Horse Power!

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by feriokun, Oct 17, 2012.

  1. feriokun

    feriokun

    Joined:
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    HORSE POWER!

    At a glance:

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    So I wanted to make a team using all 3 legendary horses from gen 5. (Ok more like Deer, Ox, Hammer Head Horse?) Something to challenge myself and hopefully be able to do pretty well in the OU tier. I also wanted a pseudo hyper offensive team, so here goes. Here is how the team makeup started:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Wanting to try out the 3 horses together was the main point of this build. If you're going to suggest something for this team, please make sure these 3 stay! I don't mind swapping their movesets but they are the entire point of the team, to see if I could make them work well together. Lots of fighting attacks yes, but it's actually turned out really effectively! They have surprisingly good synergy as I discovered but also terrible synergy in other aspects. I'll explain more below.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    So next I said, "Ok let's take a look at weakness and resistances to see what these guys need help in." Hmmm, ok 2 fighting weaknesses, and 2 psychic weaknesses, 2 ground weaknesses, and 2 fire weaknesses. Anything else shared? No? Ok moving on. Who resists fighting, psychic, ground, fire or at least 2-3 of them without adding a weakness again. Salamence works out well, resisting fighting, fire, and immunity to ground. Slap a choice scarf mixed moxie-mence and you've got quite a revenge killer to deal with! So far so good...

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    At the suggestion of ganj4lF, I decided to bag Gengar who was originally in the group for a Rotom-Heat. I must say i'm SO glad I did. People were saying use it for the blatant lack of resistance to flying, but I find it so much better then that. With Volt-Switch and Will-O-Wisp, it can scare out nearly ANY threat. It's only weak to water and rock which are common but not as common as the trio's weaknesses, and is resistant to fire, flying, immune to ground... You get the picture, pretty perfect in the Synergy department. More detailed description below!

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now who is resistant to fighting, fire, ground, psychic for SURE now, and can handle some hazzards? Not Tentacruel that's for sure, while he was tempting at a glance once realizing he's weak to ground AND psychic, no way... Oh isn't there another rapid spinner that fits the bill? Oh yeah, Starmie. Starmie resists fighting, psychic, and fire, which helps my trio. My only non hyper offensive bulky Starmie with Thunder Wave. It's an odd set I admit, but getting the Thunder Wave off has allowed my Horsey's to sweep uncontested. Now onto the more in-depth movesets.

    Descriptions:

    [​IMG]

    Cobalion @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 228 Satk / 28 Atk / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Stealth Rock

    Cobalion is my stealth rock user, my "Surprise!" pokemon, my pivot, and my defensive tank. I know that people don't like this guy because "Lucario is better" but they really should play around with him a bit. His typing is AMAZING and he has the stats to back it up! Yes he is weak to alot of common attacks, but unless they are special, they won't be breaking through anytime soon!

    Cobalion loves to surprise those pesky dragons. Expert belt allows OHKOs on Salamence, Dragonite (rocks will break Multiscale), and the new OU Garchomp. Outspeeding all without sashes. With Volt Switch he can come in over and over on certain threats, so he's nearly guaranteed to get his rocks up. With his insane speed I have YET to not get rocks up at some point durring the fight.

    Close Combat may seem like a bad idea, but it's surprisingly powerful on many Pokemon and is amazing for breaking down walls, which he walls himself pretty well. he really only fears paralyze, as he has other moves to back his special side up. Losing power to Close Combat from a burn sucks, but it's not the end there, he can still be an awesome addition throughout the battle!

    Cobalion also is essential switches for Rotom-H and Starmie. Tanking Dark/Ghost/Rock hits like they are nothing.

    [​IMG]

    Terrakion @ Choice Band
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Sdef / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Quick Attack

    We all know it, we've all seen it... Choice band Terrakion hits like several trains colliding at the same time. His defensive typing has decent synergy with itself, though there is much to be desired, but his OFFENSIVE typing is one of the best in the game, bar none. He check SO many threats that he has literally sat at 3% life (from a life orbed Bullet Punch) and swept the rest of the foes team.

    EV are to outspeed everything he possibly can, while maximizing attack. Adamant just isn't worth it as he cleans the house as is, nearly 2HKOing the entire tier in one form of another. He breaks walls, he sweeps. His only issue is that he NEEDS faster Pokemon that could threaten him handled, because while his offense is amazing, he can be 1HKOed himself fairly easily.

    Terrakion is a pretty good partner with Virizion, as he can swap in on fire attacks, and Virizion can swap in on water or ground attacks. But honestly I usually try and use him VERY sparingly, as he can clean house if left unchecked. Quick Attack is pretty meager, but when you have Latios at 15% hp and Terrakion is the only one left, you'll thanks me! Moving on...

