Ho-Oh (Physically Defensive)

[His Eminence Lord Poppington II]

[SET]
name: Physically Defensive
move 1: Sacred Fire
move 2: Brave Bird
move 3: Substitute / Earthquake / Whirlwind
move 4: Recover / Roost
item: Leftovers
ability: Regenerator
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Ho-Oh's Defense may not seem like much, but when fully invested and with the assistance of Sacred Fire burns, the rainbow phoenix can take its fair share of physical abuse. This Ho-Oh aims to spread burns through Sacred Fire and act as an excellent pivot through Regenerator. Full investment in Defense allows Ho-Oh to take a myriad of physical attacks much more comfortably; Extreme Killer's +2 ExtremeSpeed, Rayquaza's +1 Outrage, Mewtwo's + 1 Psystrike, and Support Groudon's Stone Edge all fail to OHKO.</p>

<p>Sacred Fire is needed to spread burns, and Brave Bird is the other obligatory STAB attack that still deals respectable damage, even with minimum investment. Substitute is the primary option to ease prediction and protect Ho-Oh from status. Earthquake can also be used to hit Heatran and the Rock-types that plague Ho-Oh. Whirlwind is anther option to rack up hazard damage and scout switches, and it is especially effective because Ho-Oh forces out a lot of Pokemon. Recover gives Ho-Oh some much needed longevity outside of switching out repeatedly. Roost can be used with a faster spread to absorb mitigated Ice-, Rock-, and Electric-type attacks.</p>

<p>The EV spread is simple as it maximizes Defense and maintains an odd HP number to round down Stealth Rock damage. The leftover EVs are placed in Attack to give a little kick to Sacred Fire and Brave Bird. Combined with Regenerator, this Ho-Oh can switch endlessly into both Giratina Formes, only taking significant damage from invested Outrage. Ho-Oh still has massive Special Defense, meaning it can still perform its normal duties of switching into the powerful special attacks thrown about in Ubers.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Like all other Ho-Oh sets, the removal of Stealth Rock is greatly appreciated; Forretress, Tentacruel, and Excadrill are all excellent spinners in Ubers. Groudon isn't nearly as necessary for this set as other Ho-Oh sets, as Sacred Fire's primary job is to spread burns. A physically defensive Ghost Pokemon, such as RestTalk Giratina-O, pairs excellently with this Ho-Oh, absorbing the weak attacks of burned Pokemon and phazing with Dragon Tail. Ferrothorn is also a great partner to this set, as it handles the majority of rain teams as well as walling Choice Scarf Zekrom. Latias, Palkia, Chansey, and Blissey also make for great defensive partners, absorbing the strong special attacks that Ho-Oh can't.</p>

<p>This set still fears rain-boosted Water-type attacks from Pokemon such as Kyogre and Palkia, in addition to Thunders thrown around, although those will not KO. Stone Edge from any offensively inclined Pokemon will still KO Ho-Oh, although defensive Groudons has a chance not to. Jolly Choice Scarf Zekrom's Bolt Strike has a chance not to KO, but Adamant is still guaranteed.<p>

<p>Thunder Wave can be used over one of the attacking options, as it is very annoying for opposing Ho-Oh, and can cripple other threats that rely on their speed, such as over eager Choice Scarf Kyogre looking to switch in on Sacred Fire. Toxic is also viable, crippling Lugia, and Arceus Rock, two of Ho-Oh's greatest checks, but they don't exactly appreciate Thunder Wave either.</p>

 

[Furai]

248 HP / 16 Atk / 244 Def and Adamant nature should be the spread in my opinion. With these Attack EVs you guarantee the 2HKO on Leftovers-less 240 HP Extreme Killer Arceus with Stealth Rock and sun. Impish nature would require a spread of 248 HP / 132 Atk / 128 Def to achieve so, and its Attack is 1 point lower from the Adamant spread, whereas its Defense is 5 points lower. Looking good, but mention more teammates in AC! Would stamp this but no.

 

[Donkey]

I run more speed on that set when I run it:

EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)

I find it's nice to scout base 90s, especially bulky groudon sets.

 

[trickroom]

I run more speed on that set when I run it:
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
I find it's nice to scout base 90s

Analyses do not encourage Speed Creeps. 4 Speed EVs is the maximum this Ho-Oh set should put in the analysis.

