.
  • Pokemon which deal with Ground-type immunities such as Ice Beam from Kyogre to damage Flying-type and Levitate users such as Latios, Latias, Yveltal and Water Spout or Scald depending on the set for Ho-Oh

Other Options
########
  • Smooth Rock
  • Yawn
  • Stone Edge
  • Sand Force (non-Sand Hippo)
Checks and Counters
########

**Water-types**: Water-types such as Kyogre-Primal, Palkia, and Arceus-Water threaten Hippowdon out with their super effective attacks, OHKOing Hippowdon before it has a chance to set up hazards or recovery. Kyogre-Primal also removes sand from the field due to Primordial Sea which would be needed to benefit other teammates such as Excadrill.

**Grass-types**: Grass-types such as Shaymin-S and Ferrothorn can take an Earthquake; Shaymin-S especially due to it having an immunity to Ground-type attacks and either threaten Hippowdon out with their STAB attacks or Ferrothorn can use the chance to set up hazards as Hippowdon switches out.

**Status**: Status such as poison and burn can wither down Hippowdon's HP to the point where it switching in and taking an attack won't successfully allow it to live the next hit and go for Slack Off. With Toxic users such as Gliscor in the tier, Hippowdon needs to be cautious of when is best to switch in and set up its Stealth Rock.

**Taunt**: Taunt users which outspeed Hippowdon such as Yveltal, Mewtwo, and Mega-Sableye can use prevent Hippowdon from using Stealth Rock, Whirlwind or Slack Off, forcing it to either switch out or continue to spam Earthquake.

*Offensive Special Attackers**: Offensive special attackers such as Mega Gengar, Xerneas, and Mega Mewtwo Y can threaten Hippowdon out with their special attacks due to Hippowdon being built on taking physical hits. These hard hitting attacks with either 2HKO or OHKO Hippowdon and if it does switch, Xerneas can use the chance to Geomancy or Mega Mewtwo Y can Calm Mind.

**Ground Immunities**: Flying-type or Levitate Pokemon such as Ho-Oh, Mega Gengar, Mega Salamence, Latios, and Latias are immune to Hippowdon's Earthquake therefore they can't be touched besides than sand damage or Hippowdon going for Whirlwind. This can cause problems especially for Hippowdon when faced against Yveltal which runs Taunt therefore Hippowdon can't touch it.
 
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A little advice;

I think you should mention how its one of the best counters to Primal Groudon:

252 Atk Groudon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 135-159 (32.1 - 37.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery --> Means almost a guaranteed 4HKO.

In the meanwhile, it can just recover its health back or just hit it with an Earthquake. I don't know if you'd actually be wanting to mention it, yet i'm pointing this out because I believe that Groudon-Primal is one of the best Pokemon in this metagame :)
 
A little advice;

I think you should mention how its one of the best counters to Primal Groudon:

252 Atk Groudon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 135-159 (32.1 - 37.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery --> Means almost a guaranteed 4HKO.

In the meanwhile, it can just recover its health back or just hit it with an Earthquake. I don't know if you'd actually be wanting to mention it, yet i'm pointing this out because I believe that Groudon-Primal is one of the best Pokemon in this metagame :)
While I agree it's a good check to certain much less offensive sets (like support one for example), I wouldn't call Hippowdon a counter at all, especially if Primal Groudon runs special fire attack. Also take into account that Hippowdon doesn't change the weather on Desolate Land, so keep this in mind. Just to demonstrate:

-Spa Nature 0 SpA Primal Groudon Sun Boosted Overheat Primal Groudon vs Max HP/ Max Def Impish Hippowdon

83.57%->98.57%

To be honest in this case Hippowdon can't switch on ANY offensive move here as Overheat practically 2HKO it without SR (or smashes it back in one hit if it takes any kind of damage) and with SR 28,21% chance to OHKO. Going mixed is totally viable options not only against Hippowdon, but also against Landorus-T and Gliscor, which otherwise handle Primal Groudon pretty well. Also in case Groudon goes fully physically offensive, I don't think Hippowdon handles this one that well actually. Just to demonstrate:

+2 Adamant 252 Atk Primal Groudon Precipe Blades vs Max HP/Max Def Impish Hippowdon

84.29%-99.29%

There is 33.33% for OHKO after Swords Dance and Stealth Rock from Precipe Blades. I really wouldn't go and call Hippowdon even that reliable check... if you face boosted Primal Groudon you may even go in one hit and all you can do that phaze it out (as I'm 100% sure EQ isn't even close to eliminating Red Orb Groudon in one hit). While Groudon may go also go Jolly (but on double dance set I would prefer Adamant), he won't like this hit as well. Time to show damage against Jolly nature Primal Groudon.

76.67%-90.24%

While you avoid OHKO, this hit is really, really heavy. Plus taking into account that Hippowdon is slow and it's not hard to damage it, little residual damage and it's hopeless against this version as well.

So yeah, I wouldn't mention Hippowdon as Primal Groudon counter and I hardly can call him reliable check either as demonstrated here unless you face more defensive version or the one which isn't boosted. So yeah, I wouldn't bother.
 
