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Ho-Oh revamp (GP 0/2)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by jackm, Mar 9, 2013.

  1. jackm

    jackm

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    Taking this over cuz Poppy quit

    Ready for GP checks, I'm pretty sure I didn't miss anything.


    [Overview]

    <p>Ho-Oh still holds its position as one of the top threats in the game. Its huge base 130 Attack, coupled with its powerful STAB options in Sacred Fire (which carries an impressive 50% burn rate) and Brave Bird, Ho-Oh can easily put serious hurt on anything that dares to stand up to it. Ho-Oh's amazing 106 base HP, 90 base Defense, and 154 base Special Defense in conjunction with reliable recovery mean that the rainbow phoenix will be very hard to take down; Regenerator only augments this survivability, allowing Ho-Oh to function as a bulky pivot. Ho-Oh also received a great new toy in the form of Flame Charge, which remedies its middling Speed and turns it from just a powerful attacker into a dangerous sweeper. Unfortunately, Stealth Rock will continue to be Ho-Oh's biggest weakness even with access to Regenerator, as the rainbow bird despises losing 50% of its HP on every switch-in. Nevertheless, Ho-Oh remains a top tier threat that can incinerate even the toughest of teams with ease.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Substitute / Earthquake / Whirlwind
    move 4: Recover
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Regenerator / Pressure
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 176 Atk / 84 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This Ho-Oh set takes advantage of its incredible defenses to take hits and dish out even more painful ones. This Ho-Oh, in particular, serves as a great defensive counter for a lot of threats, such as most Calm Mind Arceus, Darkrai, any Steel-type, Shaymin-S, Heatran, Palkia, Reshiram, Dialga, and much more.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire and Brave Bird are the main attacks, the former doing tremendous damage to anything that doesn't resist it and spreading burns to help make up for Ho-Oh's below-average Defense, and the latter annihilating Kyogre, Palkia, and Reshiram. Recover is chosen over Roost as Ho-Oh is not running much Speed at all with this set, and, therefore, will usually not be able to take advantage of the temporary Electric-type neutrality that Roost brings. Recover is better so Ho-Oh will always have its immunity to Ground-type attacks. However, Roost does allow Ho-Oh to stall out a burned Groudon's Stone Edge, so long as Groudon is slower than Ho-Oh. Substitute affords Ho-Oh status protection and gives it a way to strike at its checks without having to predict them switching in. Combined with Recover and Pressure, Ho-Oh can use Substitute to quite easily stall out the PP of dangerous moves such as Kyogre's Water Spout. Earthquake is an option as it rounds out the coverage superbly, 2HKOing all forms of Zekrom (and OHKOing offensive variants after taking damage from Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes) and denting Rock Arceus nicely, as well as always OHKOing Heatran but has far more merit with a Life Orb. Whirlwind allows Ho-Oh to become a great phazer, spreading passive damage around like wildfire while easily shrugging off damage with its excellent bulk and Recover.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread gives Ho-Oh a decent amount of power, while still retaining its high special bulk. +4 Timid Life Orb Darkrai will not OHKO this Ho-Oh, Choice Scarf Palkia only has a 3.13% to 2HKO with Thunder, 252+ Dialga's Draco Meteor will top at only 51.56%, and so long as Ho-Oh has Leftovers, it is never 2HKO'd by +1 neutral Arceus&mdash;that is, as long as Arceus does not have a super-effective STAB against Ho-Oh. A Life Orb can be used over Leftovers, trading longevity for power: the item allows important OHKOs and 2HKOs that Ho-Oh cannot achieve with Leftovers, such as almost guaranteeing the OHKO on Choice Scarf Kyogre with Brave Bird after Stealth Rock damage.</p>

    <p>Ho-Oh's favorite teammates are Groudon and a Rapid Spinner or Magic Bouncer; the former pumps up the power of Sacred Fire, while the latter keeps Stealth Rock from crippling Ho-Oh. It's important to note, however, that a Magic Bouncer will struggle to prevent Stealth Rock from going up against an offensive team. This set also really appreciates paralysis support to make up for its low Speed. Grass Arceus can easily deter Ground-types from switching in thanks to its typing, allowing it to easily slow down a large chunk of the enemy team with Thunder Wave. Dialga, Groudon, Lugia, Zekrom, Jirachi, and Blissey can all also spread paralysis very effectively. Lots of entry hazards of any kind are also recommended if using Whirlwind. Forretress can set up all three entry hazards, and Ho-Oh can easily come in on Fire-type attacks aimed at Forretress and begin to Whirlwind away.</p>

    <p>The choice of ability for this set defines its potential, and as such cannot be taken lightly. Regenerator is incredible for Ho-Oh, and it is far more commonly used because of its obvious utility; the boost it grants to Ho-Oh's survivability cannot be overstated, especially considering its nasty 4x Stealth Rock weakness. However, Pressure allows Ho-Oh to SubRoost stall various attacks with increased ease. This is only elevated in importance by the abundance of moves with low PP in Ubers. Generally, the preferred choice is Regenerator simply due to its ability to relieve Ho-Oh of some of the stress of its deadly Stealth Rock weakness; however, both abilities are entirely viable and the optimal one will vary depending on the team in question.</p>

    <p>Of special mention for this set is Toxic Spikes provided by the previously mentioned Forretress. Toxic Spikes, when combined with Substitute and Recover or Roost, can allow Ho-Oh to outstall many threats simply by spamming Substitute and Recover, while the hapless foes slowly lose their life to increasingly powerful Poison. For example, Ho-Oh can come in on something that it walls but is faster, such as Choice Scarf Palkia, and set up a Substitute as Palkia faints from the Toxic Spikes poison. From there, Ho-Oh can easily net another KO or two while safely behind its baby Rhydon doll.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Sweeper
    move 1: Flame Charge / Tailwind
    move 2: Sacred Fire
    move 3: Brave Bird
    move 4: Roost / Earthquake
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>In previous generations, one of Ho-Oh's biggest problems was its middling base 90 Speed. However, in BW, Ho-Oh can rectify this problem by using Flame Charge or Tailwind to boost its Speed to sky-high levels. Throw in sun to power up Ho-Oh's STAB Sacred Fire and you'll have one deadly sweeper on your hands.</p>

