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Houndour (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Heysup, Oct 4, 2010.

  1. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    vadredit: iss took this over since in your post in loa you said we can reassign
    have fun at camp!!

    http://veekun.com/dex/pokemon/houndour
    [Overview]

    <p>Houndour is one of the hardest Pokemon to switch into in LC because of its excellent STAB coverage and offensive stats. Once in, Houndour has very few reliable counters. Getting a faster Pokemon that can OHKO Houndour is often not enough since STAB Sucker Punch can OHKO many frail Pokemon. In addition to being hard to switch into, Houndour makes a decent Ghost-type trapper with STAB Pursuit. If the sun is up, Houndour makes a terrifying sweeper with Fire Blast and SolarBeam. It can also be quite effective for gaining early-game momentum as an anti-lead.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Attacker
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Crunch
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Sucker Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Flash Fire
    nature: Lonely
    evs: 196 Atk / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 76 Spe
    ivs: 0 HP

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>One of the hardest sets to switch into because of its amazing STAB coverage and power. Fire Blast and Crunch hit everything but Carvanha and other Houndour for neutral damage, however those two Pokemon are 2HKOed anyway (Carvanha can be OHKOed). Substitute is very useful to ease prediction, especially considering that opponents will likely be forced to switch and predict around Houndour's attacks to survive. Sucker Punch is Houndour's most useful tool for being a pseudo-revenge killer as well as stopping other Pokemon from revenge killing it.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Houndour can use Hidden Power Fighting to deal with opposing Houndour more effectively. Pursuit can be used over Substitute or Crunch to deal with Ghosts, but Crunch is generally a more reliable sweeping move than Sucker Punch, and Pursuit cannot hit Pokemon on the switch.</p>

    <p>Since very few Pokemon can switch into Houndour, it is most important to deal with Pokemon that can come in to revenge kill. Croagunk makes a good revenge killer for Houndour, so carrying something like Frillish or Gligar will be useful. Ferroseed makes a great switch-in for Pokemon such as Carvanha who may also being trying to beat Houndour. Omanyte is uncommon, but preparing for it in the sand is not a bad idea.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Fire Blast

    move 2: Dark Pulse
    move 3: Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Grass
    move 4: Pursuit / SolarBeam
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Flash Fire
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 200 SpA / 40 SpD / 240 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Due to its high offensive stats, Houndour makes a great Choice Scarf user. Fire Blast is Houndour's main sweeping attack because of its sheer power. If you need a more reliable finisher, Dark Pulse is quite useful, and it also has great neutral coverage with Fire Blast. Hidden Power Fighting hits opposing Houndour, Munchlax, and Carvanha which could otherwise fend off a Fire Blast or Dark Pulse. Pursuit is useful in the last
    slot to trap Ghost-types, but SolarBeam is a must-have if Houndour is being used on a team with Sunny Day or Drought.</p>
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]


    <p>Munchlax can switch into this variant quite easily since it has no STAB Crunch. A Munchlax lure, such as Magby, Elekid, or Croagunk are effective ways of getting around it. Otherwise, having Frillish to take Munchlax's attacks and spread Will-O-Wisp is a good idea. Croagunk and Munchlax are both useful, the former for switching into Carvanha's Aqua Jet and the latter for fending off other Croagunk and dealing damage to the opponent's team.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Choice Band and purely physical sets are discouraged mainly because Fire Fang is so lackluster, especially compared to Fire Blast. Nasty Plot can be used as well, but most teams can barely switch into Houndour as it is. It can be trouble for pure stall teams, however. A lead set could also be used, however if the opponent carries a counter lead, Houndour becomes essentially dead weight.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Munchlax is a fairly reliable counter, however, it definitely needs to steer clear of Crunch as much as possible. Bulky Water-types such as bulky Omanyte, and even the rare Wooper can switch in reliably. With an Evolution Stone, Dokkora can barely take a Fire Blast, but Mach Punch allows it to check Houndour quite effectively. Similarly, Carvanha and Croagunk cannot switch into Houndour but they can revenge kill it with priority.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Having two immunities is one of Houndour's main selling points. Flash Fire is too good to pass up to any other ability, especially since most Pokemon carry Evolution Stone over Oran Berry.</p>
  2. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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  3. Dracoyoshi8

