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Hitmontop [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by EonADS, Sep 24, 2012.

  1. EonADS

    EonADS

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    This thing is surprisingly good if you use it right.

    QC Approved: [2/3] (RT.) (DestinyUnknown) (kokoloko)
    QC Rejected: [0/3]
    GP Approved: [0/2]
    Amateur GP Check(s): Lesser Smaug
    [​IMG]
    http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/hitmontop

    [Overview]

    <p>For a Pokemon that spends the majority of its life balancing on the tip of its head, Hitmontop is no pushover. This plucky little Fighting-type takes its place in UU through the combination of its bulk, Intimidate, and Rapid Spin. One of the best utility checks in the tier, Hitmontop is one of the few Pokemon that can stop Choice Scarf Heracross from sweeping through a team and still perform its other duties. However, the large number of offensive Ghost-types in UU makes it difficult for Hitmontop to use Rapid Spin if it wants to stay in one piece. Add to that the ubiquitous Flying- and Psychic-types in the tier and Hitmontop really has its work cut out for it. Hitmontop also proves itself something of a liability on more offensive teams, and cannot be haphazardly thrown onto a team despite its role as a supporting Pokemon. Despite these limitations, Hitmontop is very good at what it does.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rapid Spin
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Foresight / Toxic
    move 3: Sucker Punch / Stone Edge
    move 4: Close Combat
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Intimidate
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Hitmontop's only real niche in UU is that of a bulky Rapid Spin user, and it performs its job admirably. Between Hitmontop's physical bulk, Intimidate, and its Fighting typing, it becomes capable of spinning against a large portion of the metagame. Foresight combines with Rapid Spin to make it impossible to stop Hitmontop from spinning unless your opponent is packing two Ghost-types. Unfortunately, if your opponent lacks a Ghost-type, it becomes a wasted moveslot instead. If you'd rather not take that risk, Toxic is available as a more passive option. It's good for wearing down the bulkier Ghost-types, such as Cofagrigus and Sableye, if you can predict the switch-in, and most of Hitmontop's checks and counters also hate being badly poisoned. Sucker Punch and Stone Edge are Hitmontop's coverage options. Sucker Punch compliments Hitmontop's STAB and is good for picking off weakened enemies, while Stone Edge gives Hitmontop a fighting chance (no pun intended) against Chandelure and Froslass. It also gives it a weapon against Flying-types, like Zapdos and Crobat, which is greatly appreciated. Close Combat rounds out the moveset as Hitmontop's most reliable STAB move; it has a good combination of high power and low risk, and the stat drops are easily mitigated both by Intimidate and timely switching.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Most of Hitmontop's other options are either outclassed or not worth considering. Aerial Ace is nice to use against Heracross and other Fighting-types that Hitmontop will often be used to check, but forfeiting the coverage of Stone Edge or the priority of Sucker Punch isn't worth it. It also seriously lacks power without the boost from Technician. Rest is decent if you have access to Heal Bell support, but otherwise it's a terrible idea that turns Hitmontop into dead weight that the remainder of your team has to compensate for; you're probably better off sticking to Wish support or choosing to forgo extra healing moves entirely. Low Kick and Revenge are more conservative Fighting-type STABs, but they are not as consistent as Close Combat in terms of damage output. On the other end of the scale, Hi Jump Kick is a much riskier STAB, but has slightly more power, although it's generally not worth it. Finally, Pursuit might seem like a good idea for picking off Foresight-stricken Ghosts-types if they attempt to switch out, but they're just as likely to attack.</p>

