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How can this Ubers team be improved?

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Mismagius, Apr 16, 2012.

  1. Mismagius

    Mismagius

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    [​IMG]
    Groudon @ Choice Band

    Trait: Drought

    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)

    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw
    - Stone Edge
    - Fire Punch

    I like Choice Banded Groudon a lot because it hits so hard.
    Earthquake is STAB and hits pretty much everything that doesn't resist it or immune very hard.
    Dragon Claw hits Rayquaza and Giratina-O and Dragons in general for massive damage or the KO and has good neutral coverage and Steel types should not really switch into Groudon unless it's Skarmory.
    Stone Edge gets Lugia for excellent damage on the switch and Ho-Oh as well.
    It also gives great coverage along Earthquake forming EdgeQuake.
    Fire Punch checks Forretress Ferrothorn random Scizors (though Eearthquake should do a lot) and always does at least 100% to the standard Specially defensive Uber variant and has a good chance of OHKOing Physical defensive with 252 HP 232 Def Impish after Stealth Rock.

    [​IMG]
    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers

    Trait: Pressure

    EVs: 192 HP / 240 Atk / 76 SpD

    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)

    - Sacred Fire
    - Brave Bird
    - Recover
    - Substitute

    Excellent tank that functions well in sun.
    Sacred Fire is STAB and is boosted by Groudon's ability Drought and has a nice 50% chance of burning the opponent, helping Ho-Oh's weaker defensive side and the rest of the team as well.
    Recover is excellent reliable recovery and I have it over Roost because first Ho-Oh usually doesn't Roost before the opponent.
    Also, the Roosting can be exploited by EQers for massive damage on it unless it's behind the sub.
    Substitute eases prediction, and avoids random annoying status pretty much.

    [​IMG]
    Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb

    Trait: Levitate

    EVs: 244 Atk / 252 SpA / 12 Spe

    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SpD)

    - Draco Meteor
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Dragon Tail

    Draco Meteor is great STAB and is boosted by the Griseous Orb as well and has very good neutral coverage.
    Shadow Sneak is excellent priority to finish off weakened threats, for example Scarfed Kyogre with the bonus of being STAB as well and boosted by Griseous Orb.
    Hidden Power Fire gives Giratina a solid move to use on Forretress who tries to spin away hazards and is boosted by sun, but is not used for "general coverage".
    Dragon Tail phases opponents and racks up entry hazard damage plus the damage from the move itself and is boosted by STAB+Griseous Orb.
    Max special attack and Attack (pretty much) are used to hit as hard as possible while 12 Speed EVs outspeed Pokemon with 90 base speed (which there are a lot of in ubers) who have 4 Speed EVs but maybe I should run a bit more just for the heck of it but this seems to work well.

    [​IMG]
    Forretress @ Leftovers

    Trait: Sturdy

    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)

    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Volt Switch

    Specially defensive is to take Draco Meteors and such, and it already has pretty solid physical defense.
    Spikes helps the teammates do more damage and get some more KOs unless they get spun away.
    Rapid Spin is pretty crucial for Ho-Oh, and getting hazards out of there is just nice in general.
    Stealth Rock gives a bit of damage on the opponents switches as well and helps do damage in general.
    Volt Switch can be used to scout, and it also gives an opponent a free switch which I often find useful.

    [​IMG]
    Zekrom @ Choice Scarf

    Trait: Teravolt

    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)

    - Bolt Strike
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw
    - Volt Switch

    Bolt Strike is STAB, and deals with Kyogre and Lugia+Ho-Oh nicely.
    It's also backed up by an impressive 438 attack stat.
    Outrage hits many dragons in Uber super effectively, and is STAB as well.
    Dragon Claw is nice to use when I see the opponent has a Groudon lurking in the team using team preview and or Steel types or when locking Zekrom into Outrage is just a stupid idea.
    Volt Switch is nice to use when Kyogre is threatened out and the opponent most likely will make the obvious switch into Ferrothorn and is scouting as well+STAB but isn't really meant to do a lot of damage.
    It also works well on a Scarfer which Zekrom is and it uses the Scarf to revenge nicely.

    [​IMG]
    Arceus-Grass @ Meadow Plate

    Trait: Multitype

    EVs: 252 HP / 132 SpD / 124 Spe

    Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)

    - Recover
    - Grass Knot
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder Wave

    Pretty safe Kyogre switch in and a good special tank/wall.
    Recover is again very nice reliable recovery and gives Arceus Grass more time on the battlefield and allows it to take more hits.
    Grass Knot pretty much OHKOes Groudon and Kyogre depending on the set, or does a lot of damage.
    Since most Pokemon in Uber are heavy, it's usually superior to Judgment.
    Ice Beam hits dragons for nice damage and it helps that some of them are x4 weak to it.
    Thunder Wave is used to spread paralysis, which the team abuses nicely.
    It helps Groudon and Ho-Oh a lot because Groudon can keep firiing off scary Earthquakes and Ho-Oh to outspeed things and maybe even get a free sub by spamming sub and hope for parahax, and recover when nessecary.
    Calm over Timid is used because I don't find outspeeding Garchomp important, and the extra bulk is very helpful.
    Because I'm not running Timid, I use 124 Spe EVs to outspeed max Spe 90s like Kyogre with max speed and a boosting nature.


    As for threats, I've found Extremekiller Arceus a problem to the team if that thing comes in at the right time and start setting up.
    Also Blaziken is sometimes annoying but mainly Arceus.


    How can this team be improved, any options I should try out?
  2. Mismagius

    Mismagius

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    Should I add something else?
    Anyone?
  3. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Hey there Mismagius, here I am!