    Dracoyoshi8 weapon of mass seduction
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    Maybe slash Substitute next to Sucker Punch on the Nitro Charge set? SubNitro sounds like it could be effective just in case you don't get that Speed boost the first time. It should probably be mentioned in OC at least.
  4. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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  5. (makeup)

    (makeup)
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    About Trickery, since you're unsure about mechanics, it's a 95 base power dark move that uses your opponent's attack stat rather than yours.
  6. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    Really? What about Evo-stone? Munchlax and Mantyke look like they could take anything Houndour has, and Rock-pokemon in sandstorm, like Nosepass or something, would prolly work too.
  7. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    This was made when Berry Juice was around and I was unsure of mechanics, I'll update it.
  8. Al_Alchemist

    Al_Alchemist Physics and Math \O/
    is a SPL Winner

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    I'm not exactly sold on the usefulness of Hidden Power Fighting on the scarf set. The only thing it hits that it's first two moves don't hit as hard is Rock-types who have low SpD anyway, and Munchlax which isn't nearly as common as it was in gen 4 (Cloud Nine Lickitung stole its spot and STAB Fire Blast hits him harder along with a chance to burn him). Hidden Power Grass is much better to cover Rock-Type and Water-Types, anyway, and you still hit neutral Fire Blast for Aron and the Bug/Rock crab thing whom aren't hit SE by grass.

    Wouldn't Hidden Power Rock be much more useful as to not let ghosts switch in and set up in for free and to nail opposing Houndour, Fire-Types (stupid scarfdroughtpix), and Mantyke? Or maybe even HP Water for Fire + Rock Types getting 4x on rock/grounds. Unless I'm missing something shouldn't it be changed to:

    [SET]
    name: ScarfDour
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Dark Pulse
    move 3: Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Grass
    move 4: Pursuit / SolarBeam
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Flash Fire
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 200 SpA / 40 SpD / 240 Spe

    or 196 spa for hp rock
  9. LeviLamprey

    LeviLamprey

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    If you're unsure about Foul Play (Trickery) and it's mechanics, check out the thread on it. There's some discussion on it's competitive viability there too. It should be used when up against physical set-up sweepers, IMO.
  10. SlowBroseph

    SlowBroseph

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    you should probably add frillish to the team options because its immune to water and fighting types.
  11. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    updated, ready for QC.
  12. Zephyr

    Zephyr Life Stream
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    [​IMG]

    Quality Control 1/2

    Make sure there is no Berry Juice mentioned! -Macle
  13. macle

    macle frog jesus died for your sins
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  14. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    Add/Change
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    [Overview]

    <p>Houndour is one of the hardest Pokemon to switch into in LC because of its excellent STAB coverage and offensive stats. Once in, Houndour has very few reliable counters. Getting a faster Pokemon that can OHKO Houndour is often not enough since STAB Sucker Punch can OHKO many frail Pokemon. In addition to being hard to switch into, Houndour makes a decent Ghost-type trapper with STAB Pursuit. If the sun is up, Houndour makes a terrifying sweeper with Fire Blast and SolarBeam. The Anti-Lead is also quite effective for gaining early game momentum.</p>

    [SET]
    name: MixDour
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2:
    Crunch
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Sucker Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Flash Fire
    nature: Lonely
    evs: 196 Atk / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 76 Spe
    ivs: 0 HP