    <p>Hitmontop is capable of acting as a solid utility check thanks to its extensive physical bulk and Intimidate. Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Heracross and Krookodile, Speed Boost Sharpedo, Flygon, Weavile, and even Swords Dance Cobalion are all examples of Pokemon that Hitmontop is capable of stopping. Hard-hitting Pokemon, such as Yanmega, Darmanitan, Weavile, and Chandelure, all enjoy the removal of entry hazards and appreciate Hitmontop's ability to block the aforementioned threats. Hitmontop itself also requires team support to function effectively. First and foremost are Dark-types, particularly those with access to Pursuit, like Honchkrow, Weavile, and Houndoom, which are capable of running down Ghost-types that would block Hitmontop's Rapid Spin and can also pick off Psychic-types, such as Mew and Azelf, which otherwise have a field day switching into Hitmontop and setting up. Houndoom in particular is worthy of note because it beats Chandelure into the ground, thus eliminating one of the Pokemon Hitmontop has the most issues with. Hitmontop also has issues with Flying-types, particularly Togekiss and Crobat. Thus, a Flying-type resist is almost mandatory; Bronzong, Bisharp, and Rhyperior are all good choices for this position. Bulky Zapdos is also a decent pick because it can pick off opposing Flying-types with STAB, super effective Electric attacks and heal off any damage with Roost. Umbreon is one of the best Hitmontop partners because in addition to sponging special attacks aimed at Hitmontop, it can easily pass Wishes to keep Hitmontop healthy and heal off nasty status from Hitmontop with Heal Bell. The two have great defensive synergy as well, making them an effective defensive core.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Sadly, Hitmontop is very limited in terms of what it can do in UU. The old standby TechniTop has fallen to the wayside, as too many Pokemon like Zapdos, Yanmega, and Cofagrigus can freely switch into Hitmontop's moves and deal heavy damage both to it and the rest of your team. A Bulk Up set might seem like a good idea, but it is outclassed by other Bulk Up or Curse users such as Scrafty and Snorlax, and it also lacks both the power and the bulk to do its job without excessive support. The rest of Hitmontop's movepool also has a few options that have not yet been mentioned, but they are sorely outclassed. Brick Break and Triple Kick lack the power to deal effective damage, and Triple Kick is also inconsistent in terms of both damage output and accuracy. Earthquake or Technician Bulldoze might seem like good ideas for hitting Nidoqueen and Nidoking while retaining coverage against Chandelure, but they have redundant coverage with Hitmontop's STAB moves. Finally, Counter is an acceptable move if you don't mind letting Hitmontop take a few hits. It has decent surprise value, but it is neither reliable nor recommended.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Hitmontop has a lot of Pokemon that can counter it under the right circumstances, but most of them must beware of at least one move from Hitmontop. Mew is one of the few exceptions to this rule; any set with Heal Bell or a Lum Berry can switch into and destroy Hitmontop with near impunity. Togekiss can somewhat claim the same for Heal Bell sets, but less bulky sets must beware of switching into Stone Edge. Nidoqueen and Nidoking both run roughshod over Hitmontop; it is hapless to do anything against them one-on-one. Even eliminating Stealth Rock is beyond it when faced with the offensive power of the royal pains. Cofagrigus, Slowbro, Gallade, and Sableye all hate Toxic, but otherwise laugh at anything Hitmontop could do and easily set up on it. Zapdos can check Hitmontop, but it hates both Stone Edge and Toxic, particularly if it is running an offensive set. Similarly, bulky Roserade can act as a solid check to Hitmontop, but repeated switch-ins can wear it down, as Close Combat and Stone Edge deal around 35% damage. Tricking a Choice item to Hitmontop cuts down on its effectiveness, but can also create more of a problem if Hitmontop manages to make use of the boost it gives. Ultimately, Hitmontop isn't the problem so much as the support it provides. Either have something that spits on everything it can do or take it out quickly, else you <em>will</em> regret it for the entirety of the match.</p>
  2. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
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    Remove Stone Edge slash on the 2nd slot - Hitmontop isn't going anywhere without Toxic or Foresight. It kind of made sense to run 3 attacks hitmontop (even with an offensive spread) before bw2 because it allowed you to beat Chandelure, but with Cofagrigus being so popular now it isn't as viable as it used to be. So yeah using Hitmontop without Foresight / Toxic in the current metagame isn't a good idea
  3. Nas

    Nas
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    I'm not exactly sure why you have Hi Jump Kick slashed with Close Combat. It's a more risky option with basically no payoff. Lowering Hitmontop's defenses with CC is a non-issue when compared to Hi Jump Kick cutting its HP in half if you predict wrong, or miss.
  4. EonADS

    EonADS

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    I suppose. I tend to prefer 3 Attacks Hitmontop because Cofagrigus is handled by the rest of my team, but that isn't the case for everyone. Removed.