Impish should stay as the primary option. It allows you to survive things like +1 Outrage from Rayquaza better. This Ho-Oh is meant to spread burns and abuse Regenerator at the same time so Impish > Adamant. After you burn Arceus, it isn't problematic at all.

With Impish you survive Support Groudon's Stone Edge guaranteed. 76.1% - 90.6%
Jolly Scarf Zekrom is doing 88.2% - 104.1% with Bolt Strike to Impish Ho-Oh. Adamant dies most of the time.

Mewtwo Psytrike vs Impish Ho-Oh - 44.8% - 52.8% ( You survive 2 hits guaranteed with lefties. )

I like to see Whirlwind at least mentioned because you get to phaze pretty easily. With the additional bulk, Whirlwind can be used more effectively. Ho-Oh forces out many things too anyway.

Looking good, but mention more teammates in AC! Would stamp this but no.

Latias, Palkia, Giratina, Blissey, Forretress are all great partners. Ferrothorn is still a great partner to this Ho-Oh set. Ferrothorn is a great check to most rain teams and beats most Kyogre versions. Choice Scarf Zekrom also gets walled by Ferrothorn.

 

[shrang]

Yeah, I reckon Whirlwind would be a good option, especially if depending on that 50% burn is too risky (eg Ho-oh is your last line of defense against +2 ExtremeKiller Arceus), phazing away the physical threat can at least be a better move. It also lets you godstomp Giratina-A that you forced to use Rest with. Just Brave Bird it once, Whirlwind it out, Brave Bird it again, Whirlwind again and continue until it's dead.

 

[His Eminence Lord Poppington II]

made changes, ready for stamps

edit: i can hold off on this because ho-oh probably needs an analysis revamp, might as well push this through QC as it's a new set anyway though?

 

[hamiltonion]

248 HP / 16 Atk / 244 Def and Adamant nature should be the spread in my opinion. With these Attack EVs you guarantee the 2HKO on Leftovers-less 240 HP Extreme Killer Arceus with Stealth Rock and sun.

Pedantic really. Ho-Oh doesnt need to 2hko Arceus when you're burning it with like 50% chance. As an aside this looks good, just mention that when you're running Whirlwind, a bit of Speed investment should be considered, especially since unlike Tina / other walls, Ho-Oh hates getting phazed out and probably eating 50% from SR.

QC Approved 1/3

 

[giggity69]

I run more speed on that set when I run it:

EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)

I find it's nice to scout base 90s, especially bulky groudon sets.

I love that when a player posts a really obscure set and it gains traction, there is always someone that needs the validation of pretending they used it before...

No one is fooled :)

 

[shrang]

edit: i can hold off on this because ho-oh probably needs an analysis revamp, might as well push this through QC as it's a new set anyway though?

That's okay, if this gets past QC, whoever's revamping the analysis can just go "refer to *this thread* for the Physically Defensive set"

QC APPROVED 2/3

 

[Pokémon Trainer R]

I believe this set definitely deserves a mention:

Phoenixmon (Ho-Oh) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Recover
- Sacred Fire
- Thunder Wave
- Whirlwind

A physically defensive Ho-Oh inspired by what Donkey mentioned about Ho-Oh here. It is an awesome counter to both Extreme Killer Arceus and, ironically, other Ho-Oh, two Pokémon in the Übers tier that are known to be otherwise extraordinarily difficult to counter. It can switch into Arceus as it Swords Dances before pseudo-hazing it away with Whirlwind while taking a boosted ExtremeSpeed with ease, and it can do this numerous times throughout the match without having to use Recover in between, thanks to its immense physical bulk as well as its Regenerator Ability. It can also easily survive two Brave Birds from other Ho-Oh and Whirlwind them away, and as long as they are not behind a Substitute, Phoenixmon can also paralyze them with Thunder Wave. With its huge defenses, it can also serve as an excellent counter to Reshiram, Palkia, Latias, Latios, Giratina, Blaziken, most Calm Mind Arceus, and many other Pokémon, and also paralyze them, making them much easier to defeat by other Pokémon in the team. Sacred Fire is one of the best attacks in existence, and can serve as both a powerful offensive move in the Sun, as well as a means of spreading burns upon the opponent's team, which helps to cripple physical sweepers as well as stall-oriented Pokémon such as Lugia. With Regenerator, Recover, Whirlwind, supreme bulk in both the physical realm and the special realm, as well as the ability to spread two incredibly useful status effects, Phoenixmon makes for an excellent supporter, provided it is used in a team with Magic Bounce support.

