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Houndour (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Furai, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Old thread by Elevator_Music

    QC Checks: comatthew6, Moo
    GP Checks: Zystral, V0x

    Change Log:
    • On the mixed set, HP Fighting > HP Ground for hitting both Deino and Houndour
    • Same set, slashed Flame Charge with Sucker Punch and removed Flame Charge set
    • Scarf set: 1) HP Fighting > HP Ground, 2) Hasty first slash to make Pursuit stronger

    [​IMG]

    [Overview]
    <p>Houndour is a notable force in Little Cup, and this is mostly because it is one of the hardest Pokemon to switch into. The combination of its two STABs are only resisted by opposing Houndour, Deino, and Thick Fat Makuhita; the latter is a rare sight on the battlefield, and the former two are still questionable answers. This great coverage, combined with Houndour's impressive attacking stats, gives it huge potential as a mixed attacker and wall breaker when in the hands of a competent player. However, Houndour is frail, only hits 17 Speed, and is weak to priority. These factors cause Houndour to be very easy to revenge kill. It is also weak to Stealth Rock, which puts an even bigger limit on its already short lifespan.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Attacker
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Dark Pulse / Crunch
    move 3: Hidden Power Fighting / Substitute
    move 4: Sucker Punch / Flame Charge
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Flash Fire
    nature: Hasty
    evs: 36 Atk / 200 SpA / 240 Spe
    ivs: 3 HP

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>This is Houndour's most effective set, and is what you will most frequently encounter. With STAB Fire Blast and Dark Pulse, Houndour 2HKOes a majority of the metagame, allowing it to decimate more defensive teams that lack Pokemon to deal with it. Hidden Power Fighting picks off opposing Houndour and Deino, and it also is Houndour's best move against Rock-types. As Houndour only hits 17 Speed, Sucker Punch helps give it the upper hand against many of the Pokemon that outspeed and threaten it, such as Diglett and Gastly. Watch out, however, as many Pokemon (including the aforementioned two) often use Substitute to get around Sucker Punch. With an HP IV of 3 Houndour hits 19 HP, minimizing Life Orb recoil while retaining full power on Hidden Power.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Crunch can be used over Dark Pulse to hit specially bulky Pokemon such as Munchlax harder; however, without a Lonely nature and max Attack Houndour probably won't hit them hard enough, and it really needs the Speed. Due to the fact that Houndour's speed is not sky-high, Flame Charge can be used over Sucker Punch to raise your speed by one level to mimic a Choice Scarf and outspeed many things that might switch in, such as Diglett and Gastly, while still being able to switch moves. However priority will come in handy in more situations, for example against Sand Rush Drilbur, which takes 59.09% minimum of its health from Sucker Punch. Substitute is also aoptional, as Houndour 2HKOes many Pokemon, so if you can set up a Substitute while the opponent switches, Houndour will almost definitely get a KO. It also works well in tandem with Sucker Punch by forcing the opponent to attack. If you do use Substitute, it would be best to use it over Hidden Power, as Houndour doesn't really need it as much as the other moves to score its 2HKOes. Hidden Power Ground can be used instead of Hidden Power Fighting as it hits for super effective damage on Chinchou, but then you lose against Deino, another one of the few Pokemon that resist both Fire- and Dark-type attacks.</p>