    Ninja Edit: I agree wholeheartedly, RT. The only reason I left it on at all was so QC could weight in on it, but now that somebody has mentioned it, I'm taking it down.
  5. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Slow down there. Technitop is definitely not a flop and it is most definitely not outclassed by Ambipom. Yes the existence of Cofagrigus and Gligar nerf it, but it's one of the strongest priority users in the game. Very useful for checking a rampaging Kingdra or fast threats that most teams have difficulty trying to get a handle on.

    [SET]
    name: Technitop
    move 1: Fake Out
    move 2: Mach Punch
    move 3: Close Combat
    move 4: Sucker Punch / Stone Edge / Bullet Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Adamant
    nature: Technician
    evs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe

    This set should absolutely get re-added.
  6. EonADS

    EonADS

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    Kokoloko told me that Spin should be the only set, and I frankly agree. It's nerfed horribly by Cofagrigus and Gligar... Dusclops as well, though it's not very common. It's not that powerful, utterly useless against Sableye, and setup bait for either Chandelure or Froslass depending on what its secondary Priority move is. Without Stone Edge it's bait for Crobat, Togekiss, and Zapdos. SD or Bulk Up Heracross loves setting up on it. Claydol can just sit there and spam Earthquake or poison it with Toxic and wait it out. Venomoth can easily come in and set up on them, and even if TechniTop has Stone Edge it's a simple matter to put them to sleep with Sleep Powder. Yanmega can sweep your whole damn team if it lacks Stone Edge... and even if it does, you can't beat Protect+Speed Boost variants. And the list goes on and on. Too many Pokemon have an open invitation to come in on you if you use TechniTop.
  7. DestinyUnknown

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    The problem isn't exactly that ''A or B threat can come on Technitop and sweep you'' (because the other Hitmontop set could fit that description too, and you need to have something for those threats), but EonADS is definitely right in that Technitop is too easy to stop to be really worth using. I understand that powerful priority is cool and all, but Technitop is too easy to stop by the miriad of Flying, Ghost and Psychic pokemon on the tier to be of use, as whenever your opponent doesn't see Intimidate it's just obvious you're using Technitop and he will switch in their go to Fighting type counter, which Technitop can't even damage (think of Crobat, Cofagrigus, Zapdos, Slowbro, etc), so not even the ''surprise'' argument works here.

    I would definitely like to know what other QC members think about it, but I haven't ever seen anybody using TechniTop succesfully on BW UU, and I don't think it warrants its own set. An OO mention is enough in my opinion.
  8. kokoloko

    kokoloko from Mexico
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    I honestly have not seen TechniTop used successfully in BW UU a single time and it seems pretty obvious to me that it sucks. Honestly, if you're using Hitmontop in the first place it's because you're desperate for a spinner... so that should be the only set.

    Anyway, this gets the approval from me as it is. I won't approve it with TechniTop. I suppose we'll have to wait on other QC members' opinions before moving forward.
  9. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Alright, point taken. Upon further inspection, Technitop is decidingly mediocre.
  10. Nas

    Nas
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    You should probably mention that Hitmontop appreciates a having a strong Pursuit user on its team to help it spin successfully, since Foresight isn't going to help against Chandelure. Also, Nidoqueen/King should be mentioned in the Checks and Counters section, since Top can't prevent their Stealth Rocks from going up. Once you make those changes, I'll approve this.
  11. EonADS

    EonADS

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    ^ Done, done, aaaaand done. Also added mention of Mew to C&C because let's face it, Hitmontop can't do jack to Mew.
  12. Nas

    Nas
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    QC Approved (1/3)
  13. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
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    QC Approved 2/3
  14. kokoloko

    kokoloko from Mexico
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    QC Approved 3/3
  15. EonADS

    EonADS

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    Writeup complete, finally fixed the goddamn formatting. Ready for GP checks.

    First writeup since Ninetales last gen, so expect mistakes.
  16. Lesser Smaug

    Lesser Smaug

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    More amateur GP checks...