The EVs and Nature are to allow it to barely outrun the myriad of Pokémon in the tier that have 90 base Speed and 4 or 8 EVs invested in Speed, as well as to maximize its physical bulk, since the primary purpose of this Pokémon is to counter Arceus-Normal and other Ho-Oh, and Phoenixmon also does not need any Special Defense EVs anyway, since its Special Defense is already naturally high enough to wall most special attackers in the tier without investment.

 

[Furai]

Pedantic really. Ho-Oh doesnt need to 2hko Arceus when you're burning it with like 50% chance. As an aside this looks good, just mention that when you're running Whirlwind, a bit of Speed investment should be considered, especially since unlike Tina / other walls, Ho-Oh hates getting phazed out and probably eating 50% from SR.

QC Approved 1/3

I think it's at least AC material, if risking the 50% is not to your likely

 

[trickroom]

Phoenixmon (Ho-Oh) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Recover
- Sacred Fire
- Thunder Wave
- Whirlwind

Please use the standard SpD when mentioning Special Defense or Spe for Speed. 12 Speed EVs = Speed Creep.

Only Thunder Wave needs to be mentioned in AC actually. It plays similarly to the set in this analysis. Missing Brave Bird means you can't hurt things who resists Fire, Kyogre, Palkia, Reshiram, and a whole list of others. Having only an 8 PP Attack on a defensive pokemon sucks.

It can also easily survive two Brave Birds from other Ho-Oh and Whirlwind them away, and as long as they are not behind a Substitute,

Or you can just wall them and keep breaking other Ho-Oh's sub with Brave Bird ( the Ho-Oh set in this analysis). Dropping Brave Bird means opposing Ho-Oh walls you, not the other way round. Substitute blocks Thunder Wave so you can only phaze.

it can also serve as an excellent counter to Reshiram, Palkia, Latias, Latios, Giratina, Blaziken, most Calm Mind Arceus

Reshiram and Giratina wall you too. You must kill it with Whirlwind through entry hazards damage. When you have Brave Bird, you can just smash Reshiram directly or at least touch Giratina. Blaziken can be OHKOed by Brave Bird directly instead of using Thunder Wave.

Adamant spread can go into AC.

QC APPROVED 3/3

 

[Jibaku]

Before this goes on site wouldn't it be a good idea to update/revamp the current Ho-Oh analysis as well? Would be awkward to just place in a Regenerator set when everything else has Pressure and has Regenerator listed under Unreleased.

 

[giggity69]

That's okay, if this gets past QC, whoever's revamping the analysis can just go "refer to *this thread* for the Physically Defensive set"

QC APPROVED 2/3

I thought that was already the plan

 

[His Eminence Lord Poppington II]

yo, okay i will put thunder-wave in AC and mention that it helps with ho-oh a lot (although with whirlwind you beat it anyway)

@ jibaku - i'm fine with holding out on the uploading stage, but i can finalize everything else before the revamp.

 

[Andy Snype]

add/replace with
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comments

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[SET]
name: Physically Defensive
move 1: Sacred Fire
move 2: Brave Bird
move 3: Substitute / Earthquake / Whirlwind
move 4: Recover / Roost
item: Leftovers
ability: Regenerator
nature: Impish
evs: 248 Hp / 8 Atk / 252 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Ho-Oh's Physical Defense may not seem like much, but when fully invested and with the assistance of Sacred Fire burns, the rainbow phoenix can take its fair share of physical abuse. This Ho-Oh aims to spread burns through Sacred Fire and act as an excellent pivot through Regenerator. Full investment in Physical Defense allows Ho-Oh to take a myriad of physical attacks much more comfortably; Extremekiller's +2 ExtremeSpeed, Ho-Oh's +1 Outrage, Mewtwo's + 1 Psystrike, Support Groudon's Stone Edge all fail to OHKO.</p>

