1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Ho-Oh revamp (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by trickroom, Mar 26, 2013.

  1. trickroom

    trickroom
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,000
    [Overview]

    <p>With a huge base 130 Attack and powerful STAB options in Sacred Fire (which carries an impressive 50% burn rate) and Brave Bird, Ho-Oh can easily put serious hurt on anything that dares to stand up to it. Regenerator increases Ho-Oh's durability, allowing Ho-Oh to function as a bulky pivot. Ho-Oh can even amp up its middling Speed with Flame Charge, potentially sweeping an entire weakened team with its immensely powerful STABs. Ho-Oh is one of the most dangerous sun based Pokemon in the game; even in rain, Ho-Oh still has a powerful Brave Bird to throw around, a move not even Kyogre will enjoy taking. Ho-Oh is not restricted to a specific weather archetype because it counters certain threats such as Fighting Arceus, Ghost Arceus, and sun teams, which often find themselves completely walled by Ho-Oh. 154 base Special Defense with 106 base HP gives Ho-Oh great special bulk and, when combined with Ho-Oh's good offenses and Sacred Fire's great burn chance, makes it an amazing offensive tank that has equal special bulk to Great Wall Lugia! Even with a crippling weakness to the common Stealth Rock, Ho-Oh's amazing qualities allow it to thrive in the hostile Uber metagame due to its combination of power and bulk. Unfortunately, Stealth Rock will continue to be Ho-Oh's biggest weakness even with access to Regenerator, as the rainbow bird despises losing 50% of its HP on every switch.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Substitute / Earthquake
    move 4: Roost
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 176 Atk / 84 SpD

    <p>This Ho-Oh set shrugs off most non-super effective hits while replying with powerful attacks of its own. Unlike most walls, Ho-Oh packs a lot of power, so it can KO the opponent outright instead of relying on status or phazing moves. Thanks to Ho-Oh's great stat layout, it can wall most special attackers with just 248 HP EVs; most Calm Mind Arceus that lack a super effective attack to hit Ho-Oh with have little hope of breaking past it. This set also checks many other notable threats, such as Darkrai, Shaymin-S, Palkia, Reshiram, Latias, Genesect, Dialga, and Tornadus-T.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire and Brave Bird are the main attacks. Sacred Fire's solid burn rate deters switch-ins from the likes of Rayquaza and other powerful physical attackers hoping to take out Ho-Oh. Brave Bird is a powerful STAB move that can be easily thrown around in a tier where few common Pokemon resist Flying-type attacks, easily annihilating Kyogre, Palkia, and Reshiram. Roost lets Ho-Oh stall out defensive Groudon's Stone Edge, which becomes even easier when Groudon is burned with Sacred Fire. Although Roost makes Ho-Oh vulnerable to Earthquake, most users of the move are faster than Ho-Oh anyway, and Stone Edge from Groudon will still do more damage to a non-Roosting Ho-Oh than Earthquake to a Roosting one. Substitute gives Ho-Oh status protection and eases prediction; it can be set up easily because Ho-Oh frequently finds free turns due to the many Pokemon that can't touch it, such as Ferrothorn and Blissey.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The Special Defense EVs just guarantee Ho-Oh's survival against some powerful attacks. +4 Timid Life Orb Darkrai cannot OHKO this Ho-Oh, Choice Scarf Palkia only has a 3.13% chance to 2HKO with Thunder, and 252+ Dialga's Draco Meteor does a maximum of 51.56%. Any max Special Attack neutral-natured Arceus will never 2HKO Ho-Oh with a +1 neutral Judgment thanks to Leftovers. A Life Orb can be used over Leftovers, trading longevity for power; the item secures important OHKOs and 2HKOs that Ho-Oh cannot achieve with Leftovers, such as the almost-guaranteed OHKO on Choice Scarf Kyogre with Brave Bird after Stealth Rock damage. Genesect can never get past Ho-Oh unless it manages to grab a Special Attack boost beforehand and has Thunder or Explosion. Even Kyurem-W has trouble killing a full health Ho-Oh, as only Modest Choice Specs Ice Beam stands a chance to 2HKO and Draco Meteor can be outstalled with Roost. Both Latias and Latios are walled by Ho-Oh unless the latter packs Psyshock or rain is up and they carry Surf. Thunder from Latias barely 2HKOes Ho-Oh, while Brave Bird can easily net a 2HKO or even an OHKO if you are using Life Orb. When using a Life Orb, an alternate spread of 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe can be used for maximum power and optimum bulk. Leftovers is the preferred item, as Ho-Oh enjoys the extra recovery and the prevention of Brave Bird recoil from wearing down Ho-Oh too quickly.</p>

    <p>Earthquake is an option, as it rounds out Ho-Oh's coverage superbly, 2HKOing all forms of Zekrom (even OHKOing offensive variants after damage from Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes) as well as deterring Rock Arceus and the rare Heatran from switching in freely. Whirlwind allows Ho-Oh to become a great phazer, but that is generally better left to physically defensive Ho-Oh, which has more bulk.</p>

    <p> If you need Ho-Oh to beat Choice Specs Kyurem-W, using a set with max Special Defense investment is possible, but Ho-Oh will have to sacrifice a lot of power. Sunny Day can also be used on this set (in the last slot) to lure in Kyogre, Ho-Oh's most common check, and turn the tables on it, but this can only be done on the predicted switch-in or on defensive Kyogre, which usually do not invest in Speed. Ho-Oh's favorite teammates are Groudon and a Rapid Spinner; the former pumps up the power of Sacred Fire, while the latter serves as a means to prevent&mdash;but not guarantee&mdash;Stealth Rock from being up to cripple Ho-Oh. This set also really appreciates paralysis support to make up for its low Speed. Grass Arceus deters Ground-types from switching in with its typing, allowing it to slow down a large chunk of the enemy team with Thunder Wave. Dialga, Groudon, Lugia, Kyogre, Jirachi, and Blissey can also spread paralysis very effectively, as they are not common Thunder Wave users. Entry hazards are also recommended because Ho-Oh can force a lot of switches. Forretress can set up all three entry hazards, and Ho-Oh can easily come in on Fire-type attacks aimed at Forretress and start firing off powerful attacks. Excadrill is the best spinner in the tier, but it should only be paired with Ho-Oh on a sand team, as stacking Groudon and Excadrill with Ho-Oh makes the team extremely weak to Kyogre. Excadrill can easily switch in on Rock- or Electric-type attacks for Ho-Oh and weaken threats, while Ho-Oh can find many switch-in opportunities on Ground-, Fighting-, and Fire-type attacks aimed at Excadrill. While unreliable, Espeon and Xatu can use their Magic Bounce ability to keep Stealth Rock off the field for some time to support Ho-Oh.</p>

    <p>Forretress and Tentacruel are the only viable partners for Ho-Oh that can set up Toxic Spikes. Toxic Spikes, when combined with Substitute and Roost, can allow Ho-Oh to outstall many threats simply by spamming Substitute and Roost. For example, Ho-Oh can come in on something that it walls but is faster, such as Choice Scarf Palkia, and set up a Substitute as Palkia is worn down by the Toxic poison. From there, Ho-Oh can net another KO or two while safely behind its Substitute. However, bear in mind that you can no longer burn threats when they are poisoned.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Sweeper
    move 1: Flame Charge / Tailwind
    move 2: Sacred Fire
    move 3: Brave Bird
    move 4: Roost / Earthquake
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>One of Ho-Oh's biggest problems is usually its middling base 90 Speed, but this can be mitigated by using Flame Charge or Tailwind to boost its Speed to more acceptable levels. Sun support from Groudon is highly recommended to power up Ho-Oh's STAB Sacred Fire and Flame Charge and to remove Ho-Oh's weakness to Water-type attacks. Sun also reduces Thunder's accuracy to an unreliable 50%, which can be helpful because some threats rely on Thunder to take out Ho-Oh.</p>

    <p>Flame Charge and Tailwind both have their own advantages. Flame Charge's Speed boost lasts until Ho-Oh switches out and allows Ho-Oh to soften up the foe with a light smack before going on the full offensive. It can also break Focus Sashes and Sturdy so that one of Ho-Oh's other attacks can KO on the next turn. Flame Charge is the more consistent option, as the boost stays until Ho-Oh switches out, and Ho-Oh can continue boosting its Speed till +6 with enough free turns. However, Tailwind offers a significantly higher initial Speed boost. For example, Ho-Oh requires a Jolly Nature and 252 Speed EVs just to Speed tie with positive natured base 90 Speed Pokemon that have a Choice Scarf. However, Ho-Oh can outrun max Speed base 108 Pokemon equipped with Choice Scarf while itself running a neutral nature and only 176 Speed EVs after a single use of Tailwind. Tailwind also benefits the entire team; if Ho-Oh needs to switch out, a counter to your opponent's Ho-Oh check can step in and perform a mini-sweep of its own using the boosted Speed granted by Tailwind. However, Tailwind only lasts three turns after being used, which means Ho-Oh cannot sweep for long when more than three faster threats are still around.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire is always the main attack Ho-Oh will be using, and when backed by STAB and sunlight, outright OHKOes many Pokemon in the Uber tier, such as Mewtwo, as well as at least 2HKOing anything that does not resist it. Brave Bird, Ho-Oh's other incredibly potent STAB move of choice, nails Kyogre, Reshiram, and Palkia for assured OHKOs after just Stealth Rock damage. Brave Bird also provides Ho-Oh with a very strong sweeping attack in case the weather is not in its favor, but the recoil can be huge depending on how much damage it does. Roost rounds out the set brilliantly, helping Ho-Oh recover damage incurred from Stealth Rock and Life Orb, as well possibly allowing it to gain multiple Flame Charge boosts or to set up Tailwind repeatedly. While this Ho-Oh is an excellent offensive Pokemon, the loss of bulk is pretty significant, so it can no longer wall more powerful threats such as Calm Mind Arceus and Reshiram as reliably because both +1 Judgment and Draco Meteor OHKO Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock damage. Weaker threats, such as Shaymin-S and Darkrai, can still be checked, though. Although Fire- and Flying-type STABs are a good combination, they leave Ho-Oh walled by Zekrom, Heatran (it needs Toxic or Hidden Power Rock to beat Ho-Oh one on one, however), and Rock-type Pokemon. Earthquake solves this problem by OHKOing Zekrom after it takes damage from Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes, always OHKOing Heatran, and 2HKOing at worst all common Rock-type Pokemon. However, without Roost, Ho-Oh is extremely vulnerable to Stealth Rock, so solid Rapid Spin support is necessary with Earthquake.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs are fairly simple. Maximum Attack is used to hit as hard as possible, and the Speed EVs enable Ho-Oh to hit 418 Speed after a Flame Charge, which lets it outpace everything below Choice Scarf Heatran. If using Tailwind, it is best to run 176 Speed EVs, which allow Ho-Oh to outspeed Choice Scarf Terrakion with Tailwind up. An Adamant nature is preferred because it affords Ho-Oh a large amount of much-needed power. However, Jolly allows Ho-Oh to outspeed Deoxys-A and tie with Choice Scarf-wielding base 90 Speed Pokemon, such as Timid Reshiram, after a Flame Charge boost and Jolly Max Speed Excadrill in the sand after a Tailwind. If you want to take advantage of Ho-Oh's bulk, a spread of 140 HP / 176 Atk / 192 Spe can be used with an Adamant nature to outrun everything up to Mewtwo after a Flame Charge boost, but this comes at the price of losing some power and Speed. Flame Plate is possible over Life Orb to power up Sacred Fire and Flame Charge if you hate the recoil. Sky Plate can be used to 2HKO bulky Kyogre and Giratina-O with Brave Bird. An alternate EV spread of 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe lets you act like tank Ho-Oh with the ability to support the team through Tailwind, still giving Ho-Oh enough Speed to outspeed everything up to Mewtwo.</p>

    <p>Groudon, with its great bulk and everlasting sunlight courtesy of Drought, fulfills Ho-Oh's sunlight needs perfectly. Groudon can also set up Stealth Rock to help Ho-Oh nab some important OHKOs and is capable of beating many Pokemon that check Ho-Oh, such as Terrakion and Zekrom. Forretress's good Defense and many resistances allow it to fulfill the Rapid Spinning role perfectly; it can even set up Spikes to facilitate Ho-Oh's sweep. While attempting a successful Rapid Spin is hard in Ubers, Forretress does way more than that, as it can also help tank Outrages aimed at Ho-Oh and check certain threats, such as Terrakion with Gyro Ball. If you just wish to delay the setting up of Stealth Rock on your side of the field, Deoxys-S with Taunt is a good choice, as it can achieve this fairly easily thanks to its high Speed and can set up its own Stealth Rock. Magic Bounce users can also delay the opponent from setting up Stealth Rock. Sadly, the two Pokemon with the ability are easy to KO, making them mediocre partners.</p>

    <p>The best counter to this set is Rock Arceus, as it packs resistances to both of Ho-Oh's STAB moves, is bulky enough to take an Earthquake, and can easily destroy Ho-Oh with one Judgment. Ho-Oh also isn't a fan of Kyogre and Zekrom, as the former disposes of Ho-Oh's beloved sunlight and the latter can handle one hit from Ho-Oh and OHKO it with Bolt Strike. Defensive Groudon can also be an annoyance to this set, as Sacred Fire only 2HKOes it while Stone Edge OHKOes Ho-Oh if you fail to burn Groudon. Rock-types are rare in Ubers, and the only semi-common ones are Tyranitar and Terrakion, which are easily checked by Groudon. Thankfully, Groudon's bulk and very powerful STAB Earthquake make it an excellent counter to Zekrom, opposing Groudon, and Rock-types, including Rock Arceus. Palkia can easily come in on Kyogre's powerful Water-type strikes and defeat it with Thunder. Grass Arceus is capable of checking pretty much all of Ho-Oh's counters, either crippling them with status or setting up on them with Calm Mind. Latias can also help defeat Kyogre and Terrakion with her powerful Grass Knot.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Punishment / Sleep Talk
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Tailwind and Flame Charge can boost Ho-Oh's Speed, those require a turn of setup. With a Choice Scarf, Ho-Oh becomes a great revenge killer and late-game cleaner with its powerful attacks and solid bulk. Although Ho-Oh does not outrun most opposing Choice Scarf users, it is still fast enough to outrun all Pokemon up to Mewtwo and positive-natured Deoxys-A if you choose to go with a Jolly nature.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire, even without a Life Orb boost, is still a ridiculously powerful attack in the sunlight that maims anything that does not resist it. Brave Bird also stands as a very powerful secondary STAB that 2HKOes almost all Kyogre and Palkia. Only Bold Kyogre has a chance of avoiding the 2HKO after Stealth Rock damage and Scald does not even OHKO Ho-Oh in return. Earthquake is there to cover Pokemon such as Zekrom, Terrakion, Heatran, Tyranitar, and Reshiram, as well as getting a harder hit on Dialga outside of sun. However, getting locked into Earthquake is risky due to the sheer number of Flying-types and Levitate Pokemon in the Uber environment, so exercise caution before going ahead with the attack. Punishment is chosen as the last move to KO set-up sweepers such as Calm Mind Mewtwo, Giratina-O, and Ghost Arceus. As Punishment increases in power as these Pokemon gain Calm Mind boosts, Ho-Oh can easily use Punishment to save your team from utter ruin if the enemy Calm Mind user has acquired multiple boosts. Sleep Talk lets Ho-Oh switch in on Darkrai; Brave Bird and Sacred Fire can KO it after Stealth Rock damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs let Ho-Oh outrun everything up to neutral-natured Deoxys-A and maximize power, as this set needs all the power it can get. With an Adamant nature, Sacred Fire in the sun is even more powerful than Zekrom's Bolt Strike. If you manage to keep Stealth Rock off the field, Regenerator allows Ho-Oh to last a lot longer than most Choice Scarf users.</p>

    <p>Any teammate from the previous sets will also work well with this one. However, due to this Ho-Oh's considerably lower power, it can be more easily walled, as even defensive Groudon is not 2HKOed by any of Ho-Oh's moves. Wobbuffet can trap Ho-Oh with Shadow Tag and Counter it to oblivion as long as it does not come in on Sacred Fire in the sun. Choice Band Zekrom is able to stomp all over Kyogre with its powerful STAB Bolt Strike and can weaken Wobbuffet to the point where it can no longer trap Ho-Oh and live. Mixed attackers, such as Palkia and Dialga, can bluff a Choice Scarf by holding an item such as Lustrous Orb or Expert Belt to lure Wobbuffet in. As it Counters or Mirror Coats expecting a physical or special attack, Wobbuffet will quickly find itself being wiped off the face of the planet from an attack on the opposite side. However, Custap Berry allows Wobbuffet to somewhat bypass this with a faster Destiny Bond, although it has to be in the right HP range to work. Toxic Spikes from Forretress also badly mess up Wobbuffet. Using the sheer power that Pokemon such as Choice Specs Kyurem-W and Rayquaza possess can also help to eliminate Wobbuffet.</p>