    [​IMG]

    Virizion @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Sdef / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Focus Miss (Blast)
    - Giga Drain
    - Calm Mind
    - Hidden Power (Ice)

    This guy... He's WAY better then people give him credit for. Sure he's 400% weak to Flying, but how many Flying attacks besides Hurricane do you see? Also if Tornadus does show up trying to Hurricane, Terrakion can eat it for breakfast with stone edge, Starmie can Thunder Wave, and Gengar can Thunderbolt. Salamence even runs Stone Edge just to help deal with flying types.

    After a Calm Mind boost, this guy can 1HKO a TON of threats, and if you are a special attacker, you'll be hard pressed to kill it thanks to Giga Drains heal. This guy is another great "Pivot". No he doesn't have U-Turn of Volt Switch, but honestly I send this guy in the fray over and over and over. He check so many counters it's just crazy... Maybe a little to crazy!

    This is my other "Surprise!" to Dragons. Oh? I'm Dragonite/Salamence/Glicsor and he's Fighting/Grass so I should completely be able to setup. OH WAIT there's a Calm Minded HP Ice. Aaaand dead. I really kill all the dragons and Gliscor with just Virizion and Cobalion alone. I didn't even need to run any other Ice attacks. Salamence does know Outrage, but it's just for wrecking faces and not for killing other Dragons... Perse. These guys outspeed ALL of the above Ice-weak Pokemon except Scarfs.

    [​IMG]

    Salamence @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Satk / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake

    This guy is just fun but also ESSENTIAL! He is my only scarfed Pokemon with a fire attack so it's his job to take out surprise take out Scizor, Genesect, Ferrothorn, Forrteress, Skarmory (well not entirely on Skarm)... You get the picture. With the new addition of Rotom-H, Scizor is much less scary to deal with. His Choice Scarf allows him to roast any of the above for 1HKOs, save Occa Berry (which isn't very comon) and Priority moves.

    I've been tempted to swap from Moxie to intimidate because he rarely sweeps a team, and Scizor can 2HKO him with bullet punch (if I switch in on him). With Intimidate perhaps he would be more useful? Would also allow him to check other Dragons as all of them are Physical attack save the Latios Twins, but they are rarely Scarfed and or 1HKOed by my Gengar.

    Other moves are just for Coverage really. I've used them all several times. I hate the miss on Stone Edge but sometimes you just don't have a choice. Can't have Flying types running a muck on my 50% fighting team. Also the high crit chance can save, although very unreliable. Earthquake is either awesome, or worthless, just depends on how many flying/Levitate Pokemon the enemy has. Which usually isn't many.

    (Edit) Changed the Nature to Naive to max Speed.

    [​IMG]

    Rotom-H @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Overheat
    - Volt Switch
    - Will-O-Wisp/Thunder Wave
    - Pain Split

    So... Gengar used to be here, but wasn't pulling his weight so he got the BOOT. Sorry Gengar. Now in his place comes the fabulous Rotom-H. The main debate I have with him is to run another Thunder Waver, allowing clean sweeps? Or Will-O-Wisp for crippling attackers? I've been playing around with Will-O-Wisp and while it seems decent, the Thunder Wave might be a better option overall.

    boy was ganj4lF ever right in saying he wins out in the Synergy department. He also vastly helps in the sun, resisting nearly every common sun Pokemon, and never getting trapped by Dugtrio, allowing me a number of options in finishing it off. He counters everything from Bulky water types (which he can outspeed and swap with super effective damage to a more appropriate counter) Also his special defense is through the roof, so he can even take quite a few special water attacks with no worries.

    Virizion and Cobalion were my pivots before, but this guy just keeps coming in over and over. Likely because he walls EVERYTHING that hurts the trio, save water attacks which only hurts 1 of the 3. He takes Ice hits like a champ and just spreads status. Garchomp even has a hard time with it since Painsplit plus Overheat can very well heal him to full and score the KO. All other Dragons that come in are either crippled by Burn, or Crippled by Thunder Wave, either way, their sweep ends there.

    [​IMG]

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Satk / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Scald
    - Thunder Wave
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover

    You would be amazed at how many people think Starmie is hyper offensive, just to get Thunder Waved into oblivion. Also Natural Cure is CONSTANTLY forgotten. Oh Toxic? Thanks for letting me cripple you with Thunder Wave so my sweepers can sweep.