    <p>Good teammates for Houndour are able to switch into the Pokemon that will come in to revenge kill it. Both Frillish and Slowpoke are able to deal with Croagunk, while Slowpoke deals with Timburr, another Pokemon that poses a big threat to Houndour with its STAB Mach Punch. Ferroseed can take on the bulky Water-types that will switch into Houndour such as Staryu, Chinchou, and Omanyte. It can also support Houndour with entry hazards to punish the opponent for the switches Houndour forces, and can use Thunder Wave to bring even fast opponents down to a speed below Houndour's. In exchange, Houndour can cover Ferroseed's weakness to Fire-type attacks. A Chinchou of your own can also help deal with the aforementioned Water-type Pokemon, and can easily bring Houndour in safely using Volt Switch on an opponent's switch.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Fire Blast / Overheat
    move 2: Dark Pulse
    move 3: Hidden Power Ground
    move 4: Pursuit / Flamethrower
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Flash Fire
    nature: Hasty / Timid
    evs: 36 Atk / 200 SpA / 236 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Because of Houndour's excellent Special Attack and great coverage, it makes for a fantastic user of Choice Scarf. The main strategy with this set is to get Houndour in safely and spam its STAB Fire Blast, using other moves when appropriate. Dark Pulse is Houndour's strongest move against most Water-types, and Hidden Power Fighting hits other Houndour, as well as Deino, hardest. Pursuit can be used to make Houndour a decent makeshift Gastly check; with Choice Scarf, Houndour easily outspeeds it, so when Gastly switches out expecting a Dark Pulse it will be KOed by Pursuit instead. Be cautious when using Pursuit though, because if your opponent has something such as Scraggy waiting in the wings then they will easily be able to set up on Houndour afterwards. If you don't care about trapping Gastly, Flamethrower is a reliable choice for those who are paranoid about Fire Blast misses.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Overheat can be used instead of Fire Blast if you choose to employ more of a hit-and-run strategy, though at -2, Houndour is easy set up bait for all sorts of sweepers, so make sure you have answers to those sweepers. Hidden Power Ground can be used on this set as well; however, Hidden Power fighting hits both opposing Houndour and Deino, and Dark Pulse will 2HKO Chinchou anyway.</p>

    <p>Good teammates can help to deal with the specially bulky Pokemon that can actually take Houndour's attacks. Mienfoo and Croagunk are very good partners, as, with their STAB moves, they can mess up specially bulky Pokemon such as Lileep and Munchlax. Once again, all the aforementioned teammates can work here; Slowpoke can take priority from Timburr or Croagunk and land some damage with Scald or Psychic, Frillish can do the same but will do worse against Timburr, as Frillish has nothing to hit Timburr hard with, and it should not be burned due to Guts. Ferroseed and Chinchou can take on bulky Water-types such as Staryu, Omanyte, and Chinchou. The former can also lay down Spikes and lure in Fire-type attacks, which Houndour will appreciate because of Flash Fire, while the latter can simply bring in Houndour safely with Volt Switch.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Houndour gets access to Nasty Plot, and, with wide arsenal of special attacks, it can wreck many teams once the boost has been applied. However, using Nasty Plot makes you prone to revenge killing, as Houndour has no priority and it is not fast enough. Houndour can also use Thunder Fang to hit Water-types; however, Crunch has more use than Thunder Fang and it will be pretty weak anyway. Will-O-Wisp, Taunt, and Embargo are great support moves that Houndour has access to, but Houndour is not bulky enough to pull them off. Early Bird can be used as an ability over Flash Fire to deal Gastly's Hypnosis, which might come in handy in teams that have Fire-type moves covered and fear Gastly. Houndour can also run a lead set with Focus Sash, however that's a bit outdated because of Team Preview. Foul Play can also be used to sneak an attack in on opposing physical attacks, but this is extremely situational.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]
    <p>Munchlax and Thick Fat Makuhita are the best counters. Munchlax can take anything Houndour can throw at it and hit back with STAB Return or a super effective Earthquake, whereas Makuhita resists both of Houndour's STABs because of its ability, Thick Fat, and can land some damage using its super effective STAB. Deino resists both of your STABs too and is able to OHKO it with its Hustle boosted STAB Outrage. However, Deino must be wary of Hidden Power Fighting in case it's not using Eviolite. Timburr and Croagunk cannot switch into Houndour because of Fire Blast; however, they can kill Houndour with their STAB priority moves. Because Houndour is very frail, pretty much any Choice Scarf user that can actually land some damage will kill it, unless that Choice Scarf user is named Gastly, which gets OHKOed by Sucker Punch, or Snover, which can't touch Houndour. Diglett fears Sucker Punch, but if coupled with Substitute and some prediction, Diglett can defeinetly defeat Houndour. Lileep is very bulky, and takes neutral damage if Houndour is not running Hidden Power Fighting; however, it cannot do anything back besides stalling it out using Recover. Due to Houndour's typing, it is weak to Stealth Rock, which can limit its lifespan on the field.</p>