    <p>This Ho-Oh set has no form of recovery outside of Regenerator, so Rapid Spin support from Forretress is a must. Using Wish support is also a good idea, as it gives Ho-Oh more switch-in opportunities, especially when Stealth Rock is up. Blissey is a notable Wish user, as it can pass Wishes so enormous that they will often fully heal Ho-Oh. Jirachi can also use Wish effectively and has access to U-turn, great bulk, and numerous resistances, including one to Rock-type attacks. If you are using Ho-Oh on a sand team, Excadrill can be a great partner thanks to its solid power deterring Ghost-types from switching in and access to Rapid Spin. However, using Ho-Oh on a sun team is best to power up Sacred Fire, and Groudon itself makes a great partner to Ho-Oh.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Angry Bird (Choice Band)
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Sleep Talk / Punishment
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Ho-Oh's greatest weakness has historically been Stealth Rock, which has dissuaded the use of Choice items on it. However, with Regenerator, Ho-Oh is able to switch in and out more freely, allowing it to wield the fearsome power of a Choice Band with far less risk. With a Choice Band, Ho-Oh becomes incredibly difficult to switch into; while a Life Orb also grants a comparable level of power, Choice Band's lack of recoil is appealing&mdash;even with Regenerator, Ho-Oh does not want to deal with additional passive damage when Stealth Rock is up. Choice Band-boosted Sacred Fire has amazing power in the sun, doing things such as OHKOing Arceus and Dialga after Stealth Rock and providing a comfortable 2HKO on physically defensive Groudon. It also ensures that Ho-Oh can take lead Deoxys-S down to its Focus Sash and&mdash;due to the chance of burn&mdash;limit Deoxys-S to one layer of hazards 47.5% of the time. Brave Bird is also incredibly powerful, OHKOing Kyogre and Palkia with no prior damage. It also 2HKOes Giratina-O, Forretress, and most physically defensive Arceus formes as well as a 2HKO on physically defensive Giratina with Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes. Earthquake covers Tyranitar, Rock Arceus, Kabutops, Omastar, Heatran, and Dialga in rain. Sleep Talk allows Ho-Oh to be a relatively safe switch-in to Darkrai's dreaded Dark Void, while Punishment can be used to smash Calm Mind users weak to it, such as Ghost Arceus, Giratina-O, and Latias.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Heavy HP investment gives Ho-Oh more bulk and makes the use of Brave Bird much less risky. Alternatively, maximum Speed can be used to get the drop on as many other base 90 Pokemon as possible, but the loss in bulk is noticeable. Ho-Oh's movepool is quite sparse, so what's listed here is about as good as it gets. Very niche options for the fourth slot include Aerial Ace to guarantee a connection against an Evasion booster and Roost to help deal with residual damage if a free turn is presented&mdash;this is of course very risky on a Choice-locked Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Rapid Spin support is actually more important for this set than sunlight. Unlike other sets, which have access to recovery, this Ho-Oh will be switching out often and relying on Regenerator to keep itself alive. Forretress can Rapid Spin while also providing entry hazards and switch-in opportunities with Volt Switch. Excadrill can switch into Zekrom fairly safely and can provide Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock support as well. Groudon is also an important supporter for this set&mdash;while the raw power of Brave Bird allows this set to function even in rain, Ho-Oh greatly appreciates boosted Sacred Fires and a neutrality to Water-type moves. Groudon can provide Stealth Rock as well, which makes Multiscale Lugia easier to handle and ensures a few important OHKOes and 2HKOes. Offensively, Extreme Killer Arceus is an excellent complement to this set, as is Rock Polish Groudon. Both greatly enjoy this set's ability to cripple opposing Giratina and Groudon, and Sacred Fire's burn rate can grant easy set-up opportunities for them. Ho-Oh is also an excellent switch-in to Choice Scarf Genesect, something which can interfere with a weakened Extreme Killer Arceus's sweep. Defensively, partners that can switch into Kyogre are very important; Latias and Palkia are good examples.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Substitute / Whirlwind
    move 4: Roost
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Impish
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Ho-Oh's Defense might not seem like much, but when fully invested and with the assistance of Sacred Fire burns, the rainbow phoenix can take its fair share of physical abuse. This Ho-Oh aims to spread burns through Sacred Fire and act as an excellent pivot through Regenerator. Full investment in Defense allows Ho-Oh to take a myriad of physical attacks much more comfortably; Extreme Killer Arceus's +2 ExtremeSpeed, Rayquaza's +1 Outrage, Mewtwo's + 1 Psystrike, and support Groudon's Stone Edge all fail to OHKO.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire is needed to spread burns; Brave Bird is the other obligatory STAB attack, dealing respectable damage, even with minimal Attack investment. Substitute is the primary option to ease prediction and protect Ho-Oh from status. Earthquake can also be used to hit Heatran and the Rock-types that plague Ho-Oh. Whirlwind is another option to rack up hazard damage and scout switches; it is especially effective because Ho-Oh forces out a lot of Pokemon. Roost gives Ho-Oh some much needed longevity outside of switching out repeatedly. Roost can be used with a faster spread to absorb Ice-, Rock-, and Electric-type attacks.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is simple, as it maximizing Defense and maintains an odd HP number to round down Stealth Rock damage. The leftover EVs are placed in Attack to give a little kick to Sacred Fire and Brave Bird. Combined with Regenerator, this Ho-Oh can switch endlessly into both Giratina formes, only taking significant damage from invested Giratina-O's Outrage. Ho-Oh still has massive Special Defense, meaning it can perform its normal duties of switching into the powerful special attacks thrown about in Ubers.</p>

    <p>Like all other Ho-Oh sets, the removal of Stealth Rock is greatly appreciated; Forretress, Tentacruel, and Excadrill are all excellent spinners in Ubers. Groudon isn't nearly as necessary for this set as other Ho-Oh sets, as Sacred Fire's primary job is to spread burns. A physically defensive Ghost-type Pokemon, such as RestTalk Giratina-O, pairs excellently with this Ho-Oh, absorbing the weak attacks of burned Pokemon and phazing with Dragon Tail. Ferrothorn is also a great partner to this set, as it handles the majority of the Pokemon commonly found on rain teams and walls Choice Scarf Zekrom. Latias, Palkia, Chansey, and Blissey also make for great defensive partners, absorbing the few strong special attacks that Ho-Oh can't.</p>

    <p>This set still fears rain-boosted Water-type attacks from Pokemon such as Kyogre and Palkia, in addition to Thunder, although the latter does not usually KO. Stone Edge from any offensively-inclined Pokemon will still KO Ho-Oh, although defensive Groudon has a chance not to. Jolly Choice Scarf Zekrom's Bolt Strike has a chance not to KO, but the KO with Adamant is still guaranteed.<p>

    <p>Thunder Wave can be used over one of the attacking options, as it is very annoying for opposing Ho-Oh and can cripple other threats that rely on their Speed, such as over-eager Choice Scarf Kyogre looking to switch in on Sacred Fire. Toxic is also viable, crippling Lugia and Arceus Rock, two of Ho-Oh's greatest checks, but they don't exactly appreciate Thunder Wave either.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Recover is an option over Roost if you desperately need to keep Ho-Oh's immunity to Ground-type attacks at all times. Hippowdon is the only notable Earthquake user that is always slower than Ho-Oh, but it can easily be burned and walled anyway. Ho-Oh can utilize any of Reflect, Light Screen, and Toxic to become a very good wall with Pressure, but that role is better left to Lugia, which has greater Defense and Speed. Ho-Oh is also a good spreader of paralysis with Thunder Wave, so the move can be used on defensive sets, but Ho-Oh is better off killing things directly. Ground-type Pokemon, such as Groudon and Garchomp, rarely switch into Ho-Oh due to the risk of getting burned by Sacred Fire. Safeguard can also be used to give Ho-Oh status protection, but Substitute is usually the better option, as it also stops Leech Seed. Finally, Ho-Oh can use Calm Mind or Choice Specs and run a decent special attacking set with its good base 110 Special Attack, but it's generally outclassed by Reshiram in that respect due to Reshiram's much higher Special Attack and access to STAB Dragon-type attacks. Thunder seems like a great move to KO Kyogre, but Brave Bird actually does more damage to most Kyogre due to Kyogre's Defense being much lower than its Special Defense and Ho-Oh's high Attack.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ho-Oh is extremely hard to counter due to its high bulk, powerful attacks, and the threat of a burn. The best way to keep Ho-Oh in check isn't a Pokemon at all; it is Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock limits Ho-Oh's longevity by stripping off 50% of its health every time it switches in. Even with Regenerator, Ho-Oh fears Stealth Rock more than anything else. Keeping a sturdy Ghost-type such as Giratina-O or Ghost Arceus is recommended to ensure Stealth Rock isn't spun away.</p>

    <p>Kyogre is by far the most common way to check Ho-Oh because of Drizzle canceling out Ho-Oh's beloved sunlight and Kyogre's immense power. A full power Water Spout from Kyogre can easily drown Ho-Oh regardless of its EVs. While surprising, specially defensive Ho-Oh actually stands a chance of surviving one Surf from non-Choice Specs Kyogre. Additionally, offensive Kyogre is 2HKOed by Brave Bird. Bold Kyogre avoids the 2HKO from Brave Bird, but Scald does not OHKO in return, making it a shaky check. The reason Kyogre is so widely used to counter Ho-Oh is because it can counteract Ho-Oh's most common partner, Groudon. Most of Ho-Oh's checks are defeated by Groudon, but Kyogre easily OHKOes both with its high-powered Water-type attacks, making it the most consistent check.</p>

    <p>Rock Arceus is probably the closest thing Ho-Oh has to a true counter. It resists both Sacred Fire and Brave Bird, has the bulk to take multiple hits, and can OHKO Ho-Oh with a swift Judgment. However, Rock Arceus really hates switching in on Earthquake repeatedly, as it 2HKOes, especially in conjunction with burn damage. Zekrom also resists both of Ho-Oh's STABs, has high Defense, and can easily fell it with Bolt Strike. However, Zekrom loathes a possible burn, and a Life Orb Earthquake almost OHKOes it. Heatran is immune to Sacred Fire and a burn and resists Brave Bird but is OHKOed by Earthquake and cannot do much to Ho-Oh in return besides Toxic. Palkia quadruple resists Sacred Fire and can take one Brave Bird from full health, but even though it possesses STAB Water-type attacks, Ho-Oh actually walls Palkia in the sunlight unless it carries Stone Edge. Outside of sun, Palkia can easily 2HKO Ho-Oh with Surf, and Stone Edge is a must if you rely on Palkia to check Ho-Oh. Power Gem does not even come close to OHKOing Ho-Oh. Giratina is one of the few walls capable of soaking up Ho-Oh's attacks somewhat comfortably, but it cannot do much in return besides phaze, as Ho-Oh can avoid Toxic with Substitute. Physically defensive Giratina-O is not 2HKOed by Brave Bird and can 2HKO Ho-Oh back with Outrage, but an untimely burn messes it up. Rayquaza also outspeeds Ho-Oh and can Outrage it into oblivion, but Rayquaza can only really come in on Earthquake, as it cannot risk eating a burn or Brave Bird. Lugia can cripple Ho-Oh with a faster Toxic, can soften hits with Reflect, and stall Ho-Oh out with Roost and Pressure. However, Lugia does not enjoy taking repeated Sacred Fires in the sun, especially because Lugia is likely to be burned as well. Lugia is also capable of forcing out Ho-Oh with Whirlwind but cannot deal real damage outside of Toxic. A fast Choice Band Groudon can survive at least one attack and OHKO Ho-Oh with Stone Edge, even after a burn. Tyranitar resists both of Ho-Oh's STABs and has a powerful Stone Edge to OHKO back, but it risks getting stalled out by Substitute if Stone Edge misses and is extremely vulnerable to being burned. Kyurem-B does not resist any of Ho-Oh's common attacks but is faster than it and bulky enough to take one hit and OHKO back with Fusion Bolt. Hippowdon can take repeated hits thanks to Slack Off, set up Stealth Rock, and Whirlwind Ho-Oh out, but it fails to do any real damage.</p>

    <p>Mewtwo can OHKO Ho-Oh with Psystrike after Stealth Rock damage, but it cannot switch in safely on any move besides Roost. While it is a rather strange proposition, a defensive Fire Arceus with Stone Edge is immune to burn and can KO Ho-Oh in one hit, making it one of the best albeit niche counters to Ho-Oh. Kabutops quadruple resists Sacred Fire and is only 3HKOed by Brave Bird, so it can switch in on one hit and OHKO slower Ho-Oh sets with Stone Edge, but Earthquake can smash it to pieces, so it must be wary of switching in. Reshiram with Stone Edge can turn the tables on Ho-Oh, as it does not fear burn or Sacred Fire while Stone Edge OHKOes. Almost anything faster than Ho-Oh that has a Rock-type attack, such as Choice Scarf Garchomp or Terrakion, can easily revenge kill it with Stone Edge.</p>

    ----
    <Hugendugen> whales are just water horses Kyogre = horse
  2. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    739
    Why is it Recover on the first set and Roost on the second set? Is there something significant about losing the Flying type that only applies to the second set?
  3. trickroom

    trickroom
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,000
    Both are using Roost now, it is more effective. Roost lets you stall out Stone Edge from Groudon or Tyranitar if you burned them earlier. 4x Stone Edge still does more than 2x Earthquake anyway from Groudon.

    Its Recover earlier by the original poster but I changed to Roost. This is now ready for GP.
  4. Steven Snype

    Steven Snype
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,955
    in progress (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>Ho-Oh still holds its position as one of the top threats in the game. With a huge base 130 Attack, coupled with its and powerful STAB options in Sacred Fire (which carries an impressive 50% burn rate) and Brave Bird, Ho-Oh can easily put serious hurt on anything that dares to stand up to it. Ho-Oh is actually capable of checking all the newcomers in BW2 save Kyurem-B. Regenerator increases Ho-Oh's durability, allowing Ho-Oh to function as a bulky pivot. Ho-Oh can even amp up its middling Speed with Flame Charge, potentially sweeping an entire weakened team with its immensely powerful STABs. Ho-Oh is not restricted to a specific weather archetype because it counters limited on sun teams as it can easily fit in on sand or even rain teams to counter certain threats such as Fighting Arceus and sun teams that often find themselves completely walled by Ho-Oh. Unfortunately, Stealth Rock will continue to be Ho-Oh's biggest weakness even with access to Regenerator, as the rainbow bird despises losing 50% of its HP on every switch-in. Nevertheless, Ho-Oh remains a top-tier threat that can incinerate even the toughest of teams with ease.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Substitute / Earthquake
    move 4: Roost
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 176 Atk / 84 SpD

    <p>This Ho-Oh set is extremely easy to use because it can easily shrugs off most non-super effective hits while replying with powerful attacks of its own. Unlike most walls, Ho-Oh packs a lot of power, and it can KO the opponent outright instead of relying on status or phazing moves. Thanks to Ho-Oh's great stat layout, it can wall most special attackers with just 248 HP EVs; the Special Defense EVs are just a boost to just guarantee Ho-Oh's survival against some powerful attacks. Most Calm Mind Arceus that lack a super-effective hit against Ho-Ohvariants of Arceus forms who can't hit Ho-Oh super-effectively with their STABs will have little hope of breaking past Ho-Oh's massive bulk. This set also checks other notable threats such as Darkrai, Shaymin-S, Palkia, Reshiram, Latias, Genesect, Dialga, and Kyurem-W. are all checked by this set.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire and Brave Bird are the main attacks., the former is boosted by sun and deals tremendous damage to anything that doesn't resist it. Sacred Fire's solid burn rate will also deter switch ins from the likes of Rayquaza or other powerful physical attackers hoping to take out Ho-Oh. Brave Bird is a powerful STAB move that can be easily thrown around in the tier where few resists Flying-type moves, easily annihilating Kyogre, Palkia, and Reshiram. Despite the lack of Speed investment, Roost lets Ho-Oh stall out defensive Groudon's Stone Edge, which becomes and this is achieved even easier when Groudon is burned. Although Roost makes Ho-Oh vulnerable to Earthquake, most of its users will likely be faster than Ho-Oh anyway and Stone Edge from Groudon will still do more damage to a non-Roosting Ho-Oh than Earthquake to a Roosting Ho-Oh. while Roosting. Hippowdon is the only notable Earthquake user who is always slower than Ho-Oh, but the hippo can easily be burned and walled anyway. Recover is an alternative over Roost if you desperately need to keep Ho-Oh's immunity to Ground-type attacks at all times. Substitute gives Ho-Oh status protection and eases prediction, especially when Ho-Oh can frequently find free switchins on many Pokemon who can't touch it such as Ferrothorn and Blissey. Stalling with Pressure seems like a great idea at first as Ho-Oh can use Substitute to quite easily stall out the PP of dangerous moves such as Kyogre's Water Spout, but Regenerator is the more consistent option and should always be used unless you prefer PP stalling instead of increased longevity. Earthquake is an option as it rounds out the coverage superbly, 2HKOing all forms of Zekrom (and OHKOing offensive variants after taking damage from Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes), deterring and it deters Rock Arceus and the rare Heatran from switching in freely. Leftovers is the preferred item as Ho-Oh enjoys the extra recovery and it also prevents the recoil of Brave Bird from wearing down Ho-Oh too quickly. Whirlwind allows Ho-Oh to become a great phazer, but that is generally better left to physically defensive Ho-Oh who has more physical bulk.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread gives Ho-Oh a decent amount of power, while still retaining its high special bulk. +4 Timid Life Orb Darkrai will not OHKO this Ho-Oh, Choice Scarf Palkia only has a 3.13% chance to 2HKO with Thunder, and 252+ Dialga's Draco Meteor will top at only 51.56%. Any max Special Attack neutral nature Arceus will never 2HKO Ho-Oh with a +1 neutral Judgment thanks to Leftovers. A Life Orb can be used over Leftovers, which trades longevity for power: the item allows important OHKOs and 2HKOs that Ho-Oh cannot achieve with Leftovers, such as almost guaranteeing the OHKO on Choice Scarf Kyogre with Brave Bird after Stealth Rock damage. Genesect can never get past Ho-Oh unless it manages to grab a Special Attack boost beforehand and has Thunder or Explosion. Even Kyurem-W will have trouble killing a full health Ho-Oh as only Modest Choice Specs Ice Beam stands a chance to 2HKO and Draco Meteor can be outstalled with Roost. Both Latias and Latios are walled by Ho-Oh unless Latios packs Psyshock, or the weather is favorable to them such as Surf in rain. Thunder from Latias barely 2HKOes Ho-Oh, while Brave Bird can easily net a 2HKO or even an OHKO if you are using Life Orb. When using a Life Orb, an alternate spread of 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe Life Orb can be used for maximum power and optimum bulk. If you need Ho-Oh to beat Choice Specs Kyurem-W, using a set with max Special Defense investment is possible but Ho-Oh will have to sacrifice a lot of power. Sunny Day can also be used on this set in the last slot, to lure in Kyogre, Ho-Oh's most common check and turn the tables on it but this can only be done on the predicted switch in or on defensive Kyogre who usually do not invest in Speed.</p>

    <p>Ho-Oh's favorite teammates are Groudon and a Rapid Spinner; the former pumps up the power of Sacred Fire, while the latter serves as a mean to prevent but not guarantee Stealth Rock from crippling Ho-Oh. but will not be always successful. This set also really appreciates paralysis support to make up for its low Speed. Grass Arceus can easily deter Ground-types from switching in thanks to its typing, allowing it to easily slow a large chunk of the enemy team with Thunder Wave. Dialga, Groudon, Lugia, Kyogre, Jirachi, and Blissey can all also spread paralysis very effectively because they are not common Thunder Wave users. Lots of Entry hazards of any kind are also recommended, because Ho-Oh can force a lot of switches. Forretress can set up all three entry hazards, and Ho-Oh can easily come in on Fire-type attacks aimed at Forretress and start firing back powerful attacks. Excadrill is the best spinner in the tier but it should only be paired with Ho-Oh in a sand team, because stacking Groudon and Excadrill as Ho-Oh's partners on the same team makes the team extremely weak to Kyogre. Excadrill can easily switch in on Rock- or Electric-type attacks for Ho-Oh and weaken threats for Ho-Oh while Ho-Oh can find many switch in opportunities on Ground-, Fighting- and Fire-type attacks aimed at Excadrill to setup Substitute. While unreliable, Espeon and Xatu can abuse their Magic Bounce ability to keep Stealth Rock off the field for some time to support Ho-Oh.</p>

    (After this point, I am just going to implement a c/p check as opposed to traditional red/blue as this is really long, so it'd look cluttered)

