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Ho-Oh (Choice Band)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Tobes, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
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    [​IMG]

    [SET]
    name: KACAW MOTHERFUCKER Choice Band
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Sleep Talk / Punishment
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Ho-Oh's greatest weakness has historically been Stealth Rock, which has dissuaded the use of Choice items on it. However, with Regenerator Ho-Oh is able to switch in and out more freely, allowing it to wield the fearsome power of a Choice Band with far less risk. With a Choice Band, Ho-Oh becomes incredibly difficult to switch into; while a Life Orb also grants a comparable level of power, Choice Band's lack of recoil is appealing&mdash;even with Regenerator, Ho-Oh does not want to deal with additional passive damage when Stealth Rock is up. Choice Band-boosted Sacred Fire has amazing power in the sun, doing things such as OHKOing Arceus and Dialga after Stealth Rock and providing a comfortable 2HKO on physically defensive Groudon. It also ensures that Ho-Oh can take lead Deoxys-S down to its Focus Sash and&mdash;due to the chance of burn&mdash;limit Deoxys-S to one layer of hazards 47.5% of the time. Brave Bird is also incredibly powerful, OHKOing Kyogre and Palkia with no prior damage. It also 2HKOes Giratina-O, Forretress, most physically defensive Arceus formes, and can even nab a 2HKO on physically defensive Giratina with Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes. Earthquake covers Tyranitar, Rock Arceus, Kabutops, Omastar, Heatran, and Dialga in rain. Sleep Talk allows Ho-Oh to provide a relatively safe switch-in to Darkrai's dreaded Dark Void, while Punishment can be used to smash Calm Mind users weak to it, such as Ghost Arceus, Giratina-O, and Latias.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Heavy HP investment gives Ho-Oh more bulk and makes the use of Brave Bird much less risky. Alternatively, maximum Speed can be used to get the drop on as many other base 90 Pokemon as possible, but the loss in bulk is noticeable. Ho-Oh's movepool is quite sparse, so what's listed here is about as good as it gets. Very niche options for the fourth slot include Aerial Ace to guarantee a connection against an Evasion booster, and Recover to help deal with residual damage if a free turn is presented&mdash;this is of course very risky on a Choice-locked Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Rapid Spin support is actually more important for this set than sunlight. Unlike other sets, which have access to recovery, this Ho-Oh will be switching out often and relying on Regenerator to keep itself alive. Forretress can Rapid Spin while also providing entry hazards and switch-in opportunities with Volt Switch. Excadrill can switch into Zekrom fairly safely, and can provide Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock as well. Groudon is also an important supporter for this set&mdash;while the raw power of Brave Bird allows this set to function even in rain, Ho-Oh greatly appreciates boosted Sacred Fires and a neutrality to Water-type moves. Groudon can provide Stealth Rock as well, which makes Multiscale Lugia easier to handle and ensures a few important OHKOes and 2HKOes. Offensively, Extreme Killer Arceus is an excellent complement to this set, as is Rock Polish Groudon. Both greatly enjoy this set's ability to cripple opposing Giratina and Groudon, and Sacred Fire's burn rate can grant easy set-up opportunities for them. Ho-Oh is also an excellent switch-in to Choice Scarf Genesect, something which can interfere with a weakened Extreme Killer Arceus's sweep. Defensively, partners that can switch into Kyogre are very important; Latias and Palkia are good examples.</p>
  2. jackm

    jackm

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    You may as well mention Bulldoze (horrible, but bear with me) because it improves your chances of KOing Offensive Dialga under rain. Almost completely useless, but so is Aerial Ace.

    Also, you should mention max speed Tyranitar for speed creep, it's pretty rare but you only need to invest 24 evs. Just saying, otherwise this looks pretty good. Make mention of the fact that Arceus-Rock can wear you down pretty easily, I guess.
  3. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Couple of things:

    Are we allowed to say that in the analysis? I thought we don't mention speed creep in analyses.

    This should be first, IMO. Rapid Spin support is more important to Ho-oh than Groudon is. Ho-oh can work outside of sun. It cannot (especially CB, with Brave Bird recoil, no Roost and 50% off every turn) work without Rapid Spin. Just because it got Regenerator does not mean Rapid Spin is any less important.

    Other than that,
    [qc]2/3[/qc]
  4. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    I guess Facade can be a 4th option for a status Ho-Oh. But basically the two STABs are all you need.

    Mention Earthquake hits Rock-Acreus as well, by the way.
  5. ElCee

    ElCee

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    This is probably going to sound dumb but couldn't you theoretically use Incinerate in the 4th slot to only give Forretress one layer? Yeah it's useless against everything else but if the 4th slot really is that much of a throwaway...