    <p>Choosing between Flame Charge and Tailwind is tough. Flame Charge's Speed boost will last until Ho-Oh switches out, and it also allows Ho-Oh to soften up the opponent's Ho-Oh check with a light smack before going on the offensive. However, Tailwind offers a significantly higher Speed boost. For example, Ho-Oh requires a Jolly Nature and 252 Speed EVs just to Speed tie with positive nature base 90 Speed Pokemon that have a Choice Scarf. However, after a single use of Tailwind, Ho-Oh can outrun Choice Scarf Terrakion while itself running a neutral Speed nature and only 172 Speed EVs. Tailwind also benefits the entire team; just in case Ho-Oh needs to switch out, a counter to your opponent's Ho-Oh check can step in and perform a mini-sweep on its own, using the boosted Speed granted by Tailwind. However, Tailwind only lasts 3 turns after being used, meaning that Ho-Oh's sweep may end prematurely.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire is the main attack Ho-Oh will be using, and, when backed by STAB and sunlight, outright OHKOes many Pokemon in the Uber tier such as Mewtwo, as well as at least 2HKOing anything that does not resist it. Brave Bird, Ho-Oh's other incredibly potent STAB move of choice, nails Kyogre, Reshiram, and Palkia for assured OHKOs after Stealth Rock damage. Brave Bird also provides Ho-Oh with a very strong sweeping attack outside of sun. Roost rounds out the set brilliantly to help Ho-Oh recover damage incurred from Stealth Rock and Life Orb, as well possibly allowing it to gain multiple Flame Charge boosts or to set up Tailwind repeatedly. Ho-Oh is also an excellent defensive Pokemon as well as an offensive one, and it can serve as a check to many threats such as Shaymin-S, Steel-types, Darkrai, most Calm Mind Arceus, and Reshiram. However, although Fire- and Flying-type STABs are a good combination, it will leave Ho-Oh walled by Zekrom, Heatran (it needs Toxic or Hidden Power Rock to beat Ho-Oh one on one, however), and Rock-type Pokemon. Earthquake solves this problem by OHKOing Zekrom after it takes damage from Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes, always OHKOing Heatran, and 2HKOing at worst any Rock-type Pokemon fit for Ubers play. However, without Roost, Ho-Oh will become extremely vulnerable to Stealth Rock, so solid Rapid Spin support will be necessary.</p>

    <p>The EVs are fairly simple. Maximum Attack is to hit as hard as possible, and the Speed EVs enable Ho-Oh to hit 418 Speed after a Flame Charge, which lets it outpace everything below Choice Scarf Heatran. If using Tailwind, it is best to run 172 Speed EVs, which will allow Ho-Oh to outspeed Choice Scarf Terrakion. Adamant is preferred because it affords Ho-Oh a large amount of much-needed power. However, Jolly allows Ho-Oh to outspeed Deoxys-A and tie with other Choice Scarf base 90 Speed Pokemon such as Dialga after a Flame Charge boost, and Jolly Max Speed Excadrill in the sand after a Tailwind.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set most appreciates sunlight, to boost the power of Ho-Oh's STAB Sacred Fire to astonishing levels, and Rapid Spin, to aid Ho-Oh in setting up by removing the crippling Stealth Rock from its side of the field. Groudon, with its great bulk and everlasting sunlight courtesy of Drought, fulfills Ho-Oh's sunlight needs perfectly, and can also set up Stealth Rock to help Ho-Oh nab some important OHKOs. Forretress's good defenses and many resistances allow it to fulfill the Rapid Spinning role perfectly as well, and it can even set up Spikes to facilitate Ho-Oh's sweep. One could also run a Magic Bouncer to keep hazards off the field, but Ho-Oh's lack of survivability (especially when not running Roost) is problematic when compounded by the prediction required to block Stealth Rock.</p>

    <p>The best counter to this set is Rock Arceus, as it packs resistances to both of Ho-Oh's STAB moves, is bulky enough to take an Earthquake, and can easily destroy Ho-Oh with one Judgment. Ho-Oh also isn't a fan of Kyogre or Zekrom, as the former disposes of Ho-Oh's beloved sunlight and the latter can handle one hit from Ho-Oh and OHKO it back with Bolt Strike. Rock-types also pose a problem if Ho-Oh lacks Earthquake, as due to Ho-Oh's 4X weakness to said type, any decently powerful Rock-type attack will bring it down. Thankfully, Groudon's bulk and very powerful STAB Earthquake make it an excellent counter to Zekrom and Rock-types, including Rock Arceus. Palkia can easily come in on Kyogre's powerful Water-type strikes and defeat it with Thunder. Grass Arceus is capable of checking pretty much all of Ho-Oh's counters, either crippling them with status or setting up on them with Calm Mind.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Punishment / Sleep Talk
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Scarf boosts Ho-Oh's meager Speed to a respectable 459, beating every non-scarfed Pokemon in Ubers except for Deoxys-S, allowing Ho-Oh to become a great revenge killer and late-game cleaner.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire, even without a Life Orb boost, is still a ridiculously powerful attack in the sunlight that will maim anything that does not resist it. Brave Bird is a very powerful secondary STAB that 2HKOes most Kyogre and Palkia. Earthquake covers things such as Zekrom, Terrakion, Heatran, and Tyranitar. However, using Earthquake is risky due to the sheer number of Flying-types and Levitators in the Uber environment, so exercise caution. Punishment is a failsafe against things such as Calm Mind Mewtwo, Calm Mind Giratina-O, and Calm Mind Arceus. As it increases in power as they gain Calm Mind boosts, Ho-Oh can easily use Punishment to save your team from utter ruin if the enemy Calm Mind user has acquired multiple boosts. Alternatively, one can use Sleep Talk to greatly increase its ability to counter Darkrai.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Once again, any teammate from the previous sets will work well with this one. However, due to this Ho-Oh's considerably lower power, defensive Kyogre is now able to wall it and Wobbuffet can trap it with Shadow Tag and Counter it to oblivion. Choice Band Zekrom is able to stomp all over Kyogre with its powerful STAB Bolt Strike, and can also weaken Wobbuffet to the point where it can no longer trap Ho-Oh. Mixed attackers such as Palkia and Dialga can bluff a Choice Scarf by holding an item such as Lustrous Orb or Expert Belt, lure Wobbuffet in and surprise it with an attack from the opposite side. Toxic Spikes from Forretress also badly mess up Wobbuffet.</p>

    <p>This Ho-Oh set has no recovery besides Regenerator, so Rapid Spin support from Forretress is a must. Wish support is also a good idea to keep as both an extra defense against Stealth Rock and to help Ho-Oh switch into resisted attacks. Jirachi is probably the best user of Wish in Ubers due to access to U-turn, great bulk, and numerous resistances, including a resistance to Rock-type attacks. Blissey is also notable as it can pass Wishes so enormous that they will often fully heal the rainbow phoenix.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Ho-Oh can utilize Reflect, Light Screen, and/or Toxic to become a very good staller with Pressure. A set carrying Sunny Day can also work, screwing up Kyogre switch-ins. Ho-Oh is also a good spreader of paralysis with Thunder Wave. It is very unlikely that Ground-type Pokemon such as Garchomp will switch into Ho-Oh due to the risk of getting burned by Sacred Fire. Safeguard can also be used to give Ho-Oh status protection. Finally, Ho-Oh can use Calm Mind or Choice Specs and run a decent special attacking set with its good base 110 Special Attack, but it's generally outclassed by Reshiram in that respect due to much higher Special Attack and STAB Dragon-type attacks.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ho-Oh has no true counter, as nothing can safely switch in on its devastating attacks. Only smart prediction and having the right combination of resistances will bring it down.</p>