    <p>Toxic Spikes support, provided by Forretress and Tentacruel, allows Ho-Oh to outstall many threats simply by spamming Substitute and Roost while its foes take increasing damage each turn. For example, Ho-Oh can come in on a faster Pokemon that it walls, such as Choice Scarf Palkia, and spam Substitute as Palkia faints from the Toxic Spikes poison. From there, Ho-Oh can easily net another KO or two while safely behind its baby Rhydon doll. Bear in mind, you can no longer burn threats when they are affected by Toxic Spikes.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Physical Sweeper
    move 1: Flame Charge / Tailwind
    move 2: Sacred Fire
    move 3: Brave Bird
    move 4: Roost / Earthquake
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>One of Ho-Oh's biggest problems was its middling base 90 Speed but this problem can be solved by using Flame Charge or Tailwind to boost its Speed to more acceptable levels. Sunlight support from the likes of Groudon is highly recommended to power up Ho-Oh's STAB Sacred Fire and Flame Charge and to remove Ho-Oh's weakness to Water-type attacks. Sun also helps reduce Thunder's accuracy to an unreliable 50%, which can be helpful because some threats rely on Thunder to take out Ho-Oh.</p>

    <p>Flame Charge and Tailwind both have their own advantages. Flame Charge's Speed boost will last until Ho-Oh switches out, and it also allows Ho-Oh to soften up the opponent's Ho-Oh check with a light smack before going on the offensive. More importantly, it can break Focus Sashes or Sturdy from the likes of Forretress and Skarmory and then go for the real attack, using them as setup bait. However, Tailwind offers a significantly higher Speed boost. For example, Ho-Oh requires a Jolly Nature and 252 Speed EVs just to Speed tie with positive nature base 90 Speed Pokemon that have a Choice Scarf. However, Ho-Oh, after a single use of Tailwind can outrun max Speed base 108 Pokemon equipped with Choice Scarf while itself running a neutral Speed nature and only 176 Speed EVs. Tailwind also benefits the entire team; just in case Ho-Oh needs to switch out, a counter to your opponent's Ho-Oh check can step in and perform a mini-sweep on its own using the boosted Speed granted by Tailwind. However, Tailwind only lasts 3 turns after being used, which means Ho-Oh can never sweep for long when a few faster threats are still around. Flame Charge is usually the more consistent option as the boost stays until Ho-Oh switches out and Ho-Oh can continue boosting its Speed until it reaches +6, if possible.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire is always the main attack Ho-Oh will be using, and when backed by STAB and sunlight, it outright OHKOes many Pokemon in the Uber tier such as Mewtwo, as well as at least 2HKOing anything that does not resist it. Brave Bird, Ho-Oh's other incredibly potent STAB move of choice, nails Kyogre, Reshiram, and Palkia for assured OHKOs after just Stealth Rock damage. Brave Bird also provides Ho-Oh with a very strong sweeping attack in case the weather is not in its favor, but beware of its recoil. Roost rounds out the set to help Ho-Oh recover damage incurred from Stealth Rock and Life Orb, as well possibly allowing it to gain multiple Flame Charge boosts or to set up Tailwind repeatedly. While this Ho-Oh is an excellent offensive pokemon, the loss of bulk is pretty significant and it can no longer wall more powerful threats such as Calm Mind Arceus and Reshiram as reliably because both +1 Judgment and Draco Meteor will OHKO Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock damage. Weaker threats such as Shaymin-S and Darkrai can still be checked though. Although Fire- and Flying-type STABs are a good combination, it will leave Ho-Oh walled by Zekrom, Heatran (it needs Toxic or Hidden Power Rock to beat Ho-Oh one on one, however), and Rock-type Pokemon. Earthquake solves this problem by OHKOing Zekrom after it takes damage from Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes, always OHKOing Heatran, and 2HKOing at worst any Rock-type Pokemon not named Solrock, Lunatone, or Aerodactyl, all Pokemon unfit for Ubers play. However, without Roost, Ho-Oh will become extremely vulnerable to Stealth Rock, so solid Rapid Spin support will be necessary.</p>

    <p>The EVs are fairly simple. Maximum Attack hits as hard as possible, and the Speed EVs enable Ho-Oh to hit 418 Speed after a Flame Charge, which lets it outpace everything below Choice Scarf Heatran. If using Tailwind, it is best to run 176 Speed EVs, which will allow Ho-Oh to outspeed Choice Scarf Terrakion. Adamant is preferred because it affords Ho-Oh a large amount of much-needed power. However, Jolly allows Ho-Oh to outspeed Deoxys-A and tie with other Choice Scarf base 90 Speed Pokemon such as Timid Reshiram after a Flame Charge boost and Jolly Max Speed Excadrill in the sand after a Tailwind. If you rather like taking advantage of Ho-Oh's bulk, a spread of 140 HP / 176 Atk / 192 Spe can be used with an Adamant nature to outrun everything up to Mewtwo after a Flame Charge boost but that comes at the price of losing some power and Speed. Flame Plate is possible over Life Orb to power up Sacred Fire and Flame Charge if you hate the recoil.</p>

    == got to here==


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Groudon, with its great bulk and everlasting sunlight courtesy of Drought, fulfills Ho-Oh's sunlight needs perfectly. Groudon can also set up Stealth Rock to help Ho-Oh nab some important OHKOs and is capable of beating many pokemon who checks Ho-Oh such as Terrakion and Zekrom. Forretress's good physical Defense and many resistances allow it to fulfill the Rapid Spinning role perfectly as well, and it can even set up Spikes to facilitate Ho-Oh's sweep. While attempting a successful Rapid Spin is hard in Ubers, Forretress does way more than that as it can also help tank Outrages aimed at Ho-Oh and check certain threats such as Terrakion with Gyro Ball. If you just wish to delay the setting up of Stealth Rock on your field, Deoxys-S with Taunt can achieve that fairly easily thanks to its high Speed and can setup Stealth Rock of you own. Magic Bounce users can delay the opponent from setting up Stealth Rock on your field. Sadly, the two pokemon with that ability are awful and are easy to KO making them mediocre partners.</p>

    <p>The best counter to this set is Rock Arceus, as it packs resistances to both of Ho-Oh's STAB moves, is bulky enough to take an Earthquake, and can easily destroy Ho-Oh with one Judgment. Ho-Oh also isn't a fan of Kyogre and Zekrom, as the formers disposes of Ho-Oh's beloved sunlight and the latter can handle one hit from Ho-Oh and OHKO it back with Bolt Strike. Defensive Groudon can also be an annoyance to this set as Saced Fire only 2HKOes it, while Stone Edge will OHKO Ho-Oh if you failed to burn it. Rock-types are rare in Ubers and the only semi-common one are Tyranitar and Terrakion who are easily checked by Groudon. Thankfully, Groudon's bulk and very powerful STAB Earthquake make it an excellent counter to Zekrom, opposing Groudon and Rock-types, including Rock Arceus. Palkia can easily come in on Kyogre's powerful Water-type strikes and defeat it with Thunder. Grass Arceus is capable of checking pretty much all of Ho-Oh's counters, either crippling them with status or setting up on them with Calm Mind. Latias can also help defeat Kyogre and Terrakion with her powerful Grass Knot.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Punishment / Sleep Talk
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Tailwind and Flame Charge can boost Ho-Oh's Speed, those require a turn to be setup. With Choice Scarf, Ho-Oh becomes a great revenge killer and late-game cleaner with its powerful attacks and solid bulk. Although Ho-Oh does not outrun most opposing Choice Scarf users, it is still good enough to outrun anything up to Mewtwo and positive nature Deoxys-A if you choose to go with a Jolly nature.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire, even without a Life Orb boost, is still a ridiculously powerful attack in the sunlight that will maim anything that does not resist it. Brave Bird also stands as a very powerful secondary STAB that 2HKOes almost any Kyogre and Palkia. Only Bold Kyogre has a chance of avoiding the 2HKO after Stealth Rock damage and Scald does not even OHKO Ho-Oh in return. Earthquake is there to cover things such as Zekrom, Terrakion, Heatran, Tyranitar and gets a harder hit on Dialga outside of sun and Reshiram. However, getting locked on Earthquake is risky due to the sheer number of Flying-types and Levitators in the Uber environment, so exercise caution before going ahead with the attack. Punishment is chosen as the last move to KO setup sweepers such as Calm Mind Mewtwo, Calm Mind Giratina-O, and Calm Mind Ghost Arceus. As it increases in power as they gain Calm Mind boosts, Ho-Oh can easily use Punishment to save your team from utter ruin if the enemy Calm Mind user has acquired multiple boosts. Sleep Talk lets Ho-Oh switch in on Darkrai and either Brave Bird or Sacred Fire will KO Darkrai after Stealth Rock damage. The EVs help Ho-Oh outrun everything up to neutral nature Deoxys-A and maximize power because this set needs all the power it can get. With an Adamant nature, Sacred Fire in the sun is even more powerful than Zekrom's Bolt Strike.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Once again, any teammate from the previous sets will also work well with this one. However, due to this Ho-Oh's considerably lower power, it can be more easily walled as even defensive Groudon will not be 2HKOed by anything and Wobbuffet can trap it with Shadow Tag and Counter it to oblivion as long as it does no switch in on Sacred Fire in the sun. Choice Band Zekrom is able to stomp all over Kyogre with its powerful STAB Bolt Strike, and can also weaken Wobbuffet to the point where it can no longer trap Ho-Oh. Mixed attackers such as Palkia and Dialga can bluff a Choice Scarf by holding an item such as Lustrous Orb or Expert Belt to lure Wobbuffet in. As it Counters or Mirror Coats, expecting a physical or special attack, Wobbuffet will quickly find itself being wiped off the face of the planet from an attack on the opposite side. Toxic Spikes from Forretress also badly mess up Wobbuffet. Using sheer power such as Choice Specs Kyurem-W and Rayquaza can also help to eliminate Wobbuffet.</p>

    <p>This Ho-Oh set has no form of recovery outside of Regenerator, so Rapid Spin support from Forretress is a must. Using Wish support is also a good idea to keep as both an extra defense against Stealth Rock and to help Ho-Oh switch into resisted attacks. Blissey is a notable user as it can pass Wishes so enormous that they will often fully heal the rainbow phoenix. Jirachi can also use Wish effectively, has access to U-turn, great bulk and numerous resistances, including a resistance to Rock-type attacks. If you are using this in a sand team, Excadrill can be a great partner thanks to its solid power deterring Ghost-types from switching in and access to Rapid Spin. However, using this in a sun team is best to power up Sacred Fire's power and Groudon itself makes a great partner to Ho-Oh.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Ho-Oh can utilize Reflect, Light Screen, and/or Toxic to become a very good staller with Pressure but that role is better left to Lugia who has greater physical Defense and Speed. Ho-Oh is also a good spreader of paralysis with Thunder Wave and can be used on defensive sets but it is better off killing things directly. Ground-type Pokemon such as Groudon and Garchomp will rarely switch into Ho-Oh due to the risk of getting burned by Sacred Fire. Safeguard can also be used to give Ho-Oh status protection but Substitute is usually the better option as it also stops Leech Seed. Finally, Ho-Oh can use Calm Mind or Choice Specs and run a decent special attacking set with its good base 110 Special Attack, but it's generally outclassed by Reshiram in that respect due to much higher Special Attack and STAB Dragon-type attacks. Thunder seems like a great move to KO Kyogre but Brave Bird will actually do more damage to most Kyogre due to its much lower physical Defense and Ho-Oh's high Attack stat.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ho-Oh is extremely hard to counter due to its high bulk, powerful attacks and the coin flip of dealing a burn as well., unless you are a Fire-type. The best way to keep Ho-Oh in check, isn't a Pokemon at all; it is the move Stealth Rock as it limits Ho-Oh's bulk by stripping off 50% of its health every time it switches in. Even with Regenerator, Ho-Oh fears Stealth Rock more than anything else.</p>

    <p>Kyogre is by far the most common way to check Ho-Oh because of Drizzle canceling out Ho-Oh's beloved sunlight and Kyogre's immense power. A full power Water Spout from the giant blue whale will easily drown the rainbow phoenix regardless of the phoenix's EVs. While surprising, defensive Ho-Oh actually stands a chance of surviving one Surf from non-Choice Specs Kyogre. However, Kyogre does not enjoy taking Brave Birds on the switch in because that will 2HKO offensive sets easily. Bold Kyogre avoids the 2HKO from Brave Bird but Scald does not even OHKO in return making it a shaky check. The reason Kyogre is so widely used to counter Ho-Oh is because it is not affected by Ho-Oh's most common partner, Groudon. Most of Ho-Oh's checks are defeated by Groudon but Kyogre easily OHKOes both with its high-powered Water-type attacks, making it the most consistent check.</p>

    <p>Rock Arceus is probably the closest thing Ho-Oh has to a true counter. It resists both Sacred Fire and Brave Bird, has the bulk to take multiple hits, and can OHKO Ho-Oh with a swift Judgment. However, Rock Arceus really hates switching in on Earthquake repeatedly as that will 2HKO, especially in conjunction with burn damage. Zekrom also resists both of Ho-Oh's STABs, has high Defense and can easily fell it with Bolt Strike. However, Zekrom loathes a possible burn and a Life Orb Earthquake will almost OHKO it. Heatran is immune to Sacred Fire and burn, resists Brave Bird but is OHKOed by Earthquake and cannot do much to Ho-Oh in return besides Toxic. Palkia quad resists Sacred Fire and can take one Brave Bird but even though it possesses STAB Water-type attacks, Ho-Oh actually walls Palkia in the sunlight unless it carries Stone Edge. Outside of sun, Palkia can easily 2HKO Ho-Oh with Surf, and Stone Edge is a must if you rely on Palkia to check Ho-Oh. Power Gem does not even come close to OHKOing Ho-Oh. Giratina is one of the few walls capable of soaking up Ho-Oh's attacks somewhat comfortably, but cannot do much in return besides phazing as Ho-Oh can avoid Toxic with Substitute. Physically Defensive Giratina-O is not 2HKOed by Brave Bird and can 2HKO Ho-Oh back with Outrage but an untimely burn will mess it up. Rayquaza also outspeeds Ho-Oh and can Outrage it into oblivion, but Rayquaza can only really come in on Earthquake as it cannot risk eating a burn or Brave Bird. Lugia can cripple Ho-Oh with a faster Toxic, and can soften hits with Reflect and stall it out with Roost and Pressure. However, Lugia will not enjoy taking repeated Sacred Fires in the sun especially when Lugia is likely to be burned as well. Lugia is also capable of forcing out Ho-Oh with Whirlwind but cannot deal real damage outside of Toxic. A fast Choice Band Groudon can survive at least one attack and OHKO Ho-Oh with Stone Edge even after a burn. Tyranitar resists both of Ho-Oh's STABs and has a powerful Stone Edge to OHKO back but it can risk getting stalled out by Substitute if Stone Edge misses, and is extremely vulnerable to being burned. Kyurem-B does not resist anything but is faster and bulky enough to take one hit and OHKO back with Fusion Bolt. Hippowdon can take repeated hits thanks to Slack Off, setup Stealth Rock and Whirlwind the phoenix out but fails to do any real damage to Ho-Oh.</p>

    <p>Mewtwo can OHKO Ho-Oh with Psytrike after Stealth Rock damage although it cannot switch in safely on any move besides Roost. While weird, a defensive Fire Arceus with Stone Edge is immune to burn and can KO Ho-Oh in one hit making it one of the best albeit niche counters to Ho-Oh. Kabutops quad resists Sacred Fire and is only 3HKOed by Brave Bird so it can switch in on one hit, and OHKO slower Ho-Oh sets with Stone Edge but Earthquake will smash the shellfish to pieces. Reshiram with Stone Edge can turn the tables on Ho-Oh, as it does not fear burns and Sacred Fires while Stone Edge will OHKO the phoenix. Almost anything faster than Ho-Oh that has Rock-type attacks, such as Choice Scarf Garchomp or Terrakion can easily revenge kill it with Stone Edge.</p>

    <p>Keeping a sturdy Ghost-type such as Giratina-O or Ghost Arceus is recommended to ensure Stealth Rock isn't spun away.</p>
  5. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,398
    Seeing as how I checked the last Ho-Oh revamp, can I still check this one? (I assume yes but I'd like to ask anyhow.)
  6. Bossness

    Bossness

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    433
    I think it needs to be mentioned that most 252 HP Calm Mind Arceus are 2HKOed by the combination of Flame Charge + Sacred Fire. Ho-Oh is still a good counter to Calm Mind Arceus formes if Stealth Rock is kept off Ho-Oh's side. This is one of the reasons to use Flame Charge Ho-Oh - it can beat Calm Mind Arceus and receive a Speed boost to take on the next Pokemon.
    Example:
    252+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ghost in sun: 298-352 (67.11 - 79.27%)
    252+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Flame Charge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ghost in sun: 149-177 (33.55 - 39.86%)
    +1 4 SpA Spooky Plate Arceus-Ghost Judgment (Ghost) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh: 156-184 (44.19 - 52.12%)

    If Ho-Oh holds a Life Orb, then it OHKOs offensive Kyogre 31.25% of the time without any prior damage. After Stealth Rock damage, Brave Bird nets a guaranteed KO on Kyogre. The defensive sets can never take two Life Orb Brave Birds.

    4 HP Arceus-Rock can be KOed by Flame Charge + Earthquake after Stealth Rock. Even the 252 HP Arceus-Rock can be Koed by that combination after Stealth Rock with high damage rolls.
    vs. 252 HP Arceus-Rock:
    Earthquake: 59.68 - 70.94%
    Flame Charge: 16.89 - 19.81%
    Stealth Rock: 12.5%

    vs. 4 HP Arceus-Rock:
    Earthquake: 69.37 - 82.46%
    Flame Charge: 19.63 - 23.03%
    Note that this has a chance to KO even without Stealth Rock.

    I think that the Checks and Counters section assume that Ho-Oh is holding leftovers? Palkia is also OHKOed by Life Orb Brave Bird (guaranteed after Stealth Rock)

    Physically Defensive Giratina-A is 3hkoed by Life Orb Brave Bird. All Ho-Oh has to do is keep a Substitute up and Roost as Giratina-A uses Rest. Giratina will likely be KOed before it wakes up and has to rely on Sleep Talk choosing Dragon Tail/Roar.
  7. trickroom

    trickroom
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,000
    I mentioned it can no longer wall CM Arceus which is true because if you come in on Calm Mind, Arceus will OHKO you after Stealth Rocks, yes Ho-Oh can still beat it but that will be considered as a check, and sunny weather is factored in, that wouldn't be 100%. The first set still beats it CM Arceus more comfortably, and the loss of bulk is significant. Things like Scarf Draco Meteor will OHKO after SR now. Can't really assume no Stealth Rock all the time.

    I mentioned Kyogre will not enjoy Brave Birds already and the OHKO isn't guaranteed. Some of the offensive Kyogre sets run HP EVs, maybe some bulkier Specs variants. You can argue Ho-Oh outruns it then, but that depends on speed creep.

    Rock Arceus is still the best counter there is, and I already said Earthquake can 2HKO it. Changed Palkia to survive one hit from full health. Leftovers is the main slash so yes.

    Already done with Giratina, I already said it cannot touch Ho-Oh outside or Roar and that still forces Ho-OH to take Stealth Rock damage which is blocked.

