Ho-Oh

[Fireburn]

Name: Ho-Oh
Type: Fire / Flying
Abilities: Pressure / Regenerator
Base Stats: 106 / 130 / 90 / 110 / 154 / 90
Movepool: http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/ho-oh/moves
STATS/MOVEPOOL UNCONFIRMED

General description:
Ho-Oh hit the jackpot this generation: Defog now exists as a reliable alternative to Rapid Spin for keeping Stealth Rock off the field, easily making up for Ho-Oh's biggest weaknesses. Its newfound Fairy-type resistance helps it check new threats such as Arceus-Fairy and Xerneas, and it can fulfill its tanking roles better than ever before thanks to Stealth Rock being much easier to remove. Regenerator and Defog also lessen the need for Roost, potentially allowing Ho-Oh to run more Choice sets and all-out sweeping sets with Flame Charge much more easily. Although the Drought nerf means Sacred Fire isn't as strong as it may usually be, it was arguably helped just as much by the Drizzle nerf, and Ho-Oh still retains that awesome Brave Bird for smashing everything. Overall, Ho-Oh will likely be an even more dominating force in Gen 6 Ubers than before once Pokebank goes live.

 

[Judicator]

With last generation's addition of Regenerator to stay healthy without the need for a recovery move, plus Ho-oh's amazing Atk and SDef, I fully expect to see Assault Vest Ho-oh all over Ubers this gen.

 

[Donkey]

With last generation's addition of Regenerator to stay healthy without the need for a recovery move, plus Ho-oh's amazing Atk and SDef, I fully expect to see Assault Vest Ho-oh all over Ubers this gen.

Well keep expecting, defog doesn't guarantee no hazards so Ho-Oh still needs Roost in the case the enemy team has phazers.

 

[Ash Borer]

defog basically does guarantee no hazards, the distribution is phenomenal

 

[New World Order]

defog basically does guarantee no hazards, the distribution is phenomenal

You'd still have to be high to not run Roost on Ho-oh. You never know when a random crit will take out your Defog user.

 

[Non-Guest 31415]

You'd still have to be high to not run Roost on Ho-oh. You never know when a random crit will take out your Defog user.

Unless your Defog user is Lugia. Yes, it would have to be Pressure Lugia, but the point stands.

 

[Donkey]

defog basically does guarantee no hazards, the distribution is phenomenal

ur wrong
taunt

 

[Jimmyftw]

ur wrong
taunt

Yeah, because obviously you're going to use Defog on a taunt user. Defog is uncounterable.

I am seeing Sub-Roost as the best Ho-oh set at the moment. It provides optimum bulk while preserving offensive pressure. If you success in eliminating SR and physical threats, Ho-oh would basically be unkillable without a stab super-effective strike. And given Sacred Fire impressive 50 percent chance to burn, Ho-oh can potentially turn the table on physical threats, stalling them out with Substitute and Roost while waiting patiently for the perfect opportunity to attack.

 

[Donkey]

Yeah, because obviously you're going to use Defog on a taunt user. Defog is uncounterable.

I am seeing Sub-Roost as the best Ho-oh set at the moment. It provides optimum bulk while preserving offensive pressure. If you success in eliminating SR and physical threats, Ho-oh would basically be unkillable without a stab super-effective strike. And given Sacred Fire impressive 50 percent chance to burn, Ho-oh can potentially turn the table on physical threats, stalling them out with Substitute and Roost while waiting patiently for the perfect opportunity to attack.

ur still wrong. i have a team that is incredibly hard to defog against even with arceus forms.

 

[MMII]

Exactly, your opponent is just going to set up hazards and then sit around to let you blow them away. edit: (ouch ninja'd)

Ho-Oh is pretty flexible, arguably even more so than last gen. Lesser used variants like physically defensive are a lot more usable now that there is a reliable (but not guaranteed, nuance is important) method of removing hazards so you can afford to use Ho-Oh in a more reactive manner. Speaking of physically defensive, it checks a lot of important threats like Mewtwo (including mmx), Yveltal, and some other Ho-Oh variants, lol.

 

[FrostFire]

ur still wrong. i have a team that is incredibly hard to defog against even with arceus forms.

The best way to counter Defog (IMO) is much like the best way to counter Rapid Spin in Gen 5: simple, blunt offensive pressure. I actually don't think that Taunt is a particularly good way to stop Defog, as you have to be able to either:

Taunt the Defog user, predicting the switch-in;
The Defog user switches in, you outspeed the Defog user and Taunt;
Predict the Defog switch in, Double Switch to your Taunt mon, and outspeed and Taunt before they get the Defog off

There are ways and means. But the above situations are nowhere near as full-proof as, say, GhostCeus blocking Rapid Spin. There's no denying that removing hazards is a lot easier now, but as melee said above, it's also important to realise that Defog isn't guaranteed.

Which is where the offense comes in. The best way to stop Defog is simply by constantly threatening to KO or severely cripple the Defog mon should it try to remove hazards. You could also threaten to set up and sweep. I suppose the important thing to realise is that the turn your opponent uses defog is a 'free turn', and thus the goal is to make them pay dearly for taking that turn to Defog.

With that said, Defog really is a boon to Ho-Oh, no denying it. More reliable hazards removal not only gives it the flexibility to switch in and out more often, but also the flexibility to use more sets than it could last gen (i.e. choice sets), which makes it a more dynamic threat in general.

 

[Jimmyftw]

1. Kyogre
2. Arceus
3. Xerneas
4. Arceus - Ghost
5. Ho-oh

Is Defog guaranteed to remove hazard 100% of the time? No.

Does Defog make removing hazard easier? Yes.

Does the existence of Defog make Ho-oh better? Yes.