    <p>That said, Rock Arceus is probably the closest thing Ho-Oh has to a true counter. It resists both Sacred Fire and Brave Bird, has the bulk to take multiple hits, and can OHKO Ho-Oh with a swift Judgment. However, Rock Arceus really hates switching in on Earthquake repeatedly. Zekrom also resists both of Ho-Oh's STABs and can easily fell it with Bolt Strike. However, Zekrom loathes burn and a Life Orb Earthquake will bring it to its knees. Kyogre is an issue for Ho-Oh because of Drizzle, which cancels out Ho-Oh's beloved sunlight, and a Surf from the giant blue sea titan will easily drown the rainbow phoenix. However, Kyogre can't really take a Brave Bird at all. Palkia is in the same boat as Kyogre, and even though it possesses STAB Water-type attacks, Ho-Oh actually walls Palkia in the sunlight unless it carries Power Gem. Giratina can soak up Ho-Oh's attacks somewhat comfortably, but cannot do much in return. Rayquaza also outspeeds Ho-Oh and can Outrage it into oblivion, but Rayquaza can only really come in on Earthquake. Anything faster than Ho-Oh, such as Choice Scarf Tyranitar, Garchomp, or Terrakion, can easily revenge kill it.</p>

    <p>The easiest way to keep Ho-Oh at bay is Stealth Rock. A Ho-Oh at 50% HP is much more palatable than one at full strength. Keeping a sturdy Ghost-type such as Giratina-O or Ghost Arceus is recommended to make sure Stealth Rock doesn't get removed by Rapid Spin as well.</p>
  2. Nexus

    Nexus Day 358: Believe
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  3. jackm

    jackm

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    Don't worry I implemented it.
  4. Hack

    Hack I BELIEVE IN TRANSPARENCY IN DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS
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    ctrl f > Xatu > 0 hits
    ctrl f > Espeon > 0 hits
    ctrl f > Magic Bounce > 0 hits

    No mention on what could make Ho-oh the most devastating and difficult Pokémon to switch into in the entire game is such a shame...

    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers11006235
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers10883917
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers9776600
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers9774504
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers7863672
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers11773915
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers11755260

    Here are some replays where I manage to keep SR away, and sure, some of my OPs aren't exactly good, but I lack good replays (because I have a habit of not saving any).

    I hope that it could at least be mentioned, that Magic Bounce, played with the correct team build, can aid Ho-oh incredibly well, much better than Rapid Spin can do in fact, as the incredibly bulky Ghost-types of the tier can easily spinblock any spinner. And yes, I know it might sound like Magic Bounce is prediction reliant, but it guarantees one condition, and with the right team build you can delay the setting of Stealth Rock for a period of time which converts into an advantage. Note that Magic Bounce mons aren't going to reflect Stealth Rock indefinitely, like a Chansey counters a Choice Scarfed Palkia indefinitely, but with the right offensive pressure put on the Stealth Rock setters, you will be able to keep Stealth Rock away for the most part.
  5. gookie

    gookie Administrator
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    sr setters are very powerful too, all are capable of 2HKOing sash espeon and mold breaker excadrill gets sr anyway. it's a prediction reliant strategy - _ -
  6. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    I guess it can't if we mention them, but there's no need to harp on about it, since the Magic Bounce Pokemon are all quite mediocre in their own right.
  7. Hack

    Hack I BELIEVE IN TRANSPARENCY IN DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS
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    I agree with both of you, but I find that a mention would be appropriate. And, yeah, you kinda need the right team build to delay SR setters, so it's of course a level of strategy that isn't someone new to the tier should attempt.
  8. Chirac

    Chirac

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    Forretress is still a good choice in Ubers to keep SR away. Additionnaly, Tank version of Groudon makes a big check for Excadrill and Tyranitar, which are pretty annoyings for both Forre and Ho-Oh.

    But, why the hell there is no mention of the Choice Band set?

    Ho-Oh @Choice Band
    Trait : Regenerator
    - Sacred Fire
    - Brave Bird
    - Earthquake
    - Sleep Talk
    Adamant | 80 HP, 252 Atk, 176 Spd

    Nothing can switch into this set. Kyogre 252HP/4Def is OHKO by Brave Bird after SR damages, the physically defensive one is easily 2hko. It also OHKO Palkia, which is one the first switch-in to take a Sacred Fire and threaten it with Surf/Hydropump.
    This makes a decent check to Ghost-ceus CM, since it's a safe OHKO under Sun with Sacred Fire.
    The Speed EVs are just put to outspeed Lugia without Speed evs (which is pretty uncommon, i know, but the speedy versions are easily 2hko by Sacred Fire, even with Multiscale) and Kabutops without Rain.
    Banded Ho-Oh doesn't really need Max Speed, because there is nothing between 259 and 279 Speed except Adamant Excadrill.
    The additionnal 80 EVs in HP allows it for example to survive 100% of time to Psystrike from LO Mewtwo.
  9. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    The CB set is being worked on seperately because it was created by someone else while the skeleton was underway. The same goes with the Physically Defensive set.
  10. Hack

    Hack I BELIEVE IN TRANSPARENCY IN DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS
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    It sounds like you have never even played the game. An experienced/good player will easily keep SR up against Forretress, making you unable to spin. Forretress is not a good choice against keeping SR away against teams with a bulky Ghost-type, however, it excels in setting up other hazards due to the forced switches into Ghost-types it creates. But the reality is that you will most likely get spinblocked to death, and that won't help Ho-oh's longevity much even though you manage to get some hazards down (even though Ho-oh could potentially take advantage of Toxic Spikes in conjunction with Substitute and Roost).

    As for Choice Band Ho-oh, the set was written here instead: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3479195
  11. Chirac

    Chirac

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    @Swamp-rocket : nvm i didn't seen it x)

    @Hack he must: Forretress with toxic/toxic spikes deals with giratina and ghost-ceus. And the lack of recovery for giratina-o (except the suffler version ofc, but it seems to be pretty uncommon, and especially played in stall-like teams) won't let him anti-spin many times.
    Believe me, man, this core is extremely effective, but ofc as usual in ubers it needs a little bit of well-playing. :)
  12. jackm

    jackm

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    In accordance with reccomendation from QC members, I'm not going to include Magic Bounce as of yet. Of course, if discussion tends in that direction I'll reconsider.
  13. trickroom

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    You do not need to include Magic Bounce until, that is proven to be somehow be more effective than last time. Poppy and shrang already said Magic Bounce is not good enough to be harp on, and you can just ignore any further posts about Magic Bounce.

    As for da hui's post, I think he is right because Forretress doesn't do a good job of spinning against all the ghosts, but he does important things besides spinning. Of course Forretress has no way of spinning when the opponent has their ghost alive, but use that time to setup Spikes, status the opponent's blocker or just use volt switch/Pain Split if you have it. Toxic cripples Ghost Arceus and even if you don't get to spin, you get to do something, and Forretress can check most Arceus formes lacking Fire-type attacks, the same Toxic puts any non-Rest Giratina-O on a timer and if you choose to use Payback, Substitute Giratina-O cannot beat you. What I see is, Hidden Power Fire is getting much rarer on Giratina-O and Arceus usually drops it for Focus Blast, this actually benefits Forretress as they longer threaten you with a move that can OHKO.