    Fixed all the GP Steven did so far.
  8. Theorymon

    Theorymon AHHHH REAL GOOMBAS!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,310
    I'm gonna be posting a bunch of nitpicks tomorrow night, so don't finish the checks yet GP!

    Sorry, shouldn't have taken that nap... anyways, here we go!

    Overview

    -Something that needs to be focused on is that Ho-Oh is one of the most dangerous Sun based Pokemon in the game. ESPECIALLY since even when its raining, Ho-Oh still has that powerful Brave Bird (and Kyogre doesn't like that too!)

    -Another big selling point that should be mentioned is the amazing Special bulk. 106 / 154 for Special bulkiness combined with Ho-Oh's good offenses and Sacred Fire burning stuff to help with its mehish base 90 Defense, Ho-Oh is one HELL of an offensive tank! You can even mention that Ho-Oh takes hits as well as Lugia if you want to put that awesome combination of power and bulk into prospective!

    - I'd mention beating CM Ghost Arceus (assuming no SR) here too, because Ghost Arceus is a fairly common threat.

    -Ho-Oh does NOT check all the new comers in B2W2! Thundurus-T and Landorus-T can hit it hard with Thunder and Stone Edge (neither are common, but you mention Black Kyurem so...), and I wouldn't call getting taking 71-84% from Specs White Kyurem Draco Meteor a good check... I'd just remove that line honestly.
  9. Nexus

    Nexus Day 358: Believe
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Wi-Fi Commissioner

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,762
    So Theorymon if you have nitpicks you know where to find the SCMS we're not gonna put this off any longer, Steven Snype if you can finish your GP check that'd be great.

    EDIT: Theorymon says he's posting his suggestions today so we'll give this till tomorrow, sorry steven.
  10. Theorymon

    Theorymon AHHHH REAL GOOMBAS!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,310
    Sorry, shouldn't have taken that nap... anyways, here we go!

    Overview

    -Something that needs to be focused on is that Ho-Oh is one of the most dangerous Sun based Pokemon in the game. ESPECIALLY since even when its raining, Ho-Oh still has that powerful Brave Bird (and Kyogre doesn't like that too!)

    -Another big selling point that should be mentioned is the amazing Special bulk. 106 / 154 for Special bulkiness combined with Ho-Oh's good offenses and Sacred Fire burning stuff to help with its mehish base 90 Defense, Ho-Oh is one HELL of an offensive tank! You can even mention that Ho-Oh takes hits as well as Lugia if you want to put that awesome combination of power and bulk into prospective!

    - I'd mention beating CM Ghost Arceus (assuming no SR) here too, because Ghost Arceus is a fairly common threat.

    -Ho-Oh does NOT check all the new comers in B2W2! Thundurus-T and Landorus-T can hit it hard with Thunder and Stone Edge (neither are common, but you mention Black Kyurem so...), and I wouldn't call getting taking 71-84% from Specs White Kyurem Draco Meteor a good check... I'd just remove that line honestly.

    Tank

    -Just remove the stuff about Pressure, Pressure should only be mentioned in other options, because there is no reason to use Ho-Oh without regenerator.

    -In AC, move the Leftovers vs Life Orb stuff to it's own paragraph, This is important because the item almost defines the set in some cases! You should also mention Sky Plate here for punishing Ho-Oh with less recoil while giving you a nice Brave Bird boost.

    -Move the Recover mention to AC, and move all the alternate move mentions in AC to their own paragraph.

    -For White Kyurem mentions, I'd be careful about calling Ho-Oh a good check, again, Specs does a TON with Draco Meteor. You can beat Scarf though so I guess you can mention that.

    -In AC, you might actually want to mention Thunder Wave support. I know that seems to contradict the whole "burn stuff with Sacred Fire" motto, but if you manage to paralyze fast and nasty stuff such as Choice Scarf Kyogre or Mewtwo, they will be a much lesser issue for Ho-Oh. Good examples are Groudon and double status Darkrai.

    Physical Sweeper

    -Since you mention Flame Plate, you should probably Sky Plate as well!

    -Another alternate ev spread to mention for the Tailwind version: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe. This is lets you act much like Tank Ho-Oh )thanks lots of extra bulk) when not speed boosting, and Tailwind still gives you enough speed to outspeed Mewtwo.

    Choice Scarf

    -I think you should mention that if you manage to keep Stealth Rock off the field, Regenerator allows Ho-Oh to last a lot longer than most Choice Scarfers, which is a pretty nice selling point!

    -Be careful about using stuff like mixed Palkia to mess with Wobbuffet. Custap means that its much more likely to use Destiny Bond now!

    Counters and Checks

    -Move the mention of Ghosts spin blocking to the first paragraph, since that's related to hazards.
  11. trickroom

    trickroom
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,000
    Fixed and ready for next GP after Steven is done.
  12. lousy918

    lousy918

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Messages:
    325
    u mentioned whirlwind is better left to physically defensive Ho-oh, but there isn't a set o.O
    idk maybe I'm just being dumb
    just copy the set and write some dumb shit
    or remove the mention of physically defensive Ho-oh altogether
  13. trickroom

    trickroom
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,000
    physically defensive ho-oh is already written in another thread. They will be added together later.
  14. Enguarde

    Enguarde Such Misfortune
    is a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    617
    It was written by Poppy, you can check it out here
  15. trickroom

    trickroom
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,000
    The physically defensive and KACAW Mother Fucker sets are completed. GP just need to check the rest. Poppy and Tobes finished their GP checks. I just put them all together so uploading will be easier.

    Ready for GP check
  16. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,587
    diff (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>With a huge base 130 Attack and powerful STAB options in Sacred Fire (which carries an impressive 50% burn rate) and Brave Bird, Ho-Oh can easily put serious hurt on anything that dares to stand up to it. Regenerator increases Ho-Oh's durability, allowing Ho-Oh to function as a bulky pivot. Ho-Oh can even amp up its middling Speed with Flame Charge, potentially sweeping an entire weakened team with its immensely powerful STABs. Ho-Oh is one of the most dangerous Sun sun-(hyphen)based Pokemon in the game,; (semi) even when itsn raining, Ho-Oh still has that powerful Brave Bird to throw around, a move not even Kyogre will enjoy taking. Ho-Oh is not restricted to a specific weather archetype because it counters certain threats such as Fighting Arceus, Ghost Arceus, (AC) and sun teams that, (AC) which often find themselves completely walled by Ho-Oh. 106 / 154 base Special Defense with 106 base HP gives Ho-Oh great special bulk and, (AC) when combined with Ho-Oh's good offenses and Sacred Fire's great burn chance, Ho-Oh ismakes it an amazing offensive tank whothat has equal special bulk withto Great Wall Lugia! Even with such a crippling weakness to the common Stealth Rock, Ho-Oh's amazing qualities allows it to thrive in such athe hostile Uber metagame due to its combination of power and bulk. Unfortunately, Stealth Rock will continue to be Ho-Oh's biggest weakness even with access to Regenerator, as the rainbow bird despises losing 50% of its HP on every switch-in.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Substitute / Earthquake
    move 4: Roost
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 176 Atk / 84 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This Ho-Oh set shrugs off most non-super effective hits while replying with powerful attacks of its own. Unlike most walls, Ho-Oh packs a lot of power, andso it can KO the opponent outright instead of relying on status or phazing moves. Thanks to Ho-Oh's great stat layout, it can wall most special attackers with just 248 HP EVs; the Special Defense EVs just guarantee Ho-Oh's survival against some powerful attacks [maybe move this to AC?]. Most Calm Mind Arceus that lack a super-effective hit againsattack to hit Ho-Oh willth have little hope of breaking past Ho-Oh's massive bulkit. This set also checks many other notable threats, (AC) such as Darkrai, Shaymin-S, Palkia, Reshiram, Latias, Genesect, Dialga, and Tornadus-T.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire and Brave Bird are the main attacks. Sacred Fire's solid burn rate will also deters switch -ins from the likes of Rayquaza orand other powerful physical attackers hoping to take out Ho-Oh. Brave Bird is a powerful STAB move that can be easily thrown around in thea tier where few common Pokemon resists Flying-type moveattacks, easily annihilating Kyogre, Palkia, and Reshiram. Despite the lack of Speed investment,[useless and confusing] Roost lets Ho-Oh stall out defensive Groudon's Stone Edge, and which becomes even easier when Groudon is burned with Sacred Fire. Although Roost makes Ho-Oh vulnerable to Earthquake, most users of thate move will likely bare faster than Ho-Oh anyway, (AC) and Stone Edge from Groudon will still do more damage to a non-Roosting Ho-Oh than Earthquake to a Roosting Ho-Oh. Substitute gives Ho-Oh status protection and eases prediction, especial; it can be set up easily whenbecause Ho-Oh can frequently finds free switch-(hyphen)ins ondue to the many Pokemon whothat can't touch it, (AC) such as Ferrothorn and Blissey.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread gives Ho-Oh a decent amount of power,(RC) while still retaining its high special bulk. +4 Timid Life Orb Darkrai will cannot OHKO this Ho-Oh, Choice Scarf Palkia only has a 3.13% chance to 2HKO with Thunder, and 252+ Dialga's Draco Meteor will top at onlydoes a maximum of 51.56%. Any max Special Attack neutral -nature Arceus will never 2HKO Ho-Oh with a +1 neutral Judgment thanks to Leftovers. A Life Orb can be used over Leftovers, which tradesing longevity for power:; the item allowsecures important OHKOs and 2HKOs that Ho-Oh cannot achieve with Leftovers, such as the almost -guaranteeing thed OHKO on Choice Scarf Kyogre with Brave Bird after Stealth Rock damage. Genesect can never get past Ho-Oh unless it manages to grab a Special Attack boost beforehand and has Thunder or Explosion. Even Kyurem-W will haves trouble killing a full health Ho-Oh, (AC) as only Modest Choice Specs Ice Beam stands a chance to 2HKO, (AC) and Draco Meteor can be outstalled with Roost. Both Latias and Latios are walled by Ho-Oh unless the Latioslatter packs Psyshock, or the weatherrain is favorable toup and them such asy carry Surf in rain. Thunder from Latias barely 2HKOes Ho-Oh, while Brave Bird can easily net a 2HKO or even an OHKO if you are using Life Orb. When using a Life Orb, an alternate spread of 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe can be used for maximum power and optimum bulk. Leftovers is the preferred item, (AC) as Ho-Oh enjoys the extra recovery and it alsothe prevents the recoilion of Brave Bird recoil from wearing down Ho-Oh too quickly.</p>

    <p>Earthquake is an option, (AC) as it rounds out theHo-Oh's coverage superbly, 2HKOing all forms of Zekrom (andeven OHKOing offensive variants after taking damage from Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes), as well as deterring Rock Arceus and the rare Heatran from switching in freely. Whirlwind allows Ho-Oh to become a great phazer, but that is generally better left to physically defensive Ho-Oh, (AC) whoich has more physical bulk.</p>

    <p> If you need Ho-Oh to beat Choice Specs Kyurem-W, using a set with max Special Defense investment is possible, (AC) but Ho-Oh will have to sacrifice a lot of power. Sunny Day can also be used on this set (in the last slot,) to lure in Kyogre, Ho-Oh's most common check, (AC) and turn the tables on it, (AC) but this can only be done on the predicted switch -(hyphen)in or on defensive Kyogre, (AC) whoich usually do not invest in Speed. Ho-Oh's favorite teammates are Groudon and a Rapid Spinner; the former pumps up the power of Sacred Fire, while the latter serves as a means to prevent &mdash;but not guarantee &mdash;Stealth Rock from being up to cripplinge Ho-Oh. This set also really appreciates paralysis support to make up for its low Speed. Grass Arceus can easily deters Ground-types from switching in withanks to its typing, allowing it to easily slslow down a large chunk of the enemy team with Thunder Wave. Dialga, Groudon, Lugia, Kyogre, Jirachi, and Blissey can all also spread paralysis very effectively because, (AC) as they are not common Thunder Wave users. Entry hazards are also recommended, because Ho-Oh can force a lot of switches. Forretress can set up all three entry hazards, and Ho-Oh can easily come in on Fire-type attacks aimed at Forretress and start firing backoff powerful attacks. Excadrill is the best spinner in the tier, (AC) but it should only be paired with Ho-Oh ion a sand team, because stacking Groudon and Excadrill aswith Ho-Oh's partners on the same team makes the team extremely weak to Kyogre. Excadrill can easily switch in on Rock- or Electric-type attacks for Ho-Oh and weaken threats for Ho-Oh, (AC) while Ho-Oh can find many switch -in opportunities on Ground-, Fighting-, (AC) and Fire-type attacks aimed at Excadrill to Substitute. While unreliable, Espeon and Xatu can use their Magic Bounce ability to keep Stealth Rock off the field for some time to support Ho-Oh.</p>

    <p>Forretress and Tentacruel are the only viable partners for Ho-Oh whothat can set up Toxic Spikes. Toxic Spikes, (AC) when combined with Substitute and Roost, can allow Ho-Oh to outstall many threats simply by spamming Substitute and Roost while the hapless foes slowly lose their life from increasingly powerful Poison. For example, Ho-Oh can come in on something that it walls but is faster, such as Choice Scarf Palkia, and set up a Substitute as Palkia faints fromworn down by the Toxic Spikes poison. From there, Ho-Oh can easily net another KO or two while safely behind its baby Rhydon doll. BSubstitute [cute names = bad D:]. However, bear in mind, that you can no longer burn threats when they are affected by Toxic Spikes. Thunder Wave support is also appreciated alned. [though it overlaps with burns, it helps to paralyze fast and nasty stuff such as Choice Scarf Kyogre or Mewtwo. With their reduced Speed, they will be a much lesser issue for Ho-Oh, good users of Thunder Wave are Groudon and Kyogre.already mentioned above]</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Sweeper
    move 1: Flame Charge / Tailwind
    move 2: Sacred Fire
    move 3: Brave Bird
    move 4: Roost / Earthquake
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>One of Ho-Oh's biggest problems wais usually its middling base 90 Speed, (AC) but this problem can be solvmitigated by using Flame Charge or Tailwind to boost its Speed to more acceptable levels. Sunlight support from the likes of Groudon is highly recommended to power up Ho-Oh's STAB Sacred Fire and Flame Charge, and to remove Ho-Oh's weakness to Water-type attacks. Sun also helps reduces Thunder's accuracy to an unreliable 50%, which can be helpful because some threats rely on Thunder to take out Ho-Oh.</p>

    <p>Flame Charge and Tailwind both have their own advantages. Flame Charge's Speed boost will lasts until Ho-Oh switches out, and it also allows Ho-Oh to soften up the fopponent's Ho-Oh check with a light smack before going on the full offensive, m. (period) More importantly, (AC) it can help break Focus Sashes orand Sturdy fromso the likesat one of ForretresHo-Oh's real attacks cand Skarmory KO on then go for next turn [none of theat real attack, using them as setup baitly made sense]. However, Tailwind offers a significantly higher initial Speed boost. For example, Ho-Oh requires a Jolly Nature and 252 Speed EVs just to Speed tie with positive -nature base 90 Speed Pokemon that have a Choice Scarf. However, Ho-Oh, after a single use of Tailwind can outrun max Speed base 108 Pokemon equipped with Choice Scarf while itself running a neutral Speed nature and only 176 Speed EVs after a single use of Tailwind. Tailwind also benefits the entire team; just in caseif Ho-Oh needs to switch out, a counter to your opponent's Ho-Oh check can step in and perform a mini-sweep onf its own using the boosted Speed granted by Tailwind. However, Tailwind only lasts 3three turns after being used, which means Ho-Oh can nevernot sweep for long when a fewmore than three faster threats are still around. Flame Charge is usually the more consistent option, (AC) as the boost stays untill Ho-Oh switches out, (AC) and Ho-Oh can continue boosting its Speed till +6 if possiblewith enough free turns.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire is always the main attack Ho-Oh will be using, and, when backed by STAB and sunlight, it outright OHKOes many Pokemon in the Uber tier, (AC) such as Mewtwo, as well as at least 2HKOing anything that does not resist it. Brave Bird, Ho-Oh's other incredibly potent STAB move of choice, nails Kyogre, Reshiram, and Palkia for assured OHKOs after just Stealth Rock damage. Brave Bird also provides Ho-Oh with a very strong sweeping attack in case the weather is not in its favor, (AC) but the recoil can be huge depending on how much damage it does. Roost rounds out the set brilliantly to, (AC) helping Ho-Oh recover damage incurred from Stealth Rock and Life Orb, as well possibly allowing it to gain multiple Flame Charge boosts or to set up Tailwind repeatedly. While this Ho-Oh is an excellent offensive pPokemon, the loss of bulk is pretty significant and , (AC) soit can no longer wall more powerful threats such as Calm Mind Arceus and Reshiram as reliably because both +1 Judgment and Draco Meteor will OHKO Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock damage. Weaker threats, (AC) such as Shaymin-S and Darkrai, (AC) can still be checked though. Although Fire- and Flying-type STABs are a good combination, it willthey leave Ho-Oh walled by Zekrom, Heatran (it needs Toxic or Hidden Power Rock to beat Ho-Oh one on one, however), and Rock-type Pokemon. Earthquake solves this problem by OHKOing Zekrom after it takes damage from Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes, always OHKOing Heatran, and 2HKOing at worst all commony Rock-type Pokemon not named Solrock, Lunatone, or Aerodactyl, all Pokemon unfit for Ubers play[superfluous]. However, without Roost, Ho-Oh will becomeis extremely vulnerable to Stealth Rock, so solid Rapid Spin support will beis necessary with Earthquake.</p>

    [move to AC]

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]


    <p>The EVs are fairly simple. Maximum Attack is wantused to hit as hard as possible, and the Speed EVs enable Ho-Oh to hit 418 Speed after a Flame Charge, which lets it outpace everything below Choice Scarf Heatran. If using Tailwind, it is best to run 176 Speed EVs, which will allow Ho-Oh to outspeed Choice Scarf Terrakion with Tailwind up. Adamant is preferred because it affords Ho-Oh a large amount of much-needed power. However, Jolly allows Ho-Oh to outspeed Deoxys-A and tie with other Choice Scarf-wielding base 90 Speed Pokemon, (AC) such as Timid Reshiram, (AC) after a Flame Charge boost and Jolly Max Speed Excadrill in the sand after a Tailwind. If you rather likewant to takinge advantage of Ho-Oh's bulk, a spread of 140 HP / 176 Atk / 192 Spe can be used with an Adamant nature to outrun everything up to Mewtwo after a Flame Charge boost, (AC) but thatis comes at the price of losing some power and Speed. Flame Plate is possible over Life Orb to power up Sacred Fire and Flame Charge if you hate the recoil. Sky Plate can be used to 2HKO bulky Kyogre and Giratina-O with Brave Bird. An alternate EV spread of 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe lets you act like Ttank Ho-Oh with the ability to support the team through Tailwind, and it still gives youing Ho-Oh enough sSpeed to outspeed everything up to Mewtwo.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]