    [Dream World]
    <p>Unnerve is an ability that prevents the opponent from using it's held berry. This ability is very situational because not many Pokemin use berries this days, especially in a metagame where Eviolite is more popular than Oran Berry by miles, so Unnerve is not really worth it.</p>
  2. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    This is Written!

    Ready for GP Checks.

    One question; do you guys think Foul Play deserves a mention in Other Options?
  3. Zystral

    Zystral めんどくさい、な~
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    Questionable parts here and there.
    Please don't forget your HTML tags.
    A valiant effort. You're getting there.
    Please try a little harder in future to fix your own mistakes before submitting.

    1/2 approved
  4. metsrule158

    metsrule158 Don't disturb him on his break.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Yeah, I guess Foul Play could get a mention in OO. Not many, if any at all, would use it, but I guess it deserves to be there.
  5. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Many thanks, Zystral! Kinda counted in EM to have the HTML tags, should've checked.
    I will add in Foul Play tomorrow with the rest of the GP check.
    EDIT: Implemented Zystral's GP check.
  6. V0x

    V0x 4
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    Found some time to do this
    -remember that using "while" as a conjunction implies an option between the two things.
    "Dark Pulse is Houndour's strongest move against most Water-types, while and Hidden Power Ground hits other Houndour, as well as Chinchou, hardest."
    HP Ground is not slashed with Dark Pulse, so "and" is more appropriate.
    -don't use "you" to refer to the Pokemon; "you" can refer to the trainer
    -don't use "however" to replace "but"

    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>Houndour is a notable force in Little Cup, and this is mostly because it is one of the hardest Pokemon to switch into. The combination of its two STABs are only resisted by opposing Houndour, Deino, and Thick Fat Makuhita; the latter is a rare sight on the battlefield, and the former two are still questionable answers. This great coverage, combined with Houndour's impressive attacking stats, gives it huge potential as a mixed attacker and wall breaker when in the hands of a competent player. However, Houndour is frail, only hits 17 Speed, and is weak to priority. These factors cause Houndour to be very easy to revenge kill. It is also weak to Stealth Rock, which puts an even bigger limit on its already short lifespan.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Attacker
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Dark Pulse / Crunch
    move 3: Hidden Power Fighting / Substitute
    move 4: Sucker Punch / Flame Charge
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Flash Fire
    nature: Hasty
    evs: 36 Atk / 200 SpA / 240 Spe
    ivs: 3 HP