<p>Sacred Fire is needed to spread burns, and Brave Bird is the other obligatory STAB attack that still deals respectable damage, even with minimum investment. Substitute is the primary option to ease prediction and protect Ho-Oh from status. Earthquake can also be used to hit Heatran and the Rock types that plague Ho-Oh. Whirlwind can also be used to rack up hazard damage and scout switches; it is especially effective because Ho-Oh forces out a lot of Pokemon. Recover gives Ho-Oh some much needed longevity outside of switching out repeatedly. Roost can be used with a faster spread to absorb mitigated Ice, Rock, and Electric type attacks.</p>

<p>The EV spread is simple as it maximizes Physical Defense and maintains an odd HP number to round Stealth Rock damage down. The leftover EVs are placed in Attack to give a little kick to Sacred Fire and Brave Bird. Combined with Regenerator, this Ho-Oh can switch endlessly into both Giratina Formes, only really taking significant damage from invested Outrage. Ho-Oh still has massive Special Defense, meaning it can still perform its normal duties of switching into the powerful special attacks thrown about in Ubers. </p>


[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Like all other Ho-Oh sets, the removal of Stealth Rock is greatly appreciated; Forretress, Tentacruel, and Excadrill are all excellent spinners in Ubers. Groudon isn't nearly as necessary for this set as other Ho-Oh sets, as Sacred Fire's primary job is to spread burns. A physically defensive Ghost Pokemon, such as RestTalk Giratina-O, pairs excellently with this Ho-Oh, absorbing the weak attacks of burned Pokemon and phazing repeatedly with Dragon Tail. Ferrothorn is also a great partner to this set, as it handles the majority of rain teams, and also walls Choice Scarf Zekrom. Latias, Palkia, Chansey, and Blissey also make for great defensive partners, absorbing the strong special attacks that Ho-Oh can't. </p>

GP Approved (1/2)

 

[His Eminence Lord Poppington II]

thx andrew implemented GP 1/2

 

[TrollFreak]

This is so damn short, even I can check it

Placeholder, paying back the favor for my tutor

Blue = Oglemi's Changes
Red / Green = My Changes
() = My Comments

[SET]
name: Physically Defensive
move 1: Sacred Fire
move 2: Brave Bird
move 3: Substitute / Earthquake / Whirlwind
move 4: Recover / Roost
item: Leftovers
ability: Regenerator
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HpP / 8 Atk / 252 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Ho-Oh's Physical Defense may not seem like much, but when fully invested and with the assistance of Sacred Fire burns, the rainbow phoenix can take its fair share of physical abuse. This Ho-Oh aims to spread burns through Sacred Fire and act as an excellent pivot through Regenerator. Full investment in Physical Defense allows Ho-Oh to take a myriad of physical attacks much more comfortably; Extreme Killer's +2 ExtremeSpeed, Ho-OhRayquaza's +1 Outrage, Mewtwo's + 1 Psystrike, and Support Groudon's Stone Edge all fail to OHKO.</p> (I Think you mean Rayquaza, Ho-Oh doesn't get Outrage)

<p>Sacred Fire is needed to spread burns, and Brave Bird is the other obligatory STAB attack that still deals respectable damage, even with minimum investment. Substitute is the primary option to ease prediction and protect Ho-Oh from status. Earthquake can also be used to hit Heatran and the Rock-types that plague Ho-Oh. Whirlwind can also be used to rack up hazard damage and scout switches, it is especially effective because Ho-Oh forces out a lot of Pokemon. Recover gives Ho-Oh some much needed longevity outside of switching out repeatedly. Roost can be used with a faster spread to absorb mitigated Ice-, Rock-, and Electric-type attacks.</p>

(Moved the 3rd Para to AC, as explanations of the EV Spread goes there)

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EV spread is simple as it maximizes Physical Defense and maintains an odd HP number to round down Stealth Rock damage. The leftover EVs are placed in Attack to give a little kick to Sacred Fire and Brave Bird. Combined with Regenerator, this Ho-Oh can switch endlessly into both Giratina Formes, only taking significant damage from invested Outrage. Ho-Oh still has massive Special Defense, meaning it can still perform its normal duties of switching into the powerful special attacks thrown about in Ubers.</p>