    <p>Groudon, with its great bulk and everlasting sunlight courtesy of Drought, fulfills Ho-Oh's sunlight needs perfectly. Groudon can also set up Stealth Rock to help Ho-Oh nab some important OHKOs and is capable of beating many pPokemon whothat checks Ho-Oh, (AC) such as Terrakion and Zekrom. Forretress's good physical Defense and many resistances allow it to fulfill the Rapid Spinning role perfectly as well, and; (semi) it can even set up Spikes to facilitate Ho-Oh's sweep. While attempting a successful Rapid Spin is hard in Ubers, Forretress does way more than that, (AC) as it can also help tank Outrages aimed at Ho-Oh and check certain threats, (AC) such as Terrakion with Gyro Ball. If you just wish to delay the setting up of Stealth Rock on your side of the field, Deoxys-S with Taunt is a good choice, (AC) as it can achieve that fairly easily thanks to its high Speed and can set up its own Stealth Rock of you own. Magic Bounce users can also delay the opponent from setting up Stealth Rock on your field. Sadly, the two pPokemon with thate ability are awful and are easy to KO, (AC) making them mediocre partners.</p>

    <p>The best counter to this set is Rock Arceus, as it packs resistances to both of Ho-Oh's STAB moves, is bulky enough to take an Earthquake, and can easily destroy Ho-Oh with one Judgment. Ho-Oh also isn't a fan of Kyogre and Zekrom, as the formers disposes of Ho-Oh's beloved sunlight and the latter can handle one hit from Ho-Oh and OHKO it back with Bolt Strike. Defensive Groudon can also be an annoyance to this set, (AC) as Sacred Fire only 2HKOes it, while Stone Edge will OHKOes Ho-Oh if you failed to burn itGroudon. Rock-types are rare in Ubers, (AC) and the only semi-common ones are Tyranitar and Terrakion, (AC) [Rock Arceus ?_?] whoich are easily checked by Groudon. Thankfully, Groudon's bulk and very powerful STAB Earthquake make it an excellent counter to Zekrom, opposing Groudon, (AC) and Rock-types, including Rock Arceus. Palkia can easily come in on Kyogre's powerful Water-type strikes and defeat it with Thunder. Grass Arceus is capable of checking pretty much all of Ho-Oh's counters, either crippling them with status or setting up on them with Calm Mind. Latias can also help defeat Kyogre and Terrakion with her powerful Grass Knot.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Punishment / Sleep Talk
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Tailwind and Flame Charge can boost Ho-Oh's Speed, those require a turn to beof set-up. With Choice Scarf, Ho-Oh becomes a great revenge killer and late-game cleaner with its powerful attacks and solid bulk. Although Ho-Oh does not outrun most opposing Choice Scarf users, it is still goodfast enough to outrun all Pokemonything up to Mewtwo and positive -(hyphen)nature Deoxys-A if you choose to go with a Jolly nature.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire, even without a Life Orb boost, is still a ridiculously powerful attack in the sunlight that will maims anything that does not resist it. Brave Bird also stands as a very powerful secondary STAB that 2HKOes almost anyll Kyogre and Palkia. Only Bold Kyogre has a chance of avoiding the 2HKO after Stealth Rock damage, (AC) and Scald does not even OHKO Ho-Oh in return. Earthquake is there to cover thingsPokemon such as Zekrom, Terrakion, Heatran, Tyranitar, (AC) and Reshiram, (AC) as well as getsting a harder hit on Dialga outside of sun and Reshiram. However, getting locked inton Earthquake is risky due to the sheer number of Flying-types and Levitatorse Pokemon in the Uber environment, so exercise caution before going ahead with the attack. Punishment is chosen as the last move to KO setup sweepers such as Calm Mind Mewtwo, Calm Mind Giratina-O, and Calm Mind Ghost Arceus. As Punishment increases in power as theyse Pokemon gain Calm Mind boosts, Ho-Oh can easily use Punishment to save your team from utter ruin if the enemy Calm Mind user has acquired multiple boosts. Sleep Talk lets Ho-Oh switch in on Darkrai and either; (semi) Brave Bird orand Sacred Fire willcan KO Darkrai after Stealth Rock damage.</p> [moved the rest to AC]

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>
    The EVs helplet Ho-Oh outrun everything up to neutral -(hyphen)nature Deoxys-A and maximize power because this set needs all the power it can get. With an Adamant nature, Sacred Fire in the sun is even more powerful than Zekrom's Bolt Strike. If you manage to keep Stealth Rock off the field, Regenerator allows Ho-Oh to last a lot longer than most Choice Scarf users.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]


    <p>Once again, aAny teammate from the previous sets will also work well with this one. However, due to this Ho-Oh's considerably lower power, it can be more easily walled, (AC) as even defensive Groudon willis not be 2HKOed by anything of Ho-Oh's moves and Wobbuffet can trap it with Shadow Tag and Counter it to oblivion as long as it does not switch in on Sacred Fire in the sun. [reword this sentence, it's super wordy] Choice Band Zekrom is able to stomp all over Kyogre with its powerful STAB Bolt Strike, and can also weaken Wobbuffet to the point where it can no longer trap Ho-Oh and live. Mixed attackers, (AC) such as Palkia and Dialga, (AC) can bluff a Choice Scarf by holding an item such as Lustrous Orb or Expert Belt to lure Wobbuffet in. As it Counters or Mirror Coats,(RC) expecting a physical or special attack, Wobbuffet will quickly find itself being wiped off the face of the planet from an attack on the opposite side. However, Custap Berry allows Wobbuffet to somewhat bypass this with a faster Destiny Bond, (AC) although it has to be in the right HP range to work. Toxic Spikes from Forretress also badly mess up Wobbuffet. Using the sheer power that Pokemon such as Choice Specs Kyurem-W and Rayquaza possess can also help to eliminate Wobbuffet.</p>

    <p>This Ho-Oh set has no form of recovery outside of Regenerator, so Rapid Spin support from Forretress is a must. Using Wish support is also a good idea to keep as both an extra defense against, (AC) as it gives Ho-Oh more switch-in opportunities, especially when Stealth Rock and to help Ho-Oh switch into resisted attacks.is up. [reworded the sentence because it was awkward] Blissey is a notable Wish user, (AC) as it can pass Wishes so enormous that they will often fully heal the rainbow phoenix.Ho-Oh. [no cute names -.-] Jirachi can also use Wish effectively, and has access to U-turn, great bulk, (AC) and numerous resistances, including a resistance to Rock-type attacks. If you are using this iHo-Oh on a sand team, Excadrill can be a great partner thanks to its solid power deterring Ghost-types from switching in and access to Rapid Spin. However, using this iHo-Oh on a sun team is best to power up Sacred Fire's power, (AC) and Groudon itself makes a great partner to Ho-Oh.</p>

    [SET]
    name: KACAW MOTHERFUCKER (Choice Band)
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Sleep Talk / Punishment
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Ho-Oh's greatest weakness has historically been Stealth Rock, which has dissuaded the use of Choice items on it. However, with Regenerator, (AC) Ho-Oh is able to switch in and out more freely, allowing it to wield the fearsome power of a Choice Band with far less risk. With a Choice Band, Ho-Oh becomes incredibly difficult to switch into; while a Life Orb also grants a comparable level of power, Choice Band's lack of recoil is appealing&mdash;even with Regenerator, Ho-Oh does not want to deal with additional passive damage when Stealth Rock is up. Choice Band-boosted Sacred Fire has amazing power in the sun, doing things such as OHKOing Arceus and Dialga after Stealth Rock and providing a comfortable 2HKO on physically defensive Groudon. It also ensures that Ho-Oh can take lead Deoxys-S down to its Focus Sash and&mdash;due to the chance of burn&mdash;limit Deoxys-S to one layer of hazards 47.5% of the time. Brave Bird is also incredibly powerful, OHKOing Kyogre and Palkia with no prior damage. It also 2HKOes Giratina-O, Forretress, and most physically defensive Arceus formes, and can even nab(RC) as well as a 2HKO on physically defensive Giratina with Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes. Earthquake covers Tyranitar, Rock Arceus, Kabutops, Omastar, Heatran, and Dialga in rain. Sleep Talk allows Ho-Oh to providbe a relatively safe switch-in to Darkrai's dreaded Dark Void, while Punishment can be used to smash Calm Mind users weak to it, such as Ghost Arceus, Giratina-O, and Latias.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Heavy HP investment gives Ho-Oh more bulk and makes the use of Brave Bird much less risky. Alternatively, maximum Speed can be used to get the drop on as many other base 90 Pokemon as possible, but the loss in bulk is noticeable. Ho-Oh's movepool is quite sparse, so what's listed here is about as good as it gets. Very niche options for the fourth slot include Aerial Ace to guarantee a connection against an Evasion booster,(RC) and Roost to help deal with residual damage if a free turn is presented&mdash;this is of course very risky on a Choice-locked Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Rapid Spin support is actually more important for this set than sunlight. Unlike other sets, which have access to recovery, this Ho-Oh will be switching out often and relying on Regenerator to keep itself alive. Forretress can Rapid Spin while also providing entry hazards and switch-in opportunities with Volt Switch. Excadrill can switch into Zekrom fairly safely,(RC) and can provide Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock support as well. Groudon is also an important supporter for this set&mdash;while the raw power of Brave Bird allows this set to function even in rain, Ho-Oh greatly appreciates boosted Sacred Fires and a neutrality to Water-type moves. Groudon can provide Stealth Rock as well, which makes Multiscale Lugia easier to handle and ensures a few important OHKOes and 2HKOes. Offensively, Extreme Killer Arceus is an excellent complement to this set, as is Rock Polish Groudon. Both greatly enjoy this set's ability to cripple opposing Giratina and Groudon, and Sacred Fire's burn rate can grant easy set-up opportunities for them. Ho-Oh is also an excellent switch-in to Choice Scarf Genesect, something which can interfere with a weakened Extreme Killer Arceus's sweep. Defensively, partners that can switch into Kyogre are very important; Latias and Palkia are good examples.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Substitute / Whirlwind
    move 4: Roost
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Impish
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Ho-Oh's Defense mayight not seem like much, but when fully invested and with the assistance of Sacred Fire burns, the rainbow phoenix can take its fair share of physical abuse. This Ho-Oh aims to spread burns through Sacred Fire and act as an excellent pivot through Regenerator. Full investment in Defense allows Ho-Oh to take a myriad of physical attacks much more comfortably; Extreme Killer Arceus's +2 ExtremeSpeed, Rayquaza's +1 Outrage, Mewtwo's + 1 Psystrike, and Ssupport Groudon's Stone Edge all fail to OHKO.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire is needed to spread burns, and; (semi) Brave Bird is the other obligatory STAB attack that still, (AC) dealsing respectable damage, even with minimumal Attack investment. Substitute is the primary option to ease prediction and protect Ho-Oh from status. Earthquake can also be used to hit Heatran and the Rock-types that plague Ho-Oh. Whirlwind is another option to rack up hazard damage and scout switches, and; (semi) it is especially effective because Ho-Oh forces out a lot of Pokemon. Roost gives Ho-Oh some much needed longevity outside of switching out repeatedly. Roost can be used with a faster spread to absorb mitigated Ice-, Rock-, and Electric-type attacks.</p>

    [moved to AC]

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is simple, (AC) as it maximizesing Defense and maintains an odd HP number to round down Stealth Rock damage. The leftover EVs are placed in Attack to give a little kick to Sacred Fire and Brave Bird. Combined with Regenerator, this Ho-Oh can switch endlessly into both Giratina Fformes, only taking significant damage from invested Giratina-O's Outrage. Ho-Oh still has massive Special Defense, meaning it can still perform its normal duties of switching into the powerful special attacks thrown about in Ubers.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Like all other Ho-Oh sets, the removal of Stealth Rock is greatly appreciated; Forretress, Tentacruel, and Excadrill are all excellent spinners in Ubers. Groudon isn't nearly as necessary for this set as other Ho-Oh sets, as Sacred Fire's primary job is to spread burns. A physically defensive Ghost-type Pokemon, such as RestTalk Giratina-O, pairs excellently with this Ho-Oh, absorbing the weak attacks of burned Pokemon and phazing with Dragon Tail. Ferrothorn is also a great partner to this set, as it handles the majority of the Pokemon commonly found on rain teams as wend wall as walling Choice Scarf Zekrom. Latias, Palkia, Chansey, and Blissey also make for great defensive partners, absorbing the few strong special attacks that Ho-Oh can't.</p>

    <p>This set still fears rain-boosted Water-type attacks from Pokemon such as Kyogre and Palkia, in addition to Thunders thrown around, although those willlatter does not usually KO. Stone Edge from any offensively -(hyphen)inclined Pokemon will still KO Ho-Oh, although defensive Groudons has a chance not to. Jolly Choice Scarf Zekrom's Bolt Strike has a chance not to KO, but the KO with Adamant is still guaranteed.<p>

    <p>Thunder Wave can be used over one of the attacking options, as it is very annoying for opposing Ho-Oh,(RC) and can cripple other threats that rely on their sSpeed, such as over -(hyphen)eager Choice Scarf Kyogre looking to switch in on Sacred Fire. Toxic is also viable, crippling Lugia,(RC) and Arceus Rock, two of Ho-Oh's greatest checks, but they don't exactly appreciate Thunder Wave either.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Recover is an alternativeoption over Roost if you desperately need to keep Ho-Oh's immunity to Ground-type attacks at all times. Hippowdon is the only notable Earthquake user whothat is always slower than Ho-Oh, (AC) but the hippit [no cute names grrr...] can easily be burned and walled anyway. Ho-Oh can utilize any of Reflect, Light Screen, and/or Toxic to become a very good staller with Pressure, (AC) but that role is better left to Lugia, (AC) whoich has greater physical Defense and Speed. Ho-Oh is also a good spreader of paralysis with Thunder Wave and, (AC) so the move can be used on defensive sets, (AC) but itHo-Oh is better off killing things directly. Ground-type Pokemon, (AC) such as Groudon and Garchomp will, (AC) rarely switch into Ho-Oh due to the risk of getting burned by Sacred Fire. Safeguard can also be used to give Ho-Oh status protection, (AC) but Substitute is usually the better option, (AC) as it also stops Leech Seed. Finally, Ho-Oh can use Calm Mind or Choice Specs and run a decent special attacking set with its good base 110 Special Attack, but it's generally outclassed by Reshiram in that respect due to Reshiram's much higher Special Attack and access to STAB Dragon-type attacks. Thunder seems like a great move to KO Kyogre, (AC) but Brave Bird will actually does more damage to most Kyogre due to itKyogre's Defense being much lower physicthan its Special Defense and Ho-Oh's high Attack stat.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ho-Oh is extremely hard to counter due to its high bulk, powerful attacks, (AC) and the coin flipthreat of dealing a burn as well. The best way to keep Ho-Oh in check, isn't a Pokemon at all,; (semi) it is the move Stealth Rock as it. Stealth Rock limits Ho-Oh's bulklongevity by stripping off 50% of its health every time it switches in. Even with Regenerator, Ho-Oh fears Stealth Rock more than anything else. Keeping a sturdy Ghost-type such as Giratina-O or Ghost Arceus is recommended to ensure Stealth Rock isn't spun away.
    </p>

    <p>Kyogre is by far the most common way to check Ho-Oh because of Drizzle canceling out Ho-Oh's beloved sunlight and Kyogre's immense power. A full power Water Spout from the giKyogre cant blue horse will easily drown the rainbow phoenixHo-Oh regardless of the phoenix'its EVs. While surprising, specially defensive Ho-Oh actually stands a chance of surviving one Surf from non-Choice Specs Kyogre. HoweAdditionally, offensiver, Kyogre does not enjoy takingis 2HKOed by Brave Birds on the switch in because. [all that will 2HKO offensive sets easily.ording is so unnecessary and CUTE NAMES -.-] Bold Kyogre avoids the 2HKO from Brave Bird, (AC) but Scald does not even OHKO in return, (AC) making it a shaky check. The reason Kyogre is so widely used to counter Ho-Oh is because it is not affecan counteracted by Ho-Oh's most common partner, Groudon. Most of Ho-Oh's checks are defeated by Groudon, (AC) but Kyogre easily OHKOes both with its high-powered Water-type attacks, making it the most consistent check.</p>

    <p>Rock Arceus is probably the closest thing Ho-Oh has to a true counter. It resists both Sacred Fire and Brave Bird, has the bulk to take multiple hits, and can OHKO Ho-Oh with a swift Judgment. However, Rock Arceus really hates switching in on Earthquake repeatedly, (AC) as that willit 2HKOes, especially in conjunction with burn damage. Zekrom also resists both of Ho-Oh's STABs, has high Defense, (AC) and can easily fell it with Bolt Strike. However, Zekrom loathes a possible burn, (AC) and a Life Orb Earthquake will almost OHKOes it. Heatran is immune to Sacred Fire and burn,(RC) and resists Brave Bird but is OHKOed by Earthquake and cannot do much to Ho-Oh in return besides Toxic. Palkia quadruple resists Sacred Fire and can take one Brave Bird from full health, (AC) but even though it possesses STAB Water-type attacks, Ho-Oh actually walls Palkia in the sunlight unless it carries Stone Edge. Outside of sun, Palkia can easily 2HKO Ho-Oh with Surf, and Stone Edge is a must if you rely on Palkia to check Ho-Oh. Power Gem does not even come close to OHKOing Ho-Oh. Giratina is one of the few walls capable of soaking up Ho-Oh's attacks somewhat comfortably, but it cannot do much in return besides phazinge, (AC) as Ho-Oh can avoid Toxic with Substitute. Physically Ddefensive Giratina-O is not 2HKOed by Brave Bird and can 2HKO Ho-Oh back with Outrage, (AC) but an untimely burn will messes it up. Rayquaza also outspeeds Ho-Oh and can Outrage it into oblivion, but Rayquaza can only really come in on Earthquake, (AC) as it cannot risk eating a burn or Brave Bird. Lugia can cripple Ho-Oh with a faster Toxic, and(AC) can soften hits with Reflect, (AC) and stall itHo-Oh out with Roost and Pressure. However, Lugia willdoes not enjoy taking repeated Sacred Fires in the sun, (AC) especially whenbecause Lugia is likely to be burned as well. Lugia is also capable of forcing out Ho-Oh with Whirlwind but cannot deal real damage outside of Toxic. A fast Choice Band Groudon can survive at least one attack and OHKO Ho-Oh with Stone Edge, (AC) even after a burn. Tyranitar resists both of Ho-Oh's STABs and has a powerful Stone Edge to OHKO back, (AC) but it can risks getting stalled out by Substitute if Stone Edge misses,(RC) and is extremely vulnerable to being burned. Kyurem-B does not resist anything of Ho-Oh's common attacks but is faster than it and bulky enough to take one hit and OHKO back with Fusion Bolt. Hippowdon can take repeated hits thanks to Slack Off, set up Stealth Rock, (AC) and Whirlwind the phoenixHo-Oh out, (AC) but it fails to do any real damage to Ho-Oh.</p>