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Houndour's most effective set, and it is what you will most frequently encounter. With STAB Fire Blast and Dark Pulse, Houndour 2HKOes a majority of the metagame, allowing it to shine against to decimate more defensive teams that lack Pokemon to deal with it. Hidden Power Fighting picks off opposing Houndour and Deino, and it also is Houndour's best move against Rock-types. As Houndour only hits 17 Speed, Sucker Punch helps give it the upper hand against many of the Pokemon that outspeed and threaten it, such as Diglett and Gastly.[period] Watch out, however, as many Pokemon (including the aforementioned two) often use Substitute to get around Sucker Punch. , although many Pokemon (including the aforementioned two) often use Substitute to try and get around Sucker Punch, so you should be wary of that. With an HP IV of 3 Houndour hits 19 HP, minimizing Life Orb recoil while retaining full power on Hidden Power.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Crunch can be used over Dark Pulse to hit specially bulky Pokemon such as Munchlax harder; however, without a Lonely nature and max Attack Houndour it probably won't hit them hard enough, and it Houndour really needs the Speed. Due to the fact that Houndour's speed is not sky-high, Flame Charge can be used over Sucker Punch to raise your speed by one level to mimic a Choice Scarf and outspeed many things that might switch in, such as Diglett and Gastly, while still being able to switch moves. However priority will come in handy in more situations, for example against Sand Rush Drilbur,[comma] which takes 59.09% minimum of its health from Sucker Punch. Substitute is also an option,[comma] as Houndour 2HKOes many Pokemon, so if you it can get a Substitute up while the opponent switches,[comma] Houndour will almost definitely get a KO. It also works well in tandem with Sucker Punch by forcing the opponent to attack. If you do use Substitute, it would be best to use it over Hidden Power, as Houndour doesn't really need it as much as the other moves to score its 2HKOes. Hidden Power Ground can be used instead of Hidden Power Fighting as it hits for super effective damage on Chinchou, but then you lose against Deino, another one of the few Pokemon that resist both Fire- and Dark-type attacks.</p>

    <p>Good teammates for Houndour are able to switch into the Pokemon that will come in to revenge kill it. Both Frillish and Slowpoke are able to deal with Croagunk, while Slowpoke also deals with Timburr, another Pokemon that poses a big threat to Houndour with its STAB Mach Punch. Ferroseed can take on the bulky Water-types that will switch into Houndour such as Staryu, Chinchou, and Omanyte. It can also support Houndour with entry hazards to punish the opponent for the switches Houndour forces, and can use Thunder Wave to bring even fast opponents down to a speed below Houndour's. In exchange, Houndour can cover Ferroseed's weakness to Fire-type attacks. A Chinchou of your own can also help deal with the aforementioned Water-type Pokemon, and can easily bring Houndour in safely using Volt Switch on an opponent's switch.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Fire Blast / Overheat
    move 2: Dark Pulse
    move 3: Hidden Power Ground
    move 4: Pursuit / Flamethrower
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Flash Fire
    nature: Timid / Hasty
    evs: 36 Atk / 36 Def / 200 SpA / 236 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With Because of Houndour's excellent Special Attack and great coverage, it makes for a fantastic user of Choice Scarf. The main strategy with this set is to get Houndour in safely and spam its STAB Fire Blast, using other moves when appropriate. Dark Pulse is Houndour's strongest move against most Water-types, while and Hidden Power Ground hits other Houndour, as well as Chinchou, hardest. Pursuit can be used to make Houndour a decent makeshift Gastly check; with Choice Scarf, Houndour easily outspeeds it, so when Gastly switches out expecting a Dark Pulse it will be KOed by Pursuit instead. Be cautious when using Pursuit though, because if your opponent has something such as Scraggy waiting in the wings then they will easily be able to set up on Houndour afterwards. If you don't care about trapping Gastly, Flamethrower is a reliable choice for those who are paranoid about Fire Blast misses.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Overheat can be used instead of Fire Blast if you choose to employ more of a hit-and-run strategy, though at -2, Houndour is easy set up bait for all sorts of sweepers, so make sure you have answers to that those sweepers. Hidden Power Fighting can be used on this set as well; however, Chinchou is much more common that Deino, so unless you really need the extra insurance against Deino, it's generally not worth it.</p>