<p>Like all other Ho-Oh sets, the removal of Stealth Rock is greatly appreciated; Forretress, Tentacruel, and Excadrill are all excellent spinners in Ubers. Groudon isn't nearly as necessary for this set as other Ho-Oh sets, as Sacred Fire's primary job is to spread burns. A physically defensive Ghost Pokemon, such as RestTalk Giratina-O, pairs excellently with this Ho-Oh, absorbing the weak attacks of burned Pokemon and phazing with Dragon Tail. Ferrothorn is also a great partner to this set, as it handles the majority of rain teams, and alsos well as wallsing Choice Scarf Zekrom. Latias, Palkia, Chansey, and Blissey also make for great defensive partners, absorbing the strong special attacks that Ho-Oh can't.</p>

 

[Oglemi]

Stamping TrollFreak's check for 2/2

I added in a couple of my own changes into his post btw :<

 

[His Eminence Lord Poppington II]

thx 2/2

 

[Iconic]

UPLOADING , good work , Poopy

jk nice analysis poppy

ok took offsite cuz of dw shit, heres what was onsite 4 reference cuz i edited shit

Hide

[SET]
name: Physically Defensive
move 1: Sacred Fire
move 2: Brave Bird
move 3: Substitute / Earthquake / Whirlwind
move 4: Recover / Roost
item: Leftovers
ability: Regenerator
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Ho-Oh's Defense may not seem like much, but when fully invested and with the assistance of Sacred Fire burns, the rainbow phoenix can take its fair share of physical abuse. This Ho-Oh aims to spread burns through Sacred Fire and act as an excellent pivot through Regenerator. Full investment in Defense allows Ho-Oh to take a myriad of physical attacks much more comfortably; Extreme Killer's +2 ExtremeSpeed, Rayquaza's +1 Outrage, Mewtwo's + 1 Psystrike, and Support Groudon's Stone Edge all fail to OHKO.</p>

<p>Sacred Fire is needed to spread burns, and Brave Bird is the other obligatory STAB attack that still deals respectable damage, even with minimum investment. Substitute is the primary option to ease prediction and protect Ho-Oh from status. Earthquake can also be used to hit Heatran and the Rock-types that plague Ho-Oh. Whirlwind is anther option to rack up hazard damage and scout switches, and it is especially effective because Ho-Oh forces out a lot of Pokemon. Recover gives Ho-Oh some much needed longevity outside of switching out repeatedly. Roost can be used with a faster spread to absorb mitigated Ice-, Rock-, and Electric-type attacks.</p>

<p>The EV spread is simple as it maximizes Defense and maintains an odd HP number to round down Stealth Rock damage. The leftover EVs are placed in Attack to give a little kick to Sacred Fire and Brave Bird. Combined with Regenerator, this Ho-Oh can switch endlessly into both Giratina Formes, only taking significant damage from invested Outrage. Ho-Oh still has massive Special Defense, meaning it can still perform its normal duties of switching into the powerful special attacks thrown about in Ubers. </p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Like all other Ho-Oh sets, the removal of Stealth Rock is greatly appreciated; Forretress, Tentacruel, and Excadrill are all excellent spinners in Ubers. Groudon isn't nearly as necessary for this set as other Ho-Oh sets, as Sacred Fire's primary job is to spread burns. A physically defensive Ghost Pokemon, such as RestTalk Giratina-O, pairs excellently with this Ho-Oh, absorbing the weak attacks of burned Pokemon and phazing with Dragon Tail. Ferrothorn is also a great partner to this set, as it handles the majority of rain teams as well as walling Choice Scarf Zekrom. Latias, Palkia, Chansey, and Blissey also make for great defensive partners, absorbing the strong special attacks that Ho-Oh can't. </p>

 

[Fatecrashers]

do not upload until ho oh has had a full revamp

screw you poppy for not making this clear

 

[His Eminence Lord Poppington II]

maybe not so good work after all, poppy................

 

[Furai]

hi this is probably my only post from usa so i hate you but this must be done

pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease make ac longer... there is so much to say there: specific counters, other moves, teammates..........


and this refers to evertyhing you've done


peace out

 

[His Eminence Lord Poppington II]

added an extra paragraph

jokes on you furai