    <p>Mewtwo can OHKO Ho-Oh with Psystrike after Stealth Rock damage, (AC) although it cannot switch in safely on any move besides Roost. While it is a rather strange proposition [weird is the wrong word to use here], a defensive Fire Arceus with Stone Edge is immune to burn and can KO Ho-Oh in one hit, (AC) making it one of the best albeit niche counters to Ho-Oh. Kabutops quadruple resists Sacred Fire and is only 3HKOed by Brave Bird, (AC) so it can switch in on one hit, and OHKO slower Ho-Oh sets with Stone Edge, (AC) but Earthquake willcan smash the shellfishit to pieces, (AC) so it must be wary of switching in. Reshiram with Stone Edge can turn the tables on Ho-Oh, as it does not fear burns and or Sacred Fires, (AC) while Stone Edge will OHKO the phoenixes Ho-Oh. Almost anything faster than Ho-Oh that has a Rock-type attacks, such as Choice Scarf Garchomp or Terrakion, (AC) can easily revenge kill it with Stone Edge.</p>

    c/p with comments (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>With a huge base 130 Attack and powerful STAB options in Sacred Fire (which carries an impressive 50% burn rate) and Brave Bird, Ho-Oh can easily put serious hurt on anything that dares to stand up to it. Regenerator increases Ho-Oh's durability, allowing Ho-Oh to function as a bulky pivot. Ho-Oh can even amp up its middling Speed with Flame Charge, potentially sweeping an entire weakened team with its immensely powerful STABs. Ho-Oh is one of the most dangerous sun-based Pokemon in the game; even when in rain, Ho-Oh still has a powerful Brave Bird to throw around, a move not even Kyogre will enjoy taking. Ho-Oh is not restricted to a specific weather archetype because it counters certain threats such as Fighting Arceus, Ghost Arceus, and sun teams, which often find themselves completely walled by Ho-Oh. 154 base Special Defense with 106 base HP gives Ho-Oh great special bulk and, when combined with Ho-Oh's good offenses and Sacred Fire's great burn chance, makes it an amazing offensive tank that has equal special bulk to Great Wall Lugia! Even with a crippling weakness to the common Stealth Rock, Ho-Oh's amazing qualities allow it to thrive in the hostile Uber metagame due to its combination of power and bulk. Unfortunately, Stealth Rock will continue to be Ho-Oh's biggest weakness even with access to Regenerator, as the rainbow bird despises losing 50% of its HP on every switch-in.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Substitute / Earthquake
    move 4: Roost
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 176 Atk / 84 SpD

    <p>This Ho-Oh set shrugs off most non-super effective hits while replying with powerful attacks of its own. Unlike most walls, Ho-Oh packs a lot of power, so it can KO the opponent outright instead of relying on status or phazing moves. Thanks to Ho-Oh's great stat layout, it can wall most special attackers with just 248 HP EVs; the Special Defense EVs just guarantee Ho-Oh's survival against some powerful attacks. [maybe move this to AC ?_?] Most Calm Mind Arceus that lack a super-effective attack to hit Ho-Oh with have little hope of breaking past it. This set also checks many other notable threats, such as Darkrai, Shaymin-S, Palkia, Reshiram, Latias, Genesect, Dialga, and Tornadus-T.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire and Brave Bird are the main attacks. Sacred Fire's solid burn rate deters switch-ins from the likes of Rayquaza and other powerful physical attackers hoping to take out Ho-Oh. Brave Bird is a powerful STAB move that can be easily thrown around in a tier where few common Pokemon resist Flying-type attacks, easily annihilating Kyogre, Palkia, and Reshiram. Roost lets Ho-Oh stall out defensive Groudon's Stone Edge, which becomes even easier when Groudon is burned with Sacred Fire. Although Roost makes Ho-Oh vulnerable to Earthquake, most users of the move are faster than Ho-Oh anyway, and Stone Edge from Groudon will still do more damage to a non-Roosting Ho-Oh than Earthquake to a Roosting Ho-Oh. Substitute gives Ho-Oh status protection and eases prediction; it can be set up easily because Ho-Oh frequently finds free switch-ins due to the many Pokemon that can't touch it, such as Ferrothorn and Blissey.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread gives Ho-Oh a decent amount of power while still retaining its high special bulk. +4 Timid Life Orb Darkrai cannot OHKO this Ho-Oh, Choice Scarf Palkia only has a 3.13% chance to 2HKO with Thunder, and 252+ Dialga's Draco Meteor does a maximum of 51.56%. Any max Special Attack neutral-nature Arceus will never 2HKO Ho-Oh with a +1 neutral Judgment thanks to Leftovers. A Life Orb can be used over Leftovers, trading longevity for power; the item secures important OHKOs and 2HKOs that Ho-Oh cannot achieve with Leftovers, such as the almost-guaranteed OHKO on Choice Scarf Kyogre with Brave Bird after Stealth Rock damage. Genesect can never get past Ho-Oh unless it manages to grab a Special Attack boost beforehand and has Thunder or Explosion. Even Kyurem-W has trouble killing a full health Ho-Oh, as only Modest Choice Specs Ice Beam stands a chance to 2HKO, and Draco Meteor can be outstalled with Roost. Both Latias and Latios are walled by Ho-Oh unless the latter packs Psyshock or rain is up and they carry Surf. Thunder from Latias barely 2HKOes Ho-Oh, while Brave Bird can easily net a 2HKO or even an OHKO if you are using Life Orb. When using a Life Orb, an alternate spread of 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe can be used for maximum power and optimum bulk. Leftovers is the preferred item, as Ho-Oh enjoys the extra recovery and the prevention of Brave Bird recoil from wearing down Ho-Oh too quickly.</p>

    <p>Earthquake is an option, as it rounds out Ho-Oh's coverage superbly, 2HKOing all forms of Zekrom (even OHKOing offensive variants after damage from Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes) as well as deterring Rock Arceus and the rare Heatran from switching in freely. Whirlwind allows Ho-Oh to become a great phazer, but that is generally better left to physically defensive Ho-Oh, which has more physical bulk.</p>

    <p> If you need Ho-Oh to beat Choice Specs Kyurem-W, using a set with max Special Defense investment is possible, but Ho-Oh will have to sacrifice a lot of power. Sunny Day can also be used on this set (in the last slot) to lure in Kyogre, Ho-Oh's most common check, and turn the tables on it, but this can only be done on the predicted switch-in or on defensive Kyogre, which usually do not invest in Speed. Ho-Oh's favorite teammates are Groudon and a Rapid Spinner; the former pumps up the power of Sacred Fire, while the latter serves as a means to prevent&mdash;but not guarantee&mdash;Stealth Rock from being up to cripple Ho-Oh. This set also really appreciates paralysis support to make up for its low Speed. Grass Arceus deters Ground-types from switching in with its typing, allowing it to slow down a large chunk of the enemy team with Thunder Wave. Dialga, Groudon, Lugia, Kyogre, Jirachi, and Blissey can also spread paralysis very effectively, as they are not common Thunder Wave users. Entry hazards are also recommended because Ho-Oh can force a lot of switches. Forretress can set up all three entry hazards, and Ho-Oh can easily come in on Fire-type attacks aimed at Forretress and start firing off powerful attacks. Excadrill is the best spinner in the tier, but it should only be paired with Ho-Oh on a sand team, as stacking Groudon and Excadrill with Ho-Oh makes the team extremely weak to Kyogre. Excadrill can easily switch in on Rock- or Electric-type attacks for Ho-Oh and weaken threats for Ho-Oh, while Ho-Oh can find many switch-in opportunities on Ground-, Fighting-, and Fire-type attacks aimed at Excadrill. While unreliable, Espeon and Xatu can use their Magic Bounce ability to keep Stealth Rock off the field for some time to support Ho-Oh.</p>

    <p>Forretress and Tentacruel are the only viable partners for Ho-Oh that can set up Toxic Spikes. Toxic Spikes, when combined with Substitute and Roost, can allow Ho-Oh to outstall many threats simply by spamming Substitute and Roost. For example, Ho-Oh can come in on something that it walls but is faster, such as Choice Scarf Palkia, and set up a Substitute as Palkia is worn down by the Toxic poison. From there, Ho-Oh can net another KO or two while safely behind its Substitute. However, bear in mind that you can no longer burn threats when they are poisoned.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Sweeper
    move 1: Flame Charge / Tailwind
    move 2: Sacred Fire
    move 3: Brave Bird
    move 4: Roost / Earthquake
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>One of Ho-Oh's biggest problems is usually its middling base 90 Speed, but this can be mitigated by using Flame Charge or Tailwind to boost its Speed to more acceptable levels. Sun support from Groudon is highly recommended to power up Ho-Oh's STAB Sacred Fire and Flame Charge and to remove Ho-Oh's weakness to Water-type attacks. Sun also reduces Thunder's accuracy to an unreliable 50%, which can be helpful because some threats rely on Thunder to take out Ho-Oh.</p>

    <p>Flame Charge and Tailwind both have their own advantages. Flame Charge's Speed boost lasts until Ho-Oh switches out and allows Ho-Oh to soften up the foe with a light smack before going on the full offensive. More importantly, it can break Focus Sashes and Sturdy so that one of Ho-Oh's real attacks can KO on the next turn [none of that really made sense]. However, Tailwind offers a significantly higher initial Speed boost. For example, Ho-Oh requires a Jolly Nature and 252 Speed EVs just to Speed tie with positive-nature base 90 Speed Pokemon that have a Choice Scarf. However, Ho-Oh can outrun max Speed base 108 Pokemon equipped with Choice Scarf while itself running a neutral nature and only 176 Speed EVs after a single use of Tailwind. Tailwind also benefits the entire team; if Ho-Oh needs to switch out, a counter to your opponent's Ho-Oh check can step in and perform a mini-sweep of its own using the boosted Speed granted by Tailwind. However, Tailwind only lasts three turns after being used, which means Ho-Oh cannot sweep for long when more than three faster threats are still around. Flame Charge is the more consistent option, as the boost stays until Ho-Oh switches out, and Ho-Oh can continue boosting its Speed till +6 with enough free turns.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire is always the main attack Ho-Oh will be using and, when backed by STAB and sunlight, outright OHKOes many Pokemon in the Uber tier, such as Mewtwo, as well as at least 2HKOing anything that does not resist it. Brave Bird, Ho-Oh's other incredibly potent STAB move of choice, nails Kyogre, Reshiram, and Palkia for assured OHKOs after just Stealth Rock damage. Brave Bird also provides Ho-Oh with a very strong sweeping attack in case the weather is not in its favor, but the recoil can be huge depending on how much damage it does. Roost rounds out the set brilliantly, helping Ho-Oh recover damage incurred from Stealth Rock and Life Orb, as well possibly allowing it to gain multiple Flame Charge boosts or to set up Tailwind repeatedly. While this Ho-Oh is an excellent offensive Pokemon, the loss of bulk is pretty significant, soit can no longer wall more powerful threats such as Calm Mind Arceus and Reshiram as reliably because both +1 Judgment and Draco Meteor OHKO Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock damage. Weaker threats, such as Shaymin-S and Darkrai, can still be checked though. Although Fire- and Flying-type STABs are a good combination, they leave Ho-Oh walled by Zekrom, Heatran (it needs Toxic or Hidden Power Rock to beat Ho-Oh one on one, however), and Rock-type Pokemon. Earthquake solves this problem by OHKOing Zekrom after it takes damage from Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes, always OHKOing Heatran, and 2HKOing at worst all common Rock-type Pokemon. However, without Roost, Ho-Oh is extremely vulnerable to Stealth Rock, so solid Rapid Spin support is necessary with Earthquake.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs are fairly simple. Maximum Attack is used to hit as hard as possible, and the Speed EVs enable Ho-Oh to hit 418 Speed after a Flame Charge, which lets it outpace everything below Choice Scarf Heatran. If using Tailwind, it is best to run 176 Speed EVs, which allow Ho-Oh to outspeed Choice Scarf Terrakion with Tailwind up. Adamant is preferred because it affords Ho-Oh a large amount of much-needed power. However, Jolly allows Ho-Oh to outspeed Deoxys-A and tie with Choice Scarf-wielding base 90 Speed Pokemon, such as Timid Reshiram, after a Flame Charge boost and Jolly Max Speed Excadrill in the sand after a Tailwind. If you want to take advantage of Ho-Oh's bulk, a spread of 140 HP / 176 Atk / 192 Spe can be used with an Adamant nature to outrun everything up to Mewtwo after a Flame Charge boost, but this comes at the price of losing some power and Speed. Flame Plate is possible over Life Orb to power up Sacred Fire and Flame Charge if you hate the recoil. Sky Plate can be used to 2HKO bulky Kyogre and Giratina-O with Brave Bird. An alternate EV spread of 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe lets you act like tank Ho-Oh with the ability to support the team through Tailwind, still giving Ho-Oh enough Speed to outspeed everything up to Mewtwo.</p>

    <p>Groudon, with its great bulk and everlasting sunlight courtesy of Drought, fulfills Ho-Oh's sunlight needs perfectly. Groudon can also set up Stealth Rock to help Ho-Oh nab some important OHKOs and is capable of beating many Pokemon that check Ho-Oh, such as Terrakion and Zekrom. Forretress's good Defense and many resistances allow it to fulfill the Rapid Spinning role perfectly; it can even set up Spikes to facilitate Ho-Oh's sweep. While attempting a successful Rapid Spin is hard in Ubers, Forretress does way more than that, as it can also help tank Outrages aimed at Ho-Oh and check certain threats, such as Terrakion with Gyro Ball. If you just wish to delay the setting up of Stealth Rock on your side of the field, Deoxys-S with Taunt is a good choice, as it can achieve that fairly easily thanks to its high Speed and can set up its own Stealth Rock. Magic Bounce users can also delay the opponent from setting up Stealth Rock. Sadly, the two Pokemon with the ability are awful and are easy to KO, making them mediocre partners.</p>

    <p>The best counter to this set is Rock Arceus, as it packs resistances to both of Ho-Oh's STAB moves, is bulky enough to take an Earthquake, and can easily destroy Ho-Oh with one Judgment. Ho-Oh also isn't a fan of Kyogre and Zekrom, as the former disposes of Ho-Oh's beloved sunlight and the latter can handle one hit from Ho-Oh and OHKO it back with Bolt Strike. Defensive Groudon can also be an annoyance to this set, as Sacred Fire only 2HKOes it, while Stone Edge OHKOes Ho-Oh if you fail to burn Groudon. Rock-types are rare in Ubers, and the only semi-common ones are Tyranitar and Terrakion, [Rock Arceus ?_?] which are easily checked by Groudon. Thankfully, Groudon's bulk and very powerful STAB Earthquake make it an excellent counter to Zekrom, opposing Groudon, and Rock-types, including Rock Arceus. Palkia can easily come in on Kyogre's powerful Water-type strikes and defeat it with Thunder. Grass Arceus is capable of checking pretty much all of Ho-Oh's counters, either crippling them with status or setting up on them with Calm Mind. Latias can also help defeat Kyogre and Terrakion with her powerful Grass Knot.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Punishment / Sleep Talk
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Tailwind and Flame Charge can boost Ho-Oh's Speed, those require a turn of set-up. With Choice Scarf, Ho-Oh becomes a great revenge killer and late-game cleaner with its powerful attacks and solid bulk. Although Ho-Oh does not outrun most opposing Choice Scarf users, it is still fast enough to outrun all Pokemon up to Mewtwo and positive-nature Deoxys-A if you choose to go with a Jolly nature.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire, even without a Life Orb boost, is still a ridiculously powerful attack in the sunlight that maims anything that does not resist it. Brave Bird also stands as a very powerful secondary STAB that 2HKOes almost all Kyogre and Palkia. Only Bold Kyogre has a chance of avoiding the 2HKO after Stealth Rock damage, and Scald does not even OHKO Ho-Oh in return. Earthquake is there to cover Pokemon such as Zekrom, Terrakion, Heatran, Tyranitar, and Reshiram, as well as getting a harder hit on Dialga outside of sun. However, getting locked into Earthquake is risky due to the sheer number of Flying-types and Levitate Pokemon in the Uber environment, so exercise caution before going ahead with the attack. Punishment is chosen as the last move to KO setup sweepers such as Calm Mind Mewtwo, Giratina-O, and Ghost Arceus. As Punishment increases in power as these Pokemon gain Calm Mind boosts, Ho-Oh can easily use Punishment to save your team from utter ruin if the enemy Calm Mind user has acquired multiple boosts. Sleep Talk lets Ho-Oh switch in on Darkrai; Brave Bird and Sacred Fire can KO Darkrai after Stealth Rock damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs let Ho-Oh outrun everything up to neutral-nature Deoxys-A and maximize power because this set needs all the power it can get. With an Adamant nature, Sacred Fire in the sun is even more powerful than Zekrom's Bolt Strike. If you manage to keep Stealth Rock off the field, Regenerator allows Ho-Oh to last a lot longer than most Choice Scarf users.</p>

    <p>Any teammate from the previous sets will also work well with this one. However, due to this Ho-Oh's considerably lower power, it can be more easily walled, as even defensive Groudon is not 2HKOed by any of Ho-Oh's moves and Wobbuffet can trap it with Shadow Tag and Counter it to oblivion as long as it does not switch in on Sacred Fire in the sun. [reword this sentence, it's super wordy] Choice Band Zekrom is able to stomp all over Kyogre with its powerful STAB Bolt Strike and can weaken Wobbuffet to the point where it can no longer trap Ho-Oh and live. Mixed attackers, such as Palkia and Dialga, can bluff a Choice Scarf by holding an item such as Lustrous Orb or Expert Belt to lure Wobbuffet in. As it Counters or Mirror Coats expecting a physical or special attack, Wobbuffet will quickly find itself being wiped off the face of the planet from an attack on the opposite side. However, Custap Berry allows Wobbuffet to somewhat bypass this with a faster Destiny Bond, although it has to be in the right HP range to work. Toxic Spikes from Forretress also badly mess up Wobbuffet. Using the sheer power that Pokemon such as Choice Specs Kyurem-W and Rayquaza possess can also help to eliminate Wobbuffet.</p>

    <p>This Ho-Oh set has no form of recovery outside of Regenerator, so Rapid Spin support from Forretress is a must. Using Wish support is also a good idea, as it gives Ho-Oh more switch-in opportunities, especially when Stealth Rock is up. Blissey is a notable Wish user, as it can pass Wishes so enormous that they will often fully heal Ho-Oh. Jirachi can also use Wish effectively and has access to U-turn, great bulk, and numerous resistances, including a resistance to Rock-type attacks. If you are using Ho-Oh on a sand team, Excadrill can be a great partner thanks to its solid power deterring Ghost-types from switching in and access to Rapid Spin. However, using Ho-Oh on a sun team is best to power up Sacred Fire's power, and Groudon itself makes a great partner to Ho-Oh.</p>