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>One of the hardest sets to switch into because of its amazing STAB coverage and power. Fire Blast and Crunch hit everything but Carvanha and other Houndour for neutral damage, however those two Pokemon are 2HKOed anyway (Carvanha can be OHKOed). Substitute is very useful to ease prediction, especially considering that opponents will likely be forced to switch and predict around Houndour's attacks to survive. Sucker Punch is Houndour's most useful tool for being a pseudo revenge killer as well as stopping other Pokemon from revenge killing.</p> \

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Houndour can use Hidden Power Fighting to deal with opposing Houndour more effectively. Pursuit can be used over Substitute or Crunch to deal with Ghosts, but Crunch is generally a more reliable sweeping move than Sucker Punch, and Pursuit cannot hit Pokemon on the switch.</p>

    <p>Since very few Pokemon can switch into Houndour, it is most important to deal with Pokemon that can come in to revenge kill. Croagunk makes a good revenge killer for Houndour, so carrying something like Frillish or Gligar will be useful. Ferroseed makes a great switch-in for Pokemon such as Carvanha who may also being trying to beat Houndour. Omanyte is uncommon, but preparing for it in the sand is not a bad idea.</p>

    [SET]
    name: ScarfDour
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Dark Pulse
    move 3: Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Grass
    move 4: Pursuit / SolarBeam
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Flash Fire
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 200 SpA / 40 SpD / 240 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Due to its high offensive stats, Houndour makes a great Choice Scarf user. Fire Blast is Houndour's main sweeping attack because of its sheer power. If you need a more reliable finisher, Dark Pulse is quite useful, and it also has great neutral coverage with Fire Blast. Hidden Power Fighting hits opposing Houndour, Munchlax, and Carvanha which otherwise can fend off a Fire Blast or Dark Pulse. Pursuit is useful in the last slot to trap Ghost-types, but SolarBeam is a must-have if houndour is being used on a team with Sunny Day or Drought.</p>
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Munchlax can switch into this variant quite easily since it has no STAB Crunch. A Munchlax lure, such as Magby, Elekid, or Croagunk are effective ways of getting around it. Otherwise, having Frillish to take Munchlax's attacks and spread Will-O-Wisp is a good idea. Croagunk and Munchlax are both useful, the former for switching into Carvanha's Aqua Jet and the latter for fending off other Croagunk and dealing damage to the opponent's team.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Choice Band and purely physical sets are discouraged mainly because Fire Fang is so lackluster, especially compared to Fire Blast. Nasty Plot can be used as well, but most teams can barely switch into Houndour as it is. It becomes useful against pure stall teams, however. A lead set could also be used, however if the opponent carries a counter lead, Houndour becomes essentially dead weight.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Munchlax is a fairly reliable counter, however it definitely needs to steer clear of Crunch as much as possible. Water-types such as bulky Omanyte, and even the rare Wooper can switch in reliably. With an Evolution Stone, Dokkora can barely take a Fire Blast, but Mach Punch allows it to check Houndour quite effectively. Similarly, Carvanha and Croagunk cannot switch into Houndour but they can revenge kill it with priority.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Having two immunities is one of Houndour's main selling points. Flash Fire is too good to pass up to any other ability, especially since most Pokemon carry Evolution Stone over Oran Berry.</p>


    Cool Story bro

    [​IMG]

    1/2 Nah really, good job-- didn't even need me
  15. Aeron Ee1

    Aeron Ee1 Nom nom nom
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    Proofread over Chou Toshio's (open)


    Changes in bold
    Removals in red
    Comments in bold red

    [Overview]

    <p>Houndour is one of the hardest Pokemon to switch into in LC because of its excellent STAB coverage and offensive stats. Once in, Houndour has very few reliable counters. Getting a faster Pokemon that can OHKO Houndour is often not enough since STAB Sucker Punch can OHKO many frail Pokemon. In addition to being hard to switch into, Houndour makes a decent Ghost-type trapper with STAB Pursuit. If the sun is up, Houndour makes a terrifying sweeper with Fire Blast and SolarBeam. It can also be quite effective for gaining early-game momentum as an anti-lead.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Attacker
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Crunch
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Sucker Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Flash Fire
    nature: Lonely
    evs: 196 Atk / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 76 Spe
    ivs: 0 HP