    Starmie is GREAT as getting rid of hazzards. He serves as my lead more often then you would think. If Infernape, Heatran, Donphan, are seen and it's pretty clear what they are going to do, I send out Starmie. While Tyranitar can be a pain due to it's dark typing, and Deoxys-D can be troublesome, they can EASILY be handled by the rest of my team. Gengar forces Deoxys-D to get but 1 Hazzard of it's choice out before it's KOed by Shadow Ball, which Starmie will spin away and their suicide setup is no more and no hazzards on my side. ANY of the Horses beat Tyranitar one on one. Virizion has the most issues due to the special defense boost, but I wouldn't send him out again'st T-tar unless I had to.

    Starmie can check SO many statusers with it's Natural Cure. I'm not even sure why they bother, because any status I have, I can just scald and get a burn, or just T-wave right off depending on how much of a sweeper threat they are. Starmie actually walls most water types and can consistently recover off damage from a surprising amount of threats.

    At a glance:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Thanks for reading! Be sure to leave a comment/rate, and if you don't have any suggestions, be sure to luvdisc if you love horses!
  2. Asek

    Asek Mirror my malady, Transfer my tragedy
    is a Team Rater Alumnus
    Mentor

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    Salamence switched in and revenge killed dragonite with ease.

    Cool team though man, have to like your creativity with team building and incorporating some weird and wonderful sets here! I really don't want to kill of any of the cool stuff you have going on here, as creativity is a hard thing to come by in an OU team these days, but I would definitly switch Salamences nature to Naive. This gives you the speed nessecary to revenge kill +1 postive natured Hydreigon and Haxorus, the abilty to outspeed genesect (very important!!!!) and speed tie with +1 max speed volcarona as well as Scarf Jirachi and opposing Salamence. The loss of power isn't that notciable compared to the stuff you outspeed, as once you pick up that moxie boost, you will have enough power to muscle through nearly everything in the tier that doesn't resist you.

    Now, gengar's current set really needs Focus Blast > Sludge Bomb. Your current set is an invitation for ferrothorn, Forretress, Genesect and Scizor to come in and beat up on you with their respective moves, have you have nothing here to hit them for respectable damage with your current set. Focus Blast remedies that with a high power, but unfortunately inaccurate move that grants you perfect coverage. Sludge Bomb although cool as a secondary STAB move doesn't offer your set anything coverage wise, and is not a very good STAB at all compared to shadow ball, which you would use a lot more often

    GL with the team
  3. bubbly

    bubbly

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    Hey, cool team. You do look extremely weak to Flying, as well as most Psychic and Ghost types, since you haven't covered the three Fighting types' weaknesses as well you might. Also, Amoonguss really walls your entire team, you need some way to seriously hurt it. Basically, I think you need to replace Gengar, because it really isn't doing anything for your team which your other members can't. There are a few viable things which could go there instead, such as specially defensive Zapdos or SpDef Jirachi. I think Zapdos in particular would be a great fit, because the things which are usually brought out to counter it (Tyranitar, Blissey, SpDef Heatran) are fodder for your Fighting trio. In addition, if you use a SubRoost set it can set up with ease against Amoonguss.

    Hope that helps :)
  4. feriokun

    feriokun

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    It just has never worked this way. I have 2 pokes that eat Dragonite up. Cobalion will get a 1HKO after Stealth Rock, and Dragonite with no boosts has a hard time KOing it. Sure Virizion would get 1HKOed but if the dragonite is at +0 spe and has ANY prior damage, Virizion wins. Not to mention I can always just T-Wave with Starmie and be done with it.

    I thought I was going for a +Spe nature on Salamence, guess I miss-clicked! But thanks for the advice!

    Also I think you're right about Focus Blast. Even though it's 4 fighting moves, fighting coverage is always nice to have. I've only used sludge bomb a few times and Focus Blast would have still been better in those cases.


    Zapdos sounds like it could work. That would leave me with 3 Pokemon weak to Ice, but I guess most things that would run Ice Beam would be cooked by Zapdos Thunderbolt. Do you think trading the 3 psychic weaknesses and immunities to fighting and normal would be worth 3 ice weaknesses and just a resistance to fighting?
  5. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Hi, cool team you have there. Both Asek and Bubbly's points are valid; I completely support Asek's suggestion to run a +speed nature on Salamence, since it allows to speed tie with many things and, notably, to outspeed all non-Rock-Polish Genesects. Also I agree with Bubbly that Gengar looks like the weakest link in your team; you don't really need a spinblocker, and while an additional Fighting immunity is nice, you make yourself extremely weak to Psychic attacks, while doing nothing for your Flying weakness (which is much harsher than the Fighting one, since Bulky Starmie is a boss and you already have another resistance in Salamence, while you don't have a single resist to Flying). To fix this problem, you could try to run a Specially Defensive Rotom-H instead of Gengar. Rotom-H would form a FWG core with Virizion and Starmie, and can check Tornadus-T, the main OU user of Flying attacks, perfectly, since even after SR it only 3HKOs with Hurricane. It also checks a lot of threats in this meta, namely Genesect (every attack commonly carried is resisted), Venusaur (very valuable since your team is kinda weak to it otherwise) after Sleep Clause is active or if it doesn't carry Sleep Powder, and many others. It also comes with the ability to deal a great chunk of damage to Amoonguss: Overheat deals 62.5 - 74.07% to 252/216+ Amoonguss in clear skies, and it also can WoW the mushroom to gradually wear it down. Your team already provides Spin support, so SR weakness is not that threatening.