    EDIT: Actually I typo'd on my value for Incinerate in the calculator, it's not a feasible 2HKO(neither is Pluck) which defeats the purpose :(
  6. Organization Member XIV

    Organization Member XIV

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    ElCee, I WOULD recommend Pluck instead, but sadly it's only a Gen IV TM iirc. Can someone verify that please?
  7. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
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    Sacred Fire does the same thing in that scenario 47.5% of the time. Incinerate is just bad and Pluck is even worse against Forretress, and neither are going to be mentioned.
  8. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Imo Punishment, Aerial Ace, and Flame Charge are all good enough for AC. Punishment deals ~75% to +1/+1 252 HP GhostCeus, and 96% min at +2/+2, while Ho-Oh easily tanks even a +2 Judgement. It also allows Ho-Oh to OHKO 252 HP Latias after a CM, and unlike BB you get to keep Ho-Oh alive. It also is a surefire killing tool against any CM Giratina(-O). But because Punishment is so good against CM GhostCeus, one of the most threatening sweepers that H-Oh fares perfect against, i suggest giving it a slash in the last slot.

    As for the other two moves, Aerial Ace is just for the ability to negate evasion boosts and some rare occasions where you want to hit something with a Flying attack but without taking recoil, and Flame Charge can sometimes allow Ho-Oh to clean a very weakened team with Sun support, while providing with an alternative Fire STAB in case Sacred Fire runs out, which is not something very difficult to happen.
  9. Nexus

    Nexus Day 358: Believe
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    Needs one more QC check, someone get to it.
  10. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
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    It's not written up fully yet. So, it really doesn't.-.
  11. Theorymon

    Theorymon ☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄
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    I honestly have nothing to nitpick here o_O.

    QC 3/3
  12. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
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    Ready for GP
  13. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
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    am check (open)

    [SET]
    name: KACAW MOTHERFUCKER Choice Band
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Sleep Talk / Punishment
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Ho-Oh's greatest weakness has historically been Stealth Rock, which has dissuaded the use of Choice items on it. However, with Regenerator Ho-Oh is able to switch in and out more freely, allowing it to wield the fearsome power of a Choice Band with far less risk. With a Choice Band, (comma) Ho-Oh becomes incredibly difficult to switch into. While a Life Orb also grants a comparable level of power, Choice bBand's lack of recoil is appealing&mdash;; (semicolon) even with Regenerator, Ho-Oh does not want to deal with additional passive damage when Stealth Rock is up. Choice Band Sacred Fire has amazing power in the sun, doing things such as OHKOing Arceus and Dialga after Stealth Rock, and providing a comfortable 2HKO on physically defensive Groudon. It also ensures that Ho-Oh can take lead Deoxys-S down to its Focus Sash, and,&mdash;(em dash)due to the chance of burn, &mdash;(em dash)limit Deoxys-S to one layer of hazards 47.5% of the time. Brave Bird is also incredibly powerful, OHKOing Kyogre and Palkia with no prior damage. It also 2HKOes Giratina-O, Forretress, and most physically defensive Arceus formes, and; (semicolon) it can even nab a 2HKO on physically defensive Giratina with Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes. Earthquake covers Tyranitar, Arceus-Rock, Kabutops, Omastar, Heatran, and Dialga in rain. Sleep Talk in the last slot allows Ho-Oh to provide a relatively safe switch-in to Darkrai's dreaded Dark Void, while Punishment can be used to smash Calm Mind Arceus-Ghost, Calm Mind Giratina-O, and Calm Mind Latias.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Heavy HP investment gives Ho-Oh more bulk, and makes the use of Brave Bird much less risky. Alternatively, maximum Speed can be used to get the drop on as manyll other Base 90 Pokemon as possible, but the loss in bulk is noticeable. Ho-Oh's movepool is quite sparse, so what's listed here is about as good as it gets. Very nNiche options for the fourth slot include Aerial Ace to guarantee a connection against an Evasion abmove user, and Recover to help deal with residual damage if a free turn is presented&mdash;this is of course very risky on a Choice-locked Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Rapid Spin support is actually more important for this set than sunlight. Unlike other sets, withhich have access to recovery, this Ho-Oh will be switching in and out often and, forcing it to relying on Regenerator to keep itselfstay alive. Forretress can use Rapid Spin while alsond providinge entry hazards and switch-in opportunities with Volt Switch. Excadrill can switch into Zekrom fairly safely, and can providutilize Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock as well. Groudon is also an important supporter for this set&mdash; (semicolon) while the raw power of Brave Bird allows this set to function decently even in rain, Ho-Oh greatly appreciates the boosted to Sacred Fires and a neutrality to Water-type moves. Groudon can provide Stealth Rock as well, which makes Multiscale Lugia easier to handle and asensures a few important OHKOes and 2HKOes. Offensively, Extreme Killer Arceus is an excellent complement to this set, as is Rock Polish Groudon. Both greatly enjoy this set's ability to cripple opposing Giratina and Groudon, and Sacred Fire's burn rate can grant easy set-up opportunities for them. Ho-Oh is also an excellent switch-in to Choice Scarf Genesect, something which can interfere with a weakened Extreme Killer Arceus's sweep. Defensively, partners that can switch into Kyogre are very important; Latias and Palkia are good examples.</p>