    Comments in (bold brackets) (be careful not to confuse this with additions)
    Additions in Bold
    Removals in Red

    Amateur GP check (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>For a Pokemon that spends the majority of its life balancing on the tip of its head, Hitmontop is no pushover. This plucky little Fighting-type takes its place in UU through the combination of its bulk, Intimidate ability, and Rapid Spin. One of the best utility checks in the tieir, Hitmontop is one of the few Pokemon that can stop Choice Scarfed Heracross from sweeping through a team and still pereform its other duties. However, it's not all joy and rainbows for Hitmontop; the large number of offensive Ghost-types in UU makes it difficult for Hitmontop to spin if it wants to stay in one piece. Add to that the common appearances of Flying- and Psychic-types in the tieir, and Hitmontop really has its work cut out for it. Hitmontop also proves itself something of a liability on more offensive teams, and cannot be haphazardly thrown onto a team despite its status as a supporting Pokemon. Despite these limitations, Hitmontop is very good at what it does, and if you manage to fit it into a team properly, it will serve you well.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rapid Spin
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Foresight / Toxic
    move 3: Sucker Punch / Stone Edge
    move 4: Close Combat
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Intimidate
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Hitmontop's only real niche in UU is that of a bulky Rapid Spinner, and it performs its job admirably. Between Hitmontop's physical bulk, Intimidate, and its pure Fighting-typing, it becomes capable of Spinning against a large portion of the metagame. Foresight combines with Rapid Spin to make it impossible to stop Hitmontop from Spinning unless your opponent is packing two Ghost-types. Unfortunately, if your opponent lacks a Ghost-type, it becomes a wasted moveslot instead. If you'd rather not take that risk, Toxic is available as a more passive option. It's good for wearing down the bulkier gGhost-types like such as Cofagrigus and Sableye if you can predict the switch-in, and most of Hitmontop's checks and counters also hate being badly poisoned. Sucker Punch and Stone Edge are Hitmontop's coverage options. Sucker Punch compliments Hitmontop's STAB and is good for picking off weakened enemies, while Stone Edge gives Hitmontop a fighting chance (no pun intended) against Chandelure and Froslass. It also gives it a weapon against Flying-types like Zapdos and Crobat, which is greatly appreciated. Close Combat rounds out the moveset as Hitmontop's most stable STAB move. It has a good combination of decent power and low risk, and the stat drops are easily mitigated both by Intimidate and timely switching.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Most of Hitmontop's other options are either outclassed or not worth considering. Aerial Ace is nice to use against Heracross and other Fighting-types that Hitmontop will often be used to check, but forefeiting the coverage of Stone Edge or the priority of Sucker Punch isn't worth it. It also seriously lacks power without Technician as Hitmontop's ability. Rest is decent if you have access to Heal Bell support, but otherwise it's a terrible idea that turns Hitmontop into a dead weight; you're probably better off sticking to Wish support or choosing to forego extra healing moves entirely. Low Kick and Revenge are more conservative Fighting-type STABs, but they are not as consistent as Close Combat in terms of damage output. On the other end of the scale, Hi-Jump Kick is a much riskier STAB, but has slightly more power; it's generally not worth it. Finally, Pursuit might seem like a good idea for picking off Foresight-stricken Ghosts-types if they attempt to switch out, but they're just as likely to attack you.</p>