    [SET]
    name: KACAW MOTHERFUCKER (Choice Band)
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Sleep Talk / Punishment
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Ho-Oh's greatest weakness has historically been Stealth Rock, which has dissuaded the use of Choice items on it. However, with Regenerator, Ho-Oh is able to switch in and out more freely, allowing it to wield the fearsome power of a Choice Band with far less risk. With a Choice Band, Ho-Oh becomes incredibly difficult to switch into; while a Life Orb also grants a comparable level of power, Choice Band's lack of recoil is appealing&mdash;even with Regenerator, Ho-Oh does not want to deal with additional passive damage when Stealth Rock is up. Choice Band-boosted Sacred Fire has amazing power in the sun, doing things such as OHKOing Arceus and Dialga after Stealth Rock and providing a comfortable 2HKO on physically defensive Groudon. It also ensures that Ho-Oh can take lead Deoxys-S down to its Focus Sash and&mdash;due to the chance of burn&mdash;limit Deoxys-S to one layer of hazards 47.5% of the time. Brave Bird is also incredibly powerful, OHKOing Kyogre and Palkia with no prior damage. It also 2HKOes Giratina-O, Forretress, and most physically defensive Arceus formes as well as a 2HKO on physically defensive Giratina with Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes. Earthquake covers Tyranitar, Rock Arceus, Kabutops, Omastar, Heatran, and Dialga in rain. Sleep Talk allows Ho-Oh to be a relatively safe switch-in to Darkrai's dreaded Dark Void, while Punishment can be used to smash Calm Mind users weak to it, such as Ghost Arceus, Giratina-O, and Latias.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Heavy HP investment gives Ho-Oh more bulk and makes the use of Brave Bird much less risky. Alternatively, maximum Speed can be used to get the drop on as many other base 90 Pokemon as possible, but the loss in bulk is noticeable. Ho-Oh's movepool is quite sparse, so what's listed here is about as good as it gets. Very niche options for the fourth slot include Aerial Ace to guarantee a connection against an Evasion booster and Roost to help deal with residual damage if a free turn is presented&mdash;this is of course very risky on a Choice-locked Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Rapid Spin support is actually more important for this set than sunlight. Unlike other sets, which have access to recovery, this Ho-Oh will be switching out often and relying on Regenerator to keep itself alive. Forretress can Rapid Spin while also providing entry hazards and switch-in opportunities with Volt Switch. Excadrill can switch into Zekrom fairly safely and can provide Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock support as well. Groudon is also an important supporter for this set&mdash;while the raw power of Brave Bird allows this set to function even in rain, Ho-Oh greatly appreciates boosted Sacred Fires and a neutrality to Water-type moves. Groudon can provide Stealth Rock as well, which makes Multiscale Lugia easier to handle and ensures a few important OHKOes and 2HKOes. Offensively, Extreme Killer Arceus is an excellent complement to this set, as is Rock Polish Groudon. Both greatly enjoy this set's ability to cripple opposing Giratina and Groudon, and Sacred Fire's burn rate can grant easy set-up opportunities for them. Ho-Oh is also an excellent switch-in to Choice Scarf Genesect, something which can interfere with a weakened Extreme Killer Arceus's sweep. Defensively, partners that can switch into Kyogre are very important; Latias and Palkia are good examples.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Substitute / Whirlwind
    move 4: Roost
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Impish
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Ho-Oh's Defense might not seem like much, but when fully invested and with the assistance of Sacred Fire burns, the rainbow phoenix can take its fair share of physical abuse. This Ho-Oh aims to spread burns through Sacred Fire and act as an excellent pivot through Regenerator. Full investment in Defense allows Ho-Oh to take a myriad of physical attacks much more comfortably; Extreme Killer Arceus's +2 ExtremeSpeed, Rayquaza's +1 Outrage, Mewtwo's + 1 Psystrike, and support Groudon's Stone Edge all fail to OHKO.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire is needed to spread burns; Brave Bird is the other obligatory STAB attack, dealing respectable damage, even with minimal Attack investment. Substitute is the primary option to ease prediction and protect Ho-Oh from status. Earthquake can also be used to hit Heatran and the Rock-types that plague Ho-Oh. Whirlwind is another option to rack up hazard damage and scout switches; it is especially effective because Ho-Oh forces out a lot of Pokemon. Roost gives Ho-Oh some much needed longevity outside of switching out repeatedly. Roost can be used with a faster spread to absorb Ice-, Rock-, and Electric-type attacks.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is simple, as it maximizing Defense and maintains an odd HP number to round down Stealth Rock damage. The leftover EVs are placed in Attack to give a little kick to Sacred Fire and Brave Bird. Combined with Regenerator, this Ho-Oh can switch endlessly into both Giratina formes, only taking significant damage from invested Giratina-O's Outrage. Ho-Oh still has massive Special Defense, meaning it can perform its normal duties of switching into the powerful special attacks thrown about in Ubers.</p>

    <p>Like all other Ho-Oh sets, the removal of Stealth Rock is greatly appreciated; Forretress, Tentacruel, and Excadrill are all excellent spinners in Ubers. Groudon isn't nearly as necessary for this set as other Ho-Oh sets, as Sacred Fire's primary job is to spread burns. A physically defensive Ghost-type Pokemon, such as RestTalk Giratina-O, pairs excellently with this Ho-Oh, absorbing the weak attacks of burned Pokemon and phazing with Dragon Tail. Ferrothorn is also a great partner to this set, as it handles the majority of the Pokemon commonly found on rain teams and walls Choice Scarf Zekrom. Latias, Palkia, Chansey, and Blissey also make for great defensive partners, absorbing the few strong special attacks that Ho-Oh can't.</p>

    <p>This set still fears rain-boosted Water-type attacks from Pokemon such as Kyogre and Palkia, in addition to Thunder, although the latter does not usually KO. Stone Edge from any offensively-inclined Pokemon will still KO Ho-Oh, although defensive Groudon has a chance not to. Jolly Choice Scarf Zekrom's Bolt Strike has a chance not to KO, but the KO with Adamant is still guaranteed.<p>

    <p>Thunder Wave can be used over one of the attacking options, as it is very annoying for opposing Ho-Oh and can cripple other threats that rely on their Speed, such as over-eager Choice Scarf Kyogre looking to switch in on Sacred Fire. Toxic is also viable, crippling Lugia and Arceus Rock, two of Ho-Oh's greatest checks, but they don't exactly appreciate Thunder Wave either.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Recover is an option over Roost if you desperately need to keep Ho-Oh's immunity to Ground-type attacks at all times. Hippowdon is the only notable Earthquake user that is always slower than Ho-Oh, but it can easily be burned and walled anyway. Ho-Oh can utilize any of Reflect, Light Screen, and Toxic to become a very good staller with Pressure, but that role is better left to Lugia, which has greater Defense and Speed. Ho-Oh is also a good spreader of paralysis with Thunder Wave, so the move can be used on defensive sets, but Ho-Oh is better off killing things directly. Ground-type Pokemon, such as Groudon and Garchomp, rarely switch into Ho-Oh due to the risk of getting burned by Sacred Fire. Safeguard can also be used to give Ho-Oh status protection, but Substitute is usually the better option, as it also stops Leech Seed. Finally, Ho-Oh can use Calm Mind or Choice Specs and run a decent special attacking set with its good base 110 Special Attack, but it's generally outclassed by Reshiram in that respect due to Reshiram's much higher Special Attack and access to STAB Dragon-type attacks. Thunder seems like a great move to KO Kyogre, but Brave Bird actually does more damage to most Kyogre due to Kyogre's Defense being much lower than its Special Defense and Ho-Oh's high Attack stat.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ho-Oh is extremely hard to counter due to its high bulk, powerful attacks, and the threat of a burn. The best way to keep Ho-Oh in check isn't a Pokemon at all; it is the move Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock limits Ho-Oh's longevity by stripping off 50% of its health every time it switches in. Even with Regenerator, Ho-Oh fears Stealth Rock more than anything else. Keeping a sturdy Ghost-type such as Giratina-O or Ghost Arceus is recommended to ensure Stealth Rock isn't spun away.</p>

    <p>Kyogre is by far the most common way to check Ho-Oh because of Drizzle canceling out Ho-Oh's beloved sunlight and Kyogre's immense power. A full power Water Spout from Kyogre can easily drown Ho-Oh regardless of its EVs. While surprising, specially defensive Ho-Oh actually stands a chance of surviving one Surf from non-Choice Specs Kyogre. Additionally, offensive Kyogre is 2HKOed by Brave Bird. Bold Kyogre avoids the 2HKO from Brave Bird, but Scald does not even OHKO in return, making it a shaky check. The reason Kyogre is so widely used to counter Ho-Oh is because it can counteract Ho-Oh's most common partner, Groudon. Most of Ho-Oh's checks are defeated by Groudon, but Kyogre easily OHKOes both with its gh-powered Water-type attacks, making it the most consistent check.</p>

    <p>Rock Arceus is probably the closest thing Ho-Oh has to a true counter. It resists both Sacred Fire and Brave Bird, has the bulk to take multiple hits, and can OHKO Ho-Oh with a swift Judgment. However, Rock Arceus really hates switching in on Earthquake repeatedly, as it 2HKOes, especially in conjunction with burn damage. Zekrom also resists both of Ho-Oh's STABs, has high Defense, and can easily fell it with Bolt Strike. However, Zekrom loathes a possible burn, and a Life Orb Earthquake almost OHKOes it. Heatran is immune to Sacred Fire and burn and resists Brave Bird but is OHKOed by Earthquake and cannot do much to Ho-Oh in return besides Toxic. Palkia quadruple resists Sacred Fire and can take one Brave Bird from full health, but even though it possesses STAB Water-type attacks, Ho-Oh actually walls Palkia in the sunlight unless it carries Stone Edge. Outside of sun, Palkia can easily 2HKO Ho-Oh with Surf, and Stone Edge is a must if you rely on Palkia to check Ho-Oh. Power Gem does not even come close to OHKOing Ho-Oh. Giratina is one of the few walls capable of soaking up Ho-Oh's attacks somewhat comfortably, but it cannot do much in return besides phaze, as Ho-Oh can avoid Toxic with Substitute. Physically defensive Giratina-O is not 2HKOed by Brave Bird and can 2HKO Ho-Oh back with Outrage, but an untimely burn messes it up. Rayquaza also outspeeds Ho-Oh and can Outrage it into oblivion, but Rayquaza can only really come in on Earthquake, as it cannot risk eating a burn or Brave Bird. Lugia can cripple Ho-Oh with a faster Toxic, can soften hits with Reflect, and stall Ho-Oh out with Roost and Pressure. However, Lugia does not enjoy taking repeated Sacred Fires in the sun, especially because Lugia is likely to be burned as well. Lugia is also capable of forcing out Ho-Oh with Whirlwind but cannot deal real damage outside of Toxic. A fast Choice Band Groudon can survive at least one attack and OHKO Ho-Oh with Stone Edge, even after a burn. Tyranitar resists both of Ho-Oh's STABs and has a powerful Stone Edge to OHKO back, but it risks getting stalled out by Substitute if Stone Edge misses and is extremely vulnerable to being burned. Kyurem-B does not resist any of Ho-Oh's common attacks but is faster than it and bulky enough to take one hit and OHKO back with Fusion Bolt. Hippowdon can take repeated hits thanks to Slack Off, set up Stealth Rock, and Whirlwind Ho-Oh out, but it fails to do any real damage to Ho-Oh.</p>

    <p>Mewtwo can OHKO Ho-Oh with Psystrike after Stealth Rock damage, although it cannot switch in safely on any move besides Roost. While it is a rather strange proposition, a defensive Fire Arceus with Stone Edge is immune to burn and can KO Ho-Oh in one hit, making it one of the best albeit niche counters to Ho-Oh. Kabutops quadruple resists Sacred Fire and is only 3HKOed by Brave Bird, so it can switch in on one hit and OHKO slower Ho-Oh sets with Stone Edge, but Earthquake can smash it to pieces, so it must be wary of switching in. Reshiram with Stone Edge can turn the tables on Ho-Oh, as it does not fear burn or Sacred Fire, while Stone Edge OHKOes Ho-Oh. Almost anything faster than Ho-Oh that has a Rock-type attack, such as Choice Scarf Garchomp or Terrakion, can easily revenge kill it with Stone Edge.</p>

    "Will" is a pretty terrible word in most of the cases you used it; stick to the present tense, it makes more sense and is less wordy. There were a bunch of wordiness issues and outright errors, as well as some Poké-grammar stuff. I might have changed too much, idk. Nice job though, this analysis is a mammoth!
  17. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego The little hand says it's time to rock and roll
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,811
    Yeah jukain's check was pretty good. Also this needs to go onsite.

    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  18. trickroom

    trickroom
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,000
    Thanks for the GP check. I fixed all the comments. The c/p post really helped. This thing is such a bitch to write up :[

    You don't have to GP physically defensive and Choice Band set again as they are already done by Poppy and Tobes. Sorry for bad grammar I got messed up re-writing this whole thing and I suck.

    <@TIBot> #50 in Ubers | Usage: 2.04991% Rock Arceus
    <@TIBot> #27 in Ubers | Usage: 6.83319% Terrakion
    <@TIBot> #26 in Ubers | Usage: 7.32682% Tyranitar

    I won't call Rock Arceus as semi-comon :( It is pretty rare so I will keep it like that. Not saying Rock Arceus is bad but it isn't as common as the other two Rock-types due to its opportunity cost and pretty niche use.

    Ready for last GP check :D
  19. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego The little hand says it's time to rock and roll
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,811
    Trickroom make sure you change the title to (GP 1/2) and let people know that the CB and defensive sets are done!
  20. trickroom

    trickroom
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,000
    Fixed. CB and physically defensive set are done! The next GP check can ignore the two sets, this is a huge analysis already D:
  21. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego The little hand says it's time to rock and roll
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,811
    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

    sorry for cheating but this needs to be onsite

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>With a huge base 130 Attack and powerful STAB options in Sacred Fire (which carries an impressive 50% burn rate) and Brave Bird, Ho-Oh can easily put serious hurt on anything that dares to stand up to it. Regenerator increases Ho-Oh's durability, allowing Ho-Oh to function as a bulky pivot. Ho-Oh can even amp up its middling Speed with Flame Charge, potentially sweeping an entire weakened team with its immensely powerful STABs. Ho-Oh is one of the most dangerous sun based Pokemon in the game; even when in rain, Ho-Oh still has a powerful Brave Bird to throw around, a move not even Kyogre will enjoy taking. Ho-Oh is not restricted to a specific weather archetype because it counters certain threats such as Fighting Arceus, Ghost Arceus, and sun teams, which often find themselves completely walled by Ho-Oh. 154 base Special Defense with 106 base HP gives Ho-Oh great special bulk and, when combined with Ho-Oh's good offenses and Sacred Fire's great burn chance, makes it an amazing offensive tank that has equal special bulk to Great Wall Lugia! Even with a crippling weakness to the common Stealth Rock, Ho-Oh's amazing qualities allow it to thrive in the hostile Uber metagame due to its combination of power and bulk. Unfortunately, Stealth Rock will continue to be Ho-Oh's biggest weakness even with access to Regenerator, as the rainbow bird despises losing 50% of its HP on every switch.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Substitute / Earthquake
    move 4: Roost
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 248 HP / 176 Atk / 84 SpD

    <p>This Ho-Oh set shrugs off most non-super effective hits while replying with powerful attacks of its own. Unlike most walls, Ho-Oh packs a lot of power, so it can KO the opponent outright instead of relying on status or phazing moves. Thanks to Ho-Oh's great stat layout, it can wall most special attackers with just 248 HP EVs; most Calm Mind Arceus that lack a super effective attack to hit Ho-Oh with have little hope of breaking past it. This set also checks many other notable threats, such as Darkrai, Shaymin-S, Palkia, Reshiram, Latias, Genesect, Dialga, and Tornadus-T.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire and Brave Bird are the main attacks. Sacred Fire's solid burn rate deters switch-ins from the likes of Rayquaza and other powerful physical attackers hoping to take out Ho-Oh. Brave Bird is a powerful STAB move that can be easily thrown around in a tier where few common Pokemon resist Flying-type attacks, easily annihilating Kyogre, Palkia, and Reshiram. Roost lets Ho-Oh stall out defensive Groudon's Stone Edge, which becomes even easier when Groudon is burned with Sacred Fire. Although Roost makes Ho-Oh vulnerable to Earthquake, most users of the move are faster than Ho-Oh anyway, and Stone Edge from Groudon will still do more damage to a non-Roosting Ho-Oh than Earthquake to a Roosting one Ho-Oh. Substitute gives Ho-Oh status protection and eases prediction; it can be set up easily because Ho-Oh frequently finds free turns switch-ins due to the many Pokemon that can't touch it, such as Ferrothorn and Blissey.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The Special Defense EVs just guarantee Ho-Oh's survival against some powerful attacks. The EV spread gives Ho-Oh a decent amount of power while still retaining its high special bulk. +4 Timid Life Orb Darkrai cannot OHKO this Ho-Oh, Choice Scarf Palkia only has a 3.13% chance to 2HKO with Thunder, and 252+ Dialga's Draco Meteor does a maximum of 51.56%. Any max Special Attack neutral-natured Arceus will never 2HKO Ho-Oh with a +1 neutral Judgment thanks to Leftovers. A Life Orb can be used over Leftovers, trading longevity for power; the item secures important OHKOs and 2HKOs that Ho-Oh cannot achieve with Leftovers, such as the almost-guaranteed OHKO on Choice Scarf Kyogre with Brave Bird after Stealth Rock damage. Genesect can never get past Ho-Oh unless it manages to grab a Special Attack boost beforehand and has Thunder or Explosion. Even Kyurem-W has trouble killing a full health Ho-Oh, as only Modest Choice Specs Ice Beam stands a chance to 2HKO, (RC) and Draco Meteor can be outstalled with Roost. Both Latias and Latios are walled by Ho-Oh unless the latter packs Psyshock or rain is up and they carry Surf. Thunder from Latias barely 2HKOes Ho-Oh, while Brave Bird can easily net a 2HKO or even an OHKO if you are using Life Orb. When using a Life Orb, an alternate spread of 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe can be used for maximum power and optimum bulk. Leftovers is the preferred item, as Ho-Oh enjoys the extra recovery and the prevention of Brave Bird recoil from wearing down Ho-Oh too quickly.</p>

    <p>Earthquake is an option, as it rounds out Ho-Oh's coverage superbly, 2HKOing all forms of Zekrom (even OHKOing offensive variants after damage from Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes) as well as deterring Rock Arceus and the rare Heatran from switching in freely. Whirlwind allows Ho-Oh to become a great phazer, but that is generally better left to physically defensive Ho-Oh, which has more physical bulk.</p>