    Now, Spikes benefits Ho-Oh too, I am not talking about other things because this is a Ho-Oh analysis. Everyone know Ubers is hazards based and Forretress can setup any hazard you wish, hate that Giratina walling Ho-Oh? Setup Spikes and annoy it on switch ins, also the fact that Forretress is capable of tanking certain attacks such as Scarf Terrakion, ExtremeKiller Arceus, Outrages ( Ho-Oh does not enjoy all of those, yeah you have Groudon but having another wall helps ) makes it way more important than Espeon ( Not Xatu because I will assume you are talking about Espeon ). Xatu got approved last time because it can wall slow Support Groudon for quite some time, but Offensives ones and Dialga still blow past you, unless you have Light Screen. That and Xatu completely walls Gliscor, Lugia, Stalltwo with Psytrike included, Wallceus and every single spikes user.

    One more thing is not all Ubers team have a spin blockers, those who don't use Spikes, don't really need a Ghost because it takes just one turn to setup Stealth Rock, and Rapid Spin is a single turn, 100% accurate attack so when you have it that will help a lot.

    OK, Espeon can use Focus Sash and annoy those Groudons or whatever SR users, but that is prediction reliant, any mistake and Espeon will be nothing more than fodder. If you want to discuss about Magic Bounce, do it in the Ubers forum, not C & C please, as these magic bouncers are not worth it to be mentioned in Ho-Oh's analysis for the sake of delaying the use of Stealth Rock.
  14. alexwolf

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    I don't want to go in details, and i probably won't convince you, but i have seen some pretty good sun teams in the ladder using Espeon/Xatu, especially at the top. Whenever i was at the top 20 of the Ubers ladder, i always remember one or two guys there with a sun team that had Ho-Oh and a Magic Bouncer, and they were always very effective.

    You just have to use those mons in offensive teams, where preventing once or twice SR is all you need, as the opponent won't get more opoortunities to set it up anyway.
  15. jrp

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    Espeon is bad.

    It cannot switch into any of the common setters except for Deo-S without being instantly KO'd.

    At least in OU where forry is common it can get some leeway, but in a tier where Groudon is generally used as a SR setter... no.
  16. trickroom

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    Any of those any SR user, Tyranitar, Arceus, Groudon, Dialga and even Heatran will all 2HKO Espeon at worst. Tyranitar OHKOes you, and it is so prediction reliant to work well. You are not stopping Excadrill from setting it up too. Forretress is better because it does way more than just bounce back hazards. Winning the ladder is cool, I respect that but Espeon does not need a mention in Ho-Oh's analysis. Shrang and Poppy already posted their opinion as well and I believe that is true.

    Now can we stop his Espeon harping, it won't end here, if you do love Espeon so much, make a thread and post about it in Ubers metagame forum. Share those replays there not here please, also this is Ho-Oh's analysis, why talk so much about that Espeon here. Agreeing with jonathanrp
  17. tehy

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    So the thread says it's GP 0/2 and your post states it's ready for GP checks, shouldn't you change the tag to Copyediting? Otherwise it just gets confusing
  18. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    I did say feel free to put in a small mention of Espeon and Xatu though, but I'll leave that up to the OP.
  19. jackm

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    Alright, I'll make a small mention of the Bouncers.
  20. Chirac

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    It's okay. But which sets of Espeon and Xatu will work for this role? It really seems they are very frails in Ubers, especially Espeon...
  21. tehy

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    Pretty nice, Ho-Oh is a great 'mon

    Add blue remove red comments below

    Edit: I AM VERY DISAPPOINT. Seriously, what the hell.

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    [Overview]

    <p>Ho-Oh still holds its position as one of the top threats in the game. Its huge base 130 Attack, coupled with its powerful STAB options in Sacred Fire (which carries an impressive 50% burn rate) and Brave Bird, Ho-Oh can easily put serious hurt on anything that dares to stand up to it. Ho-Oh's amazing 106 base HP, 90 base Defense, and 154 base Special Defense in conjunction with reliable recovery mean that the rainbow phoenix will be very hard to take down; Regenerator only augments this survivability, allowing Ho-Oh to function as a bulky pivot. Ho-Oh also received a great new toy in the form of Flame Charge, which remedies its middling Speed and turns it from just a powerful attacker into a dangerous sweeper. Unfortunately, Stealth Rock will continue to be Ho-Oh's biggest weakness even with access to Regenerator, as the rainbow bird despises losing 50% of its HP on every switch-in. Nevertheless, Ho-Oh remains a top tier threat that can incinerate even the toughest of teams with ease.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Substitute / Earthquake / Whirlwind
    move 4: Recover
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Regenerator / Pressure
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 176 Atk / 84 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This Ho-Oh set takes advantage of its incredible defenses to take hits and dish out even more painful ones. This Ho-Oh, in particular, serves as a great defensive counter for a lot of threats, such as most Calm Mind variants of Arceus, Darkrai, any Steel-type, Shaymin-S, Heatran, Palkia, Reshiram, Dialga, and much more.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire and Brave Bird are the main attacks, the former doing tremendous damage to anything that doesn't resist it and spreading burns to help make up for Ho-Oh's below-average Defense, and the latter annihilating Kyogre, Palkia, and Reshiram. Recover is chosen over Roost as the recovery option in this case. Ho-Oh is not running much Speed at all with this set, and, therefore, it will usually not be able to take advantage of the temporary Electric-type neutrality that Roost brings. Instead, Recover is better so Ho-Oh will always have its immunity to Ground-type attacks. However, Roost still does have some merit in allowing Ho-Oh to stall out a burned Groudon's Stone Edge, so long as Groudon is slower than Ho-Oh. Substitute affords Ho-Oh status protection and gives it a way to strike at its checks without having to predict them switching in. Combined with Recover and Pressure, Ho-Oh can use Substitute to quite easily stall out the PP of dangerous moves such as Kyogre's Water Spout. Earthquake is an option as it rounds out the coverage superbly, 2HKOing all forms of Zekrom (and OHKOing offensive variants after taking damage from Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes) and denting Rock Arceus nicely, as well as always OHKOing Heatran. I, but has far more merit withen a Life Orb is being used by Ho-Oh. Whirlwind allows Ho-Oh to become a great phazer, spreading passive damage around like wildfire while easily shrugging off damage with its excellent bulk and Recover.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread gives Ho-Oh a decent amount of power, while still retaining its high special bulk. +4 Timid Life Orb Darkrai will not OHKO this Ho-Oh, Choice Scarf Palkia only has a 3.13% to 2HKO with Thunder, and 252+ Dialga's Draco Meteor will top at only 51.56%. The rare yet threatening Flying Arceus will, and so long as Ho-Oh has Leftovers, it is never 2HKO Ho-Oh with a'd by +1 Judgment thanks to LeftoverFlying Arceus. A Life Orb can be used over Leftovers, which tradesing longevity for power: the item allows important OHKOs and 2HKOs that Ho-Oh cannot achieve with Leftovers, such as almost guaranteeing the OHKO on Choice Scarf Kyogre with Brave Bird after Stealth Rock damage.</p>

    <p>Ho-Oh's favorite teammates are Groudon and a Rapid Spinner or Magic Bouncer; the former pumps up the power of Sacred Fire, while the latter keeps Stealth Rock from crippling Ho-Oh. It's important to note, however, that a Magic Bouncer will struggle to prevent Stealth Rock from going up against an offensive team. This set also really appreciates paralysis support to make up for its low Speed. Grass Arceus can easily deter Ground-types from switching in thanks to its typing, allowing it to easily slow down a large chunk of the enemy team with Thunder Wave. Dialga, Groudon, Lugia, and Zekrom, Jirachi, and Blissey can all also spread paralysis very effectively. Lots of entry hazards of any kind are also recommended if using Whirlwind. Forretress can set up all three entry hazards, and Ho-Oh can easily come in on Fire-type attacks aimed at Forretress and begin to Whirlwind away.</p>