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>One of the hardest sets to switch into because of its amazing STAB coverage and power. Fire Blast and Crunch hit everything but Carvanha and other Houndour for neutral damage, however those two Pokemon are 2HKOed anyway (Carvanha can be OHKOed). Substitute is very useful to ease prediction, especially considering that opponents will likely be forced to switch and predict around Houndour's attacks to survive. Sucker Punch is Houndour's most useful tool for being a pseudo-revenge killer as well as stopping other Pokemon from revenge killing it.</p> \ (<- delete me)

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Houndour can use Hidden Power Fighting to deal with opposing Houndour more effectively. Pursuit can be used over Substitute or Crunch to deal with Ghosts, but Crunch is generally a more reliable sweeping move than Sucker Punch, and Pursuit cannot hit Pokemon on the switch.</p>

    <p>Since very few Pokemon can switch into Houndour, it is most important to deal with Pokemon that can come in to revenge kill. Croagunk makes a good revenge killer for Houndour, so carrying something like Frillish or Gligar will be useful. Ferroseed makes a great switch-in for Pokemon such as Carvanha who may also being trying to beat Houndour. Omanyte is uncommon, but preparing for it in the sand is not a bad idea.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Dark Pulse
    move 3: Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Grass
    move 4: Pursuit / SolarBeam
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Flash Fire
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 200 SpA / 40 SpD / 240 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Due to its high offensive stats, Houndour makes a great Choice Scarf user. Fire Blast is Houndour's main sweeping attack because of its sheer power. If you need a more reliable finisher, Dark Pulse is quite useful, and it also has great neutral coverage with Fire Blast. Hidden Power Fighting hits opposing Houndour, Munchlax, and Carvanha which could otherwise fend off a Fire Blast or Dark Pulse. Pursuit is useful in the last slot to trap Ghost-types, but SolarBeam is a must-have if Houndour is being used on a team with Sunny Day or Drought.</p>
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Munchlax can switch into this variant quite easily since it has no STAB Crunch. A Munchlax lure, such as Magby, Elekid, or Croagunk are effective ways of getting around it. Otherwise, having Frillish to take Munchlax's attacks and spread Will-O-Wisp is a good idea. Croagunk and Munchlax are both useful, the former for switching into Carvanha's Aqua Jet and the latter for fending off other Croagunk and dealing damage to the opponent's team.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Choice Band and purely physical sets are discouraged mainly because Fire Fang is so lackluster, especially compared to Fire Blast. Nasty Plot can be used as well, but most teams can barely switch into Houndour as it is. It can be trouble for pure stall teams, however. A lead set could also be used, however if the opponent carries a counter lead, Houndour becomes essentially dead weight.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Munchlax is a fairly reliable counter, however, (comma) it definitely needs to steer clear of Crunch as much as possible. Bulky Water-types such as bulky Omanyte, and even the rare Wooper can switch in reliably. With an Evolution Stone, Dokkora can barely take a Fire Blast, but Mach Punch allows it to check Houndour quite effectively. Similarly, Carvanha and Croagunk cannot switch into Houndour but they can revenge kill it with priority.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Having two immunities is one of Houndour's main selling points. Flash Fire is too good to pass up to any other ability, especially since most Pokemon carry Evolution Stone over Oran Berry.</p>


    good stuff

    [​IMG] (2/2)
  16. Badal

    Badal Shit
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    Bump just so the small nitpicks from the GP team can be added to the OP
  17. Paradoxus

    Paradoxus

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    actually mention it's DW ability section in the DW section, please, its pretty good in LC, regardless of losing an immunity.
  18. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    thanks didn't see this
  19. (makeup)

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    you mention some banned stuff

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