    <p>Good teammates can help to deal with the specially bulky Pokemon that can actually take Houndour's attacks. Mienfoo and Croagunk are very good partners,[comma] as, with their STAB moves, they can mess up with specially Specially bulky Pokemon such as Lileep and Munchlax with their super effective STAB moves. Once again, all the aforementioned teammates can work here; Slowpoke can take priority from Timburr or Croagunk and land some damage with Scald or Psychic, Frillish can do the same but will do worse against Timburr,[comma] as Frillish has nothing to hit hard Timburr hard with, and it cannot should not be burned due to Guts. Ferroseed and Chinchou can take on bulky Water-types such as Staryu, Omanyte, and Chinchou. The former can also lay down Spikes and lure in Fire-type attacks, which Houndour will appreciate because of Flash Fire, while the latter can simply bring in Houndour safely with Volt Switch.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Houndour gets access to Nasty Plot, and,[comma] with wide arsenal of special attacks, it can wreck many teams once the boost has been applied. However, using Nasty Plot makes you prone to revenge killing, as you it has have no priority and Houndour is not fast enough. Houndour can also use Thunder Fang to hit Water-types; however,[comma] Crunch has more use than Thunder Fang and it will be pretty weak anyway. Will-O-Wisp, Taunt, and Embargo are great support moves that Houndour has gets access to, but o, however Houndour is not bulky enough to pull them off. Early Bird can be used as an ability over Flash Fire to deal Gastly's Hypnosis, which might come in handy in teams that have Fire-type moves covered and fear Gastly. Houndour can also run a lead set with Focus Sash, however that's a bit outdated because of Team Preview. Foul Play can also be used to sneak an attack in on opposing physical attacks, but this is extremely situational.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Munchlax and Thick Fat Makuhita are the best counters your best bets. Munchlax can take anything Houndour can throw at it and hit back with STAB Return or a super effective Earthquake, whereas Makuhita resists both of your STABs because of its ability, Thick Fat, and can land some damage using its super effective STAB. Deino resists both of your Houndour's STABs too and is able to OHKO you it with its Hustle boosted STAB Outrage. However, Deino must be wary of Hidden Power Fighting in case you're Houndour is not using Eviolite. Timburr and Croagunk cannot switch into Houndour because of Fire Blast; however,[comma] they can kill Houndour with their STAB priority moves. Because Houndour is very frail, pretty much any Choice Scarf user that can actually land some damage will kill it, unless that Choice Scarf user is named Gastly, which gets OHKOed by Sucker Punch, or Snover, which can't touch Houndour. Diglett fears Sucker Punch, but if coupled with Substitute and some prediction, Diglett can defeinetly defeat Houndour. Lileep is very bulky, and takes neutral damage,[remove comma] if Houndour is not running Hidden Power Fighting; however,[comma] it cannot do anything back besides stalling it out using Recover. Due to Houndour's typing, it is weak to Stealth Rock,[comma] which can limit its lifespan on the field.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Unnerve is really not worth it in a metagame where Eviolite is more popular than Oran Berry by miles.</p> maybe a description of Unnerve as well


    well written
    [​IMG] 2/2
  7. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Implemented the GP check, however there are some stuff that I don't get:

    • "Substitute is also an option,[comma] as Houndour 2HKOes many Pokemon, so if you it can get a Substitute up while the opponent switches,[comma] Houndour will almost definitely get a KO."
    'You' refers to the person which picks the moves, so I disagree with that correction.

    • "However, using Nasty Plot makes you prone to revenge killing, as you it has have no priority and Houndour is not fast enough."
    I simply changed your correction to Houndour, and then where it says Houndour I changed it to 'it'. Is that correct?

    • I also added a description care to check? :P



    Now for other members; I noticed I did not change HP Ground to Fighting on the Scarf set. Do you think I should? I think I should keep it because Chinchou is by far one of the most common scarfers, and hitting him for super effective damage should help Houndour a lot.
  8. V0x

    V0x 4
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    I see where you're coming from. However, the wording "get a Sub up" suggests the doer of the action is the thing that creates the Substitute to hide behind, which in this case is Houndour. Perhaps a better way to word it is "if you can set up a Substitute" or something. Anyway, this is really nit picky and can feasible go either way. Take your pick.
    Yeah, it's correct. I was being lazy tbh, your way actually sounds better. And the description is good.
  9. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    Alright, thanks a lot V0x!

    This is now Done!
  10. macle

    macle ribbit
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    uploaded

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