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While I agree it's a good check to certain much less offensive sets (like support one for example), I wouldn't call Hippowdon a counter at all, especially if Primal Groudon runs special fire attack. Also take into account that Hippowdon doesn't change the weather on Desolate Land, so keep this in mind. Just to demonstrate:

-Spa Nature 0 SpA Primal Groudon Sun Boosted Overheat Primal Groudon vs Max HP/ Max Def Impish Hippowdon

83.57%->98.57%

To be honest in this case Hippowdon can't switch on ANY offensive move here as Overheat practically 2HKO it without SR (or smashes it back in one hit if it takes any kind of damage) and with SR 28,21% chance to OHKO. Going mixed is totally viable options not only against Hippowdon, but also against Landorus-T and Gliscor, which otherwise handle Primal Groudon pretty well. Also in case Groudon goes fully physically offensive, I don't think Hippowdon handles this one that well actually. Just to demonstrate:

+2 Adamant 252 Atk Primal Groudon Precipe Blades vs Max HP/Max Def Impish Hippowdon

84.29%-99.29%

There is 33.33% for OHKO after Swords Dance and Stealth Rock from Precipe Blades. I really wouldn't go and call Hippowdon even that reliable check... if you face boosted Primal Groudon you may even go in one hit and all you can do that phaze it out (as I'm 100% sure EQ isn't even close to eliminating Red Orb Groudon in one hit). While Groudon may go also go Jolly (but on double dance set I would prefer Adamant), he won't like this hit as well. Time to show damage against Jolly nature Primal Groudon.

76.67%-90.24%

While you avoid OHKO, this hit is really, really heavy. Plus taking into account that Hippowdon is slow and it's not hard to damage it, little residual damage and it's hopeless against this version as well.

So yeah, I wouldn't mention Hippowdon as Primal Groudon counter and I hardly can call him reliable check either as demonstrated here unless you face more defensive version or the one which isn't boosted. So yeah, I wouldn't bother.
1. Overheat can't, it us weakened second turn and hippo can recover
2. It can just whirlwind it out, preventing It to set up a SD or it can just eq
 
1. Overheat can't, it us weakened second turn and hippo can recover
2. It can just whirlwind it out, preventing It to set up a SD or it can just eq
1. Even with SpA drop, it EASILY 2HKO Hippowdon as even after drop with sun on and Groudon obviously outspeed Hippo as first hit almost KOes Hippowdon without SR (and with it there is a chance for clean KO). And if you switch Hippowdon on ANY offensive move like Stone Edge or Precipe Blades it will finish Hippowdon next turn with Overheat. So if Groudon has Overheat in his moveset, Hippowdon can only safely switch on support move like T-Wave or Stealth Rock as Overheat hits it too hard.
2. The point is that you will switch Hippowdon into Groudon and good check should be able to handle most if not all versions of certain Pokemon relatively well, while counter 100% counter ALL sets of certain 1vs1 matchup. If you face +2 Adamant Primal Groudon, you are in really tight spot or if you face Overheat version. If SR is up, there is over 33% chance to get KOed by SD version (and over 28% against Overheat version). Even if not, your Hippowdon is crippled to the point where it's practically only death fodder. And taking into account how slow it is, it's practically impossible to find free turn to recover health back against at least decent player and how hard practically all Uber pokemon hit.

So honestly my opinion is still the same - it's not a counter BY ANY means and it's hardly reliable check unless you face less offensive version. And if it carries Overheat... it can't even check less offensive ones properly as even negative nature Overheat hits it way too hard.
 
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I'd probably just mention that Hippo needs to be very careful when dealing with primal groudon, max attack blades will 2hko with sr + any prior damage (spike layer for example) and you dont even 2hko back with earthquake. then theres always the fear of groudon running a special fire move which just leaves you useless against it - either way you are forced to either lose 1v1 or whirlwind it out after tanking 2 precipice blades ( if you switched into it, after which you are death fodder and didnt bother it at all)
team options should include mons that deal with ground immunities (yveltal, salamence, latis) without toxic you dont pressure these guys at all and then something takes a large hit
speaking of ground immunities they should also be added to c&c, thats all i noticed for now
 

Darnell

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I'd probably just mention that Hippo needs to be very careful when dealing with primal groudon, max attack blades will 2hko with sr + any prior damage (spike layer for example) and you dont even 2hko back with earthquake. then theres always the fear of groudon running a special fire move which just leaves you useless against it - either way you are forced to either lose 1v1 or whirlwind it out after tanking 2 precipice blades ( if you switched into it, after which you are death fodder and didnt bother it at all)
team options should include mons that deal with ground immunities (yveltal, salamence, latis) without toxic you dont pressure these guys at all and then something takes a large hit
speaking of ground immunities they should also be added to c&c, thats all i noticed for now
I done this (: Thanks!
 
the main reason i'd use this is for sand, as other ground types outclass it otherwise; lando is ground-immune, gliscor stallbreaks kinda, groudon is just a better pokemon...