    <p>The choice of ability for this set defines its potential, and as such cannot be taken lightly. Regenerator is incredible for Ho-Oh, and it is far more commonly used because of its obvious utility; the boost it grants to Ho-Oh's survivability cannot be overstated, especially considering its nasty 4x Stealth Rock weakness. However, Pressure allows Ho-Oh to SubRoost stall various attacks with increased ease. This is only elevated in importance by the abundance of moves with low PP in Ubers. Generally, the preferred choice is Regenerator simply due to its ability to relieve Ho-Oh of some of the stress of its deadly Stealth Rock weakness; however, both abilities are entirely viable and the optimal one will vary depending on the team in question.</p>

    <p>Of special mention for this set is Toxic Spikes provided by the previously mentioned Forretress. Toxic Spikes, when combined with Substitute and Recover or Roost, can allow Ho-Oh to outstall many threats simply by spamming Substitute and Recover, while the hapless foes slowly lose their life to increasingly powerful Poison. For example, Ho-Oh can come in on something that it walls but is faster, such as Choice Scarf Palkia, and set up a Substitute as Palkia faints from the Toxic Spikes poison. From there, Ho-Oh can easily net another KO or two while safely behind its baby Rhydon doll.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Sweeper
    move 1: Flame Charge / Tailwind
    move 2: Sacred Fire
    move 3: Brave Bird
    move 4: Roost / Earthquake
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>In previous generations, one of Ho-Oh's biggest problems was its middling base 90 Speed. However, in BW, Ho-Oh can rectify this problem by using Flame Charge or the improved Tailwind to boost its Speed to sky-high levels. Throw in sunlight support to power up Ho-Oh's STAB Sacred Fire and you'll have one deadly sweeper on your hands.</p>

    <p>Choosing between Flame Charge and Tailwind is tough. Flame Charge's Speed boost will last until Ho-Oh switches out, and it also allows Ho-Oh to soften up the opponent's Ho-Oh check with a light smack before going on the offensive. However, Tailwind offers a significantly higher Speed boost. For example, Ho-Oh requires a Jolly Nature and 252 Speed EVs just to Speed tie with positive nature base 90 Speed Pokemon that have a Choice Scarf. However, Ho-Oh, after a single use of Tailwind, Ho-Oh can outrun max Speed base 108 Pokemon equipped with Choice Scarf Terrakion while itself running a neutral Speed nature and only 172 Speed EVs. Tailwind also benefits the entire team; just in case Ho-Oh needs to switch out, a counter to your opponent's Ho-Oh check can step in and perform a mini-sweep on its own, using the boosted Speed granted by Tailwind. However, Tailwind only lasts 3 turns after being used, meaning that Ho-Oh's sweep may end prematurely.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire is the main attack Ho-Oh will be using, and, when backed by STAB and sunlight, it outright OHKOes many Pokemon in the Uber tier such as Mewtwo, as well as at least 2HKOing anything that does not resist it. Brave Bird, Ho-Oh's other incredibly potent STAB move of choice, nails Kyogre, Reshiram, and Palkia for assured OHKOs after Stealth Rock damage. Brave Bird also provides Ho-Oh with a very strong sweeping attack in case the weather is not in its favoroutside of sun. Roost rounds out the set brilliantly to help Ho-Oh recover damage incurred from Stealth Rock and Life Orb, as well possibly allowing it to gain multiple Flame Charge boosts or to set up Tailwind repeatedly. Ho-Oh is also an excellent defensive Pokemon as well as an offensive one, and it can serve as a check to many threats such as Shaymin-S, Steel-types, Darkrai, most Calm Mind variants of Arceus, and Reshiram. However, although Fire- and Flying-type STABs are a good combination, it will leave Ho-Oh walled by Zekrom, Heatran (it needs Toxic or Hidden Power Rock to beat Ho-Oh one on one, however), and Rock-type Pokemon. Earthquake solves this problem by OHKOing Zekrom after it takes damage from Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes, always OHKOing Heatran, and 2HKOing at worst any Rock-type Pokemon not named Solrock, Lunatone, or Aerodactyl, all Pokemon unfit for Ubers play. However, without Roost, Ho-Oh will become extremely vulnerable to Stealth Rock, so solid Rapid Spin support will be necessary.</p>

    <p>The EVs are fairly simple. Maximum Attack is wanted to hit as hard as possible, and the Speed EVs enable Ho-Oh to hit 418 Speed after a Flame Charge, which lets it outpace everything below Choice Scarf Heatran. If using Tailwind, it is best to run 172 Speed EVs, which will allow Ho-Oh to outspeed Choice Scarf Terrakion. Adamant is preferred because it affords Ho-Oh a large amount of much-needed power. However, Jolly allows Ho-Oh to outspeed Deoxys-A and tie with other Choice Scarf base 90 Speed Pokemon such as Dialga after a Flame Charge boost, and Jolly Max Speed Excadrill in the sand after a Tailwind.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set most appreciates sunlight, to boost the power of Ho-Oh's STAB Sacred Fire to astonishing levels, and Rapid Spin, to aid Ho-Oh in setting up by removing the crippling Stealth Rock from its side of the field. Groudon, with its great bulk and everlasting sunlight courtesy of Drought, fulfills Ho-Oh's sunlight needs perfectly. Groudon, and can also set up Stealth Rock to help Ho-Oh nab some important OHKOs. Forretress's good defenses and many resistances allow it to fulfill the Rapid Spinning role perfectly as well, and it can even set up Spikes to facilitate Ho-Oh's sweep. One could also run a Magic Bouncer to keep hazards off the field, but Ho-Oh's lack of survivability (especially when not running Roost) is problematic when compounded by the prediction required to block Stealth Rock.</p>