    As you said, Extreme Killer Arceus is very dangerous for you. It can easily set up on Forretress, and hit extremely hard as you struggle against it. A quick, solid fix would be just to change your Groudon to the Standard Support set.

    Groudon (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Groudon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Roar
    - Stone Edge


    Doing so gives you much more insurance against the physical titans of the Ubers metagame such as Rayquaza, Salamence, and the Extreme Killer. You could run Fire Punch over Roar to sneak a surprise-hit on Ferrothorn and Forretress. You could also use Rock Slide over Stone Edge if you don't want to risk a miss against Ho-Oh, but the difference in power is notable.

    With Stealth Rock on Groudon, it is no longer needed on Ferrothorn. You could put either Toxic or Toxic Spikes > Stealth Rock. Toxic allows you to poison the likes of Giratina-O, Lugia, Ho-Oh and Toxic Spikes poisons the grounded Pokemon, such as Kyogre.

    Grass Arceus does not work well in sun. The sun just makes its weakness to Fire worse by boosting these moves. However by removing it you become much weaker to Kyogre, so I recommend Lustrous Orb Palkia instead.

    Palkia (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Spacial Rend
    - Thunder
    - Fire Blast
    - Surf / Hydro Pump


    The choice between Surf and Hydro Pump is up to you, but be careful, as both will not do much in sun. In rain however, they hit extremely hard, thanks to the additional boost from rain added to the Lustrous Orb and STAB boosts. Earth Power is also an option there to hit Heatran which can be very annoying.

    Now the last thing may seem very minor, but it is not. I suggest you move 4 Speed EVs to Attack from Giratina-O's EV spread. Doing so will ensure the 2HKO on 4/0 Mewtwo with Shadow Sneak, giving you a safer way to deal with it.

    tl;dr (open)
    • Support Groudon > Choice Band Groudon
    • Toxic / Toxic Spikes > Stealth Rock on Forretress
    • Lustrous Orb Palkia > Grass Arceus
    • Changing Giratina-O's spread to 248 Atk / 252 SpA / 8 Spe


    That's it, good luck!
  4. Donkey

    Donkey

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    529
    Believe it or not, defensive Ho-Oh is a pretty good Extremekiller check. I'd suggest you try this set over your current set:

    Show Hide

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Sacred Fire
    - Brave Bird
    - Recover
    - Substitute


    You can run more or less speed depending on your preference, but this way you hit a bonus point in defense.

    I also agree with all of Furai's suggestions, except I'd add Pain Split on Forretress. That way, you can have something to constantly sponge Gira-A's burns and set up at the same time, and you can also prevent Ferrothorn from laying hazards.

    If you have any trouble with Smashpass, which it looks like you might, Lum Berry on Groudon would help. Bulky Arceus forms give most of your team trouble besides Ho-Oh, so make sure to watch out for Will-O-Wisp Arceus Rock. You could also replace Dragon Claw on Zekrom with HP Fire to hit Ferrothorn, or HP Ice to hit Gliscor if you want, but neither is necessary.

    GL with the team.
  5. Mismagius

    Mismagius

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    Thanks a lot for the rates, I really appreciate them! :D
    I'll try out the Groudon set, it seems good and probably is. Is it a good idea to use Dragon Tail though? I do like Roar because it guarantess phazing and Dragon Tail sometimes misses.
    I'm gonna try out all of the suggestions and see how it works, this seems awesome.
    Also, would it be wise to run both the physically defensive Groudon and Ho-Oh? I think it seems pretty cool but since I don't have the specially defensive Arceus anymore Idk what I should do, I might just find out by trying out the suggestions though.
    The Ho-Oh set seems interesting as well, and it already has good special defense so this might just work out great.
    Again thanks for the rates!
  6. EKproudCC

    EKproudCC

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    17
    is Grass Knot more powerful than Grass Judgement?
  7. The QWAZ

    The QWAZ

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    Messages:
    527
    Ummm, in general, yes as the uber metagame is very heavy
  8. Blim

    Blim
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    Messages:
    401
    Roar / Dragon Tail is pretty much personal preference. Some people like the damage dragon tail provides, other people don't like the inaccuracy and lower pp. Also roar has the advantage of phazing pass a sub. I personally prefer roar, but it's not that big of a deal which one you use.

    Your Ho-oh needs a better spread [You don't really need physically defensive ho-oh after furai's suggestions], because bewteen support groudon and toxic forretress, you should be handle sd arceus fine. Anyway, I suggest 204 hp [404 subs so chansey s toss doesn't break you're sub], max attack, and dump the rest in speed, so slow stuff like defensive groudon and standard gira-o don't out-speed you.

    I also suggest you test scarf terrakion over scarf zekrom, scark zek provides more opportunities for ferrothron and company to set up hazards. So I think terrakoin would fit better on this team [gives you more sd arceus coverage too, especially if you choose not to run toxic forretress ], but I could be wrong, at the least it's worth testing through.
  9. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    ^ no make Ho-Oh 405 HP atleast, to make 101 HP subs as well as being able to switch into SR 3 times
  10. Donkey

    Donkey

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    Oct 30, 2011
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    Not sure about the scarf terrakion replacement, that makes him pretty mewtwo weak imo. I think Zekrom works well, and while defensive Ho-Oh isn't absolutely necessary, I find it's nice to handle things like Rayquaza and Arceus since Groudon doesn't have recovery and can only phase once.
  11. Blim

    Blim
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    I see, thanks for pointing that out.

    Ironically, soon after I made that post, I was thinking, "damm that makes him really mewtwo weak" xD. Yeah, you're correct. I'll have to try out p.defensive ho-oh too, sounds like it has a decent niche.

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