i would then be sure to mention in usage tips and briefly in the overview the main draws of using this over tyranitar, which checks yveltal and pursuit traps latis. this ties in with team options where mentioning yvel/lati checks as teammates would be nice.

i think toxic can be a moves mention as it's nice if you have another rocks user. it's markedly better than the other oo stuff. i actually think stone edge and ice fang deserve to be taken out altogether.
 

shrang

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the main reason i'd use this is for sand, as other ground types outclass it otherwise; lando is ground-immune, gliscor stallbreaks kinda, groudon is just a better pokemon...

i would then be sure to mention in usage tips and briefly in the overview the main draws of using this over tyranitar, which checks yveltal and pursuit traps latis. this ties in with team options where mentioning yvel/lati checks as teammates would be nice.

i think toxic can be a moves mention as it's nice if you have another rocks user. it's markedly better than the other oo stuff. i actually think stone edge and ice fang deserve to be taken out altogether.
I thought the biggest draw of Hippo was the fact that it has reliable recovery. I guess Gliscor also has reliable recovery now, but it's not as bulky as Hippo is.
 
I thought the biggest draw of Hippo was the fact that it has reliable recovery.
yeah that's probably true, at least objectively speaking. i'd only ever considered using hippo on sand before but then that's just me

'the main reason i'd use this is for sand, as other ground types outclass it otherwise; lando is ground-immune, gliscor stallbreaks kinda, groudon is just a better pokemon...' <-- this was a poorly worded sentence; i didnt mean that hippo was strictly outclassed, moreso that outside of hippo providing sand support other ground-types have their respective draws over it.

that being said i think sand stream-less hippo is worth a mention in oo
 

Darnell

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yeah that's probably true, at least objectively speaking. i'd only ever considered using hippo on sand before but then that's just me

'the main reason i'd use this is for sand, as other ground types outclass it otherwise; lando is ground-immune, gliscor stallbreaks kinda, groudon is just a better pokemon...' <-- this was a poorly worded sentence; i didnt mean that hippo was strictly outclassed, moreso that outside of hippo providing sand support other ground-types have their respective draws over it.

that being said i think sand stream-less hippo is worth a mention in oo
Really? Sand Force is worth a mention in OO? Can't say I've particular seen it, nor ever thought to it being good? o_o
 
it's for the off chance you want hippo as a bulky ground with reliable recovery like shrang said, but your team doesnt like/want for sand.
 
Mention Stone Edge in OO. I'd also like to see more of a mention of the Primals; Hippowdon itself doesn't care too much, but Excadrill is not as good as it used to be with Sand harder to get up with Primal Groudon and Kyogre. It does make checking Primal Groudon harder, Overheat variants will destroy you and Hippo despises boosted Fire Punches (+2 252+ Atk Groudon Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon in Sun: 331-391 (78.8 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery).
 

Darnell

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Mention Stone Edge in OO. I'd also like to see more of a mention of the Primals; Hippowdon itself doesn't care too much, but Excadrill is not as good as it used to be with Sand harder to get up with Primal Groudon and Kyogre. It does make checking Primal Groudon harder, Overheat variants will destroy you and Hippo despises boosted Fire Punches (+2 252+ Atk Groudon Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon in Sun: 331-391 (78.8 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery).
Done
 

steelskitty

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I've no idea why I'd ever want to use this on an Ubers team in ORAS. If you look at a lot of the strongest physical attackers in the tier (Ho-Oh, Primal Groudon, Rayquaza, EKiller, SD Groundceus, and Mega Salamence) it doesn't switch in or even really beat any of them, unlike Tyranitar, which checks a whole slew of things and isn't defog bait for any support Arceus not named Rock while still providing sand. Its use was justifiable in BW but the power creep's caught up with it, and it can't handle:

new Groudon (support variants just Lava Plume it for the 2HKO as Desolate Land always overrides Sand, Max Atk offensive variants 2HKO you if you take any prior damage beforehand)

Life Orb (standard) Extreme Killer (+2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 207-243 (49.2 - 57.8%) -- 58.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery) (the lack of a way to hurt it outside of phasing and tickling it with Toxic coupled with the fact that Hippowdon really doesn't check anything common means that damage is likely staying on it for the rest of the game)

Rayquaza (it couldn't really ever handle this, actually) (252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 199-235 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- 81.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery and Aqua Tail / Dragon Ascent have about the same damage output) (40 SpA Life Orb Rayquaza Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 348-411 (82.8 - 97.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)

Ho-Oh (208+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 201-237 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery) (Life Orb variants also win if you burn it)

It's simply setup fodder for Refresh Mega Salamence in lastmon scenarios or without rocks on the field, but 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 195-231 (46.4 - 55%) -- 64.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

And it can't hurt SD Groundceus at all while Jolly Groundceus 2HKOs it with +2 EQ without needing Stealth Rock up

tldr; Hippo shouldn't ever be used over Tyranitar in this meta because it reliably checks nothing (it beats or mildly annoys a few things one-on-one but that just isn't enough for a Pokemon that also has no offensive presence) and is incredibly easy to Defog on.

qc rejected 1/3
 
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