    Rotom-H (open)
    [​IMG]
    Rotom-H @ Leftovers | Levitate
    Calm | 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    - Overheat
    - Volt Switch
    - Will-O-Wisp / Toxic / Thunder Wave
    - Pain Split


    Also, another little suggestion: while T-Wave Starmie is awesome, if you find Amoonguss troubling even with Rotom-H, you can run Psyshock on Starmie instead of T-Wave. Psyshock always 2HKOs the previously considered 252/216+ Amoonguss after SR, which is quite nice since Starmie can lure in Amoonguss all day. T-Wave is indeed attractive, so it's up to you to find the best alternative. Psyshock also comes with the bonus to make Starmie a much better check for Keldeo, since it can handily 2HKO.

    Hope it helped! Good luck for your team.
  6. feriokun

    feriokun

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    This is an awesome suggestion! Rotom-H not only helps as a pivot but is only weak to water/rock, which is covered by Virizion, and to a lesser extent Cobalion/Starmie (rock/water respectively). It also resists Flying, Fire, Immune to Ground, super resists Steel (for Terrakion) and adds 1 more fire move to the arsenal.

    My only question would be, how would you deal with the Lati-Twins?

    Also for those above that say I have a glaring weakness to flying. You realize that Virizion is my only Pokemon WEAK to it (Albeit 400%). The others are neutral. Just thought I would point that out. :)

    I'm more concerned that they share so many weaknesses between at least 2 of them. (Psychic, Fire, Fighting, and Ground) 3 of the 4 being extremely common in OU.
  7. tintinwong

    tintinwong

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    That's somewhat the point. Nothing resists flying, making it an option to sweep with.
  8. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    This heavily depends on the situation and the set they're carrying. Salamence can revenge all non scarfed Lati@s easily, and even Choice Specs Draco Meteor won't OHKO Rotom-H, provided that hazards are off the field; you can then proceed to Pain Split and Volt Switch out safely. The most threatening is probably SubCM Latias, your best bet here is to catch it with T-Wave / WoW or just keep using X-Scissor on it (+1 Latias only 2HKOs Terrakion if it doesn't carry Psyshock, and if it Subs on the switch it may even lose). I guess you can play around them somewhat, but I can see it's quite problematic. Try to play a bit with Rotom in your team, and if they're still hard to take down you'll probably want to change some other team member to a Steel type (for example Cobalion, that is indeed awesome but sucks at absorbing special attacks).
  9. feriokun

    feriokun

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    You make a good point!

    I will DEFINITELY be trying out Rotom-H. First with Will-O-Wisp and if i'm not feeling it then Thunder Wave.

    Can X-Scissor on Choice Band Terrakion 1HKO Lati-twins with no sub or prior boosts?
  10. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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    You'd want to play around with this, instead of asking those kind of questions on the forums:

    http://honko.freehosting.com/manly_calc.html

    Anyway, CB Terrakion's X-Scissor vs standard 252/0 SubCM Latias: 284-336 (78.02 - 92.3%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
  11. feriokun

    feriokun

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    Thanks for the link and answer!
  12. bubbly

    bubbly

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    Just pointing out that whatever you decide for the 5th member (and Rotom-H does fit wonderfully there, nice suggestion Mr. Starchy Tuber), physically defensive CM or even Sub Latias will absolutely beat you 101% of the time. Phys Def Latias can easily Reflect on 3 of your team members, then sweep, and you really can't do anything to stop it beyond paralysing it and hoping for hax. Just something to think about for you and any future raters.
  13. feriokun

    feriokun

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    Is there nothing that can be done about this? What about a more offensive variant of Starmie?
  14. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Starmie's Ice Beam is not strong enough to stop Latias from CMing on it and then sweep. With LO, it can 2HKO after Stealth Rock, but if Latias gets one CM boost in some way, Starmie must hope in freeze hax as it gets worn down by Life Orb while Latias Recovers and CMs again. Lefties Starmie can't hope to break through Latias at all, so I guess changing your Starmie set is not the way to solve this problem.

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