    <p>The best counter to this set is Rock Arceus, as it packs resistances to both of Ho-Oh's STAB moves, is bulky enough to take an Earthquake, and can easily destroy Ho-Oh with one Judgment. Ho-Oh also isn't a fan of Kyogre andor Zekrom, as the formers disposes of Ho-Oh's beloved sunlight and the latter can handle one hit from Ho-Oh and OHKO it back with Bolt Strike. Rock-types also pose a problem if Ho-Oh lacks Earthquake, as due to Ho-Oh's 4X weakness to said type, any decently powerful Rock-type attack will bring it down. Thankfully, Groudon's bulk and very powerful STAB Earthquake make it an excellent counter to Zekrom and Rock-types, including Rock Arceus. Palkia can easily come in on Kyogre's powerful Water-type strikes and defeat it with Thunder. Grass Arceus is capable of checking pretty much all of Ho-Oh's counters, either crippling them with status or setting up on them with Calm Mind.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Punishment / Sleep Talk
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Scarf patcheboosts up Ho-Oh's meager Speed to a respectable 459, beating every non-scarfed Pokemon in Ubers except for Deoxys-S that does not hold Choice Scarf, allowing Ho-Oh to become a great revenge killer and late-game cleaner.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire, even without a Life Orb boost, is still a ridiculously powerful attack in the sunlight that will maim anything that does not resist it. Brave Bird also stands ais a very powerful secondary STAB that 2HKOes most types of Kyogre and Palkia. Earthquake is there to covers things such as Zekrom, Terrakion, Heatran, and Tyranitar. However, using Earthquake is risky due to the sheer number of Flying-types and Levitators in the Uber environment, so exercise caution before going ahead with the attack. Punishment is a useful little tool that serves as a failsafe against things such as Calm Mind Mewtwo, Calm Mind Giratina-O, and Calm Mind Arceus. As it increases in power as they gain Calm Mind boosts, Ho-Oh can easily use Punishment to save your team from utter ruin if the enemy Calm Mind user has acquired multiple boosts. Alternatively, one can use Sleep Talk to greatly increase its ability to counter Darkrai.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Once again, any teammate from the previous sets will also work well with this one. However, due to this Ho-Oh's considerably lower power, defensive Kyogre is now able to wall it and Wobbuffet can trap it with Shadow Tag and Counter it to oblivion. Choice Band Zekrom is able to stomp all over Kyogre with its powerful STAB Bolt Strike, and can also weaken Wobbuffet to the point where it can no longer trap Ho-Oh. Mixed attackers such as Palkia and Dialga can bluff a Choice Scarf by holding an item such as Lustrous Orb or Expert Belt to, lure Wobbuffet in. As it Counters or Mirror Coats, expecting a physical or special attack, Wobbuffet will quickly find itself beingnd surprise it wiped off the face of the planet from an attack onfrom the opposite side. Toxic Spikes from Forretress also badly mess up Wobbuffet.</p>

    <p>This Ho-Oh set has no recovery besides Regenerator, so Rapid Spin support from Forretress is a must. Using Wish support is also a good idea to keep as both an extra defense against Stealth Rock and to help Ho-Oh switch into resisted attacks. Jirachi is probably the best user of Wish in Ubers due to access to U-turn, great bulk, and numerous resistances, including a resistance to Rock-type attacks. Blissey is also notable as it can pass Wishes so enormous that they will often fully heal the rainbow phoenix.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Ho-Oh can utilize Reflect, Light Screen, and/or Toxic to become a very good staller with Pressure. A set carrying Sunny Day can also work, screwing up Kyogre switch-ins. Ho-Oh is also a good spreader of paralysis with Thunder Wave. It is very unlikely that Ground-type Pokemon such as Garchomp will switch into Ho-Oh due to the risk of getting burned by Sacred Fire. Safeguard can also be used to give Ho-Oh status protection. Finally, Ho-Oh can use Calm Mind or Choice Specs and run a decent special attacking set with its good base 110 Special Attack, but it's generally outclassed by Reshiram in that respect due to much higher Special Attack and STAB Dragon-type attacks.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ho-Oh has no true counter, as nothing can safely switch in on its devastating attacks. Only smart prediction and having the right combination of resistances will bring it down.</p>

    <p>That said, Rock Arceus is probably the closest thing Ho-Oh has to a true counter. It resists both Sacred Fire and Brave Bird, has the bulk to take multiple hits, and can OHKO Ho-Oh with a swift Judgment. However, Rock Arceus really hates switching in on Earthquake repeatedly. Zekrom also resists both of Ho-Oh's STABs and can easily fell it with Bolt Strike. However, Zekrom loathes a possible burn and a Life Orb Earthquake will bring it to its knees. Kyogre is an issue for Ho-Oh because of Drizzle, which cancels out Ho-Oh's beloved sunlight, and a Surf from the giant blue sea titan will easily drown the rainbow phoenix. However, Kyogre can't really take a Brave Bird at all. Palkia is in the same boat as Kyogre, and even though it possesses STAB Water-type attacks, Ho-Oh actually walls Palkia in the sunlight unless it carries Power Gem. Giratina can soak up Ho-Oh's attacks somewhat comfortably, but cannot do much in return with Dragon Tail. Rayquaza also outspeeds Ho-Oh and can Outrage it into oblivion, but Rayquaza can only really come in on Earthquake. Anything faster than Ho-Oh, such as Choice Scarf Tyranitar, Garchomp, or Terrakion, can easily revenge kill it.</p>

    <p>The easiest way to keep Ho-Oh at bay is Stealth Rock. A Ho-Oh at 50% HP is much more palatable than one at full strength. Keeping a sturdy Ghost-type such as Giratina-O or Ghost Arceus is recommended to make sure Stealth Rock doesn't get removed by Rapid Spin as well.</p>

    Comments;
    Also Tank Ho-oh Can't take advantage of the only 2X rock weak. Maybe just say "Removal of the flying-typing" or such?
    I wasn't sure if the thing about Tank Ho-oh's EQ being better on an LO set should be a BUT. Seems that way though
    Instead of saying Flyceus can't 2HKO, why not just say neutrally hitting Arceus formes can't? Ghost and Dark are pretty common, and there's even stuff like Dragon, Ice... And of course Psychic and Poison, not that it should matter.
    If it's important to note that offensive teams can still rock up on a Magic Bouncer, isn't it important to note that Forry can be spinblocked almost indefinitely?
    How can Zekrom spread para effectively? Its main switch-ins are ground-types (Or Ferro which Ho-Oh doesn't need para'd), and it's kind of frail for it. I guess it CAN but it's not great at it or anything.
    Is anyone running any other base 108 Choice Scarfers in Ubers? Maybe Keldeo but even then I'm pretty sure that's rare
    YOu kind of repeat the Flame Charge V. Tailwind thing in the Evs. Maybe find a way around this?
    You can't patch up its speed TO something, for Scarfer.
    In the scarf section I'd replace Terrakion with Rockceus as what EQ covers, BB hits him hard enough already that EQ isn't covering him, just helpful for him (Although then you're locked into a move with many immunities, no fun for anyone)
    Anything faster than Ho-Oh can easily revenge it? Seriously?
  22. jackm

    jackm

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    392
    Implemented the above check.
  23. Oglemi