    The only issue I saw really was using commas before "and"; it's unnecessary. Good job.
  14. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego Living in a world gone plastic
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    Stamping Pokemon0078's check with one change

    Choice Band-boosted Sacred Fire has amazing power in the sun, doing things such as OHKOing Arceus and Dialga after Stealth Rock

    Implement above and

    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  15. Oglemi

    Oglemi <&Oglemi> i am a gay badger buddy :3
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    Show Hide
    [SET]
    name: KACAW MOTHERFUCKER Choice Band
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Sleep Talk / Punishment
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Ho-Oh's greatest weakness has historically been Stealth Rock, which has dissuaded the use of Choice items on it. However, with Regenerator Ho-Oh is able to switch in and out more freely, allowing it to wield the fearsome power of a Choice Band with far less risk. With a Choice Band, Ho-Oh becomes incredibly difficult to switch into; while a Life Orb also grants a comparable level of power, Choice Band's lack of recoil is appealing&mdash;even with Regenerator, Ho-Oh does not want to deal with additional passive damage when Stealth Rock is up. Choice Band-boosted Sacred Fire has amazing power in the sun, doing things such as OHKOing Arceus and Dialga after Stealth Rock and providing a comfortable 2HKO on physically defensive Groudon. It also ensures that Ho-Oh can take lead Deoxys-S down to its Focus Sash and&mdash;due to the chance of burn&mdash;limit Deoxys-S to one layer of hazards 47.5% of the time. Brave Bird is also incredibly powerful, OHKOing Kyogre and Palkia with no prior damage. It also 2HKOes Giratina-O, Forretress, most physically defensive Arceus formes, and can even nab a 2HKO on physically defensive Giratina with Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes. Earthquake covers Tyranitar, Rock Arceus, Kabutops, Omastar, Heatran, and Dialga in rain. Sleep Talk allows Ho-Oh to provide a relatively safe switch-in to Darkrai's dreaded Dark Void, while Punishment can be used to smash Calm Mind users weak to it, such as Ghost Arceus, Giratina-O, and Latias.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Heavy HP investment gives Ho-Oh more bulk and makes the use of Brave Bird much less risky. Alternatively, maximum Speed can be used to get the drop on as many other base 90 Pokemon as possible, but the loss in bulk is noticeable. Ho-Oh's movepool is quite sparse, so what's listed here is about as good as it gets. Very niche options for the fourth slot include Aerial Ace to guarantee a connection against an evasion booster, and Recover to help deal with residual damage if a free turn is presented&mdash;this is of course very risky on a Choice-locked Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Rapid Spin support is actually more important for this set than sunlight. Unlike other sets, which have access to recovery, this Ho-Oh will be switching out often and relying on Regenerator to keep itself alive. Forretress can Rapid Spin while also providing entry hazards and switch-in opportunities with Volt Switch. Excadrill can switch into Zekrom fairly safely, and can provide Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock as well. Groudon is also an important supporter for this set&mdash;while the raw power of Brave Bird allows this set to function even in rain, Ho-Oh greatly appreciates boosted Sacred Fires and a neutrality to Water-type moves. Groudon can provide Stealth Rock as well, which makes Multiscale Lugia easier to handle and ensures a few important OHKOes and 2HKOes. Offensively, Extreme Killer Arceus is an excellent complement to this set, as is Rock Polish Groudon. Both greatly enjoy this set's ability to cripple opposing Giratina and Groudon, and Sacred Fire's burn rate can grant easy set-up opportunities for them. Ho-Oh is also an excellent switch-in to Choice Scarf Genesect, something which can interfere with a weakened Extreme Killer Arceus's sweep. Defensively, partners that can switch into Kyogre are very important; Latias and Palkia are good examples.</p>


    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  16. Nexus

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    Ho-Oh uploaded, moving.

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