 

[Donkey]

1. Kyogre
2. Arceus
3. Xerneas
4. Arceus - Ghost
5. Ho-oh

Is Defog guaranteed to remove hazard 100% of the time? No.

Does Defog make removing hazard easier? Yes.

Does the existence of Defog make Ho-oh better? Yes.

i hope thats not what u consider the largest threats in the metagame atm o_o

 

[syzygian]

ur wrong
taunt

Taunt has been around a lot longer than Defog and is much easier to predict. Everyone is talking about keeping up offensive pressure, that applies against Taunt users every bit as much as Defog users.

Edit: Also if Assault Vest takes off, which I dunno if it will, people will probably want to scout a bit more before wasting turns taunting...

i hope thats not what u consider the largest threats in the metagame atm o_o

LOL @ you if those are official usage stats.

Speaking of offensive pressure, I really think Ho-oh should keep Roost. The ability to stay in, keep healing off damage, and keeping up that pressure which Ho-oh is very good at between its STABs, ability to burn, etc. is too important now, as people have been pointing out. Relying on Regenerator will bite people in the ass. I believe people need to think of Regenerator as a nice little bonus in case you are *forced* out, not something you intentionally switch out to activate...

 

[Blue Jay]

LOL @ you if those are official usage stats.

Speaking of offensive pressure, I really think Ho-oh should keep Roost. The ability to stay in, keep healing off damage, and keeping up that pressure which Ho-oh is very good at between its STABs, ability to burn, etc. is too important now, as people have been pointing out. Relying on Regenerator will bite people in the ass. I believe people need to think of Regenerator as a nice little bonus in case you are *forced* out, not something you intentionally switch out to activate...

Usage statistics reflect the ladder as a whole, the vast majority of which is notoriously terrible.

Regenerator is one of the best abilities in the entire game, calling it a "nice little bonus" is an understatement. Not to mention that with the enormous threat Ho-Oh presents, every team should be able to force it out. That being said, considering Ho-Oh has superb coverage with 2 moves and essentially perfect coverage with 3 moves, so it's hard to find better options over Roost (although Choice/Assault Vest sets should be viable).

 

[syzygian]

Regenerator is one of the best abilities in the entire game, calling it a "nice little bonus" is an understatement. Not to mention that with the enormous threat Ho-Oh presents, every team should be able to force it out. That being said, considering Ho-Oh has superb coverage with 2 moves and essentially perfect coverage with 3 moves, so it's hard to find better options over Roost (although Choice/Assault Vest sets should be viable).

Never said it wasn't an awesome ability. Just saying it should not be relied upon at the expense of legitimate healing.

 

[Annabeth]

What about Tailwind Ho-oh with Defog and sun support ?

Something like this :
Ho-oh@Life Orb
Adamant 80HP/252Atk/176Spe
Tailwind
Sacred Fire
Brave Bird
Earthquake/Roost

 

[Hack]

Yeah, ho-oh can pull that off very nicely but more flexible options such as toxic/sub/whirlwind/eq should be considered first if your team needs them.

Ps. 176 speed on tw sets, not 172

 

[Annabeth]

Ok and for a standard tank set like this :

Sacred Fire
Brave Bird
Substitute
Roost

Do you think using Earthquake (maybe with Life Orb) over Substitute is interesting ?
Do you think using Defense EVs is a good option ? Which spread would you recommend ?

 

[Hack]

To give an answer your questions; I'd say yes to both. Max defense along with max HP (add some minor speed creep) goes a long way checking prominent threats like Ekiller, Mewtwo, Rayquaza other Ho-oh (very iffy still) along with the usual ability to go head to head with CM Arceus (which are kinda rare) and other special attackers as long as you keep SR away.

 

[ogasian]

All I can say is while you pussies are running Physically Defensive Ho-oh and whatnot imma be chillin' witht my 176 speed Banded one.

Jokes aside, Banded Ho-oh is awesome! (as well as sub roost bit meh) Sacred Fire's burn chance is incredibly gay.

 

[Annabeth]

Ho-oh has many great options : tank (sub/roost), band or tailwind/flame charge.
I would like to try banded Ho-oh, but I have already 2 choice items (one Scarf and one Band), I guess 3 choice items in a team might be too much... ?

 

[michaeloche]

I saw a Ho-oh with Iron Head the other day. How viable do you think that really is? The only worthwhile things I could see it used against are Arceus-Rock and Tyranitar. Even Brave Bird hits neutrally harder than a SE Iron Head (e.g. Xerneas and Kyurem-W). I guess it might be okay on banded sets or if you want to avoid BB's recoil, but you still have Regenerator for that.

 

[Blue Jay]

I saw a Ho-oh with Iron Head the other day. How viable do you think that really is? The only worthwhile things I could see it used against are Arceus-Rock and Tyranitar. Even Brave Bird hits neutrally harder than a SE Iron Head (e.g. Xerneas and Kyurem-W). I guess it might be okay on banded sets or if you want to avoid BB's recoil, but you still have Regenerator for that.

Iron Head destroys Carbink, but is awful outside of that. Earthquake hits Rock types harder, while also being Ho-Oh's best option against Heatran, Zekrom, Dialga (outside sun), while Brave Bird is more powerful against most Fairy types (and Sacred Fire comes close in neutral weather while totally outdamaging it in sun, if recoil is a concern). Beating one uncommon check would never warrant a moveslot when Ho-Oh already has a lot of nice options.

 

[Annabeth]

I am more and more thinking about using Scarf Ho-oh. Do you think it is viable ?
What EV spread should I use ? What should I put in the 4th slot ? Punishment ? Sleep Talk for countering Darkrai ? Tailwind for a surprising sweep with offensive Groudon or Assault Vest Palkia ?