    <p> If you need Ho-Oh to beat Choice Specs Kyurem-W, using a set with max Special Defense investment is possible, but Ho-Oh will have to sacrifice a lot of power. Sunny Day can also be used on this set (in the last slot) to lure in Kyogre, Ho-Oh's most common check, and turn the tables on it, but this can only be done on the predicted switch-in or on defensive Kyogre, which usually do not invest in Speed. Ho-Oh's favorite teammates are Groudon and a Rapid Spinner; the former pumps up the power of Sacred Fire, while the latter serves as a means to prevent&mdash;but not guarantee&mdash;Stealth Rock from being up to cripple Ho-Oh. This set also really appreciates paralysis support to make up for its low Speed. Grass Arceus deters Ground-types from switching in with its typing, allowing it to slow down a large chunk of the enemy team with Thunder Wave. Dialga, Groudon, Lugia, Kyogre, Jirachi, and Blissey can also spread paralysis very effectively, as they are not common Thunder Wave users. Entry hazards are also recommended because Ho-Oh can force a lot of switches. Forretress can set up all three entry hazards, and Ho-Oh can easily come in on Fire-type attacks aimed at Forretress and start firing off powerful attacks. Excadrill is the best spinner in the tier, but it should only be paired with Ho-Oh on a sand team, as stacking Groudon and Excadrill with Ho-Oh makes the team extremely weak to Kyogre. Excadrill can easily switch in on Rock- or Electric-type attacks for Ho-Oh and weaken threats for Ho-Oh, while Ho-Oh can find many switch-in opportunities on Ground-, Fighting-, and Fire-type attacks aimed at Excadrill. While unreliable, Espeon and Xatu can use their Magic Bounce ability to keep Stealth Rock off the field for some time to support Ho-Oh.</p>

    <p>Forretress and Tentacruel are the only viable partners for Ho-Oh that can set up Toxic Spikes. Toxic Spikes, when combined with Substitute and Roost, can allow Ho-Oh to outstall many threats simply by spamming Substitute and Roost. For example, Ho-Oh can come in on something that it walls but is faster, such as Choice Scarf Palkia, and set up a Substitute as Palkia is worn down by the Toxic poison. From there, Ho-Oh can net another KO or two while safely behind its Substitute. However, bear in mind that you can no longer burn threats when they are poisoned.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Sweeper
    move 1: Flame Charge / Tailwind
    move 2: Sacred Fire
    move 3: Brave Bird
    move 4: Roost / Earthquake
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>One of Ho-Oh's biggest problems is usually its middling base 90 Speed, but this can be mitigated by using Flame Charge or Tailwind to boost its Speed to more acceptable levels. Sun support from Groudon is highly recommended to power up Ho-Oh's STAB Sacred Fire and Flame Charge and to remove Ho-Oh's weakness to Water-type attacks. Sun also reduces Thunder's accuracy to an unreliable 50%, which can be helpful because some threats rely on Thunder to take out Ho-Oh.</p>

    <p>Flame Charge and Tailwind both have their own advantages. Flame Charge's Speed boost lasts until Ho-Oh switches out and allows Ho-Oh to soften up the foe with a light smack before going on the full offensive. More importantly, It can also break Focus Sashes and Sturdy so that one of Ho-Oh's real other attacks can KO on the next turn. However, Tailwind offers a significantly higher initial Speed boost. For example, Ho-Oh requires a Jolly Nature and 252 Speed EVs just to Speed tie with positive natured base 90 Speed Pokemon that have a Choice Scarf. However, Ho-Oh can outrun max Speed base 108 Pokemon equipped with Choice Scarf while itself running a neutral nature and only 176 Speed EVs after a single use of Tailwind. Tailwind also benefits the entire team; if Ho-Oh needs to switch out, a counter to your opponent's Ho-Oh check can step in and perform a mini-sweep of its own using the boosted Speed granted by Tailwind. However, Tailwind only lasts three turns after being used, which means Ho-Oh cannot sweep for long when more than three faster threats are still around. Flame Charge is the more consistent option, as the boost stays until Ho-Oh switches out, and Ho-Oh can continue boosting its Speed till +6 with enough free turns. Or move this to the top</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire is always the main attack Ho-Oh will be using, (AC) and, (RC) when backed by STAB and sunlight, outright OHKOes many Pokemon in the Uber tier, such as Mewtwo, as well as at least 2HKOing anything that does not resist it. Brave Bird, Ho-Oh's other incredibly potent STAB move of choice, nails Kyogre, Reshiram, and Palkia for assured OHKOs after just Stealth Rock damage. Brave Bird also provides Ho-Oh with a very strong sweeping attack in case the weather is not in its favor, but the recoil can be huge depending on how much damage it does. Roost rounds out the set brilliantly, helping Ho-Oh recover damage incurred from Stealth Rock and Life Orb, as well possibly allowing it to gain multiple Flame Charge boosts or to set up Tailwind repeatedly. While this Ho-Oh is an excellent offensive Pokemon, the loss of bulk is pretty significant, so it can no longer wall more powerful threats such as Calm Mind Arceus and Reshiram as reliably because both +1 Judgment and Draco Meteor OHKO Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock damage. Weaker threats, such as Shaymin-S and Darkrai, can still be checked, (AC) though. Although Fire- and Flying-type STABs are a good combination, they leave Ho-Oh walled by Zekrom, Heatran (it needs Toxic or Hidden Power Rock to beat Ho-Oh one on one, however), and Rock-type Pokemon. Earthquake solves this problem by OHKOing Zekrom after it takes damage from Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes, always OHKOing Heatran, and 2HKOing at worst all common Rock-type Pokemon. However, without Roost, Ho-Oh is extremely vulnerable to Stealth Rock, so solid Rapid Spin support is necessary with Earthquake.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs are fairly simple. Maximum Attack is used to hit as hard as possible, and the Speed EVs enable Ho-Oh to hit 418 Speed after a Flame Charge, which lets it outpace everything below Choice Scarf Heatran. If using Tailwind, it is best to run 176 Speed EVs, which allows Ho-Oh to outspeed Choice Scarf Terrakion with Tailwind up. An Adamant nature is preferred because it affords Ho-Oh a large amount of much-needed power. However, Jolly allows Ho-Oh to outspeed Deoxys-A and tie with Choice Scarf-wielding base 90 Speed Pokemon, such as Timid Reshiram, after a Flame Charge boost and Jolly Max Speed Excadrill in the sand after a Tailwind. If you want to take advantage of Ho-Oh's bulk, a spread of 140 HP / 176 Atk / 192 Spe can be used with an Adamant nature to outrun everything up to Mewtwo after a Flame Charge boost, but this comes at the price of losing some power and Speed. Flame Plate is possible over Life Orb to power up Sacred Fire and Flame Charge if you hate the recoil. Sky Plate can be used to 2HKO bulky Kyogre and Giratina-O with Brave Bird. An alternate EV spread of 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe lets you act like tank Ho-Oh with the ability to support the team through Tailwind, still giving Ho-Oh enough Speed to outspeed everything up to Mewtwo.</p>

    <p>Groudon, with its great bulk and everlasting sunlight courtesy of Drought, fulfills Ho-Oh's sunlight needs perfectly. Groudon can also set up Stealth Rock to help Ho-Oh nab some important OHKOs and is capable of beating many Pokemon that check Ho-Oh, such as Terrakion and Zekrom. Forretress's good Defense and many resistances allow it to fulfill the Rapid Spinning role perfectly; it can even set up Spikes to facilitate Ho-Oh's sweep. While attempting a successful Rapid Spin is hard in Ubers, Forretress does way more than that, as it can also help tank Outrages aimed at Ho-Oh and check certain threats, such as Terrakion with Gyro Ball. If you just wish to delay the setting up of Stealth Rock on your side of the field, Deoxys-S with Taunt is a good choice, as it can achieve this that fairly easily thanks to its high Speed and can set up its own Stealth Rock. Magic Bounce users can also delay the opponent from setting up Stealth Rock. Sadly, the two Pokemon with the ability are awful and are easy to KO, making them mediocre partners.</p>

    <p>The best counter to this set is Rock Arceus, as it packs resistances to both of Ho-Oh's STAB moves, is bulky enough to take an Earthquake, and can easily destroy Ho-Oh with one Judgment. Ho-Oh also isn't a fan of Kyogre and Zekrom, as the former disposes of Ho-Oh's beloved sunlight and the latter can handle one hit from Ho-Oh and OHKO it back with Bolt Strike. Defensive Groudon can also be an annoyance to this set, as Sacred Fire only 2HKOes it, (RC) while Stone Edge OHKOes Ho-Oh if you fail to burn Groudon. Rock-types are rare in Ubers, and the only semi-common ones are Tyranitar and Terrakion, which are easily checked by Groudon. Thankfully, Groudon's bulk and very powerful STAB Earthquake make it an excellent counter to Zekrom, opposing Groudon, and Rock-types, including Rock Arceus. Palkia can easily come in on Kyogre's powerful Water-type strikes and defeat it with Thunder. Grass Arceus is capable of checking pretty much all of Ho-Oh's counters, either crippling them with status or setting up on them with Calm Mind. Latias can also help defeat Kyogre and Terrakion with her powerful Grass Knot.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Sacred Fire
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Punishment / Sleep Talk
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Tailwind and Flame Charge can boost Ho-Oh's Speed, those require a turn of setup. With a Choice Scarf, Ho-Oh becomes a great revenge killer and late-game cleaner with its powerful attacks and solid bulk. Although Ho-Oh does not outrun most opposing Choice Scarf users, it is still fast enough to outrun all Pokemon up to Mewtwo and positive-natured Deoxys-A if you choose to go with a Jolly nature.</p>

    <p>Sacred Fire, even without a Life Orb boost, is still a ridiculously powerful attack in the sunlight that maims anything that does not resist it. Brave Bird also stands as a very powerful secondary STAB that 2HKOes almost all Kyogre and Palkia. Only Bold Kyogre has a chance of avoiding the 2HKO after Stealth Rock damage, (RC) and Scald does not even OHKO Ho-Oh in return. Earthquake is there to cover Pokemon such as Zekrom, Terrakion, Heatran, Tyranitar, and Reshiram, as well as getting a harder hit on Dialga outside of sun. However, getting locked into Earthquake is risky due to the sheer number of Flying-types and Levitate Pokemon in the Uber environment, so exercise caution before going ahead with the attack. Punishment is chosen as the last move to KO set-up In this case this would be preferred imo, as it is there to kill sweepers that have set up already sweepers such as Calm Mind Mewtwo, Giratina-O, and Ghost Arceus. As Punishment increases in power as these Pokemon gain Calm Mind boosts, Ho-Oh can easily use Punishment to save your team from utter ruin if the enemy Calm Mind user has acquired multiple boosts. Sleep Talk lets Ho-Oh switch in on Darkrai; Brave Bird and Sacred Fire can KO it Darkrai after Stealth Rock damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs let Ho-Oh outrun everything up to neutral-natured Deoxys-A and maximize power, as because this set needs all the power it can get. With an Adamant nature, Sacred Fire in the sun is even more powerful than Zekrom's Bolt Strike. If you manage to keep Stealth Rock off the field, Regenerator allows Ho-Oh to last a lot longer than most Choice Scarf users.</p>

    <p>Any teammate from the previous sets will also work well with this one. However, due to this Ho-Oh's considerably lower power, it can be more easily walled, as even defensive Groudon is not 2HKOed by any of Ho-Oh's moves. Wobbuffet can trap it Ho-Oh with Shadow Tag and Counter it to oblivion as long as it does not come in on Sacred Fire in the sun. Choice Band Zekrom is able to stomp all over Kyogre with its powerful STAB Bolt Strike and can weaken Wobbuffet to the point where it can no longer trap Ho-Oh and live. Mixed attackers, such as Palkia and Dialga, can bluff a Choice Scarf by holding an item such as Lustrous Orb or Expert Belt to lure Wobbuffet in. As it Counters or Mirror Coats expecting a physical or special attack, Wobbuffet will quickly find itself being wiped off the face of the planet from an attack on the opposite side. However, Custap Berry allows Wobbuffet to somewhat bypass this with a faster Destiny Bond, although it has to be in the right HP range to work. Toxic Spikes from Forretress also badly mess up Wobbuffet. Using the sheer power that Pokemon such as Choice Specs Kyurem-W and Rayquaza possess can also help to eliminate Wobbuffet.</p>

    <p>This Ho-Oh set has no form of recovery outside of Regenerator, so Rapid Spin support from Forretress is a must. Using Wish support is also a good idea, as it gives Ho-Oh more switch-in opportunities, especially when Stealth Rock is up. Blissey is a notable Wish user, as it can pass Wishes so enormous that they will often fully heal Ho-Oh. Jirachi can also use Wish effectively and has access to U-turn, great bulk, and numerous resistances, including one a resistance to Rock-type attacks. If you are using Ho-Oh on a sand team, Excadrill can be a great partner thanks to its solid power deterring Ghost-types from switching in and access to Rapid Spin. However, using Ho-Oh on a sun team is best to power up Sacred Fire's power, and Groudon itself makes a great partner to Ho-Oh.</p>


    [Other Options]

    <p>Recover is an option over Roost if you desperately need to keep Ho-Oh's immunity to Ground-type attacks at all times. Hippowdon is the only notable Earthquake user that is always slower than Ho-Oh, but it can easily be burned and walled anyway. Ho-Oh can utilize any of Reflect, Light Screen, and Toxic to become a very good wall staller with Pressure, but that role is better left to Lugia, which has greater Defense and Speed. Ho-Oh is also a good spreader of paralysis with Thunder Wave, so the move can be used on defensive sets, but Ho-Oh is better off killing things directly. However, Ground-type Pokemon, such as Groudon and Garchomp, rarely switch into Ho-Oh due to the risk of getting burned by Sacred Fire. Safeguard can also be used to give Ho-Oh status protection, but Substitute is usually the better option, as it also stops Leech Seed. Finally, Ho-Oh can use Calm Mind or Choice Specs and run a decent special attacking set with its good base 110 Special Attack, but it's generally outclassed by Reshiram in that respect due to Reshiram's much higher Special Attack and access to STAB Dragon-type attacks. Thunder seems like a great move to KO Kyogre, but Brave Bird actually does more damage to most Kyogre due to Kyogre's Defense being much lower than its Special Defense and Ho-Oh's high Attack stat.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ho-Oh is extremely hard to counter due to its high bulk, powerful attacks, and the threat of a burn. The best way to keep Ho-Oh in check isn't a Pokemon at all; it is the move Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock limits Ho-Oh's longevity by stripping off 50% of its health every time it switches in. Even with Regenerator, Ho-Oh fears Stealth Rock more than anything else. Keeping a sturdy Ghost-type such as Giratina-O or Ghost Arceus is recommended to ensure Stealth Rock isn't spun away.</p>

    <p>Kyogre is by far the most common way to check Ho-Oh because of Drizzle canceling out Ho-Oh's beloved sunlight and Kyogre's immense power. A full power Water Spout from Kyogre can easily drown Ho-Oh regardless of its EVs. While surprising, specially defensive Ho-Oh actually stands a chance of surviving one Surf from non-Choice Specs Kyogre. Additionally, offensive Kyogre is 2HKOed by Brave Bird. Bold Kyogre avoids the 2HKO from Brave Bird, but Scald does not even OHKO in return, making it a shaky check. The reason Kyogre is so widely used to counter Ho-Oh is because it can counteract Ho-Oh's most common partner, Groudon. Most of Ho-Oh's checks are defeated by Groudon, but Kyogre easily OHKOes both with its high-powered Water-type attacks, making it the most consistent check.</p>

    <p>Rock Arceus is probably the closest thing Ho-Oh has to a true counter. It resists both Sacred Fire and Brave Bird, has the bulk to take multiple hits, and can OHKO Ho-Oh with a swift Judgment. However, Rock Arceus really hates switching in on Earthquake repeatedly, as it 2HKOes, especially in conjunction with burn damage. Zekrom also resists both of Ho-Oh's STABs, has high Defense, and can easily fell it with Bolt Strike. However, Zekrom loathes a possible burn, and a Life Orb Earthquake almost OHKOes it. Heatran is immune to Sacred Fire and a burn and resists Brave Bird but is OHKOed by Earthquake and cannot do much to Ho-Oh in return besides Toxic. Palkia quadruple resists Sacred Fire and can take one Brave Bird from full health, but even though it possesses STAB Water-type attacks, Ho-Oh actually walls Palkia in the sunlight unless it carries Stone Edge. Outside of sun, Palkia can easily 2HKO Ho-Oh with Surf, and Stone Edge is a must if you rely on Palkia to check Ho-Oh. Power Gem does not even come close to OHKOing Ho-Oh. Giratina is one of the few walls capable of soaking up Ho-Oh's attacks somewhat comfortably, but it cannot do much in return besides phaze, as Ho-Oh can avoid Toxic with Substitute. Physically defensive Giratina-O is not 2HKOed by Brave Bird and can 2HKO Ho-Oh back with Outrage, but an untimely burn messes it up. Rayquaza also outspeeds Ho-Oh and can Outrage it into oblivion, but Rayquaza can only really come in on Earthquake, as it cannot risk eating a burn or Brave Bird. Lugia can cripple Ho-Oh with a faster Toxic, can soften hits with Reflect, and stall Ho-Oh out with Roost and Pressure. However, Lugia does not enjoy taking repeated Sacred Fires in the sun, especially because Lugia is likely to be burned as well. Lugia is also capable of forcing out Ho-Oh with Whirlwind but cannot deal real damage outside of Toxic. A fast Choice Band Groudon can survive at least one attack and OHKO Ho-Oh with Stone Edge, even after a burn. Tyranitar resists both of Ho-Oh's STABs and has a powerful Stone Edge to OHKO back, but it risks getting stalled out by Substitute if Stone Edge misses and is extremely vulnerable to being burned. Kyurem-B does not resist any of Ho-Oh's common attacks but is faster than it and bulky enough to take one hit and OHKO back with Fusion Bolt. Hippowdon can take repeated hits thanks to Slack Off, set up Stealth Rock, and Whirlwind Ho-Oh out, but it fails to do any real damage to Ho-Oh.</p>

    <p>Mewtwo can OHKO Ho-Oh with Psystrike after Stealth Rock damage, although but it cannot switch in safely on any move besides Roost. While it is a rather strange proposition, a defensive Fire Arceus with Stone Edge is immune to burn and can KO Ho-Oh in one hit, making it one of the best albeit niche counters to Ho-Oh. Kabutops quadruple resists Sacred Fire and is only 3HKOed by Brave Bird, so it can switch in on one hit and OHKO slower Ho-Oh sets with Stone Edge, but Earthquake can smash it to pieces, so it must be wary of switching in. Reshiram with Stone Edge can turn the tables on Ho-Oh, as it does not fear burn or Sacred Fire, (RC) while Stone Edge OHKOes Ho-Oh. Almost anything faster than Ho-Oh that has a Rock-type attack, such as Choice Scarf Garchomp or Terrakion, can easily revenge kill it with Stone Edge.</p>


    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  22. Nexus

    Nexus Day 358: Believe
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Wi-Fi Commissioner

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,762
    Uploaded.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)