    Oglemi THE DREAM IS REAL
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    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Ho-Oh still holds its position as one of the top threats in the game. Its huge base 130 Attack, coupled with its powerful STAB options in Sacred Fire (which carries an impressive 50% burn rate) and Brave Bird, Ho-Oh can easily put serious hurt on anything that dares to stand up to it. Ho-Oh's amazing 106 base HP, 90 base Defense, and 154 base Special Defense in conjunction with reliable recovery mean that the rainbow phoenix will be very hard to take down; Regenerator only augments this survivability, allowing Ho-Oh to function as a bulky pivot. Ho-Oh also received a great new toy in the form of Flame Charge, which remedies its middling Speed and turns it from just a powerful attacker into a dangerous sweeper. Unfortunately, Stealth Rock will continue to be Ho-Oh's biggest weakness even with access to Regenerator, as the rainbow bird despises losing 50% of its HP on every switch-in. Nevertheless, Ho-Oh remains a top-tier threat that can incinerate even the toughest of teams with ease.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Substitute / Earthquake / Whirlwind
    move 4: Recover
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Regenerator / Pressure
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 176 Atk / 84 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This Ho-Oh set takes advantage of its incredible defenses to take hits and dish out even more painful ones. This set in particular serves as a great defensive counter for a lot of threats, notably most Calm Mind Arceus, Darkrai, any Steel-type, Shaymin-S, Heatran, Palkia, Reshiram, Dialga, and much more.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire and Brave Bird are the main attacks, the former doing tremendous damage to anything that doesn't resist it and spreading burns to help make up for Ho-Oh's below-average Defense, and the latter annihilating Kyogre, Palkia, and Reshiram. Recover is chosen over Roost as Ho-Oh is not running much Speed at all with this set, and, therefore, will usually not be able to take advantage of the temporary Electric-type neutrality that Roost brings. Recover is better so Ho-Oh will always have its immunity to Ground-type attacks. However, Roost does allow Ho-Oh to stall out a burned Groudon's Stone Edge, so long as Groudon is slower than Ho-Oh. Substitute affords Ho-Oh status protection and gives it a way to strike at its checks without having to predict them switching in. Combined with Recover and Pressure, Ho-Oh can use Substitute to quite easily stall out the PP of dangerous moves such as Kyogre's Water Spout. Earthquake is an option as it rounds out the coverage superbly, 2HKOing all forms of Zekrom (and OHKOing offensive variants after taking damage from Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes) and denting Rock Arceus nicely, as well as always OHKOing Heatran, but it has far more merit with a Life Orb. Whirlwind allows Ho-Oh to become a great phazer, spreading passive damage around like wildfire while easily shrugging off damage with its excellent bulk and Recover.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread gives Ho-Oh a decent amount of power, while still retaining its high special bulk. +4 Timid Life Orb Darkrai will not OHKO this Ho-Oh, Choice Scarf Palkia only has a 3.13% to 2HKO with Thunder, 252+ Dialga's Draco Meteor will top out at only 51.56%, and so long as Ho-Oh has Leftovers, it is never 2HKOed by +1 neutral Arceus&mdash;that is, as long as Arceus does not have a super effective STAB against Ho-Oh. A Life Orb can be used over Leftovers, trading longevity for power: the item gives Ho-Oh important OHKOs and 2HKOs that it cannot achieve with Leftovers, such as almost guaranteeing the OHKO on Choice Scarf Kyogre with Brave Bird after Stealth Rock damage.</p>

    <p>Ho-Oh's favorite teammates are Groudon and a Rapid Spin user or a Pokemon with the ability Magic Bounce; the former pumps up the power of Sacred Fire, while the latter keeps Stealth Rock from crippling Ho-Oh. It's important to note, however, that a Magic Bounce user will struggle to prevent Stealth Rock from going up against an offensive team. This set also really appreciates paralysis support to make up for its low Speed. Grass Arceus can easily deter Ground-types from switching in thanks to its typing, allowing it to easily slow down a large chunk of the enemy team with Thunder Wave. Dialga, Groudon, Lugia, Zekrom, Jirachi, and Blissey can all also spread paralysis very effectively. Lots of entry hazards of any kind are also recommended if using Whirlwind. Forretress can set up all three entry hazards, and Ho-Oh can easily come in on Fire-type attacks aimed at Forretress and begin to Whirlwind away.</p>

    <p>The choice of ability for this set defines its potential, and as such cannot be taken lightly. Regenerator is incredible for Ho-Oh, and it is far more commonly used because of its obvious utility; the boost it grants to Ho-Oh's survivability cannot be overstated, especially considering its nasty 4x Stealth Rock weakness. However, Pressure allows Ho-Oh to SubRoost stall various attacks with increased ease. This is only elevated in importance by the abundance of moves with low PP in Ubers. Generally, the preferred choice is Regenerator simply due to its ability to relieve Ho-Oh of some of the stress of its deadly Stealth Rock weakness; however, both abilities are entirely viable and the optimal one will vary depending on the team in question.</p>

    <p>Of special mention for this set is Toxic Spikes provided by the previously mentioned Forretress. Toxic Spikes, when combined with Substitute and Recover or Roost, can allow Ho-Oh to outstall many threats simply by spamming Substitute and Recover, while the hapless foes slowly lose their life to increasingly powerful poison. For example, Ho-Oh can come in on something that it walls but is faster, such as Choice Scarf Palkia, and set up a Substitute as Palkia faints from the Toxic Spikes poison. From there, Ho-Oh can easily net another KO or two while safely behind its baby Rhydon doll.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Sweeper
    move 1: Flame Charge / Tailwind
    move 2: Sacred Fire
    move 3: Brave Bird
    move 4: Roost / Earthquake
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>In previous generations, one of Ho-Oh's biggest problems was its middling base 90 Speed. However, in BW, Ho-Oh can rectify this problem by using Flame Charge or Tailwind to boost its Speed to sky-high levels. Throw in sun to power up Ho-Oh's STAB Sacred Fire and you'll have one deadly sweeper on your hands.</p>

    <p>Choosing between Flame Charge and Tailwind is tough. Flame Charge's Speed boost will last until Ho-Oh switches out, and it also allows Ho-Oh to soften up the opponent's Ho-Oh check with a light smack before going on the offensive. However, Tailwind offers a significantly higher Speed boost. For example, Ho-Oh requires a Jolly Nature and 252 Speed EVs just to Speed tie with positive natured base 90 Speed Pokemon that have a Choice Scarf. However, after a single use of Tailwind, Ho-Oh can outrun Choice Scarf Terrakion while itself running a using a neutral Speed nature and only 172 Speed EVs. Tailwind also benefits the entire team; just in case Ho-Oh needs to switch out, a counter to your opponent's Ho-Oh check can step in and perform a mini-sweep on its own, using the boosted Speed granted by Tailwind. However, Tailwind only lasts 3 turns after being used, meaning that Ho-Oh's sweep may end prematurely.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire is the main attack Ho-Oh will be using, and, when backed by STAB and sunlight, outright OHKOes many Pokemon in the Uber tier such as Mewtwo, as well as at least 2HKOing anything that does not resist it. Brave Bird, Ho-Oh's other incredibly potent STAB move of choice, nails Kyogre, Reshiram, and Palkia for assured OHKOs after Stealth Rock damage. Brave Bird also provides Ho-Oh with a very strong sweeping attack outside of sun. Roost rounds out the set brilliantly to help Ho-Oh recover damage incurred from Stealth Rock and Life Orb, as well as possibly allowing it to gain multiple Flame Charge boosts or to set up Tailwind repeatedly. Ho-Oh is also an excellent defensive Pokemon as well as an offensive one, and it can serve as a check to many threats such as Shaymin-S, Steel-types, Darkrai, most Calm Mind Arceus, and Reshiram. However, although Fire- and Flying-type STABs are a good combination, it will leave Ho-Oh walled by Zekrom, Heatran (it needs Toxic or Hidden Power Rock to beat Ho-Oh one-on-one, however), and Rock-type Pokemon. Earthquake solves this problem by OHKOing Zekrom after it takes damage from Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes, always OHKOing Heatran, and 2HKOing at worst any Rock-type Pokemon fit for Ubers play. However, without Roost, Ho-Oh will become extremely vulnerable to Stealth Rock, so solid Rapid Spin support will be necessary.</p>