    <p>Hitmontop is capable of acting as a solid utility check thanks to its extensive physical bulk and Intimidate. Pokemon such as Choice Scarfed Heracross, Choice Scarfed Krookodile, Speed Boost Sharpedo, Flygon, Weavile, and even Swords Dance Cobalion are all examples of Pokemon that Hitmontop is capable of stopping under the right conditions. Hard-hitting Pokemon such as Yanmega, Darmanitan, Weavile, and Chandelure all enjoy the removal of entry hazards and appreciate Hitmontop's ability to block the aforementioned threats. Unfortunately, Hitmontop itself also requires team support to function effectively. First and foremost are Dark-types, particularly those with access to Pursuit like Honchkrow, Weavile, and Houndoom. They are capable of running down Ghost-types that would block Hitmontop's Rapid Spin and can also picking off Psychic-types like such as Mew and Azelf, which have a field day switching into Hitmontop and making its life miserable. Houndoom in particular is worthy of note because it beats Chandelure into the ground, thus eliminating one of the Pokemon Hitmontop has the most issues with. Hitmontop also has issues with Flying-types, particularly Togekiss and Crobat. Thus, a Flying-type resist is almost mandatory. Bronzong, Bisharp, and Rhyperior are all good choices for this position. Bulky Zapdos is also a decent pick because it can pick off opposing fliers Flying-types with super-effective Electric STAB attacks and heal off any damage it takes with Roost. Umbreon is one of the best Hitmontop partners. In addition to sponging special attacks aimed at Hitmontop, the Moonlight Pokemon can easily pass Wishes to keep Hitmontop healthy and heal off nasty status from Hitmontop with Heal Bell. The two handle a decent number of each other's checks and counters have great defensive synergy as well, making them an effective defensive core.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Sadly, Hitmontop is very limited in terms of what it can do in UU. The old standby TechniTop has fallen to the wayside, as too many Pokemon like Zapdos, Yanmega, and Cofagrigus can freely switch into Hitmontop's moves and deal heavy damage both to it and the rest of your team. A Bulk Up set might seem like a good idea, but it is outclassed by other Bulk Up or Curse abusers like such as Scrafty and Snorlax, and it also lacks both the power and the bulk to do its job without excessive support. The rest of Htimontop's movepool also has a few options that have not yet been mentioned, but they are sorely outclassed. Brick Break and Triple Kick lack the power to deal effective damage, and Triple Kick is also inconsistent in terms of both damage output and accuracy. Earthquake or Technician Bulldoze might seem like good ideas for hitting Nidoqueen and Nidoking while retaining coverage against Chandelure, but they have redundant coverage with Hitmontop's STAB moves. Finally, Counter is an acceptable move if you don't mind letting Hitmontop take a few hits. and iIt has decent surprise value, but it is neither reliable nor recommended.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Hitmontop has a lot of Pokemon that can counter it under the right circumstances, but most of them must beware of at least one move from Hitmontop. Mew is one of the few exceptions to this rule; any set with Heal Bell or a Lum Berry can switch into and destroy Hitmontop with near impunity. Togekiss can somewhat claim the same for Heal Bell sets, but less bulky sets must beware of switching into Stone Edge. Nidoqueen and Nidoking both run roughshod over Hitmontop; it is hapless to do anything against them one-on-one. Even getting rid of eliminating Stealth Rock is beyond it when faced with the offensive power of the royal pains. Cofagrigus, Slowbro, Gallade, and Sableye all hate Toxic, but otherwise laugh at anything Hitmontop could do and easily set up on it. Zapdos is somewhat capable, but it hates both Stone Edge and Toxic, particularly if it is running an offensive set. Similarly, bulky Roserade can act as a solid check to Hitmontop, but repeated switch-ins can wear it down, as Close Combat and Stone Edge deal around 35% damage. Tricking a Choice item to Hitmontop cuts down on its effectiveness, but can also create more of a problem if Hitmontop manages to make use of the boost it gives. Ultimately, Hitmontop isn't the problem so much as the support it provides. Either have something that spits on everything it can do or take it out quickly, else you <em>will</em> (I believe you need these tags in order for the italics to parse correctly on-site.) regret it for the entirety of the match.</p>


    There sure were some mistakes in there, which are fixed in this check. However, this did not need a lot of fixing. Overall, good job!
  17. EonADS

    EonADS

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    ^ Thanks Lesser Smaug. Changes implemented, save for one.

    Adding an "a" there is pointless. The gist of the sentence is that Hitmontop becomes dead weight for the remainder of your team to carry if you use Rest, not that Hitmontop itself is a dead weight. Either one is technically correct, but the first one has a slightly more positive connotation. I've edited the sentence to clarify that, though.
  18. mikel

    mikel @ air baloon
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    Amateur check~

    additions removals comments

    Show Hide

  19. Redew

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    Stamping that

    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  20. Oglemi

    Oglemi THE DREAM IS REAL
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    added Mikel's check and added my own

    This is good to go then
  21. kokoloko

    kokoloko from Mexico
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    excellent; well done everybody

    uploaded

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