    <p>The EVs are fairly simple. Maximum Attack is to hit as hard as possible, and the Speed EVs enable Ho-Oh to hit 418 Speed after a Flame Charge, which lets it outpace everything below Choice Scarf Heatran. If using Tailwind, it is best to run 172 Speed EVs, which will allow Ho-Oh to outspeed Choice Scarf Terrakion. Adamant is preferred because it affords Ho-Oh a large amount of much-needed power. However, Jolly allows Ho-Oh to outspeed Deoxys-A and tie with other Choice Scarf base 90 Speed Pokemon such as Dialga after a Flame Charge boost, and Jolly max Speed Excadrill in the sand after a Tailwind.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>This set most appreciates sunlight to boost the power of Ho-Oh's STAB Sacred Fire to astonishing levels, and Rapid Spin to aid Ho-Oh in setting up by removing the crippling Stealth Rock from its side of the field. Groudon, with its great bulk and everlasting sunlight courtesy of Drought, fulfills Ho-Oh's sunlight needs perfectly, and can also set up Stealth Rock to help Ho-Oh nab some important OHKOs. Forretress's good defenses and many resistances allow it to fulfill the Rapid Spinning role perfectly as well, and it can even set up Spikes to facilitate Ho-Oh's sweep. One could also run a Magic Bounce user to keep hazards off the field, but Ho-Oh's lack of survivability (especially when not running Roost) is problematic when compounded by the prediction required to block Stealth Rock.</p>

    <p>The best counter to this set is Rock Arceus, as it packs resistances to both of Ho-Oh's STAB moves, is bulky enough to take an Earthquake, and can easily destroy Ho-Oh with one Judgment. Ho-Oh also isn't a fan of Kyogre or Zekrom, as the former disposes of Ho-Oh's beloved sunlight and the latter can handle one hit from Ho-Oh and OHKO it back with Bolt Strike. Rock-types also pose a problem if Ho-Oh lacks Earthquake, since due to Ho-Oh's 4X weakness to said type, any decently powerful Rock-type attack will bring it down. Thankfully, Groudon's bulk and very powerful STAB Earthquake make it an excellent counter to Zekrom and Rock-types, including Rock Arceus. Palkia can easily come in on Kyogre's powerful Water-type strikes and defeat it with Thunder. Grass Arceus is capable of checking pretty much all of Ho-Oh's counters, either crippling them with status or setting up on them with Calm Mind.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Punishment / Sleep Talk
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Scarf boosts Ho-Oh's meager Speed to a respectable 459, beating every non-Scarf Pokemon in Ubers except for Deoxys-S, allowing Ho-Oh to become a great revenge killer and late-game cleaner.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire, even without a Life Orb boost, is still a ridiculously powerful attack in the sunlight that will maim anything that does not resist it. Brave Bird is a very powerful secondary STAB that 2HKOes most Kyogre and Palkia. Earthquake covers things such as Pokemon like Zekrom, Terrakion, Heatran, and Tyranitar. However, using Earthquake is risky due to the sheer number of Flying-types and Pokemon with Levitate in the Uber environment, so exercise caution. Punishment is a failsafe against threats such as Calm Mind Mewtwo, Calm Mind Giratina-O, and Calm Mind Arceus. Since it increases in power as they gain Calm Mind boosts, Ho-Oh can easily use Punishment to save your team from utter ruin if the enemy Calm Mind user has acquired multiple boosts. Alternatively, one can use Sleep Talk to greatly increase Ho-Oh's ability to counter Darkrai.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Once again, any teammate from the previous sets will work well with this one. However, Due to this Ho-Oh's considerably lower power, defensive Kyogre is now able to wall it and Wobbuffet can trap it with Shadow Tag and Counter it to oblivion. Choice Band Zekrom is able to stomp all over Kyogre with its powerful STAB Bolt Strike, and can also weaken Wobbuffet to the point where it can no longer trap Ho-Oh. Mixed attackers such as Palkia and Dialga can bluff a Choice Scarf by holding an item such as Lustrous Orb or Expert Belt, lure Wobbuffet in, and surprise it with an attack from the opposite side. Toxic Spikes from Forretress also badly mess up Wobbuffet.</p>

    <p>This Ho-Oh set has no recovery besides Regenerator, so Rapid Spin support from Forretress is a must. Wish support is also a good idea to keep in mind as both an extra defense against Stealth Rock and to help Ho-Oh switch into resisted attacks. Jirachi is probably the best user of Wish in Ubers due to its access to U-turn, great bulk, and numerous resistances, including a resistance to Rock-type attacks. Blissey is also notable as it can pass Wishes so enormous that they will often fully heal the rainbow phoenix.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Ho-Oh can utilize Reflect, Light Screen, and/or Toxic to become a very good staller with Pressure. A set carrying Sunny Day can also work, screwing up Kyogre switch-ins. Ho-Oh is also a good spreader of paralysis with Thunder Wave. It is very unlikely that Ground-type Pokemon such as Garchomp will switch into Ho-Oh due to the risk of getting burned by Sacred Fire. Safeguard can also be used to give Ho-Oh status protection. Finally, Ho-Oh can use Calm Mind or Choice Specs and run a decent special attacking set with its good base 110 Special Attack, but it's generally outclassed by Reshiram in that respect due to its much higher Special Attack and STAB Dragon-type attacks.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ho-Oh has no true counter, as nothing can safely switch in on its devastating attacks. Only smart prediction and having the right combination of resistances will bring it down.</p>

    <p>That said, Rock Arceus is probably the closest thing Ho-Oh has to a true counter. It resists both Sacred Fire and Brave Bird, has the bulk to take multiple hits, and can OHKO Ho-Oh with a swift Judgment. However, Rock Arceus really hates switching in on Earthquake repeatedly. Zekrom also resists both of Ho-Oh's STABs and can easily fell it with Bolt Strike. However, Zekrom loathes burn and a Life Orb Earthquake will bring it to its knees. Kyogre is an issue for Ho-Oh because of Drizzle, which cancels out Ho-Oh's beloved sunlight, and a Surf from the giant blue sea titan will easily drown the rainbow phoenix. However, Kyogre can't really take a Brave Bird at all. Palkia is in the same boat as Kyogre, and even though it possesses STAB Water-type attacks, Ho-Oh actually walls Palkia in the sunlight unless it carries Power Gem. Giratina can soak up Ho-Oh's attacks somewhat comfortably, but cannot do much in return. Rayquaza also outspeeds Ho-Oh and can Outrage it into oblivion, but Rayquaza can only really come in on Earthquake. Anything faster than Ho-Oh, such as Choice Scarf Tyranitar, Garchomp, or Terrakion, can easily revenge kill it.</p>

    <p>The easiest way to keep Ho-Oh at bay is Stealth Rock. A Ho-Oh at 50% HP is much more palatable than one at full strength. Keeping a sturdy Ghost-type such as Giratina-O or Ghost Arceus is recommended to make sure Stealth Rock doesn't get removed by Rapid Spin as well.</p>


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  24. Oglemi

    Oglemi THE DREAM IS REAL
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    ugh this is super disappointing but this is literally just c/p'd from the analysis onsite

    and i spent all that time GPing it today too >.>

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